I need serious help

[Oracle]

I just made my account for the express purpose of making this thread. I don't know where else to go. I am not proud of what I am about to admit.

I was born into the church and I used to be pretty faithful when I was younger, though I never actually read the scriptures outside of church. I was about 12 when I realized I was gay, and over time I stopped caring about church very much and I became almost agnostic around the age of 13. I am very ashamed of it, but I watched pornography and masturbated for years and only stopped about a week ago, I also had sex once when I was 15.

A few days ago, I was in Nauvoo on a trip with my stake, and I felt inspired to build my testimony, read the scriptures, begin to pray again, and repent, and maybe even start going to seminary. I've started all of them except for seminary, and I think my prayers are getting answered.

I had a crush on one of my roommates, but after I started praying I didn't feel the same way about him, instead I mostly admired him, though temptation was still there. I have also gone almost a week without masturbation with almost no desire to do it again, and every day the desire is less. I truly think I will be able to overcome these things.

I am now 17 and I am a priest, and I pass the sacrament every Sunday, and I also acted as a proxy in the Nauvoo temple this week.

Are these things that I am required to tell a bishop if I can overcome them on my own? Am I worthy to pass the sacrament? Am I worthy to even partake of it? Was I even worthy to be ordained a priest, teacher, or even deacon? Because I wasn't actually worthy to enter the temple, does that mean that it wasn't a valid baptism when they were baptized through me?

Is this something that I can just overcome, repent for, and never do again and it will all be fine, or do I have to be re-ordained and would the baptisms have to be redone with a worthy proxy?

If I did tell the bishop, what would happen with me? Would I not be allowed to attend seminary? Would people know about what I've done? These aren't things I want people I know to know about me. I could get beat up at school for this, and my dad is already disappointed in me enough because I was never dedicated to God and he still hopes I will go on a mission one day. I tell him that I want to go to college, which is easier than telling him I'm not worthy, but the truth is, I kind of would like to go on a mission.

Would I be able to go on a mission if I overcame these things and I had a strong testimony, dedication to God, and knowledge of the Gospel, or is it way too late?

Please help me.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Oracle
There was a typo.

[zil]

Dear Oracle, I admire your courage and determination, and the progress you've made so far.  You do need to talk to the bishop, but it won't be as bad as you think. In fact, once your first visit has finished, I'm sure you'll be glad. Don't hold back - tell him everything, including everything you've told us - you don't need to go into any more detail than what's here, just don't leave out anything major.

The consequences of this confession will be better than the alternative. I'm sure you will be able to attend seminary.  The bishop will be able to answer your questions about worthiness.

Don't delay.  Because you're doing good, Satan will start trying even harder to hinder your progress. The bishop has keys to help you against that.  Don't fear - God loves you and the Lord is there to help you. I will pray for you to have strength.

[Jane_Doe]

Oracle,

Your strength here is amazing.  Yes, you do need serious help, from the Lord directly and from your spiritual coach (you Bishop).  As you seem to recognize, you're in a mire of difficulty right now- please don't try to do this alone!  All of the many issues you've listed here are major sins and addictive- things that it is practically impossible for you to just say "I quit" and have that be the end of it-- rather they require a complete spiritual rebirthing.   Your bishop is there to help you and guide you down the path of healing.  Talk to him today.  

Yes, you'll still be allowed to attend seminary- in fact your bishop will be overjoyed to hear that desire from you.  You won't have to be re-ordained either.  No the Nauvoo baptisms won't need to be redone.  No other people won't know of your situation-- in fact I would be some members of your quorum have also had talks with the bishop about repenting, you just don't know because it's none of your business, just like your appointments are none of their business. 

What other steps involved will depend on close details of the situation, details we here just don't know.  That's another reason you should go talk to the bishop: he does know you, and can be there in person to help you the best possible.   Talk to him today.  

[askandanswer]

oracle, serious violations of the law of chastity will not prevent you from going on a mission as long as they have been fully confessed and repented of and the proper procedures have been followed. Someone asked about this on this forum just the other day. Here is their question:

About 10 months ago I had to wait to go on my mission due to some violations of the law of chastity. I recently found out that after a year of waiting, I should be able to find out when I can go again. In about 2 months the priesthood authorities and I will submit our letters to the mission office. My question is, does anyone know how long it should take once those letters are in to hear back from the mission office? I've heard of it taking a very short time in some circumstances, me in others, several months. I'm just curious to know if I should be returning to school in He meantime, if I should start buying stuff and packing now, etc. Thank you in advance!!

You might want to have a look at the discussion here 

 

 

[Oracle]

I can't bring myself to tell the bishop. (technically I have a branch president, but that's not important.)

I am in a small branch, I am the only priest, there are two teachers who almost never come to church, and one deacon. Everyone would know that I did something if I stopped passing the sacrament.

