Trouble with 15 yr old and bishop interview

[Palerider]

One other thing.....at some point after this talk with youth about law of chasity....need to encourage them to involve their parents.

[Palerider]

Prisonchap....not sure if I answered everything...if not feel free to ask me and I will answer them the best I can.

[prisonchaplain]

Palerider, assuming the OP is completely accurate, was the bishop simply clumsy in his handling, or did he cross a line, and operate outside of church guidelines?

[Suzie]

Shepard, I know you received a lot of feedback here and I hope you kindly allow me to give you my little two cents on this matter.

 

I do understand your concern about the Bishop and the kind of questions he asked during that interview but I would like to deal with your daughter's manipulation techniques and of course, I can only write from a very limited understanding.

 

I know everyone feels the need for you to "fix" your daughter, but the truth is that your daughter isn't broken. She is manipulating you emotionally and I have the impression she has been doing that for a very long time but let's make something very clear: No one can manipulate you without your permision.

 

What is needed? Well, a little instrospection where you will have to face and deal with your own feelings of insecurity, inadequency, guilt, feeling intimidated, bullied etc because in the end, if you do not deal with those feelings FIRST and realize who you are and where you are standing and what do you want to do from here, your daughter's manipulation techniques will continue working on you because she will NOT stop, I repeat, she will NOT stop until YOU decide to change some things and pronto. Children who manipulate know their parents more than the parents know them, it makes them feel powerful and that feeling gives them a quick ego boost.

 

Having said that, teenagers also need to be heard and less preached and if they express a particular point of view, they strongly need someone to believe them and validate their feelings (not necessarily agree with them) and if it doesn't happen around those who he/she trusts, they will do whatever is necessary to prove their point. It might not an appropiate course of action (but I believe we should also understand that their pre-frontal cortex isn't fully developed as yet and that's the part of the brain that deals with decision making and judgement between other things).

 

No matter what is the cause, you need to hold your teenager accountable and that's the number one reason she is manipulating everyone around her and that's why she doesn't seem to understand boundaries and is unrepentant.

 

You need to become more proficient than her in your ability to communicate, you need to ensure that when you are talking with her, YOU are the one in control of the conversation and no matter how much she tries to deviate the convo to fullfil her own agenda, you always need to bring it back to the negative impact her behavior is having to those around her.

 

All this, takes an enormous ammount of emotional strenght and you will have to learn a few techniques along the way therefore I suggest before even starting dealing with your daughter's issues, that you can seek professional help for yourself first, your wife and your entire family.

 

All the best.

[Palerider]

Palerider, assuming the OP is completely accurate, was the bishop simply clumsy in his handling, or did he cross a line, and operate outside of church guidelines?

In my opinion ......yes I think he was. Way too many questions. Not sure what he was looking for by continuosly asking for more details. Everyone is caught up in the questions he was supposedly asking.....I was more concerned about the experimenting of drugs.

[Shepard]

Not working yet. In a word- overcompliance.

 

Killing my wife and the rest of the family more than her. Doesn’t appear to be sustainable. Two hours of family scripture study every day. She seems to delight in it. I can’t do my church calling and function at work.

 

Coaches, other parents asked -let her participate. Maybe I’m wrong but holding my position for now. Girls camp; dd pretty wound up right now, probably would act up, ruin it for others. Prevent more stunts.

 

Still sees LDS girls/boys daily at seminary and friends at school. Has loyal friends who help her stay connected. Taking away her phone, etc. did not shut down communication, only made it more difficult.

 

Some consequences not intended as punishments- just laying down the law. But I see instigating them together- causes confusion. Live and learn.

 

Cloths are a problem. Gave the confiscated ones to best friends. They share cloths all the time, back and forth, probably expects to get them back pretty soon. She is slightly smaller than most friends. Barely modest on a smaller skinny girl - not modest on another girl one or two sizes larger/ taller. Her friends wearing her cloths in support -protest -pushing over boundaries.

 

 LDS friends donated trek dresses. Dressing as a pioneer without any make-up etc., telling friends at school- Mormon parents have gone crazy.

 

Sold red car at a loss.  Dug up back yard, that cost some to buy the tiller. Seeds cost even more. Water bill also going up. Cheaper to buy the vegetables at the store!  I have to remember-raising children not vegetables.

