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Utah school requires girls to say "Yes" to all boys who ask them to dance.

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https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/family-relationships/schools-decision-to-refuse-girls-right-to-say-no-if-boys-ask-them-to-dance-challenged-by-pupils-parent/ar-BBIZdka?ocid=st

Just speaking as a guy, this is a lesson we (men) must learn at an early age. No one wants to be turned down, but it happens to all of us. You deal with it and move on. When a girl says "no" in junior high it'll empower her and make it easier for her to say "no" later in life. This is one of the worst, worst rules I've ever seen for a school.
 

@LiterateParakeet @zil @Maureen @Jane_Doe @pam-thoughts from the women please. 

Edited by MormonGator

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Honestly this strikes me as making a mountain out of a mole hill. 

Parents: what you teach your kids about personal space and respect is not a function of the ELEMENTARY school dance.  If that school dance is really being the loudest voice in your kid's life, then by you need to open your own mouth and actually start saying something.  Going to the principle throwing tantrums... not the most productive use of time.  

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Saying "yes" to going to a dance doesn't mean a guy has the right to take advantage of you.  

Dating a person doesn't mean a guy has the right to take advantage of you.  

Being married to a person doesn't mean a guy has the right to take advantage of you.  

 

Again, I think this is SUPER important for parents to have taught your kids boundaries and such.  Don't rely on the school system.

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In this day where sexual assault is rampant, I think this is a very bad lesson to be teaching girls or boys.  I mean, what kind of message is it teaching our children about being able to say "no" to unwanted romantic (and potentially sexual) attention?  What happens when some of these children grow up with these ideas, that women are not supposed to say "no" ever to any sort of advances?  It may seem innocent at a junior high dance, but the messages it is sending are dangerous.

As a teenager, I was poor, uncool, not athletic, and had absolutely terrible complexion.  I was told "no" regularly for things like dates and even dances all the way up until I met my wife.  I lived, and so can these boys.

 

Edited by DoctorLemon

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Hmm, no shocker that the headline tries to sensationalize / divide - it appears the school rule applies to all students - no matter who asks you to dance (same gender, different gender, boy-ask-girl, girl-ask-boy, etc.), you must say yes.  I'm thinking if one wanted, they could artificially manufacture a religious persecution case, and a sexual orientation case.  Were I directly involved in this (and had no shortage of money), I'd make it my job to sue everyone and anyone until the school decided that dances were a big mistake.

But then, I am a jerk.

Edited by zil

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6 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

As a teenager, I was poor, uncool, not athletic, and had absolutely terrible complexion.  I was told "no" regularly for things like dates and even dances all the way up until I met my wife.  I lived, and so can these boys.

 

You learn very quickly that hearing the word "no" isn't fatal and you move on. A valuable life lesson actually. 

Edited by MormonGator

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There is a time and place to go to irrational extremes, break out the bulldozer and bull horn, and commence to roll over the top of all the bureaucracy and policies and stuff, yelling at the top of your lungs, watching average folks with average jobs scatter like roaches.  If this school doesn't publicly state they're changing their school dance policy, then this is one of those times. 

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2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

There is a time and place to go to irrational extremes, break out the bulldozer and bull horn, and commence to roll over the top of all the bureaucracy and policies and stuff, yelling at the top of your lungs, watching average folks with average jobs scatter like roaches.  If this school doesn't publicly state they're changing their school dance policy, then this is one of those times. 

And if your irrational extreme includes letter-writing, this is the time to break out the ink with glitter in it (just in case some of the glitter will rub off on their fingers as they read your letter).

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I think this school is making a mistake. By not giving the girls the right to choose for themselves who they want to dance with does not necessarily promote inclusivity. It just takes away their right to choose. Teach kids why it's important for everyone to want to choose to be kind to others, to everyone. Forcing kids to be inclusive and kind is not authentic, it's not real kindness - it's forced.

M.

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2 minutes ago, Maureen said:

I think this school is making a mistake. By not giving the girls the right to choose for themselves who they want to dance with does not necessarily promote inclusivity. It just takes away their right to choose. Teach kids why it's important for everyone to want to choose to be kind to others, to everyone. Forcing kids to be inclusive and kind is not authentic, it's not real kindness - it's forced.

M.

Exactly my thoughts. It takes away their freedom to choose. Inclusivity would mean inviting everyone to the dance, not forcing everyone to dance with people they may not want to. 

 

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1 hour ago, zil said:

This seems like the perfect opportunity to teach your child when it's OK to defy institutional rules (like this one) and when it's not.