This is too much for me. I just have this horrible feeling that I can only describe as depression. I am in a perpetual state of fear, shame, sadness, hopeless, and alone.

I hate my life right now. Will I ever actually be interested in women, or will I have to fake it my entire life?

[zil]

3 minutes ago, Oracle said:

This is too much for me. I just have this horrible feeling that I can only describe as depression. I am in a perpetual state of fear, shame, sadness, hopeless, and alone.

I hate my life right now.

This will end if you go see the branch president, Oracle - please trust us on that.  It may still be hard, but it'll be the good hard, the hard of work and progress, as opposed to the hard of despair.

Even if you aren't able to administer the sacrament, and even if people think you did something, they won't know what, and it won't matter.  What matters is you getting the help you need to get right with the Lord - that is worth any sacrifice.  Humbling yourself enough to get through that will make you so much stronger, and bring you so much closer to the Lord.

Instead of saying, "I can't...", start saying, "I will not let anything come between me and the Lord."  Keep repeating that until you have the strength - the longer you wait, the harder it will be, the sooner you act, the sooner bad feelings will be replaced with good.

You still have my prayers.  And lots of e-hugs.

[Sunday21]

Dear Oracle,

Honestly, it is not so bad. You are sorry. That's most of the battle won! It is so much easier than you think. 

 

[NeuroTypical]

I was terrified to go sit in the bishop's hot seat.  It could have meant the end of my marriage, my job, my life.  

It was the most freeing, most soul-cleansing thing I've ever done.  

If you're going to bother being Mormon, you might as well be Mormon all the way.  Either the church is true or it isn't.   Put your faith and trust in God, and go confess to your Branch President.  

[person0]

14 hours ago, Oracle said:

Are these things that I am required to tell a bishop if I can overcome them on my own?

Yes.

14 hours ago, Oracle said:

Am I worthy to pass the sacrament?

No.

14 hours ago, Oracle said:

Am I worthy to even partake of it?

No, at least temporarily.  Regardless, you may or may not be required to abstain from partaking the sacrament.  Your bishop/branch president will determine what is appropriate to your situation.

14 hours ago, Oracle said:

Was I even worthy to be ordained a priest, teacher, or even deacon?

No, not if all of this was happening during that time.

14 hours ago, Oracle said:

Because I wasn't actually worthy to enter the temple, does that mean that it wasn't a valid baptism when they were baptized through me?

No, the Lord will validate the baptism regardless of and in spite of your worthiness as a proxy.

14 hours ago, Oracle said:

Is this something that I can just overcome, repent for, and never do again and it will all be fine . . .?

Yes.

14 hours ago, Oracle said:

. . . or do I have to be re-ordained and would the baptisms have to be redone with a worthy proxy?

No, your ordinations are still valid.  They will become fully validated between you and the Lord upon your sincere and completed repentance.

14 hours ago, Oracle said:

If I did tell the bishop, what would happen with me?

Most likely you would be commended for your sincere desire to repent, overcome, and draw closer to the Lord.  You should expect to leave the meeting with him at peace and uplifted by the Spirit of the Lord.  You can expect the joy of knowing you are fulfilling the path of repentance the Lord has prescribed.  You might possibly be given a time frame to abstain from blessing, passing, or partaking of the sacrament.  The time frames may be different, such as don't partake for 1 month, don't pass or bless for 2 months; they might also be the same, the bishop will use the spirit to determine what is best.

Missionaries who falter with an act of masturbation, for example, are generally required to continue partaking the sacrament no matter what because the leadership of the Church have determined that it is prudent in the eyes of the Lord to not allow the members or investigators to question their worthiness.  While it is unlikely, given you are the only priest, there's always a very tiny chance that a similar inspiration could come to your bishop/branch president.

Over time you would become fully clean and be ready to serve a mission.  I would expect an absolute maximum length of 1 year for your repentance process, but given the specifics you have shared, if I were your bishop, I would say between 3 and 6 months would be more than enough to determine you have sincerely repented, and to walk with you through the repentance process.  (Disclaimer: I have never been a bishop or branch president)  In the MTC I learned that an Elder who confesses the sin of sexual intercourse while in the MTC is not sent home if his repentance has been and is sincere, so long as the transgression is more than 3 years in the past.  (No, I did not commit such a sin myself, however, it came up in an interesting discussion with my MTC branch president).

You will also very likely need to meet with the Stake President.  Sexual intercourse outside of marriage is a serious sin, and should not never be considered lightly.  Don't ever do it again, this is God's power being used improperly!

14 hours ago, Oracle said:

Would I not be allowed to attend seminary?

There would be no reason to not allow you to attend seminary.  In fact, your bishop would be well pleased with your desire to attend.  It is further evidence of your sincerity.

14 hours ago, Oracle said:

Would people know about what I've done?