 

I think she exaggerates. That her stunt is not visible on google- I am glad to hear, maybe not that many girls are aware /sustaining her.

 

Suzie: She does have far better communication skills than I do. I can’t prevail verbally with her.  I’m not so much into feeling inadequate or insecure or bullied by her as just calmly ignoring her when she acts up a little, then verbally jumping on her when it gets worse- which has been rare until now. She is a lot of trouble but I could handle her most of the time before this.

 

I don’t think the bishop is a pedophile but more along the lines of curious/clumsy/old-school. I am convinced that bishops need more than a door cracked when interviewing youth- for their own protection. A cracked door would have done no good in this case. If I had it over: convince all parents in the ward to insist on adult female chaperones present during interviews. Also backed my dd up when she didn’t want the interviews and discussed it later.

 

Therapy: Which? LDS or non-LDS? Dd says LDS therapist same as another bishop- won’t cooperate.

 

But non-LDS therapist probably like school psychologist- probably will side with her to some degree. Wife and I both not comfortable with airing family laundry to non-LDS therapist.

[prisonchaplain]

Therapy may or may not be needed.  Perhaps adjusting the goals would be enough.  First, I'd suggest carrying out your proscribed consequences--with the "lightest" interpretation possible.  In other words, follow through with them so that it is clear that you meant what you said.  On the other hand, whenever a consequence can be made easier (especially for the rest of the family), go with that interpretation.  Why?  At this point, dd needs to know that you are the parent, and you will follow through with your promises.  That gives her consistency and stability.

 

BUT THEN, what to do with the strong-willed teen?  Perhaps it is time to begin the transition from director to coach?  She is smart, but inexperienced.  Ask her more questions, give her options, seek out her thoughts.  You still control the environment and over-all game plan, but let her have increasing say about the details.

 

Yours is a faith tradition that holds "agency" (what we call free will) in high regard.  It is obviously time for dd to start owning her own faith.  If that means not going to temple, it may be best for her not to do so for now.  If that means sometimes ask pointed, seemingly disrespectful questions, then help her explore, while guiding her towards more polite and intelligent approaches to her questions.

 

And console yourself.  In about 10 years, she'll wake up, look in the mirror, and ask, "How come dad was so smart about things????"  (Usually after dd has her own dd/s)

[Guest]

I'm going to put this in bigger letters for more impact:

 

Punishment without Teaching is like Going Hungry without Fasting.

[Wingnut]

 LDS friends donated trek dresses. Dressing as a pioneer without any make-up etc., telling friends at school- Mormon parents have gone crazy. 

 

Take care that you don't give the Church a bad name, please.

[Suzie]

Therapy: Which? LDS or non-LDS? Dd says LDS therapist same as another bishop- won’t cooperate.

 

But non-LDS therapist probably like school psychologist- probably will side with her to some degree. Wife and I both not comfortable with airing family laundry to non-LDS therapist.

 

In this particular situation, non-LDS.

 

Going to a psychologist is about trying to resolve these issues and finding the root of the problem, wherever it comes from. A psychologist doesn't become one overnight. A real professional spends more than 10 years in a higher education setting so no need to worry about whether or not he/she will side with her to some degree or not. This isn't about "I am right Vs. She is wrong". Your daughter and your whole family need help.

[Quin]

Did you know that 12 states require all parties to consent to the recording of a conversion? Without such consent such a recording breaks the law an opens up the person to legal action

I HATE this law.

Hate, hate, hate, despise, loathe, abhor.

Kids films mom being beaten up by dad.

Consent state? Dad walks free, kid gets in legal trouble.

Ditto for recording your rapist, mugger, murderer, etc.

It's a STUPID, reactionary law that only protects evil.

Because laws are already on the books (expectation of privacy, libel, etc.) that protect us from being recorded without our permission & those recordings being disseminated.

Q

[yjacket]

Consistency in parenting is built on the little things.  Too many times, parents (myself included) will pick battles over the little things of life, lay down the discipline and then not back it up.  The child learns that discipline is hit or miss, sometimes it is consistent, sometimes not and consequently will continually push the boundaries trying to find where is the line in the sand.  

