"Other" Covenants possible?

[Rob Osborn]

So, I am a bit curious if there are other covenants possible besides our baptismal and temple covenants, including our marriage covenants? I am curious because I have been told there are "other" covenants possible to be entered into here on earth.

[CV75]

7 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

So, I am a bit curious if there are other covenants possible besides our baptismal and temple covenants, including our marriage covenants? I am curious because I have been told there are "other" covenants possible to be entered into here on earth.

Any examples? Are they talking about a United Order? Are they differentiating between general requirements for exaltation and those needful for the building the kingdom on earth?

[person0]

8 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

So, I am a bit curious if there are other covenants possible besides our baptismal and temple covenants, including our marriage covenants? I am curious because I have been told there are "other" covenants possible to be entered into here on earth.

I would presume that having your calling and election made sure, or being translated, among other personal experiences, may have their own respective covenants. However, since they would be entered into on an individual basis with the Lord, privately, we may not have any specific details pertaining to such a covenant.

[Just_A_Guy]

8 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

So, I am a bit curious if there are other covenants possible besides our baptismal and temple covenants, including our marriage covenants? I am curious because I have been told there are "other" covenants possible to be entered into here on earth.

Yes; but it is generally not requisite for salvation that they be made and entered into during mortality.

[Rob Osborn]

9 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Yes; but it is generally not requisite for salvation that they be made and entered into during mortality.

What are the other covenants, if you dont mind me asking?

[Rob Osborn]

46 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Any examples? Are they talking about a United Order? Are they differentiating between general requirements for exaltation and those needful for the building the kingdom on earth?

No examples, just have been guided to seek to make other covenants possible.

[Traveler]

53 minutes ago, person0 said:

I would presume that having your calling and election made sure, or being translated, among other personal experiences, may have their own respective covenants. However, since they would be entered into on an individual basis with the Lord, privately, we may not have any specific details pertaining to such a covenant.

@Rob Osborn 

As vaguely referenced above the covenants of G-d are not necessarily well known in the world.  But all the covenants of G-d are accompanied by divine law which includes ordinances and commandments.  There is an ordinance of “The washing of Feet” that is referenced in scripture at what is called the “Last Supper”.  The specifics of this covenant are very sacred and are unknown, for the most part, to the world.

 

The Traveler

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

@Rob Osborn 

As vaguely referenced above the covenants of G-d are not necessarily well known in the world.  But all the covenants of G-d are accompanied by divine law which includes ordinances and commandments.  There is an ordinance of “The washing of Feet” that is referenced in scripture at what is called the “Last Supper”.  The specifics of this covenant are very sacred and are unknown, for the most part, to the world.

 

The Traveler

I thought the washing of the feet was just an ordinance. Is there a covenant that goes along with it?

[The Folk Prophet]

33 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I thought the washing of the feet was just an ordinance.

I believe you are correct.

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Yes; but it is generally not requisite for salvation that they be made and entered into during mortality.

Example? There are other ordinances. But "covenants" that go beyond the saving ordinances???

[Guest]

https://www.lds.org/topics/ordinances?lang=eng&old=true

https://www.lds.org/topics/covenant?lang=eng&old=true

There are "saving ordinances" which always include some form of a covenant.  The list is fairly brief and is included in the links provided above.

Other ordinances are not essential to our salvation but are often performed --  the blessing of a baby is a priesthood ordinance, but not a saving ordinance.  And no covenant is included.  A patriarchal blessing, likewise.

To the OP: are there additional covenants we make?  Not commonly.  That is, not that everyone makes.  Some individuals will be asked to make certain covenants through their lives that are specific to them and no one else.  This would be akin to Biblical covenant of Nazarites.  Not everyone was required to take such covenants.  But these individuals had to take an even more strict covenant than the common Jew for a special promise and purpose.

I just recently heard the story of someone in our stake that apparently (this is second hand when I heard it, but several others present confirmed they heard the same thing from the first hand source) had a very difficult situation and did that "bargaining" with the Lord.  

I know we generally don't believe this happens.  But this guy did.  He said,"If you just do 'X', then I'll do anything you ever want me to do" kind of thing.  

Years later, he was asked to do a very difficult thing -- something most people are not asked to do.  And as he was about to rebel again, the Spirit impressed upon him the memory of that promise.  And the impression he got was -- "I'm calling you out on that promise."

As I said, it was second hand when I heard it.  But it makes me wonder if this can happen and if people take such statements too lightly.  To do so really is taking the Lord's name in vain, isn't it?