The bishop would not tell anyone (unless he felt it necessary to include your parents which is entirely reasonable), however, your parents might ask you on their own.  People will try and make guesses and might look at you funny.  That is the result of their own wickedness, pride, and improper judgement.  Regardless, I can assure you no one will ever know about your homosexuality unless you choose to disclose it, or unless your Church leaders act improperly (highly unlikely in a case like yours).  You have no cause to be ashamed for your repentance, only for your sins of the past.  Once your repentance is complete, you may consider it as if you had never committed those acts, for this is how the Lord sees it.  You will be clean!  

14 hours ago, Oracle said:

Would I be able to go on a mission if I overcame these things and I had a strong testimony, dedication to God, and knowledge of the Gospel, or is it way too late?

You will absolutely be able to go.  It is not even close to being too late.  I would expect you to still be able to go before turning 19.  You should also consider telling your dad that you do think you want to serve a mission, but that you know you need to prepare yourself to go.

You need to know that the Lord loves you.  You have not done anything that will keep you from His love.  His hand is stretched out still, all the day long, for you.  Repent!  Draw near unto Him.  Read your scriptures.  Pray fervently and sincerely.  At this point the only thing holding you back is fear, but Christs love casteth out all fear.  I can tell you already that even just the strength of your desire to repent is preparatory to your becoming a valiant soldier of God!  Your homosexuality, nor your sins, need to define who you are, they are merely attributes of your mortal and physical state.  You are a son of God.  His plan is for you.  Repent!  Just do it, and partake of the fruit of His love.  I promise you will find joy you have never known, or have long since forgotten.  You will strengthen your testimony, and will become a strong witness of the power of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Oracle said:

I can't bring myself to tell the bishop. (technically I have a branch president, but that's not important.)

I am in a small branch, I am the only priest, there are two teachers who almost never come to church, and one deacon. Everyone would know that I did something if I stopped passing the sacrament.

You are right about this part. If you stop officiating or assisting in sacrament, it will be very visible.

Well, good for you. Doing what is right is always better than doing what is wrong, even (OR ESPECIALLY) when it's uncomfortable or embarrassing.

If people ask about it -- which they shouldn't -- you can simply tell them you're talking with the branch president about things. That's all. You never need to tell them any more. Probably no one will ask. (The exception here is your parents, who will -- and should -- ask, and to whom you might want to give a better explanation of what's going on. They love you more than anyone in the world, and they can help.)

1 hour ago, Oracle said:

This is too much for me. I just have this horrible feeling that I can only describe as depression. I am in a perpetual state of fear, shame, sadness, hopeless, and alone.

Talk to your branch president and start on your path back to where you want to be, and those feelings will vanish. Really! But odds are they'll come back, weaker but still there, and you will need to be brave again to reconquer them. And they'll come back again, weaker but still real, and you'll do it again. This is how we grow and become stronger.

1 hour ago, Oracle said:

I hate my life right now. Will I ever actually be interested in women, or will I have to fake it my entire life?

None of us knows this. You well may find heterosexual desires and impulses that bloom. But your important work is to get yourself right with your Father in heaven so that his Spirit can guide you to holiness. The rest will eventually take care of itself.

[BeccaKirstyn]

There have already been wonderful comments on all of the questions you have asked, so I'll just leave my comment at this: You are a child of God who loves you and wants nothing more than for you to be happy, full of the Spirit, and not full of feelings of despair, loneliness, or hopelessness. Please know, those feelings are NOT from God. That is Satan and his desire for you to never find your way through the path of repentance. He wants you just as miserable as he is. There is a healthy feeling, and a normal feeling of guilt and sorrow when you've realized you've sinned and strayed from God, but that is the beginning of the "broken heart and a contrite spirit" that is needed to begin the repentance process. But God would never want you to feel alone or hopeless in this journey. He sent His son to die for you, and to suffer every pain you feel right now so that you don't have to do this alone. Take His help! He loves you more than you know and wants you to walk with Him through this. He will not leave you. 

Please read this talk by Elder Holland, I think it can bring great comfort. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2006/04/broken-things-to-mend?lang=eng

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by BeccaKirstyn

[Fether]

16 hours ago, Oracle said:

I just made my account for the express purpose of making this thread. I don't know where else to go. I am not proud of what I am about to admit.

I was born into the church and I used to be pretty faithful when I was younger, though I never actually read the scriptures outside of church. I was about 12 when I realized I was gay, and over time I stopped caring about church very much and I became almost agnostic around the age of 13. I am very ashamed of it, but I watched pornography and masturbated for years and only stopped about a week ago, I also had sex once when I was 15.

A few days ago, I was in Nauvoo on a trip with my stake, and I felt inspired to build my testimony, read the scriptures, begin to pray again, and repent, and maybe even start going to seminary. I've started all of them except for seminary, and I think my prayers are getting answered.