 

Eventually, something big happens and the hammer drops, unfortunately the child has learned that the discipline will be hit or miss and maybe this time the parent sticks to their guns and maybe not.  Most likely, the parent realizes the discipline has not been effective and brings out the big guns . . . of course because consistency hasn't been a habit it is hit or miss whether that discipline sticks and then the process begins anew.

 

Remember, it is the child's responsibility to fix their problems, not yours.  They must own their problems. Parents are there to help them see the error of their ways :-).  If the discipline is too complex, too long, too drawn-out, too taxing on the family then it will be ineffective, because everyone else is owning the problem not the child.  And this is exactly what the child wants, seeing everyone else suffer just makes it better for them (ah well I may have xyz, but look at everyone else too, they are partaking in my discipline).  

 

She must own her problems and for a 15 year old the first step is getting through to her that sharing private conversations with the world is inappropriate.  And as an outsider, that is where I would start for discipline.  I would find something effective to get it through that private conversations should be kept private and if she feels those conversations cross a line, there are people she can talk to about it parents, stake president, etc. but not the world.  

 

How I would get that through, don't know but brainstorming I'd think about recording all of her conversations, or finding something that she is embarrassed about, record it and share it with her friends (even better if somehow her friends rag her about it) . . . now after this she would be ticked off, and she might be ticked off real good, but that could get the point through.  Maybe it should only be something done inside the family where her room is recorded and every evening you have the previous night's recording playing on the TV (great if you get her doing something like picking her nose . . . siblings would rag her about it).  Do that for a week, two weeks however long . . .she'll get the point.  She'll be so embarrassed that she'll eventually beg you to stop.  It's simple, doesn't inflict punishment on the family and puts all the ownership on her.  Then you sit down and have a nice chat about how it doesn't feel too nice to have your private conversations recorded and how must the bishop feel . . .maybe she should have talked to you about it.  Maybe even do this without her knowing . . .

 

The lying and making up stories . . .well that's another issue, figuring out someway to put the ownership on her to ensure she is telling the truth.

[The Folk Prophet]

How I would get that through, don't know but brainstorming I'd think about recording all of her conversations, or finding something that she is embarrassed about, record it and share it with her friends (even better if somehow her friends rag her about it) . . . now after this she would be ticked off, and she might be ticked off real good, but that could get the point through.  

 

Um. That would be like teaching someone not to hit by punching them in the face for hitting someone. Probably not a good idea. :)

[applepansy]

Not working yet. In a word- overcompliance.

 

Killing my wife and the rest of the family more than her. Doesn’t appear to be sustainable. Two hours of family scripture study every day. She seems to delight in it. I can’t do my church calling and function at work.

 

Coaches, other parents asked -let her participate. Maybe I’m wrong but holding my position for now. Girls camp; dd pretty wound up right now, probably would act up, ruin it for others. Prevent more stunts.

 

Still sees LDS girls/boys daily at seminary and friends at school. Has loyal friends who help her stay connected. Taking away her phone, etc. did not shut down communication, only made it more difficult.

 

Some consequences not intended as punishments- just laying down the law. But I see instigating them together- causes confusion. Live and learn.

 

Cloths are a problem. Gave the confiscated ones to best friends. They share cloths all the time, back and forth, probably expects to get them back pretty soon. She is slightly smaller than most friends. Barely modest on a smaller skinny girl - not modest on another girl one or two sizes larger/ taller. Her friends wearing her cloths in support -protest -pushing over boundaries.

 

 LDS friends donated trek dresses. Dressing as a pioneer without any make-up etc., telling friends at school- Mormon parents have gone crazy.

 

Sold red car at a loss.  Dug up back yard, that cost some to buy the tiller. Seeds cost even more. Water bill also going up. Cheaper to buy the vegetables at the store!  I have to remember-raising children not vegetables.

 

I think she exaggerates. That her stunt is not visible on google- I am glad to hear, maybe not that many girls are aware /sustaining her.

 

Suzie: She does have far better communication skills than I do. I can’t prevail verbally with her.  I’m not so much into feeling inadequate or insecure or bullied by her as just calmly ignoring her when she acts up a little, then verbally jumping on her when it gets worse- which has been rare until now. She is a lot of trouble but I could handle her most of the time before this.

