Knitting/Crafting in Church?

[Palerider]

I wish I was one of those people who was good at drawing. Would love to sketch those while they are talking and make notes.

[Iggy]

Knitters/crocheters: From what has been written, I gather that you don't find your knitting at all distracting from listening to a speaker and even participating. Is this correct? If so, can you explain this? I'm trying to think of an activity I could do that requires coordination and purpose, such as counting stitches, yet requires absolutely no attention paid to it, so that I can do it and still be free to think about whatever else I want or converse without restriction. I can't think of anything. Is knitting really so different? Can you explain it in terms I can understand?

Embroidery - you embroider one color at a time and it is basically *brain-dead* work. Once you are skilled at the multitude of stitches, there is no concentration at all. 

 

Knitting & Crocheting- My Grandmother, Father never looked at their work as they were knitting and crocheting and their work was perfect and beautiful. My blind Great Grandmother also knit and crotchet'd beautiful items. All GrtGama needed was someone to put the braille labels on the balls of yarn for her. My absolute favorite afghan she made was the random colored one. She took all of the small rolls of yarn, removed the labels and crotchet'd away. 

 

My point is, a person skilled in needle craft (knitting, crocheting, cross stitch, embroidery) does it by rote and can easily concentrate on the speakers. Just like a driver of a car can drive, in heavy traffic and still concentrate on a conference talk playing through the car's speakers. 

 

The young Autistic boys are too young to be given knitting needles or embroidery/cross stitch needles, but could probably be trusted with crotchet hooks. They do fantastic with crayons, especially with papers with the alphabet printed on them. The hollow letters that they can color in. As for being a distraction, their family sits in the very front row and the boys sprawl our on the floor in front of them. No one can really see them unless you are sitting in the front rows of the side aisles.

 

As for the young women who doodle - they talk to each other doing the entire sacrament - and they hold the doodles up like one does with the hymnal, not keep it on their laps. The young woman who crotchets - after 4 months, she looks up at the speakers nearly the entire time. The elderly sister never looks at her work as she crotchets. 

 

I substituted for the Youth SS class when the young girl was 10 - she doodled, fidgeted and moved from sitting on the chair to sitting on the floor constantly. THAT was a distraction and if you put her in the back row, it hurt her feelings and she cried. 

 

Once she learned how to crotchet, she sat still. At first she only concentrated on the crocheting. After a few months, she was adept at it and PAID ATTENTION to the lesson and to sacrament meeting goings on up at the pulpit. 

 

My husband recently substituted the same class - she is now 12, crotchets like a pro, carries not only her scripture bag, but also a covered basket with her crocheting items in it. She sits in the front row first seat. She participates willing in class and it is obvious that she is listening AND learning. 

 

Because of her drastic change in church, her mother went to her school and requested that she be allowed to crotchet during her classes. They agreed as long as she sits in the back row. She is fine with that. Her grades went from D's & F's to A's & B's.  

 

I am from the era where crocheting, knitting, cross stitch and embroidery were NEVER considered Crafting. It was considered homemaking. The first two were to put clothes on our backs, the second two were to embellish the home made clothes that covered our bodies and protected us from the weather.

 

When a piece of embellished garment wore out and was destined to become a rag, the buttons, zippers, hooks were removed and saved. The needle point was cut off, trimmed and appliqued onto another piece of newly made garment. This work was always done at home, never anywhere else. 

 

I am not a knitter/crocheter - it pains my hands and wrists too much. But when I was younger and Grandma tried to teach me, the only time the stitches were counted was when you put them on when first starting the item. In knitting slippers, you *dropped* stitches when finishing it off in making the toe 'box'. After the first slipper, the rest were 'no brainers' - in other words, you no longer needed to concentrate and it was easy to knit and listen to speakers. 