I had a crush on one of my roommates, but after I started praying I didn't feel the same way about him, instead I mostly admired him, though temptation was still there. I have also gone almost a week without masturbation with almost no desire to do it again, and every day the desire is less. I truly think I will be able to overcome these things.

I am now 17 and I am a priest, and I pass the sacrament every Sunday, and I also acted as a proxy in the Nauvoo temple this week.

Are these things that I am required to tell a bishop if I can overcome them on my own? Am I worthy to pass the sacrament? Am I worthy to even partake of it? Was I even worthy to be ordained a priest, teacher, or even deacon? Because I wasn't actually worthy to enter the temple, does that mean that it wasn't a valid baptism when they were baptized through me?

Is this something that I can just overcome, repent for, and never do again and it will all be fine, or do I have to be re-ordained and would the baptisms have to be redone with a worthy proxy?

If I did tell the bishop, what would happen with me? Would I not be allowed to attend seminary? Would people know about what I've done? These aren't things I want people I know to know about me. I could get beat up at school for this, and my dad is already disappointed in me enough because I was never dedicated to God and he still hopes I will go on a mission one day. I tell him that I want to go to college, which is easier than telling him I'm not worthy, but the truth is, I kind of would like to go on a mission.

Would I be able to go on a mission if I overcame these things and I had a strong testimony, dedication to God, and knowledge of the Gospel, or is it way too late?

Please help me.

Just tell the branch president man! I would Do it just for the emotional relief honestly. 

It is a hard transition that one needs to make I situations like this. You can either remain what In can call the "Luke warn" section of the gospel where everything you do is for fellowship and for friends. Don't get stuck living the gospel in a way where your worth is base do on what others think

Build your testimony, of you aren't living the way you should, then repent  change everything! Become a spiritual power house. What do spiritual power houses do? They repent as soon as they sin and do whatever is necessary to get back on track! Trust me, of people notice, it will only inspire those that want to become better and they will forever look up to you.

this is not a gospel where the prophets and apostles, 70s, stake presidents, and bishops are all perfect. This is a church where the greatest leaders have sinned and repented. The greatest leaders on my mission have had some of the greatest repentance stories. Be that great leader that spits in the face of sin, and of sin gets the best of you, spit in the face of pride, bcom humble, and repent  

that is where joy is found!

This line you have to cross will take you from the secular, cold, "what will people think of me" section to the "like unto Moroni" Inconvenient Fearless Satan Slayer (TM)  section!

Read the account of Corianton, who struggled greatly with sexual sin, in Alma 39. After, read Alma 48:17-18. ALL of Alma's children were like unto Moroni. EVEN CORIANTON

So regardless whether you are guilty or not of great sin, speaking tonyou is bishop will help a ton  

[Oracle]

If I told my branch president he would most likely tell my parents, or they would end up asking me when they found out I wasn't passing the sacrament. It would be very bad to tell my parents these things considering what they have experienced with four of my older siblings. I do not want them to think I am like my siblings, and I do not want to be treated like my siblings.

My three older brothers are atheists, and one of them is gay and he has about $10,000 in student debt dropped on my parents and he is completely wasting his life, and my older sister started skipping school to do drugs and have sex, so she was taken out of school and home schooled. She began to sneak people through her bedroom window and sneaking out of the house at night. She would also cut names and shapes into her skin using a blade. She was sent to a mental hospital twice before we had to send her back to live with her biological father.

My parents finding out cannot end in any good way. In the best possible scenario, my parents would have absolutely no trust in me, take my bedroom door away, take me out of public school, one of my parents would always wait outside the bathroom and shower waiting for me, and not let me do anything I want or go anywhere alone. My sisters would also find out and it would be spread around school and I would be beat up for it.

In the worst case scenario my parents send me away to the strictest boot camp they can afford.

And why is telling the branch president necessary? Isn't repentance between the sinner and God?

If I did tell the branch president, and he didn't tell my parents, but my parents wanted to know, would it be wrong if I told them a lie? I would much rather have them think that I got a hold of alcohol and had a drink.

I will not do anything that will result in my parents finding out the truth.

If I have to I will wait until I am in college and I will tell the bishop at the church there, even if it having to wait.

[Jane_Doe]

Oracle: your parents know that you aren't your siblings-- give them a little credit.  And they don't have to be told-- give your branch president a little credit.  

If they ask "why aren't you blessing the sacrament" then you say "I'm working on things with the Branch President.  He's being a great help.  I really appreciate you guys being supportive and giving he & I the time and space we need.  Thank you."  End of conversation.

10 minutes ago, Oracle said:

And why is telling the branch president necessary? Isn't repentance between the sinner and God?

You're in a spiritual ICU right now.  This is not something you are just supposed to wing on your own, but rather have a doctor help guide you through Christ's atonement here.  Don't risk getting lost anymore than your already are.