 

I don’t think the bishop is a pedophile but more along the lines of curious/clumsy/old-school. I am convinced that bishops need more than a door cracked when interviewing youth- for their own protection. A cracked door would have done no good in this case. If I had it over: convince all parents in the ward to insist on adult female chaperones present during interviews. Also backed my dd up when she didn’t want the interviews and discussed it later.

 

Therapy: Which? LDS or non-LDS? Dd says LDS therapist same as another bishop- won’t cooperate.

 

But non-LDS therapist probably like school psychologist- probably will side with her to some degree. Wife and I both not comfortable with airing family laundry to non-LDS therapist.

There are female LDS therapists.  It sounds like DD is going to be contrary regardless of what you do.

 

Whatever you decide to do, don't argue with her.  And its definitely ok to let her see how hurt you are by her behavior and words.

[Shepard]

PrisonChaplan:

I agree with this idea of changing from being a director to a coach and giving her more room to make her own decisions within acceptable boundaries. The consequences are getting watered down gradually. School is out and that allows for some modification.

 

Anatess: I agree completely with your message in bigger letters. The actual application of it is hard. How to teach her? I can say: what you did is wrong and she replies: no, it was not. Is that teaching? If teaching is a two way action, then the teacher dispensing the principles without the student hearing or internalizing them is not teaching.That is what I am trying to do. But I can't force her to learn. Part of the problemn is that I partially agree with her. I can see now that I do not want her having private interviews with the bishop. I don't agree with her responsen or I wouldnot be on this site. But I can't answer her observation that what she did accomplished what she intended it to do for her and for her friends. Like she said, I have already won.

 

Wingnut: "take care that you don't give the church a bad name, please"

I find this comment odd. First, that horse is already out of the barn. Her non-LDS friends already laughed at a digital recording of a LDS bishop extracting a contrived description of immoral acts from a young girl. In the end I feel like the good name of the strong and vibrant LDS church with 15 million members is not going to be determined by the acts of one belligerent teenage girl and her silly friends. I am more concerned about her at this point than in the social reputation of the LDS church in one obscure school with a handful of LDS students. Would I trade her well-being or her membership in the LDS church for 10 baptisms of her friends? Can't say that I would, and I don't see any of those baptisms actually happening or not happening because of the way I handle the current problems.

 

Suzie: We are researching for a non-LDS woman family therapist. I think you are right.

Apple Pansy: If the non-LDS therapist doesn't work out we may come back to the LDS option. At least we tried her way.

 

Quinn:

One of my attorney friends told me that my state does not require permission for both parties to be recorded. I don't think they will prosecute my daughter for this and I don't think the police are going to do much to the bishop. Nothing so far anyway. I do sympathize with your point. If my daughter recorded a man assaulting her or molesting her to the point of serious damage such as hospitalization for injuries or preganancy or death and that was thrown out of court because it was recorded. Well, the blood of men like Porter Rockwell flows in my veins and I don't know what I might do. As you know part of the reason for court trials is to punish the criminals but part of it is to create a reason for the families of the victims to not take revenge upon the accused and their families. When the system breaks down, it is only a a matter of time before the law of the jungle comes back into effect. Even though I would like to think I would prevail, I bet that statistics would show that the criminals win and the avengers of justice often lose in the jungle. Why we should support the rule of law.

 

YJacket:

I agree that it is the responsibility of the youth to solve their problems.From my dd's perspective she has solved the problem. She sees it as putting responsibility for the bishop's problem back on him. I am pretty certain that if I began to compromise her privacy and recorded her bedroom activities and used them to embarass her, that she would respond by recording the private activities between my wife and I and broadcast that to her sibling and friends.  Sometimes we have heated disagreements, usually behind closed doors away from the  children and there are the other unspoken activities. My hunch is that I would not win that battle.But your suggestion does help me figure out what I think is best to do and is therby valuable.

 

I am grateful to all of you for your help. I think without htis site it would take weeks to get similar advice from friends and ward members and probably not as thoughtful and useful.