 

As for embroidery - even when I am doing a new stitch, I still can listen and sew at the same time AND comprehend what is being said. I also have my different colors of thread on needles ready for me to switch.  I don't do it at church because I need stronger light than the chapel and the RS room offer. I do it at home while watching TV, my monitor at my desk while view the conference talks. I also do hand sewing. 

 

Needle craft is a calming activity. It is also hard to detect unless you sit next to the person. Thus it is not distracting to the congregation or to those sitting up at the podium or those talking from the podium. 

 

Oddly enough I can chew gum, walk and carry on an intelligent conversation all at the same time.

 

If the needle craft distracts you, sit a few pews behind the person. 

[Iggy]

 It seems as if there's an attitude of, "What a waste to sit here for an hour just listening to someone without actually DOING something useful. If only I had brought my knitting..." But the idea here is that the discourse itself is not important enough, or at least that there's no good reason not to knit while you're only going to be sitting listening to someone anyway.

 

If the Lord himself were speaking, would it be acceptable to knit while listening? If not, how is knitting at Church fundamentally different? Again, I'm not trying to be insulting or pick a fight. I'm trying to get a good handle on this issue. My questions are sincere.

It is not done with that attitude - actually doing so increases ones capacity to actually hear and comprehend the spoken word. 

 

If my eyesight were better, I would be doing needle craft in church every Sunday. Vort do you go to your meetinghouse to listen and see General Conference? Or do you sit at home in your comfies and watch it on TV or via the internet? If the latter, do you consider it disrespectful of the Lord when you sit there in your comfies, munching on breakfast/lunch or snacks?

 

I don't go to my meetinghouse because home is more comfortable and the online streaming is never interrupted like it is at church. 

 

We watch it online on our large screen, sitting in our jammies while I have my embroidery in my lap, my natural bright light shining on my work and the cat snugged up against my hip. Husband sits in his recliner with the other cat nestled against the back of his neck like a warming, purring pillow. Is this considered disrespectful of the Lord speaking to us. Because in my book, all the talks given are the words spoken from the Lord. Especially when given by the speakers at conference (General, Stake & Ward/Branch), as well as from those who speak each Sunday. 

 

I understand what you meant Vort. If the Lord was here in person, face to face with us, speaking from the pulpit or from a mountain top - yes I would still embroider if the light was good enough. And I would not be upset if others were knitting or crocheting. 

 

I would be upset if crafters brought their scrap booking, model making, wood working, blogging to church to occupy them. THAT requires their total concentration, more room than just a seat and often it can smell.

[Iggy]

I knit lace - the most demanding of patterns - and once a pattern is practiced it does not require any concentration. The mind is free to contemplate the mysteries of the world. Hence, I knit. 

When I was in my early thirties I knew an elderly woman who tatted. She offered to teach me, but I considered it the same as crocheting and declined. My Grandma had made learning crocheting difficult and painful (hitting me on the head with the crochet hook when I didn't get it perfect at the first go-round) when I was a teen. At age 50 I regretted that decision. But by then the woman had passed. Now at 62 there isn't anyone in my town who tats. I tried learning from you tube videos, but it just isn't good enough as In Person. Truly it is my loss. 

[Bini]

Some people just need that physiological repetitiveness and sensory to be able to focus. I would say most people probably don't need it but it's not an uncommon need for someone who is somewhere in the autism spectrum, for example, or with another disability. Again, going back to my sister, who is not disabled, she just does better with something in her hands - and to be honest - I think she'd still crochet even with Christ at her side talking with her. And to be further in my honesty, I don't think Christ would be the least bit offended.

[Palerider]

As I stated earlier....I would rather see needles flying about than looking at someone sound asleep.

[Guest]

I think this requires a big fat MYOB.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Iggy, I loved all your posts, and agree heartily.   :)

 

If the Lord himself were speaking, would it be acceptable to knit while listening? If not, how is knitting at Church fundamentally different? Again, I'm not trying to be insulting or pick a fight. I'm trying to get a good handle on this issue. My questions are sincere.

