Knitting/Crafting in Church?

[yoyoteacher]

Wasn't sure quite how to classify this question, but figure this may be the easiest place to do so. What are your thoughts on women crafting (knitting/crocheting/cross stitch, etc) during church services?

 

On the one hand, I have no problem pulling out a project that I am working on while listening to a devotional or even general conference in the comfort of my home or the home of a friend. But on the flipside, if I were attending those things in person I'm not sure I would feel as comfortable.

 

I'll admit, when I was in my teens I would sometimes take projects with me, but now I'm not sure whether I should or not. My reasons fall somewhere between showing respect for the teachers/speakers and so forth (I have seen many a cell-phone-game-playing and in a way I feel that crafting could take your focus away from the spirit), and the appearance it puts off. I don't think I would ever work on something that would require heavy pattern work and referencing, but rather something simple that didn't require anything beyond the movement of hands.

 

So, what say you, oh wise folk of the lds.net forums? Is there anything wrong in working on a craft project while at church?

[Bini]

First. People need to mind more about their own business and less about others. Second, I personally see no issue with it, I think some individuals are able to focus more when they're engaging in a relaxing or comforting activity at the same time. I have a sister that crochets in church and is able to tune in and take everything in at the same time. It's harder for some people to sit, idle, and just listen to talks. Sometimes, something in your hands, helps...

[PolarVortex]

I have to be careful, because I've been replying to "new content" here and accidentally intruding on the Relief Society and Women's Issues forum.  But your post is in General Discussion, so it's full steam ahead...

 

I taught for a long time and do public speaking now and then.  My own opinion: when there is a live speaker present who targets his or her remarks to everyone in the room, then it's rude to do anything except give the speaker your full attention.

 

It's okay for parents to control their children, or for anyone to take notes on what the speaker is saying, but I personally feel that anything else is insulting.  I once had to give a speech at a naval college, and I was warned in advance that the students were required to attend and that they commonly read newspapers or magazines while the speaker was speaking.  Some did that while I spoke, and I found it very unnerving.  I became tongue-tied and all my jokes fell flat.

 

This is doubly or triply important in sacrament meetings, which can bring to the lectern people who are very fearful of public speaking.  As a brother or sister of the speaker, I think we ought to support all speakers by making friendly eye contact with the speaker, nodding to show our attention, and smiling often.  

 

Others may disagree.  I understand and respect Bini's comment above, but in this case I cordially disagree.     If you knit or crochet, it would be polite to do so discreetly.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

You know, I have seen this topic come up in other forums (not here, I don't think) and it always turns in to a flame war.  I don't mean that you shouldn't have posted it--not at all.  I just think it is interesting how passionate people get about this topic.  

 

As a teacher or speaker, I don't mind if people knit, crochet or draw.  I draw the line (no pun intended) at playing games on the phone or iPad though.  Some people find it easier to concentrate when they are doing something with their hands.  I think playing a game is much more distracting.  I have heard that in Montessori they have the kids do craft projects or color, the kids are able to concentrate on higher grade level books.

 

I have knitted or doodled in church for a few years now because it helps with the anxiety that church often gives me (long story).

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

 If you knit or crochet, it would be polite to do so discreetly.

 

This made me smile.  To me all knitting/crocheting is discrete (as long as you don't have needles that make a clicking sound...mine are bamboo and silent.)  So when I tried to imagine knitting that was not discrete...I envisioned someone waving their knitting in the air, LOL!

Along the same lines...if someone is drawing or doodling, how is that different than note taking...I mean to someone else watching.  

[PolarVortex]

This made me smile.  To me all knitting/crocheting is discrete (as long as you don't have needles that make a clicking sound...mine are bamboo and silent.)  So when I tried to imagine knitting that was not discrete...I envisioned someone waving their knitting in the air, LOL!

Along the same lines...if someone is drawing or doodling, how is that different than note taking...I mean to someone else watching.  

 

I see I am confusing crochet with embroidery.  My grandmother used to embroider these enormous tablecloths that sprawled about her like a monarch's robes, and she waved and hoisted those needles like an orchestra conductor.   

 

Maybe this is a Mormon thing.  I've belonged to several other denominations in my lifetime, and I have never seen anyone do craft work during a church service.  Ever.  

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

LOL, that would be very distracting.

 

I don't think it is a Mormon thing...I mean in the sense that in other discussions I have seen about this many Mormons are passionately against the idea.  But I understand you meant in the sense that other churches don't do this.  

[Palerider]

I have known a few people who are pretty good artists. They will often times draw a caricature of the person speaking and jot down a few notes of what they said. If someone is knitting or crocheting, no problems on my part. At least there awake and paying attention.