[Guest]

Anatess: I agree completely with your message in bigger letters. The actual application of it is hard. How to teach her? I can say: what you did is wrong and she replies: no, it was not. Is that teaching? If teaching is a two way action, then the teacher dispensing the principles without the student hearing or internalizing them is not teaching.That is what I am trying to do. But I can't force her to learn. Part of the problemn is that I partially agree with her. I can see now that I do not want her having private interviews with the bishop. I don't agree with her responsen or I wouldnot be on this site. But I can't answer her observation that what she did accomplished what she intended it to do for her and for her friends. Like she said, I have already won.

Shepard, you can't teach a kid algebra unless he's mastered addition and subtraction.... So, in an ideal situation, a teen already knows right versus wrong before she turns 15. She would know to discern right versus wrong at 8 according to gospel principles and family tradition. So that the teaching has been happening since she was born and merely reinforced to apply to specific age-related complex situations as the child matures. So that, at 15, parents don't need to tell her what is right and what is wrong. She already knows it. The teaching then is relating a complex situation to gospel principles so she can decide for herself that it is right/wrong.

Teaching is ineffective unless applied holistically. Every waking moment in a child's life is a learning opportunity so that a child is learning even when parents are not consciously teaching. Therefore, a child learns from what she sees the parents are doing/feeling more than what they're saying.

So, in my family, I teach by family identity. Now that my kids are 10 and 12, a lot of my admonitions start with, "this is not who we are". So, a few weeks ago, my kid hid his report card because he got a D. I asked him where it was and he lied saying his teacher didn't give it to him yet. When I found out, I got mad - not because he got a D but because he lied to me... This is how the conversation went -

Me: "In what planet is the Anatess Family a bunch of liars?"

Mini-me: "Venus"

Me: "Nope. You know we're not liars. Not even in Venus. Why did you think lying is good?"

Mini-Me: "Well, my brother lied to Jane and he didn't get in trouble."

Me: "We are talking about you, not your brother."

Mini-Me: "If I don't lie, I get in trouble, so I lied instead so I won't get in trouble. So it's a white lie."

Me: "Trying to save your butt from the consequences of your bad actions is not worthy of a white lie."

Mini-Me: "But..."

Me: "You had the chance to explain yourself. The court is closed. You know what the punishment is. Go to your room and pray to God for forgiveness."

- This works for my son because he already knows lying is a sin. I don't have to argue that. This also works because we talk a lot. We are constantly talking about everything and anything so I can sit him down and talk to him and he'll talk to me. And lastly, the punishment is not something arbitrary. They already know what the punishment is in our house.

I have a temper problem. I had to make these things formulaic so it doesn't trigger my temper. So I say, "In what planet..." so I can keep myself calm. And ever since they were born, I always tell them to pray to God for forgiveness after I reprimand them. It used to be I'd pray with them. It's gotten to be a habit now so they just go pray on their own.

We've had big things happen (ok, not half as big as yours), and this method has seen us through it. It really helps that we talk a lot in our family because we end up talking about the big things and what-if scenarios before they happen... Especially about my temper problem. They've seen me throw plates at their dad... They know it's wrong, they know I know it's wrong. They have not thrown a plate because mommy threw a plate... Not yet, at least. It's a family identity... The Anatess Family has a problem we're fighting.

So in your case, that issue would have been talked about long time go. My kids talk to me when they get upset over their video games - they'd talk to me if they feel wierded out by the bishop. It wouldn't get to that point without me having whiffed that it is leading to it. But my kid is 12... Who knows what crazy thing he'll get into by 15. His identity is forged by Family and now his Priesthood. So that if he ever does something like that, I would take it as reflection of the family and we will have to figure out (my kid would have to figure it out with us) where the family failed and try to correct it.

Every family is different, though. Everyone has their own identity and ways they deal with things.

[Shepard]

Update:

 

It was becoming obvious that major modifications to the consequences were in order. Dd is doing everything required but it is too much for everyone.  I was going to discuss this with the family tonight while broiling some steaks on the deck. Last night, dd gave me the following 2 lists:

 

Concessions- me

1. Visit old people in rest home for 4 hrs on Sundays. Play piano, read to them, talk with them, etc.
2. Join local girl scout troop with some friends.
3.  Read the book together suggested by non-LDS therapist on family relations for 20 min a day.
4.  Fun family activities chosen by us kids each week.
5.  Do other volunteer work for 10 hrs a week.
6.  Donate blood once a month (she hates needles).
7.  Donate my beautiful hair to locks of love, (she loves her hair).
8. Exercise, gardening, painting, piano, more chores, not fun but will do them all.
9. Be the perfect teenage daughter ever.