Not to go all off-topic, but...  I was a year ahead in math.  The last required math class was the algebra class taken in 10th grade (9th grade for me).  When I was in 10th grade, I was assigned to take a Geometry class - an 11th grade class.   But it was a remedial class, taught by a teacher who only taught remedial classes, and it was full of remedial 12th graders1 - and me.  It took me no time at all to figure out the class was not for me (more likely, the teacher was not for me).  Since it wasn't required, I tried to drop it.  They told me no.  I complained to Mom who went to the school and told them to let me drop it.  They said no.  At this point, whether tacitly or explicitly, I don't remember, it became clear that my parents did not care what grades I got in the class - it was all up to me.  I didn't do the homework, sat quietly doing other stuff in class, and took the tests.

In this way, my parents taught me that it's OK to defy institutional rules when they're stupid about it - but you still have to accept the consequences of defying those rules.

(In 11th grade, I enjoyed pre-calc and trig.  That was the last math class I ever took.)

1I cannot comprehend why they made these students take an optional class.  Maybe this was the only way to keep that teacher employed...

Edited by zil

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This makes my blood boil.  After many parents spoke up and said wise things like, "“Inclusiveness is not nearly as important as teaching children that they have no obligation to allow anyone to touch them or invade their personal space if it makes them uncomfortable.”  And “This sends the wrong message. Anyone should have the right to say 'no.' Teaching children how to say no respectfully is a more important lesson.”  The school insists on keeping the rule.  They can't claim ignorance, they know and they choose to insist on inclusivity anyway.  What does that tell us about the people in charge?  

If my children went to this school, I would sit them down and talk to them about consent.  And I would give them the option NOT to attend the dances.  I admit my first inclination would be to insist they don't go, but since I'm trying to teach consent that would be hypocritical.  

There are many articles about teaching consent out there.  Here is one I liked:
http://www.parentmap.com/article/metoo-sexual-assault-how-teach-consent
 

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We should be teaching our kids good choices.  Not forcing them to say yes.  With bullying so rampant with young kids today what if one of these young men who had been bullying one of the girls decides to ask her to dance knowing she can't say no. Then uses the opportunity to further mock or bully?  I just see so many things wrong with this rule.  Plus what others have mentioned.  How are we teaching our young women to say no when the need arises?

If I had a child going to this school, my child (daughter or son) would not be attending this dance.

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11 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

This makes my blood boil.  After many parents spoke up and said wise things like, "“Inclusiveness is not nearly as important as teaching children that they have no obligation to allow anyone to touch them or invade their personal space if it makes them uncomfortable.”  And “This sends the wrong message. Anyone should have the right to say 'no.' Teaching children how to say no respectfully is a more important lesson.”  The school insists on keeping the rule.  They can't claim ignorance, they know and they choose to insist on inclusivity anyway.  What does that tell us about the people in charge?  

If my children went to this school, I would sit them down and talk to them about consent.  And I would give them the option NOT to attend the dances.  I admit my first inclination would be to insist they don't go, but since I'm trying to teach consent that would be hypocritical.  

There are many articles about teaching consent out there.  Here is one I liked:
http://www.parentmap.com/article/metoo-sexual-assault-how-teach-consent
 

Perfect post. At the height of the "Me Too" movement, this was colossally stupid. 

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2 hours ago, eVa said:

This is right up there with participation ribbons and not keeping score in sports.  :doh:

You realize WHY there are participation ribbons and not keeping score in sports?  Right?

It was to encourage people to PLAY sports instead of stay inside, and to show that sports in and of themselves can be fun, that there was no need for competition.

Participation ribbons actually were regularly given out in my day and later with my kids...it's only been in the past 20 years that I've seen people start complaining about them and several organizations stop passing them out.

Not surprisingly, America's obesity rate has skyrocketed during that time period...

Might not be a cause and effect, but I don't think it's merely coincidence.  Stop making sports about simply being fun, and make it more about competition, and those who don't do well in sports or are not competitive suddenly are not going to enjoy or like sports anymore.

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41 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Perfect post. At the height of the "Me Too" movement, this was colossally stupid. 

Yeah.  My first thought was that they didn't realize (naiveté) but they know and stand by their choice.  That's scary to me.  I wouldn't want to live in that town.  That might sound extreme, but the prinicipal, the teachers, the school board...whomever made this decision and is foolishly standing by it....are mostly likely members of the church.  What if they are men?  What if they hold prominent positions in the church?  What if that principle was your Bishop?  Eiiiiieeeeeee!  

39 minutes ago, pam said:

Why not just do a bunch of snowball dances during the course of the dance?  

I forget what is a snowball dance?  

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8 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I forget what is a snowball dance?  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_(swing_dance)

I remember going to a dance in junior high where they did this. I sat on the bleachers wondering what I was doing there. I eventually called my dad on a pay phone and asked him to pick me up. Me and my two other friends played Nintendo the rest of the night at my house. 

Edited by MormonGator

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