[Vort]

On a personal level, I doubt I would be particularly bothered if people crocheted or knitted while I was speaking. Even if I noticed, I probably would not take offense.

 

On the other hand, there does seem to be something dismissive about engaging in another activity while someone is speaking to you, even congregationally. I tend to agree with PolarVortex that people at Church really should be putting their attention on the speaker and not on their handiwork. (Disciplining children, of course, is another matter entirely.)

[Palerider]

I got to speak in the Singles Ward in our Stake. As I stood up I started speaking and I said.....I wish I had everyone's phone number so I could just text my talk to everyone. Lol!!!

[yjacket]

I think a lot of it speaks to our current culture.  Church is 3 hours a week, unless there is a really good excuse I see no reason why the vast majority of individuals cannot give their attention to the speaker, or teacher for at most 45 min.

 

Just a few weeks ago, someone was playing a game on their iPad in the middle of the lesson. Personally, I see it as a lack of proper fetching up, I won't do it; I think it shows disrespect.

 

If someone is going to be doing something that is potentially distracting to others, I'd suggest they ensure that they are as far back as possible.  It is one of the reasons why for the time being we sit in the back-I want to be as minimal distraction for others as possible when the little ones start acting up. Once they are bigger, we'll move up.

[notquiteperfect]

I agree with Bini that some people are able to do better when they have something in their hands.  With that said, aside from it looking dismissive to the teacher/speaker, I think it could be a distraction to others so, imo, those that choose to engage in this way might want to consider sitting in the back.

[yoyoteacher]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. It pretty well confirmed what I was thinking as far as showing respect goes.

As for the phones in singles wards...I remember my first week at the YSA branch I currently attend. The last time I came to church before that the smart phone was not truly a thing, so it was Not Okay in my mind to have my phone out.

Everyone in my branch uses the gospel library app to access Sunday school and RS materials. As a teacher for a living, it would distract me if my students had their technology out. But that's a difference in the times we live in, I guess? At least when I'm at church, I ignore everything on my phone except for church related applications.

[Jane_Doe]

I'm going to the spirit of the "law" (or respect) here: do what best enables you to pay attention and learn about the gospel.

 

Admittedly, I make up soduku in church.  It's a mindless thumb twiddling thing, and helps me get less distracted by all the craziness going on in the ward.  If you're going to read hymns on your phone, go for it.

 

On the flip side, I don't believe checking Facebook is conducive to gospel learning.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Jane_Doe

[PolarVortex]

On the flip side, I don't believe checking Facebook is conducive to gospel learning.

 

Agreed... reminds me of that joke about losers.  You know you're a total loser when you're Catholic, and in the middle of confession your priest interrupts you by asking, "What's a three-letter word for a European blackbird?"

[Iggy]

We have two families with multiple special needs children. The younger ones draw to help contain their energy and surprisingly their loud vocalizations are almost nil while they are drawing. 

 

The older children (young women) used to draw, but one of them preferred sharpie permanent markers and ended up permanently marking up the upholstery on the chairs. She was watching an older woman crotchet during Sacrament. It fascinated her, and she ended up being taught by this sister. She now sits and crotchets during all of the classes. 

 

She doesn't miss a thing being taught either. Her two older siblings are still in the doodling mode. It is pretty disturbing to sit behind a 26 and 22 yo and have them doing tic-tac-toe and draw chase, as they call it. Crocheting, cross stitch and embroidery are far less distracting. 

 

Their little sister can finish a scarf during the 3 hours at church. Her mother told us that the school has allowed her to crotchet there as long as her *written* school work gets done. All the scarves she has made, she sells at the Saturday Market. She saves her noisy crocheting for when she is home. She finger crotchets plastic *T-Shirt* bags into recycled shopping bags. 

 

What disturbs me are the ones who are texting. That is downright rude and inconsiderate. You want to gossip via your media devices, then go sit in your cars.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Iggy

[sxfritz]

As a knitter, I wish I could use that time for some project work and I do understand when I see other people doing crochet or knitting that they aren't really distracted. However, most people don't understand and it appears rude to them, so I leave my needles home. 

 

We had a woman who crocheted bandages for leprosy patients because machine woven/knit bandages are too tight; hand crochet leaves allows some breathing. Once people understood what she was doing, there was never a complaint.  :)

 

It is hard to believe how many responses you got, in such a short time, on your question. Good job posing the question.

[Guest]

I treat Sacrament Meeting as a Holy thing... craft-free.  Yes, it bothers me to see kids playing/drawing/coloring in Sacrament meeting - but that's more my problem really, not the crafters.  I grew up Catholic and you just don't do that in a Catholic Church.  Kids are expected to be reverent and pay attention in the Catholic Church... parents who are still training toddlers can go to the glass-partitioned training area until the toddlers learn to expand their attention span to an hour.  But in a Catholic Church - you don't just sit for the entire hour... you are sitting for less than half of it... the rest you are standing, kneeling, and walking... so it's not as hard to keep from fidgeting.