Concessions- parents

1. No more church meetings for me on Sunday.
2. No more YW/YM activities for me.
3. No more family scripture study.
4. No more boring lessons for FHE.
5. No more church magazines or pamphlets for me.
6. No more talking about me on websites like LDS.net.

 

This is a dark day I never thought I would face, when your child leaves the church.

 

Dd said that she finds most of the discussions here, not just the one about her to be “nauseating.” If this is how Mormons think then she is through with it. I don’t agree with her. It is not like she has never been exposed to Mormons before. She has been saturated with people who are very much like all of you who post here. But her contempt appears to have generalized from the bishop to the rest of the church.

 

Now what?

[pam]

Update:

 

It was becoming obvious that major modifications to the consequences were in order. Dd is doing everything required but it is too much for everyone.  I was going to discuss this with the family tonight while broiling some steaks on the deck. Last night, dd gave me the following 2 lists:

 

Concessions- me

1. Visit old people in rest home for 4 hrs on Sundays. Play piano, read to them, talk with them, etc.
2. Join local girl scout troop with some friends.
3.  Read the book together suggested by non-LDS therapist on family relations for 20 min a day.
4.  Fun family activities chosen by us kids each week.
5.  Do other volunteer work for 10 hrs a week.
6.  Donate blood once a month (she hates needles).
7.  Donate my beautiful hair to locks of love, (she loves her hair).
8. Exercise, gardening, painting, piano, more chores, not fun but will do them all.
9. Be the perfect teenage daughter ever.

Concessions- parents

1. No more church meetings for me on Sunday.
2. No more YW/YM activities for me.
3. No more family scripture study.
4. No more boring lessons for FHE.
5. No more church magazines or pamphlets for me.
6. No more talking about me on websites like LDS.net.

 

This is a dark day I never thought I would face, when your child leaves the church.

 

Dd said that she finds most of the discussions here, not just the one about her to be “nauseating.” If this is how Mormons think then she is through with it. I don’t agree with her. It is not like she has never been exposed to Mormons before. She has been saturated with people who are very much like all of you who post here. But her contempt appears to have generalized from the bishop to the rest of the church.

 

Now what?

 

Are those concessions for parents something she came up with?

 

Being the perfect daughter ever don't jive with the fact that she won't honor the gospel teachings you are trying to instill in your home and demanding those things that she came up with.

[Wingnut]

She can't donate blood through Red Cross until she's 17 years old.

 

If it were up to me, I might be willing to make some of the parental concessions, because at this point I can see how pushing back will only make things worse.  However, if family scripture study and FHE were already part of the family routine, she would not be permitted to be excused from those -- they are family things, not church things.  And if FHE is "boring," she'd be welcome to plan the lesson herself.

[Lakumi]

I think, if you force religion on her she will resent it later in life. If you make her go now it may seem fine and what not to you but when she moves away she'd drop it like a stone.

At 15 a lot of kids (myself included) are really beginning to think and question what we believe, I picked up some weird things (weird clothing styles, political views, all sorts), but my parents didn't fight it, they knew it wouldn't last and told me it wouldn't last and it didn't last.

I mean it wasn't religion (I wasn't raised religious) but the idea is still the same.

[applepansy]

She doesn't get to decide parental concessions until she's a parent.

 

Just sayin'

 

Hang in there.  Keep her name on the prayer roll at a temple.  Will she allow you to give her a blessing?

 

#8 Be the perfect daughter means she has to be obedient.  If family prayer, scripture study, etc. are what the family is doing then she needs to be obedient and do it with a good attitude.  There will be plenty of time after she's 18 to not be active in the church.  However, she still has her agency and you cannot force her to believe.  You cannot force her to have faith.  She gets to decide those things for herself.  