Here's a great article on the subject: https://www.lds.org/new-era/2013/10/why-and-what-do-i-need-to-confess-to-my-bishop?lang=eng

10 minutes ago, Oracle said:

If I did tell the branch president, and he didn't tell my parents, but my parents wanted to know, would it be wrong if I told them a lie? I would much rather have them think that I got a hold of alcohol and had a drink.

"Mom, Dad, I'm going through some stuff right now.  I'm getting help.  Thank you for supporting and loving me."  

That's all you have to say.  

[zil]

Dear @Oracle, I'm very sorry for the trials your family has already been through.  A few thoughts:

0) Repenting sooner is always better than repenting later.

1) Do not lie in any future interview with the branch president.  If you can't bring yourself to tell him, don't lie either, just tell him you're not willing to talk about it.

2) With sins of the severity you've described, you need the person with keys (branch president) to help you repent.

3) I would think that if you explained things to your branch president, and explicity forbade him to tell your parents, that he would not.  (Anyone know if he's required to tell Oracle's parents?)

4) Consider that if the branch president may ask you to refrain from administering and partaking of the Sacrament, attending the temple, etc. then even if you don't confess to him, you should stop yourself from doing these things.  If anyone asks, just tell them, "Thank you for your concern, it's personal." and say no more - no matter how long the silence draws out.

5) There's no reason to lie to your parents.  Simply say that you aren't ready to talk to them about it, but that if that changes, you'll let them know.  (Or something along those lines.)  The end.  No matter what they say or do, simply say nothing more.  This is better than lying, by far.

But please consider carefully the collective experience of the folks here on this board who know through various means that repenting is a good thing, a strengthening and unburdening thing.  Life is better thereafter.

I'm sorry for the difficult situation you find yourself in, and will continue to pray for you.  Whatever you do, don't give up!  Keep trying to do the things you know are right, and avoid temptation.

[Just_A_Guy]

18 minutes ago, Oracle said:

If I told my branch president he would most likely tell my parents, or they would end up asking me when they found out I wasn't passing the sacrament. It would be very bad to tell my parents these things considering what they have experienced with four of my older siblings. I do not want them to think I am like my siblings, and I do not want to be treated like my siblings.

My three older brothers are atheists, and one of them is gay and he has about $10,000 in student debt dropped on my parents and he is completely wasting his life, and my older sister started skipping school to do drugs and have sex, so she was taken out of school and home schooled. She began to sneak people through her bedroom window and sneaking out of the house at night. She would also cut names and shapes into her skin using a blade. She was sent to a mental hospital twice before we had to send her back to live with her biological father.

My parents finding out cannot end in any good way. In the best possible scenario, my parents would have absolutely no trust in me, take my bedroom door away, take me out of public school, one of my parents would always wait outside the bathroom and shower waiting for me, and not let me do anything I want or go anywhere alone. My sisters would also find out and it would be spread around school and I would be beat up for it.

In the worst case scenario my parents send me away to the strictest boot camp they can afford.

And why is telling the branch president necessary? Isn't repentance between the sinner and God?

If I did tell the branch president, and he didn't tell my parents, but my parents wanted to know, would it be wrong if I told them a lie? I would much rather have them think that I got a hold of alcohol and had a drink.

I will not do anything that will result in my parents finding out the truth.

If I have to I will wait until I am in college and I will tell the bishop at the church there, even if it having to wait.

Oracle, if I may say so:

Either your parents and your sisters are remarkably heartless, vindictive individuals; or your sense of perspective has been remarkably skewed by what you have experienced.  

If the former--that's a tough situation to be in, and I feel for you, and I don't know how to advise you except to say that theologically, at some point confession to priesthood authority is a requisite component of true repentance and you aren't doing yourself any favors by officiating in priesthood ordinances unworthily.  It may be that you need to start repeatedly saying "that's really not something I choose to share at this time" and sticking to your guns when people get nosy.

If you are in the latter scenario, though--well, that's a big part of why a bishop is needed; because Satan plays all kinds of mind games with you as long as you're living in darkness.  It may well be that your fear and shame are unnecessarily isolating you, not only from the Spirit, but from your family and from the community of believers that needs your support.  You have some legitimate concerns; but a lot of what you express here looks like "catastrophizing" which is frequent when one is dealing with compulsive or addictive-type behavior (I am *not* saying you are addicted; but I find that treating it as an addiction is often a useful paradigm for stopping problematic behaviors).

If you think you need to wait until college before dealing with a bishop, just bear in mind that at some point you are going to have to deal with this--whether in the run-up to a mission, or serious dating, or a temple wedding.  Repeated masturbation--especially if it is in conjunction with a porn problem--will *not* just go away if you suppress the behavior and keep it undercover long enough (in the addiction recovery program, we call that "white knuckling it").  Deep down, I think you already know that.

