Converts to LDS Church - Same Standing?

[Aish HaTorah]

I am not sure how to word this, and I do not wish to offend, so please forgive if I ask the wrong thing.

In your faith, is a convert considered "on par" with members who were born into the church?  Do they enjoy the same blessings and standing within the church?

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Aish HaTorah said:

I am not sure how to word this, and I do not wish to offend, so please forgive if I ask the wrong thing.

In your faith, is a convert considered "on par" with members who were born into the church?  Do they enjoy the same blessings and standing within the church?

Yes.  The only thing that would be different is the sealing process.  But once sealed, no difference.

EDIT: I would say that there is a "cultural" exception even if there is none doctrinally.  Some who are born in the Church will have a tendency to believe they are better somehow than converts.  While others who are born in the Church will actually envy converts for having experienced the "mighty change".  So, such prejudice goes both ways.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Guest

[Aish HaTorah]

11 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Yes.  The only thing that would be different is the sealing process.  But once sealed, no difference.

EDIT: I would say that there is a "cultural" exception even if there is none doctrinally.  Some who are born in the Church will have a tendency to believe they are better somehow than converts.  While others who are born in the Church will actually envy converts for having experienced the "mighty change".  So, such prejudice goes both ways.

That is illuminating, thank your for answering.

[Guest MormonGator]

51 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Yes.  The only thing that would be different is the sealing process.  But once sealed, no difference.

EDIT: I would say that there is a "cultural" exception even if there is none doctrinally.  Some who are born in the Church will have a tendency to believe they are better somehow than converts.  While others who are born in the Church will actually envy converts for having experienced the "mighty change".  So, such prejudice goes both ways.

 As a convert I can tell you @Carborendum is exactly right about this. I have my own thoughts though. 

Some people look down their nose at converts (usually people with famous LDS relatives) because most converts do not spend much time in the church. They'll be baptized and burn out after a few months. So lifelong members aren't sure what to think of converts. You really, really need to prove yourself as a convert. You need to prove your testimony, knowledge of the church, everything. 

Generally adult converts who seek the church are also different than those the church finds. Yes, it's a generality but it's based on my own observations. Those who seek the church are a bit more "committed" than those who the church finds.  So just speaking as a convert and one who has spoken to many converts, there can be a difference. Again, not an insult. 

Edited November 17, 2016 by MormonGator

[Sunday21]

Geography matters a lot in how converts are perceived. Where I live very few are born in the church. These normally have a good foundation of knowledge but not always. For some born in the church means they feel ...meh. My bishop is a convert. He is very humble about this. My guess is that outside the territorial us, most people in the building are converts. 

[CV75]

17 hours ago, Aish HaTorah said:

I am not sure how to word this, and I do not wish to offend, so please forgive if I ask the wrong thing.

In your faith, is a convert considered "on par" with members who were born into the church?  Do they enjoy the same blessings and standing within the church?

Yes. How does it work in your faith?

[anatess2]

20 hours ago, Carborendum said:

 

EDIT: I would say that there is a "cultural" exception even if there is none doctrinally.  Some who are born in the Church will have a tendency to believe they are better somehow than converts.  While others who are born in the Church will actually envy converts for having experienced the "mighty change".  So, such prejudice goes both ways.

There's also the prejudice of having served a full-time mission (which most converts don't experience).  Also a cultural thing.

Edited November 18, 2016 by anatess2

[Guest MormonGator]

6 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Geography matters a lot in how converts are perceived. Where I live very few are born in the church. These normally have a good foundation of knowledge but not always. For some born in the church means they feel ...meh. My bishop is a convert. He is very humble about this. My guess is that outside the territorial us, most people in the building are converts. 

That's a good point about geography. 

I don't think there is a tension between converts and lifelong members for the most part- but I know of a few converts that stopped going to church or joined other ones because they thought they were being treated unfairly. How we all treat each other matters. 

It's tough to talk about because both sides can be defensive about it. Lifelong members view it as an attack on everyone and converts view it as a club they'll never be fully accepted into. I think both sides could use a sense of humor and a chill pill sometimes. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by MormonGator

[Guest]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

There's also the prejudice of having served a full-time mission (which most converts don't experience).  Also a cultural thing.

This is a prejudice that needs to go (along with any prejudice against converts).  I can think of several men who chose not to serve missions who are today among the most worthy members i have ever met.  I can also think of a few of my former companions from my own mission who got home and apostasized, cheated on their spouses, went to jail (one of my mission's former APs!), etc.

Edited November 18, 2016 by DoctorLemon

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

This is a prejudice that needs to go (along with any prejudice against converts).  I can think of several men who chose not to serve missions who are today among the most worthy members i have ever met.  I can also think of a few of my former companions from my own mission who got home and apostasized, cheated on their spouses, went to jail, etc.

Great point. Convert or lifelong member, served a mission or not you just never know what'll happen. 

[NeuroTypical]

I'm a child from a part-member family, who went inactive for 6 years and didn't go on a mission, and Pam tracked me down and made me a moderator at lds.net.

[Vort]

7 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm a child from a part-member family, who went inactive for 6 years and didn't go on a mission, and Pam tracked me down and made me a moderator at lds.net.

But you had to change your name.

[zil]

10 minutes ago, Vort said:

But you had to change your name.

And disguise yourself as a pony.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, zil said:

And disguise yourself as a pony.

And an elephant albatross.

[Vort]

6 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

And an elephant albatross.

But we know what you really look like: A Berkeley Breathed sketch. Isn't that right, NT? (Or should we say...LM?!!)