Edited April 10, 2017 by Guest

[Fether]

I think I heard somewhere that there is an ordinance we do right before becoming exalted... but could just be spreading a bad rumor x) if this is true (which again... i have no real source to suggest it is) then I imagine there are covenants that go along with that.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Fether

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

I thought the washing of the feet was just an ordinance. Is there a covenant that goes along with it?

All ordinances are connected with blessings, either covenants or other blessings. For example, the ordinance of blessing the sick is connected with comfort and healing, though not with any specific saving covenant. Other than clean feet, what is the blessing connected with the washing of feet, if there is no covenant attached to it?

[MrShorty]

The question seems a bit open and subject to interpretation. A couple of scriptural examples, that, if nothing else, will allow you to clarify what you are looking for:

1) Nazarenes/Nazarites like Samson, though I see this described as a vow rather than a covenant, so, if this is not an example, perhaps someone could clarify what the distinction is between vow and covenant. I also note that I am not aware of this vow/covenant ever being practiced in this dispensation (except maybe Orrin Porter Rockwell??)

2) The Anti-Nephi-Lehi's made a "pacifist" covenant to never take up arms -- even in their own defence. Later, when they were considering breaking this covenant, Helaman took it very seriously and did all he could to allow them not to break that covenant.

3) In contrast, there was the covenant Capt. Moroni put his people under to defend their freedoms.

These covenants, if they fit the kind of thing you are asking about, are the kinds of covenants that seem to be specific to individuals/groups and are not the kinds of covenants that all would be expected to take upon themselves. Perhaps the heart of your question is more aimed at those covenants that are more generally undertaken?

[Rob Osborn]

17 minutes ago, MrShorty said:

The question seems a bit open and subject to interpretation. A couple of scriptural examples, that, if nothing else, will allow you to clarify what you are looking for:

1) Nazarenes/Nazarites like Samson, though I see this described as a vow rather than a covenant, so, if this is not an example, perhaps someone could clarify what the distinction is between vow and covenant. I also note that I am not aware of this vow/covenant ever being practiced in this dispensation (except maybe Orrin Porter Rockwell??)

2) The Anti-Nephi-Lehi's made a "pacifist" covenant to never take up arms -- even in their own defence. Later, when they were considering breaking this covenant, Helaman took it very seriously and did all he could to allow them not to break that covenant.

3) In contrast, there was the covenant Capt. Moroni put his people under to defend their freedoms.

These covenants, if they fit the kind of thing you are asking about, are the kinds of covenants that seem to be specific to individuals/groups and are not the kinds of covenants that all would be expected to take upon themselves. Perhaps the heart of your question is more aimed at those covenants that are more generally undertaken?

I ask because my Patriarchal blessing counsels me to seek to make other covenants with my Heavenly Father that are possible to be made here upon the earth. I received my Patriarchal blessing several years after I was married and had already received my endowments and sealed to my wife in the temple. The Patriarch gave me and my wife our blessings at the same time and was aware we were both endowed and sealed to each other.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Rob Osborn

[person0]

1 minute ago, Rob Osborn said:

I ask because my Patriarchal blessing counsels me to seek to make other covenants with my Heavenly Father that are possible to be made here upon the earth. I received my Patriarchal blessing several years after I was married and had already received my endowments and sealed to my wife in the temple.

Although it may not be applicable in your specific situation, there are cases when one's patriarchal blessing is reflective of events that have already happened.  This happened with my mother.

[Rob Osborn]

Just now, person0 said:

Although it may not be applicable in your specific situation, there are cases when one's patriarchal blessing is reflective of events that have already happened.  This happened with my mother.

Except that the sentence before it says that I am blessed with an earnest desire to be faithful to the covenants I have already made. Then it says that I shoukd seek to make "other covenants".Thats why it confuses me.

[Blackmarch]

13 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

So, I am a bit curious if there are other covenants possible besides our baptismal and temple covenants, including our marriage covenants? I am curious because I have been told there are "other" covenants possible to be entered into here on earth.

I know people who've made promises with God in exchange for A they would do B, and God came through for them (in turn they were obligated to do their end of the deal). So I don't doubt that there are, however beyond what is administered by the priesthood within the church is going to be between someone and God. as for Covenants that are necessary for salvation and etc.. those are already being handled by the priesthood in the LDS church. at least all the ones that are necessary for us to have in this life in today's world.

i also note that there's nothing i know that says that all covenants made must only partain to our salvation in the life to come

Edited April 10, 2017 by Blackmarch

[Vort]

43 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I ask because my Patriarchal blessing counsels me to seek to make other covenants with my Heavenly Father that are possible to be made here upon the earth. I received my Patriarchal blessing several years after I was married and had already received my endowments and sealed to my wife in the temple. The Patriarch gave me and my wife our blessings at the same time and was aware we were both endowed and sealed to each other.