 

Personally, I wouldn't force church attendance and participation.  She's made it very clear she can't be trusted when she doesn't agree with an expectation and other adults are in jeopardy.  I would continue to insist on her participation in family activities such as scripture study, prayer, family home evening, etc.  Again. . . . she doesn't get to decide the parental concessions.

 

What she can decide is to be a good girl and do whatever is necessary to gain your trust again.  She might not like the Bishop but she owes him an apology.  That would be one of my first things on her "to do" list.

[yjacket]

My 2 cents.  I completely agree with "she doesn't get to decide parental concessions until she's a parent."

 

She wants the freedom to be an adult without the responsibility associated with it.  It's a tough row.

 

Family scripture and FHE are family things and I'd probably say that participation is not required but your physical body is required.  If she doesn't like FHE, she is more than welcome to plan one a month.

 

Church magazines and pamphlets, I'm not sure how that works, but I'd work those into family scripture and FHE.

 

No more talking about on websites . . . hmm I'd probably mention that it doesn't feel very nice to be talked about behind your back.  (Actually that might have served as my example about video-taping).  It's makes one feel very upset to have someone spreading information about you without your permission . . . how do you think the Bishop feels?  

 

She apologies to the Bishop and not just apologies, she needs to do something nice for the guy, bake cookies, babysit, something. And then consider dropping it on lds.net.  However, I would also let her know that I'm trying to be a better parent and that sometimes websites are helpful, so I'd do the best to keep information confidential but that I might go to online resources for parenting help.

 

I would probably say, fine going to church is your decision . . . however since you have made the decision to not go to church with the family there are additional things you will do while everyone is relaxing and enjoying the Spirit.  And during the time while you are at church, she works, it's not a goof-off I can be by myself at home time, it means she will have extra special chores to do during that time-frame and only that time-frame.  And I would make her work and it would be hard and that when time for church comes, I wouldn't say a word about it.  I'd come home and if she hasn't done it then I would remind her of #8 and I would enact some other consequence for not being obedient to the agreement.

 

I would do the same thing for YM/YW activies.

 

 

I would also make it explicit to her because of her actions, that I have lost trust in her.  Trust, once broken is extremely hard to earn back, sometimes taking years.

 

"Dd is doing everything required but it is too much for everyone."

 

 Like I've said earlier, she is the one who must own her problem, take responsibility for it and fix it.  Punishing yourself or the family for her mistakes just allows her sidestep things.  

 

However, since she did come to you about this you are making progress, so in many ways while her list might upset you, simply the fact that she came to you with a modified list means that you are getting through to her (in some way).

[Just_A_Guy]

No more talking about me on websites like LDS.net.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that she doesn't understand the irony of that one.

[Wingnut]

I would probably say, fine going to church is your decision . . . however since you have made the decision to not go to church with the family there are additional things you will do while everyone is relaxing and enjoying the Spirit.  And during the time while you are at church, she works, it's not a goof-off I can be by myself at home time, it means she will have extra special chores to do during that time-frame and only that time-frame.  And I would make her work and it would be hard and that when time for church comes, I wouldn't say a word about it.  I'd come home and if she hasn't done it then I would remind her of #8 and I would enact some other consequence for not being obedient to the agreement.

 

I would do the same thing for YM/YW activies.

 

I would agree with the first part of this -- great idea.  The second part I'd be willing to let slide where she's committed to join a Girl Scout troop.  Assuming she actually does that with gusto, it will easily serve as a wholesome, enriching, and even uplifting (albeit not spiritual) alternative to Mutual activities.

[prisonchaplain]

What if this whole scenario is true, but it's the daughter that's posting?  Just a thought.

 

If there is a therapist involved now, it might be best to work these details out in her presence...or at least get her input as to how to approach tapering of the initial consequences towards something mutually productive.

 

I would not compromise on church attendance--at least not the basic Sunday services.  Also, I understand that FHE is both spiritual and family time, and that there is flexibliity.  Let the troubled teen offer some suggestions, or plan one out.  I would think there should be at least a short devotion (i.e. 5-minute scripture verse + simple application).  She does not have to believe in God, but out of respect for the family, she should join in these basics--if only as a student of religion.

 

Beyond that, God guide you!