Church dropping Scouting program

[pam]

SALT LAKE CITY — The LDS Church, the oldest and largest charter organization of the Boy Scouts of America, will drop Scouting from its Young Men's program for boys ages 14 through 17.

Effective Jan. 1, the move will carve about 180,000 Mormon boys from the Varsity and Venturing Scout programs in the United States and Canada, replacing them with activities created for boys in those age groups by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The church will continue to sponsor Cub Scouts for boys 8 to 10 and Boy Scout programs for those 11 through 13 in those two countries, but statements released by the church about the announcement signaled that it may drop those programs in the future, too.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865679711/Mormons-drop-Scout-programs-for-older-teens.html

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/questions-answers-changes-young-men-program

[Guest]

[my two cents]

I've been waiting for this!  I'm sad for Pres. Monson but I'm still joining Carb's happy dance!

[Vort]

Oof. I wish they had just put all young men back into Scouting, so the troops could run correctly.

[pam]

8 minutes ago, my two cents said:

I've been waiting for this!  I'm sad for Pres. Monson but I'm still joining Carb's happy dance!

Yes.  President Monson was one I thought of immediately.   But I think it's a great decision.

[Vort]

You know, perhaps this really is win/win. The young men who actually want to continue in Scouting can still do so, to earn rank or whatnot. I guess we'll see how it goes.

[pam]

[Just_A_Guy]

In 2007, the Salt Lake Council's chief executive took home total compensation (including all benefits) of $214K.  (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695226688/Scouts-may-be-thrifty-but-some-leaders-are-well-paid.html)

Ten years later, the position is worth $341K. (http://www.sltrib.com/news/5278985-155/mormon-church-takes-steps-away-from?page=2)

And yet the BSA continually hectors the Church for more money; while the rank-and-file membership works in Scouting units for free and the Church's top echelons of leadership (based on leaked documents and some educated guesstimates) earn half of what BSA regional execs do for running a global organization with six times the BSA's membership. 

BSA is a country club, masquerading as a charity.

#andtheywonderwhyweareleaving

Edited May 11, 2017 by Just_A_Guy

[Jane_Doe]

Why keep the 12-14 year old scouts?

[The Folk Prophet]

7 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Why keep the 12-14 year old scouts?

Because the change is related to the functionality of the Varsity/Venture level scouting and not related to the other politics, etc... The other scouting programs are still effective.

Edited May 11, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[Anddenex]

Although, I am still crying there is chartering and friends of Scouting to do. I was hoping this incorporated all boys 12-18.

What would you say to Church members about participation in the Friends of Scouting fundraising drive?

• The Church will continue to be involved in Friends of Scouting as part of its relationship with the BSA and the Scouting programs for boys and young men ages 8 through 13.

My concern, we are still apart of Scouting so the work load is still there, and now it looks like we will have more to do rather than just one program for the young men. Hopefully soon, only cub scouts will be offered.

[NightSG]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

You know, perhaps this really is win/win. The young men who actually want to continue in Scouting can still do so, to earn rank or whatnot.

And their rank will actually mean something.  That's one part of the Church I'm glad I didn't have growing up; our troop made it hard to get Eagle, and even though I moved on to other things (a nice little blonde in particular) before I got there, I still have yet to meet a LDS Eagle with the skill level of most of our Star scouts.

[Guest]

I am a little sad about this.  I earned the rank of Eagle Scout, and it has been a huge help to me ever since in getting into colleges, law school, getting jobs, etc.  I also enjoy the idea that I would survive, and even thrive, in a nuclear holocaust, thanks in part to skills I learned in Scouting, and in part to my intense interest in "worst case scenario" survival books.  I don't think I would have been able to do all of this in a non-LDS troop - I have spent a short time visiting other troops, and the ones I saw were nowhere near as dedicated, organized, or progress-oriented as the LDS troops.  Moreover, I believe it is a little unsafe to join non-LDS troops... you just don't know what you are getting in the leadership.

That said, I am not exactly surprised that this happened.  I think the writing has been on the wall with recent changes in Scouting protocol.  

Edited May 11, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[my two cents]

38 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Why keep the 12-14 year old scouts?

It's actually 8-13

[my two cents]

47 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

In 2007, the Salt Lake Council's chief executive took home total compensation (including all benefits) of $214K.  (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695226688/Scouts-may-be-thrifty-but-some-leaders-are-well-paid.html)

Ten years later, the position is worth $341K. (http://www.sltrib.com/news/5278985-155/mormon-church-takes-steps-away-from?page=2)

And yet the BSA continually hectors the Church for more money; while the rank-and-file membership works in Scouting units for free and the Church's top echelons of leadership (based on leaked documents and some educated guesstimates) earn half of what BSA regional execs do for running a global organization with six times the BSA's membership. 