If you're into podcasts, check out the July 9 episode of "Leading LDS" podcast.  Then, subscribe to "The Next Step-12 Steps to Change" podcast.  (If your parents ask why you're listening to stuff about addiction, tell 'me it's because a guy you met online (me) is an addict.  )

[my two cents]

Another option is to talk to the Stake Pres instead.  He may need to tell the Branch Pres about not having you help with the sacrament but it shouldn't go beyond that so he (BP) wouldn't be able to tell your parents the reason behind it.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Oracle said:

It would be very bad to tell my parents these things considering what they have experienced with four of my older siblings. I do not want them to think I am like my siblings, and I do not want to be treated like my siblings.

My three older brothers are atheists, and one of them is gay and he has about $10,000 in student debt dropped on my parents and he is completely wasting his life, and my older sister started skipping school to do drugs and have sex, so she was taken out of school and home schooled. She began to sneak people through her bedroom window and sneaking out of the house at night. She would also cut names and shapes into her skin using a blade. She was sent to a mental hospital twice before we had to send her back to live with her biological father.

My parents finding out cannot end in any good way. In the best possible scenario, my parents would have absolutely no trust in me, take my bedroom door away, take me out of public school, one of my parents would always wait outside the bathroom and shower waiting for me, and not let me do anything I want or go anywhere alone. My sisters would also find out and it would be spread around school and I would be beat up for it.it.

Is there something you're not telling us about your parents?  This is highly unusual.  What happened to the other two?

[Oracle]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

Is there something you're not telling us about your parents?  This is highly unusual.  What happened to the other two?

I don't exactly get what you are asking. My mom is inactive. I'm not particularly close with either of my parents. If you are trying to ask me if my parents are abusive, the answer is no, and you should have just asked directly. My parents are not abusive, they love me very much. I know that they would never hurt me if I told them, and they would not mean to make me miserable. My parents will think that they didn't try hard enough with my other siblings and try as hard as they could to "help" me, even if it meant making my life absolutely miserable.

If you weren't asking me if my parents are abusive, then what were you asking?

As for my other two brothers, they despise religion and have wasted much of their potential.

 

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Either your parents and your sisters are remarkably heartless, vindictive individuals; or your sense of perspective has been remarkably skewed by what you have experienced.

My parents just wouldn't understand, they would be trying to help me. My sisters can be very absent minded and have serious lapses in judgement. They would likely tell a friend thinking that friend would keep it a secret, and then eventually everyone would know.

 

 

I am no where near ready to confess to my branch president anyway. I'm not even sure if I actually believe in God. I'm trying to, and I'm acting as if I do, but I just don't know what I believe. I keep hoping that eventually I will feel something and I will actually start to believe, but I'm not so sure anymore. I can't just do it because someone who might exist wants me to do it.

[Jane_Doe]

9 minutes ago, Oracle said:

I don't exactly get what you are asking. My mom is inactive. I'm not particularly close with either of my parents. If you are trying to ask me if my parents are abusive, the answer is no, and you should have just asked directly. My parents are not abusive, they love me very much. I know that they would never hurt me if I told them, and they would not mean to make me miserable. My parents will think that they didn't try hard enough with my other siblings and try as hard as they could to "help" me, even if it meant making my life absolutely miserable.

If you weren't asking me if my parents are abusive, then what were you asking?

The reaction you're describing seems.... frankly, extreme.  We were wondering if there was a reason for that- perhaps something else going on that we don't know about. 

(Obviously I'm not Carb and don't intend to answer for them.  I was just wondering the same question of Oracle).

9 minutes ago, Oracle said:

My parents just wouldn't understand, they would be trying to help me.

When I was a teenager, I did keep things from my parents- serious stuff going on that I felt they would not understand.  Now that I'm a parent myself.... I was half right.  Some things they would have understood and it wouldn't have been the end of the world, and they could have been helpful.  Other things... parents are indeed human.  Parents make mistakes.  Somethings I was going through they won't have understood-- but that doesn't mean I should have totally kept my mouth shut-- I SERIOUSLY needed help, just like the title of your thread.  That's part of why we have other adults in our lives (such as Branch Presidents): so they can help support us when we need it, regardless of what our parents might do.  

9 minutes ago, Oracle said:

I am no where near ready to confess to my branch president anyway. I'm not even sure if I actually believe in God. I'm trying to, and I'm acting as if I do, but I just don't know what I believe. I keep hoping that eventually I will feel something and I will actually start to believe, but I'm not so sure anymore. I can't just do it because someone who might exist wants me to do it.

What you describe here is all the more reason to see your Bishop!  You don't see your bishop because you have a perfect faith in God, but rather because you *desire* to have that faith.  Have you seen this talk?