[mordorbund]

24 minutes ago, Vort said:

But we know what you really look like: A Berkeley Breathed sketch. Isn't that right, NT? (Or should we say...LM?!!)

Easy there gangsta.

[Vort]

6 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

Easy there gangsta.

WHAT?!!!

[Just_A_Guy]

21 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Some people look down their nose at converts (usually people with famous LDS relatives). . .

This can be both a blessing and a curse.  My Utah pioneer ancestors sold lumber to Johnson's Army and were personally reprimanded by Brigham Young for doing so. 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Vort said:

WHAT?!!!

Does this look like the Living Tribunal to anyone else?  

Anyone...

No, Carb.  Just you.

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, zil said:

And disguise yourself as a pony.

It's not a disguise.

As to the topic of the thread, my secret wish is that I'll be sitting there happily doing genealogy on my father's side, and discover I have ancestors who participated in the mob at carthage.  Then I'll find a way to let my fellow wardmembers know, and see if anyone treats me any differently.

Edited November 18, 2016 by NeuroTypical

[Traveler]

23 hours ago, Aish HaTorah said:

I am not sure how to word this, and I do not wish to offend, so please forgive if I ask the wrong thing.

In your faith, is a convert considered "on par" with members who were born into the church?  Do they enjoy the same blessings and standing within the church?

 

I am a 5th Generation Later-day Saint.  My Great-great-grandfather was the first Scandinavian convert to the LDS Church and the first Scandinavian missionary.  I have found recollections talking to all 4 of my grandparents, parents, aunts and uncles about the church.  Some aunts and uncles left the faith but still in all cases there was a belief that it did not matter if one was what we call “born under the covenant” or born outside the covenant of faith – conversion is the first step in becoming a “True” believer. 

I was taught it is more difficult for someone not born to the covenant to put their life in order than someone born to the covenant.  I was also taught that it is a greater honor to accomplish more difficult things than to accomplish less difficult things.  All these things are part of my heritage.

I think those that look at converts as not “on par” as a family thing coming from ancestral culture and not from any divine revelation of faith or pronouncement of G-d.  Some families think themselves better and thus teach their children the same – that family is part of being born to entitlements.  For much of my life I thought all families were like mine – but to my surprise they are not.  I can honestly say that my parents are the noblest couple I have ever known but I have come to understand whatever prejudice anyone has – it is not a culture as much as family thing.

I believe the core family is the most important element and foundation of any society and that the culture of our family is important – but I also believe that individual will – can and will override any and all things that can or may be imposed on us for whatever reason.  In the end we individually determine what kind of person we are.

 

The Traveler

[An Investigator]

On 17/11/2016 at 9:12 PM, MormonGator said:

 As a convert I can tell you @Carborendum is exactly right about this. I have my own thoughts though. 

Some people look down their nose at converts (usually people with famous LDS relatives) because most converts do not spend much time in the church. They'll be baptized and burn out after a few months. So lifelong members aren't sure what to think of converts. You really, really need to prove yourself as a convert. You need to prove your testimony, knowledge of the church, everything. 

Generally adult converts who seek the church are also different than those the church finds. Yes, it's a generality but it's based on my own observations. Those who seek the church are a bit more "committed" than those who the church finds.  So just speaking as a convert and one who has spoken to many converts, there can be a difference. Again, not an insult. 

Agree with this.. I was baptised in April but I know my stuff.. I researched the Church fully online before I even met a Missionary or member,  other then the guy at work I was chatting to.   When I decided to come to Church I had already decided I wanted to be baptised ,  so I found the ward Facebook page and asked for a friend coz I was a bit nervous and wanted to come to Church.   I have since realised I was an exception when it comes to how most investigate the Church.   Never mind tho.. I love the Church,  I'm so glad I joined ? and I'm now a Relief Society teacher which is really difficult.. I love it and everyone at Church knows how strong my testimony is so everyone has been really welcoming. 

Edited November 20, 2016 by An Investigator

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, An Investigator said:

Agree with this.. I was baptised in April but I know my stuff.. I researched the Church fully online before I even met a Missionary or member,  other then the guy at work I was chatting to.   When I decided to come to Church I had already decided I wanted to be baptised ,  so I found the ward Facebook page and asked for a friend coz I was a bit nervous and wanted to come to Church.   I have since realised I was an exception when it comes to how most investigate the Church.   Never mind tho.. I love the Church,  I'm so glad I joined ? and I'm now a Relief Society teacher which is really difficult.. I love it and everyone at Church knows how strong my testimony is so everyone has been really welcoming. 

Oh so was I. I walked into a church and the entire ward was just stunned. 

[Sunday21]

12 hours ago, An Investigator said:

Agree with this.. I was baptised in April but I know my stuff.. I researched the Church fully online before I even met a Missionary or member,  other then the guy at work I was chatting to.   When I decided to come to Church I had already decided I wanted to be baptised ,  so I found the ward Facebook page and asked for a friend coz I was a bit nervous and wanted to come to Church.   I have since realised I was an exception when it comes to how most investigate the Church.   Never mind tho.. I love the Church,  I'm so glad I joined ? and I'm now a Relief Society teacher which is really difficult.. I love it and everyone at Church knows how strong my testimony is so everyone has been really welcoming. 

Me also RS teacher! Me also find difficult! Let's put our lessons on this forum and get some help. This has really saved my butt at times!

[An Investigator]

Sounds great! I do the General Conference ones, I'm teaching this Sunday.   Talk is Elder Oaks one about being a member Missionary.. we also have an investigator so I have that on my mind too..are you teaching this lesson?