Ironhold

writer: "stay-at-home moms are criminals!"

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http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/rendezview/sarrah-le-marquand-it-should-be-illegal-to-be-a-stayathome-mum/news-story/fbd6fe7b79e8b4136d49d991b6a1f41c

The author is literally trying to argue that it should be illegal for a woman to stay at home once the children are old enough to attend school, as they're depriving the economy of their labor. 

It gets worse the more you read, culminating in: 

*Only when the tiresome and completely unfounded claim that “feminism is about choice” is dead and buried (it’s not about choice, it’s about equality) will we consign restrictive gender stereotypes to history.*

Yeah.

What's even more shocking IMHO is the fact that people are defending her...

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Guest MormonGator

What, you don't think stay at home moms should be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!?! YOU CHAUVINIST! 

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For some reason, I'm brought to mind the recent General Women's Broadcast and the Relief Society birthday. We had a dinner for that here in Susquehanna and several women got up and spoke about what Relief Society has done for them to help them and improve their lives. Then we got a little bit of a history lesson about it. Relief Society is about women not just sitting home because they can but in building and fostering gifts and talents and using them to better our sisters and others in the community. I don't think this lady's conclusions about solutions is correct that women need to work more, more that we should bring back the pride of homemaking or using our skills. I forget the talk(and I printed it out too!) but in it, the general authority told a story of depression era relief society and a woman that they found out was a pharmacist/chemist or something of the like. To help raise funds, this woman who'd had a career before losing her job, she taught the women how to make simple cleaning supplies that they sold to earn money for the families in need in the church. I'm sorry if I'm butchering this but just trying to show that relief society isn't all cake decorating and mending blankets; that women have a variety of gifts that could be utilized to help their communities. I don't know. A lot of that may already happen in communities across the globe but if it does, then she shouldn't be complaining about women at home as if they're just sitting on their behinds.

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6 minutes ago, a mustard seed said:

... she shouldn't be complaining about women at home as if they're just sitting on their behinds.

Her complaint has nothing to do with knowledge or logic, and everything to do with ignorance and evil.  There's no point even starting a discussion with someone who's sold on such ideas (stick to the people who aren't sure).

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2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I'm not staying at home.  I'm hiring myself as my housemaid.

Hehe. That's a quick work around if this becomes law. The husband just hires the wife. Boom!

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Maybe devil's advocate, I don't know, but can I ask this:

At one point, she makes this point about government welfare:

Quote

The OECD was right to criticise the double standards applied to Australia’s work-search rules regarding welfare benefits. While young people face strict criteria when seeking to access the dole, those aged over 50 can still receive it despite not looking for a job by citing 15 hours volunteer work a week.

The double standards are even greater for stay-at-home mums, with governments of all persuasions traditionally wary to tackle the unfair tax concessions enjoyed by one-income households for fear of inciting voting fury. (No doubt they refer to Abbott’s aforementioned paid parental leave scheme as a cautionary tale).

After a recent discussion about welfare/medicaid, we also value being able to support one's own family rather than living off of the government. Any thoughts on the family who comes looking for help (from gov't, from church, from family) where the husband works for low pay and the wife insists on being a SAHM? Does our value for self-reliance override the desire to have mom stay home?

To anticipate one thought - dad should be improving his earning potential. There will be a variety of scenarios here, but some scenarios require some time, but babies need to be fed now. So what do we make of the "husband is job hunting/training/schooling and will be better able to provide in __ months, and wife does not want to work, so help us" scenario?

Edited by MrShorty

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56 minutes ago, zil said:

Wow.  Just wow.  (And not a good wow.)

zil,

Now you've done it.

zilnib.thumb.png.1c7538054878ce6be38a92f63f1164a9.png

Now I'm going to start calling you "penhead."

Edited by Guest

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Guest

There is sure a lot of stupid in the world. Good thing there are plenty of places for it to land.

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Just now, zil said:

Penhead.  Nibhead.  Not pinhead - there's no pin there, just a nib. :)

well, I corrected it.  But didn't they used to take a pin and stick it into the feather as a plume?

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Just now, Carborendum said:

well, I corrected it.  But didn't they used to take a pin and stick it into the feather as a plume?

Not to my knowledge (but I haven't looked into it).  You just cut the quill portion correctly and use it directly.  Apparently goose feathers work best.

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Guest

WARNING: TIN FOIL HAT ZONE AHEAD.

The thing is that this topic (the OP, not fountain pens and plumes) is more Orwellian than we might think.  The standing theory is that the NWO, the GAAC, what have you have slowly been doing everything they can to get rid of the family.

Children were taken out of the home at the advent of public schooling.

Welfare effectively removed the father out of the home.

Social Security effectively removed grandparents from the (correct) home.

But until now they've failed to get mom out of the home.  But not for lack of trying.  The entire abortion campaign is to stop motherhood.  The feminist movement is to eliminate mothers and turn them into laborers.  "Hiring them as housemaids" is exactly playing into their hands.  It will come with the requirement that no one can hire anyone to whom they are directly related by marriage or by blood (within a certain number of degrees of separation).

BAM.  The family no longer exists.