Have you talked to your stake patriarch about what he meant?

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Some individuals will be asked to make certain covenants through their lives that are specific to them and no one else.  This would be akin to Biblical covenant of Nazarites.  Not everyone was required to take such covenants.  But these individuals had to take an even more strict covenant than the common Jew for a special promise and purpose.

I think there needs to be an understanding between generic usage of the word covenant and the more precise usage in the modern LDS church. I don't think the scriptures even use the word in the way that we do now when we talk about covenants in the church. That can confuse some. But a covenant, as we now refer to it in the church, is a quite specific thing. Whether that specificity may be applied to Biblical "covenants" or not is unclear, imo.

Edit: After thinking a bit, certainly some biblical covenants fit. As in circumcision.

Edited April 10, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, MrShorty said:

The question seems a bit open and subject to interpretation. A couple of scriptural examples, that, if nothing else, will allow you to clarify what you are looking for:

1) Nazarenes/Nazarites like Samson, though I see this described as a vow rather than a covenant, so, if this is not an example, perhaps someone could clarify what the distinction is between vow and covenant. I also note that I am not aware of this vow/covenant ever being practiced in this dispensation (except maybe Orrin Porter Rockwell??)

2) The Anti-Nephi-Lehi's made a "pacifist" covenant to never take up arms -- even in their own defence. Later, when they were considering breaking this covenant, Helaman took it very seriously and did all he could to allow them not to break that covenant.

3) In contrast, there was the covenant Capt. Moroni put his people under to defend their freedoms.

These covenants, if they fit the kind of thing you are asking about, are the kinds of covenants that seem to be specific to individuals/groups and are not the kinds of covenants that all would be expected to take upon themselves. Perhaps the heart of your question is more aimed at those covenants that are more generally undertaken?

See my comment to @Carborendum above.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

I ask because my Patriarchal blessing counsels me to seek to make other covenants with my Heavenly Father that are possible to be made here upon the earth.

Also, see my answer to @Carborendum above. I think that usage of the word in a patriarchal blessing, by default, must be the more generic meaning of the word: an agreement or promise between two people. Specifically for individuals, I think we all need to seek out what we need to do to qualify for the blessings the Lord has waiting for us.

As to the formal and official ordinance covenants that God has made with us for salvation, they cover pretty much everything. Complete submission by us. Complete salvation and exaltation given by the Lord.

Edited April 10, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[The Folk Prophet]

41 minutes ago, Blackmarch said:

I know people who've made promises with God in exchange for A they would do B, and God came through for them (in turn they were obligated to do their end of the deal). So I don't doubt that there are, however beyond what is administered by the priesthood within the church is going to be between someone and God. as for Covenants that are necessary for salvation and etc.. those are already being handled by the priesthood in the LDS church. at least all the ones that are necessary for us to have in this life in today's world.

I'm not sure how appropriate that is. My understanding is that God sets the conditions of His covenants. We either accept them or we do not. It doesn't work the other way around, or at least shouldn't, it seems to me.

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/10/covenants?lang=eng

Edited April 10, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[Just_A_Guy]

3 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Example? There are other ordinances. But "covenants" that go beyond the saving ordinances???

My perception lines up with what Vort's apparently is:  that in the modern church, all ordinances have covenants attached.  The very words "ordinance" and "ordain" are associated with injunctives (as in "municipal ordinances" or "we the people do ordain this constitution"); even though we tend to use the words today as merely shorthand for ecclesiastical rituals.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Just_A_Guy

[person0]

34 minutes ago, Vort said:

Have you talked to your stake patriarch about what he meant?

I once spoke to my patriarch to ask him about his intended meaning in some of the words in my blessing.  After reviewing the entire blessing with him, the answer I received was basically, "That's a wonderful blessing you've received. . . Once the blessing has been given, I no longer have authority to interpret or clarify, but I know you can receive it for yourself".

In my personal experience, even after being asked to do so, I've often felt the spirit restrain me from interpreting a blessing even just moments after giving it.  That may just have been be me interpreting it incorrectly, or could apply to the lack of stewardship to interpret it.

Edited April 10, 2017 by person0