 

As for Sunday School... I treat it as a classroom.  And you just don't do crafts in a classroom... I mean, you do that in college and you get kicked out of class... so, it also bothers me to see crafters in Sunday School... but that's also my problem, not the crafters.

Edited January 5, 2015 by anatess

[Vort]

Knitters/crocheters: From what has been written, I gather that you don't find your knitting at all distracting from listening to a speaker and even participating. Is this correct? If so, can you explain this? I'm trying to think of an activity I could do that requires coordination and purpose, such as counting stitches, yet requires absolutely no attention paid to it, so that I can do it and still be free to think about whatever else I want or converse without restriction. I can't think of anything. Is knitting really so different? Can you explain it in terms I can understand?

[Jane_Doe]

Knitters/crocheters: From what has been written, I gather that you don't find your knitting at all distracting from listening to a speaker and even participating. Is this correct? If so, can you explain this? I'm trying to think of an activity I could do that requires coordination and purpose, such as counting stitches, yet requires absolutely no attention paid to it, so that I can do it and still be free to think about whatever else I want or converse without restriction. I can't think of anything. Is knitting really so different? Can you explain it in terms I can understand?

 

 

While knitting/croching takes concentration at first, after a few hours of learning it becomes a simple repetitive motion, not requiring thought.  Hence, it's quite good for people with fidgety hands.

 

Do you have any simple repetitive things that you like to do Vort?  (I don't know your hobbies well enough to say). 

[Connie]

Vort:  For an experienced knitter or crocheter, it is more a matter of muscle memory than anything else.  Sometimes it depends on the pattern, but most patterns are very repetitive, particularly if it's just a scarf or hat or something.  One can get to the point where counting stitches is not necessary and they can tell from just a glance whether it's right or not.  My mother-in-law said to me on one occasion that she doesn't even have to look at it, she can tell just by feel.  Hope that makes sense.

[Vort]

Do you have any simple repetitive things that you like to do Vort?

Maybe I do. I can't think of any. I've noticed girls who twiddle with or chew on their hair, or people that play with a pencil or something like that. Is that what knitting is? Just mindless, slightly obsessive hand-play? I have noticed that autistic people will sometimes have some sort of motion or "tic" that seems to calm them and allow them to subdue their reactions to things, maybe even concentrate better. Is that along the same lines as knitting?

 

I am not trying to make fun of knitters (or of autism). I realize this is not an uncommon thing, and it strikes me as a part of the human condition. I expect it manifests in me, too. I'm just not sure where. I'm trying to understand the mindset. It seems as if there's an attitude of, "What a waste to sit here for an hour just listening to someone without actually DOING something useful. If only I had brought my knitting..." But the idea here is that the discourse itself is not important enough, or at least that there's no good reason not to knit while you're only going to be sitting listening to someone anyway.

 

If the Lord himself were speaking, would it be acceptable to knit while listening? If not, how is knitting at Church fundamentally different? Again, I'm not trying to be insulting or pick a fight. I'm trying to get a good handle on this issue. My questions are sincere.

[Jane_Doe]

Maybe I do. I can't think of any. I've noticed girls who twiddle with or chew on their hair, or people that play with a pencil or something like that. Is that what knitting is? Just mindless, slightly obsessive hand-play? I have noticed that autistic people will sometimes have some sort of motion or "tic" that seems to calm them and allow them to subdue their reactions to things, maybe even concentrate better. Is that along the same lines as knitting?

 

 

Exactly!

 

It might seem counterintuitive but indulging a "tick" behavior actually helps a lot of people concentrate better (myself included).        People twiddle with their hair, bounce their knee, knit, or other such thing.  

[The Folk Prophet]

Exactly!

 

It might seem counterintuitive but indulging a "tick" behavior actually helps a lot of people concentrate better (myself included).        People twiddle with their hair, bounce their knee, knit, or other such thing.  

 

I despise knee bouncing!!

[sxfritz]

Knitters/crocheters: From what has been written, I gather that you don't find your knitting at all distracting from listening to a speaker and even participating. Is this correct? If so, can you explain this? I'm trying to think of an activity I could do that requires coordination and purpose, such as counting stitches, yet requires absolutely no attention paid to it, so that I can do it and still be free to think about whatever else I want or converse without restriction. I can't think of anything. Is knitting really so different? Can you explain it in terms I can understand?

I knit lace - the most demanding of patterns - and once a pattern is practiced it does not require any concentration. The mind is free to contemplate the mysteries of the world. Hence, I knit.