BSA is a country club, masquerading as a charity.

#andtheywonderwhyweareleaving

Amen!

[prisonchaplain]

My guess is that this move reflects that the BSA values tend to reflect the culture, though its traditions, smartness, and para-military dressing shield us from this reality.  Other faith groups that practice robust counter-culture values formed their own versions of scouting decades ago.  Royal Rangers, Royal Ambassadors, AWANAS, etc. are flourishing. My guess is that future LDS will come to rejoice at the remembrance of this announcement--a decision that awakens the church a bit more to the times in which we live.

 

Edited May 11, 2017 by prisonchaplain

[NightSG]

13 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

I don't think I would have been able to do all of this in a non-LDS troop - I have spent a short time visiting other troops, and the ones I saw were nowhere near as dedicated, organized, or progress-oriented as the LDS troops.  Moreover, I believe it is a little unsafe to join non-LDS troops... you just don't know what you are getting in the leadership.

There's a big difference between "progress oriented" (which means micromanaging in the LDS troops I've seen) and hands-off yet supportive of progress.  The former leads to scouts who must be "commanded in all things" while the latter aids and rewards individual initiative.  Also, the Scout-led nature of the troops gives the younger ones a definite leadership goal to work toward if they want to.  I spent enough time as acting SPL to know that anyone truly good at that job has great potential as a cat herder, kindergarten principal or fascist dictator, depending on personality.

Unfortunately, the job market for fascist dictators is very limited, so I never tried to get the long term spot.

Edited May 11, 2017 by NightSG

[workingonit]

My understanding is that the Varsity Venture program is "owned" by the church and does not exist outside of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.  Do any of you out of the Utah bubble know if this is true?

[zil]

37 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

I also enjoy the idea that I would survive, and even thrive, in a nuclear holocaust, thanks in part to skills I learned in Scouting

So, what? You got the cockroach badge?

[Vort]

7 minutes ago, workingonit said:

My understanding is that the Varsity Venture program is "owned" by the church and does not exist outside of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.  Do any of you out of the Utah bubble know if this is true?

I don't believe this is true for Venturing, which is open to young men 18 years old as well as to young women. I have never heard of non-LDS Varsity teams, though.

[Jane_Doe]

8 minutes ago, workingonit said:

My understanding is that the Varsity Venture program is "owned" by the church and does not exist outside of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.  Do any of you out of the Utah bubble know if this is true?

The Varsity Venture program is part of BSA, and in no way LDS owned.  Any group (religious or otherwise) may charter Varsity Venture troops.  Currently, 1/3 of troops or 1/5 scouts are LDS (numbers for all of BSA, not just VV).  Also, a non-LDS person is welcome to join an LDS troop and vise versa. 

[yjacket]

Only the beginning.  My prediction, in 5 years the Church will be completely out of Cub Scouts and BSA.

I'll be glad when we leave that putrid, stinking rotting corpse that used to actually stand for traditional American Christian Values.

PC and SJWs (and especially Bob Gates) have destroyed that once fine, upstanding moral organization.

The most critical first step in this process of extraction from this corrupt organization is to shore up the most critical part, i.e. the top-end where a conflict between gospel values and worldly values will become more and more pronounced and more likely to afflict the minds of the youth.  This is what is occurring now.  It will work its way down to younger ages next and then Cub Scouts.

Bravo to the Church!

Edited May 11, 2017 by yjacket

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, zil said:

So, what? You got the cockroach badge?

I might have been using a little bit of hyperbole, but scouting really does teach you good survival skills.  Merit badges such as first aid, wilderness survival, and emergency preparedness contain a lot of good knowledge that everyone should have.  

[eddified]

3 hours ago, pam said:

The church will continue to sponsor Cub Scouts for boys 8 to 10 and Boy Scout programs for those 11 through 13 in those two countries, but statements released by the church about the announcement signaled that it may drop those programs in the future, too.

I haven't seen any statement signaling that the church may drop other BSA programs. Citation, please?

[Vort]

29 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

The Varsity Venture program is part of BSA, and in no way LDS owned.

Not really correct. The Church is basically the only organization that charters Varsity teams. The Varsity program was developed by the Church for use in Church Young Men's programs, and was adopted into BSA primarily for Church use. Technically, other chartering bodies could indeed create Varsity teams, but no one does. It's by and for the LDS Church, and it will go away in 2018.