 

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Jane_Doe

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Oracle said:

I don't exactly get what you are asking. My mom is inactive. I'm not particularly close with either of my parents. If you are trying to ask me if my parents are abusive, the answer is no, and you should have just asked directly. My parents are not abusive, they love me very much. I know that they would never hurt me if I told them, and they would not mean to make me miserable. My parents will think that they didn't try hard enough with my other siblings and try as hard as they could to "help" me, even if it meant making my life absolutely miserable.

If you weren't asking me if my parents are abusive, then what were you asking?

31 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

The reaction you're describing seems.... frankly, extreme.  We were wondering if there was a reason for that- perhaps something else going on that we don't know about. 

(Obviously I'm not Carb and don't intend to answer for them.  I was just wondering the same question of Oracle).

That's pretty much where I was at.  I wasn't "implying" or "meaning" anything.  I was just shocked to hear what you said and thought "This is highly unusual.  What is going on?"  I  didn't have any hidden meaning, message, accusation, or expectation.  I was just shocked & curious.  So I asked the question.

If you know that your parents love you, then you also know that eventually, you can work it out.  There might be rough patches.  But that's life.  When there are problems, you work through them.

I believe one thing that is blinding you to some realities is unrealistic expectations.  You can't deal with any kind of sin and just expect you'll have no problems because "I repented."  We still live in an imperfect mortal world.  Things are going to happen whether we think we deserved them or not.  And sometimes, it is because of things we did wrong even after we repented.  Again, that's life.

If you have that understanding and brace yourself, you may find the experience a lot easier than you expected.  But if you go into it with the expectation that everything will be a cake walk, then you're going to be disappointed.  Better to prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.

As far as same sex attraction: Remember that we do not consider a person to "be gay."  You are a child of God who has been given certain traits -- some strengths, some weaknesses.  A trait you have currently is same sex attraction (SSA).  For simplicity and flow of speech, we may say "you're gay."  But it is important to remember that this is a trait.  Not a definition of who you are.

As a child I had certain tastes in food.  They didn't define me.  My tastes changed.  Some things I liked as a kid, I still like.  Others changed.  

I'm afraid that some people have SSA so strongly that it will be EXTREMELY difficult to change it.  But others have it more mildly.  Sometimes they can "work with it". And still others can actually change it entirely.  I believe you to be in this last category.  I can't put my finger on it.  But that is the vibe I get.

Consider that your attraction to males is no different than a hetrosexual being attracted to non-spouse members of the opposite sex.  I'm happily married to a wonderful and beautiful woman.  But I certainly notice a beautiful woman who is not my wife. When I was younger, I found it difficult to not have "wandering eye trouble."  But I simply had to train myself.  It first started with a decision.  I CHOSE to not look at other women that way.  I CHOSE to not think of other women in a sexual manner.  I practiced and trained.  It took many years.  But today (for the most part) I see other beautiful woman no differently than I look at attractive men.  (Yes, a heterosexual man can actually notice that other men are very attractive individuals.)

I'd say that my development with women is probably more difficult than what you need to do with men.  It is much more difficult to find a balance than it is to go all the way away from something.  I had to find a balance that let me appreciate the beauty that is my wife and let me love her emotionally, spiritually, and physically.  But at the same time, I'm forbidden to look at other women that way.  

When you hear the story about the coach driver going near the cliff, do you think it's easier to be told you HAVE to stay as far from the cliff as possible?  Or do you think it would be easier to be told, stay between 10 ft to 5 ft from the cliff.  No farther.  No closer.  I'd find it much easier to stay WAYYYY far away from the cliff.

But change takes hard work.  It starts with a choice.  It goes through a lot of hard work.  It requires dependence upon the enabling power of the Atonement of Christ.  Only with all that and a lot of time, does it end with lasting change and full repentance/forgiveness.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Guest

[NeuroTypical]

Oracle, you've been given good advice - you should see your branch president.  We're just a bunch of anonymous people with opinions.  He is your priesthood leader, and is best able to counsel you.    We've taken down your last few posts - this isn't a good place to ask those kinds of detailed explicit questions. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by NeuroTypical

[Jojo Bags]

On 7/16/2017 at 4:45 AM, Oracle said:

I just made my account for the express purpose of making this thread. I don't know where else to go. I am not proud of what I am about to admit.

I was born into the church and I used to be pretty faithful when I was younger, though I never actually read the scriptures outside of church. I was about 12 when I realized I was gay, and over time I stopped caring about church very much and I became almost agnostic around the age of 13. I am very ashamed of it, but I watched pornography and masturbated for years and only stopped about a week ago, I also had sex once when I was 15.

A few days ago, I was in Nauvoo on a trip with my stake, and I felt inspired to build my testimony, read the scriptures, begin to pray again, and repent, and maybe even start going to seminary. I've started all of them except for seminary, and I think my prayers are getting answered.