Edited by Guest

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3 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Hehe. That's a quick work around if this becomes law. The husband just hires the wife. Boom!

The government would actually love that because the mom would be expected to pay taxes! :eek: (you could still get around it though and make it work, i'm just having fun here)

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5 hours ago, Ironhold said:

The author is literally trying to argue that it should be illegal for a woman to stay at home once the children are old enough to attend school, as they're depriving the economy of their labor... *Only when the tiresome and completely unfounded claim that “feminism is about choice” is dead and buried (it’s not about choice, it’s about equality) will we consign restrictive gender stereotypes to history.*


So, if it's about equality, does that mean it's already illegal for a man to stay at home if his children are old enough to attend school?

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When my "stay at home wife" left the church 5 yrs ago and started making new non-member friends...she noticed how all of them other mothers couldnt do half of the homemaking and baking that she could do. They all paid for catering and any other services they needed for parties and get togethers.

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5 hours ago, MrShorty said:

After a recent discussion about welfare/medicaid, we also value being able to support one's own family rather than living off of the government. Any thoughts on the family who comes looking for help (from gov't, from church, from family) where the husband works for low pay and the wife insists on being a SAHM? Does our value for self-reliance override the desire to have mom stay home?

I know of a family that was on church help for 3 years because the wife insisted on staying home which seems to counter this: “Nevertheless, I recognize, as he recognized, that there are some women (it has become very many, in fact) who have to work to provide for the needs of their families." (President Gordon B. Hinckley, in Conference Report, Oct. 1996, 93–94; or Ensign, Nov. 1996, 69)

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Guest

Ballpoint causes more hand fatigue? I thought that was just handwriting, especially when most of what you do is typing.

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21 hours ago, Eowyn said:

Ballpoint causes more hand fatigue? I thought that was just handwriting, especially when most of what you do is typing.

Yes, ballpoints cause hand fatigue:  The ink in a ballpoint is a gel1, not a liquid.  Thus it doesn't naturally want to flow.  So to get a ballpoint to write, you often have to scribble somewhere to get it rolling, then you have to press down hard to force the ball to roll - this requires friction to get / keep that ball moving, and you have grip it tightly to keep it from sliding out of your fingers as you press down hard (you don't realize this because you're accustomed to it - see anecdote below).  Most ballpoints are scrawny, which is also difficult on the hand - having to close tightly around the skinny barrel.  While there are high quality ballpoints (and gel, and rollerball) which are more reliable and don't require as much pressure, all operate on this same requirement of getting a ball to turn using friction against the paper.

By contrast, a fountain pen works through capillary action - hold it nib down long enough and if the ink doesn't dry out and clog the pen, it will start dripping out.  No pressure at all is required - the weight of the pen itself is sufficient to get the ink onto the paper2.  Therefore, you only need to grip it tightly enough to keep it in your hand, not to counteract pressing down on the paper.  (Indeed, pressing as hard with a FP as you do with a ballpoint can ruin a FP nib - spring the tines.)  NOTE: There are nibs which don't work as well as they ought and these require either tuning to work correctly, or a little pressure, but nowhere near that required by ballpoints.

To write with a death grip on the pen produces hand fatigue.  To write while gently cradling the pen in your hand does not.  Add to this proper writing technique - using the shoulder muscles rather than wrist and finger muscles (moving your whole arm) - and you can write for hours on end (once you build up to it) with no fatigue at all.  A fountain pen is a beautiful thing (functionally and aesthetically, depending on the pen and the viewer).  Want one? PM me. :)

Anecdote: We have special requirements at work for writing on regulatory documents.  The standard writing instrument is a Bic stick (ick) or other blue, medium ballpoint.  I don't often have to fill out regulatory paperwork.  Several months after I started using fountain pens, I needed to sign a form.  I picked up a ballpoint and tried to write with it.  No ink came out.  Then I realized I was holding it like a fountain pen, gripped hard and pushed down hard enough to get the ink flowing and thought, "Holy unpleasantness, Batman!  Why on earth would anyone do that to themselves?"  (In other words, it can take a while to adapt to the  FP way, but once you do, when you go back, you realize what you had become inured to.)  I still, at times, especially with new pens, have to remind myself to relax my hand muscles.

1 Ballpoint ink is thickest; gel pen ink is thinner but still a gel; rollerball ink is liquid, but quite thick; dip (calligraphy) pen ink is a liquid thinner than rollerball but thicker than fountain pen ink, though they can use fountain pen ink; fountain pen ink is a thin liquid: 90+% water (and FPs cannot use dip pen / calligraphy ink).

2 Due to the liquidity of the ink, better-than-average paper is usually required for fountain pens (especially as the nibs get larger) so that the ink doesn't soak in, spread out, feather, and become either unattractive or fascinatingly undesirable.

Edited by zil

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1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

@zil You have lovely handwriting!

Thank you.  That was me trying (with a stub nib, which improves most people's handwriting), though.  My normal handwriting is more like what I posted in response to @Vort's thread.

(Compared to the handwriting of many I've seen over on the fountain pen network, my best stinks; of course, compared to others over there, mine's the most beautiful script you ever saw. :lol: )

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