 

I find that if I knit during a movie or general conference (something longer than a Sacrament talk), later while working on that project elsewhere, I'm reminded of the movie or a conference talk.  So imagine if I were knitting while the Savior was talking!  Later I could savor His words again as if they were literally knitted into the project.  It sounds heavenly.  

Edited January 6, 2015 by LiterateParakeet

[Iggy]

I find that if I knit during a movie or general conference (something longer than a Sacrament talk), later while working on that project elsewhere, I'm reminded of the movie or a conference talk.  So imagine if I were knitting while the Savior was talking!  Later I could savor His words again as if they were literally knitted into the project.  It sounds heavenly.  

Thank you LP. 

 

Same thing happens to me doing embroidery or even when I am ironing. 

[PolarVortex]

This question is to everyone, not to anyone in particular who posted above.

 

So if you go to see the bishop about your crumbling marriage or about your child who is leaving the Church, you'd have no objection if he listened to you while he stuffed and sealed 250 envelopes with form-letter notices about some upcoming event?  

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

That's a horse of a different color Polarvortex. If I am having a casual conversation I wouldn't mind at all. Talking about something heart wrenching is different. I'm teaching at RS Enrichment this week..I get the whole meeting, I wouldn't mind if people knit or crochet.

[Guest]

I propose that MYOB in this particular case is more aligned with selfishness than Godliness.

 

This is a perfect example of learning to go beyond one's self and consider the impact of your actions on others - this applies to the crafters, the teachers, the listeners, and everybody else in the room.  One cannot just say - I can concentrate better when I'm crafting when the person next to you can concentrate better if you're not crafting... and vice versa.

Edited January 6, 2015 by anatess

[The Folk Prophet]

Apparently, per the ideas presented here, we ought to immediately allow such activities in the temple as well.

 

That's a horse of a different color Polarvortex. If I am having a casual conversation I wouldn't mind at all. Talking about something heart wrenching is different. I'm teaching at RS Enrichment this week..I get the whole meeting, I wouldn't mind if people knit or crochet.

 

I think this is the point. Church is being treated like a casual conversation. I suppose that's the real crux of the matter. How important is church? How much respect should it be shown?

[The Folk Prophet]

One cannot just say - I can concentrate better when I'm crafting when the person next to you can concentrate better if you're not crafting... and vice versa.

 

Here here!!

[Guest]

Apparently, per the ideas presented here, we ought to immediately allow such activities in the temple as well.

 

 

I think this is the point. Church is being treated like a casual conversation. I suppose that's the real crux of the matter. How important is church? How much respect should it be shown?

 

I agree with TFP.

 

But... I'm not elevating Sunday School to Temple standards... I'm only putting Sunday School with Educational Institution standards.  You know, like bringing your crochet to Math class.

Edited January 6, 2015 by anatess

[The Folk Prophet]

I'm not elevating Sunday School to Temple standards... 

 

Why not? Why shouldn't we show the same respect and reverence at church as we do at the temple?

 

There's a whole other thread complaining about irreverence at church. Hmm...maybe we're getting to the root of it all. Do we really have so little respect for church that we consider it nothing more than math class?

[Vort]

That's a horse of a different color Polarvortex. If I am having a casual conversation I wouldn't mind at all. Talking about something heart wrenching is different. I'm teaching at RS Enrichment this week..I get the whole meeting, I wouldn't mind if people knit or crochet.

But neither sacrament meeting nor Sunday School (or RS/Priesthood meeting) is a "casual conversation". These are places where, we are taught, we should be 100% present and participating.

 

The question is not whether you personally would mind. That's irrelevant. I probably wouldn't mind, either, but the question is one of propriety, not whether you would get offended.

[Vort]

I am trying to get a feeling for where I stand on this issue. It is coming down to "it depends", which is uncomfortably squishy.