I had a crush on one of my roommates, but after I started praying I didn't feel the same way about him, instead I mostly admired him, though temptation was still there. I have also gone almost a week without masturbation with almost no desire to do it again, and every day the desire is less. I truly think I will be able to overcome these things.

I am now 17 and I am a priest, and I pass the sacrament every Sunday, and I also acted as a proxy in the Nauvoo temple this week.

Are these things that I am required to tell a bishop if I can overcome them on my own? Am I worthy to pass the sacrament? Am I worthy to even partake of it? Was I even worthy to be ordained a priest, teacher, or even deacon? Because I wasn't actually worthy to enter the temple, does that mean that it wasn't a valid baptism when they were baptized through me?

Is this something that I can just overcome, repent for, and never do again and it will all be fine, or do I have to be re-ordained and would the baptisms have to be redone with a worthy proxy?

If I did tell the bishop, what would happen with me? Would I not be allowed to attend seminary? Would people know about what I've done? These aren't things I want people I know to know about me. I could get beat up at school for this, and my dad is already disappointed in me enough because I was never dedicated to God and he still hopes I will go on a mission one day. I tell him that I want to go to college, which is easier than telling him I'm not worthy, but the truth is, I kind of would like to go on a mission.

Would I be able to go on a mission if I overcame these things and I had a strong testimony, dedication to God, and knowledge of the Gospel, or is it way too late?

Please help me.

We have the freedom to do anything we choose, but we do not have the freedom to choose the consequences.  Those are mandated by our Heavenly Father.  The best thing you can do is show humility by accepting the consequences of your actions, no matter what those consequences may be.  Then you can get on with your life without the guilt and shame.

[eddified]

On 7/16/2017 at 6:50 PM, Oracle said:

I hate my life right now.

It sounds to me like you have a hard road ahead, but if you confess to your bishop and forsake your sins, you will have peace inside your soul. And with peace in your soul, you will be able to better deal with the other things you have going on in your life. Sin causes misery, there is no way around it. By forsaking the sin, you can forsake the misery caused by the sin.

[seashmore]

You definitely need to confess to your branch president. As you prepare for that, I suggest you keep the phrase "full appropriate disclosure" in mind. As your assigned judge in Israel, he needs to understand the distance of how far you've strayed, but he doesn't need to know the details.

Beyond that, there has been some pretty sound spiritual advice given here. Let me offer you some practical advice.

You seem to be very concerned about how to explain things to those who don't need to know why you aren't passing/partaking of the sacrament. If you feel you need a solid answer for their questions, tell them the counsel on page 27 in the For the Strength of Youth is difficult for you to follow. Those who are asking because they truly care will look up that page and probably pray for you. Those who are asking because they are only curious won't be bothered. I suspect your parents fall into the former category. I very much understand your hesitation in sharing with them your same sex attraction. You know your parents and family better than we do, and the Midwest can be a pretty tough place to come out as a religious homosexual. If you feel it's not a wise time to do so, trust that feeling and stick to the masterbation line with them. Remember, "full appropriate disclosure."

I'm assuming you live in the Midwest because you mentioned going to Nauvoo with your branch for a youth conference. I've spent my entire 31 years within 100 miles of the Mississippi or Missouri Rivers, so I get the branch aspect of life. When I was in a YSA ward, I noticed there was a guy who came from a pretty stalwart family who wasn't didn't take the sacrament for a while. I knew him well enough to care about him, but not well enough to say anything. Instead, I chose to pray for him. Every week, I would sit behind him and pray that he would receive the strength and assistance to overcome whatever was holding him back. I was so excited when I saw him partake of it again! He ended up being the Elders Quorum President when I moved out of the ward and into the tiny branch I'm in now. (We have five deacons, two teachers, and one priest who, now that I think about it, has never passed the sacrament.)

You've been to Nauvoo! I'm assuming you saw the pageant, and you probably felt something as they lit up the temple at the end of it. Remember those feelings. Use that experience to motivate you to make the daily choices that will get and keep you worthy to not only partake of that light, but to keep it within you. Put a picture of a temple at night (my personal favorites are Nauvoo and Winter Quarters) near temptation zones. Ponder the significance of it being a light in the dark, and think of ways Christ has been the light in your dark times. Spend some time learning about the pioneers. Their stories are so inspiring. Watch Ephriam's Rescue if you can. Your branch needs you, and they need you to be clean. Your priesthood leader (branch president) is keenly aware of that, and will help you in any way that he can.

I had dinner with some folks from church and the elders showed us a video. I don't remember what the name of it was or where they found it, but I do remember it talking about how, through the Atonement, regret can become relief. When I saw that part, I thought of how I've felt that way about some of my own sexual transgressions as I keep the commandments. It's interesting, too, that the regret comes back as I fall slack in my daily prayer and scripture study.