 

On the one hand, I reject the facile reasoning that it's perfectly harmless and allows the knitter to concentrate better. The example of knitting in the temple or of the bishop mindlessly stuffing envelopes while listening to a tearful congregant illustrate this point perfectly.

 

On the other hand, I have a little bit of experience with those dealing with autism spectrum issues, as I suspect we all do. The idea that they might knit in class to help them pay attention sounds, I don't know, brilliant, I guess.

[Connie]

I propose that MYOB in this particular case is more aligned with selfishness than Godliness.

 

This is a perfect example of learning to go beyond one's self and consider the impact of your actions on others - this applies to the crafters, the teachers, the listeners, and everybody else in the room.  One cannot just say - I can concentrate better when I'm crafting when the person next to you can concentrate better if you're not crafting... and vice versa.

 

This is an extremely good point, and a big part of the concept of reverence--showing respect and consideration toward those around you.  But that also flows the other way, too--showing consideration and understanding to those who can focus better when their hands have something to do.  It's a hard balancing act sometimes.  Oh, the joys of "bearing each others burdens!" yet that is the covenant we have made.

[Bini]

If you find a way that better tunes you in, go for it. Like what's been said before, you can't control how others behave (anywhere) but you can manage your own actions. If knitting or crocheting (which is quiet by the way) makes focus better, then do it. If you're bothered by someone that is knitting, crocheting, breastfeeding, or otherwise playing Angry Birds - that is YOUR problem - figure out what YOU can do to better tune in.

[Vort]

If you find a way that better tunes you in, go for it. Like what's been said before, you can't control how others behave (anywhere) but you can manage your own actions. If knitting or crocheting (which is quiet by the way) makes focus better, then do it. If you're bothered by someone that is knitting, crocheting, breastfeeding, or otherwise playing Angry Birds - that is YOUR problem - figure out what YOU can do to better tune in.

This sounds good, but it really doesn't work on the larger level. Consider this: I focus better by juggling. I am so practiced at juggling that I can do it silently, and I pretty much never drop the balls. So I'm going to sit at the front of gospel doctrine class, or maybe at the back, and juggle all class long. And if anyone has a problem with that or finds it distracting, well, that's their problem, not mine.

 

No, I don't buy it. Juggling, as all manual activities, is inherently "interesting" and tends to draw the attention of others.

 

I am not arguing that you are wrong, just that I don't agree with the particular reasoning.

[Bini]

This sounds good, but it really doesn't work on the larger level. Consider this: I focus better by juggling. I am so practiced at juggling that I can do it silently, and I pretty much never drop the balls. So I'm going to sit at the front of gospel doctrine class, or maybe at the back, and juggle all class long. And if anyone has a problem with that or finds it distracting, well, that's their problem, not mine.

 

No, I don't buy it. Juggling, as all manual activities, is inherently "interesting" and tends to draw the attention of others.

 

I am not arguing that you are wrong, just that I don't agree with the particular reasoning.

My thoughts align with common sense more than polar extremes. Juggling versus knitting?

I'm coming from the corner of within what's reasonable. I wouldn't recommend a member unroll their yoga mat in the chapel aisle, and proceed with their yoga ritual, even if it does allow for better concentration and focus. Let's use common sense. But regardless, I can't control what someone else chooses to do, so I'd better figure out a way that I can focus in without worrying about what others are or aren't doing.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Sacrament talks, Sunday School and Relief Society lessons are not the same as a one on one conversato on where one is pouring out their heart. In my opinion it's apples and oranges.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Bini, I agree. Common sense is needed here not hyperbole.

[notquiteperfect]

Sounds like it's time for seating charts at church!
 

people with fussy kids - back right (by the door)

knitters - back left

bouncers/wigglers/hair twirlers - middle right

phone/game 'enthusiasts' - middle left

hard-of-hearing - front and center

everyone else - hope you're not teaching/speaking!

 

lol

:)