Carol Lynn Pearson's book

[jewels8]

Just now, jewels8 said:

Would you feel disgusted with yourself if you had sex with 2 women?

I mean even if you were to get married or not to both of them, don't you have any feelings that would be hard about it? 

[jewels8]

Just now, jewels8 said:

I mean even if you were to get married or not to both of them, don't you have any feelings that would be hard about it? 

or do you just want to pretend it would be a piece of cake for everyone involved because God commanded it?

[jewels8]

Just now, jewels8 said:

or do you just want to pretend it would be a piece of cake for everyone involved because God commanded it?

 

Just now, jewels8 said:

or do you just want to pretend it would be a piece of cake for everyone involved because God commanded it?

don't judge unless you've walked in a person's moccassins

[jewels8]

23 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm pretty sure you don't know what hypocrisy means. It certainly isn't about refraining telling someone that their view of one of God's commandments is mistaken unless you're perfect.

I know what hyporisy means.

[jewels8]

The rest of my quote got cut off or isn't all together, so just forget it, it doesn't make sense, and I didn't need to put it there anyway,  .    It didn't go in the right spot and I'm tired of this, since its going no where anyways.  

[wenglund]

Feminist issues can be discussed reasonably with people of opposing views. In fact, such discussions can lead to progress and change.

Such was the case with Cassie Jaye, a once staunch feminist who decided to do a expose documentary on the Men's Rights Movement, only to find her beliefs about feminism and men's rights turned upside down. (See HERE and HERE))

This is how a reasoned discussion on feminist issues looks like:

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[JohnsonJones]

7 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Pride is evil. Humility is righteous. That is not opinion. That is truth. It's amazing how many so-called "debates" I end up in where the primary view of the person debating against what I've said is arguing on behalf of pride. Those arguments are false and wrong and will lead to pain for the individuals who cling to them so fiercely. Those who express a pure willing to submit to God in all things will never cross the path of my admonishments. I may disagree with them on politics, or even on whether being gay is a choice or not. But that is a debate of opinion. And in those cases your suggestion may hold some merit. I, as many do, tend to hold my opinion in higher esteem than those I disagree with. Of course.

* My motivation for speaking gospel truth has, admittedly, changed over the recent past. Many may have noticed that I have been absent on these forums for quite some time. I got fed up with the constant nastiness that is natural to online interactions. And I got tired of having holier-than-thou leftists telling me how their "nice-ness is best" philosophy on interactions was superior to boldly proclaiming the truth. But I had a few epiphanies recently. 1. The world needs boldness WAY more than it needs nice-ness (aka political correctness). Sensitivity has spoiled the world. We are not in a good place as a culture, and it stems, in a great way, from the politically correct idea that hurting feelings and being insensitive is the worst thing you can possibly do. I think there may well be more value in learning to have someone speak boldly to you without suffering from PTSD symptoms in response. So when I hurt someone's feelings (usually inadvertently -- sometimes intentionally), it's as likely as not an opportunity for them to practice characteristics that this world sorely needs.** 2. I need to be proclaiming gospel truths daily to maintain my own focus on them. I am weak, as all men are, and when I do not engage in gospel thought I find myself sliding into apathy in ways I should not -- sometimes leading to poor behavior. This forum is not the only means one has to stay sharp in the gospel. It is one way that seems to work well for me. I'm sure I'll get fed up again and take further breaks. But...there it is.

** I fully understand (I think @wenglund alluded to this elsewhere,) that being kind is probably more about and for me and my character than it is about others. But I do not typically go after people as fiercely as I have in this thread (though I get treated as if I have done so regardless of my care in the matter (note: this is not an implication that it being taken badly either way justifies something wrong)). But...yeah...if you want to get my ire up, apparently, imply you think something of God is disgusting.

I bolded the part I think is the most important.  One needs to be Bold, but one needs to ensure they are not being bold due to Pride.  The Lord was bold in his mortal ministry, but he also was understanding, charitable, and loving.  The question when one is sticking strongly to a point is to wonder if one is doing so due to pride, or due to humility.  Boldness in humility is far more powerful than boldness due to pride.  Hard hearted people tend to be bold and unyielding...while those who have charity tend to have a great love. 

In this thread, we have what we see as a lady who has a testimony of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints.  She believes in eternal marriage.  She is a fellow member of the church. 

What purpose do we have then, of tearing her down?  Do we not want to build up people's testimonies and reinforce the Love of Christ to all men?

Would the way we speak to her be the same way we would present our discussion in public?

The difference between being bold in PRIDE, and being bold in the way the Lord would have us do is the difference between wanting to "be right" and doing it out of love.

When we talk to someone about the gospel, are we sharing what we do because we want to "be right" or are we doing it because we love the individual?  The one who is prideful does it to be right.  The one who does it in humility does it due to love.

Sometimes we take what others say in the wrong context.  I believe there are some comments on this thread that are gravely misunderstood by many, and rather than seeing that there are a great number of similarities, we take offense at something, that if we understood the reasoning and context behind it, would not be so offensive to us.

Looking at the Lord for our example, He rarely reproved individual publically.  Instead he would use them as examples to others of how not to be while praising those who exemplified what he was trying to teach.  At times, those he would reprove were those who understood his teachings and who he was the best, and yet denied him.  At the same time, many of those he praised were those who probably understood him least, but followed him with all their hearts.

I try to be humble, but unfortunately, all too often, especially when facing anti-Mormon sentiments from individuals I get quite snappy (which is a great sin on my part).  We are taught, NOT the golden rule, but to TURN the other cheek.  Sometimes, rather than turning the other cheek, I get far too snappy instead. 

A second difficulty I see I have is when I have personally experienced something that has harmed me or others.  Most of the time this is something based on the culture of how we do things as Mormons, rather than something that is hard doctrine.  These are times when I could very well be wrong, but the emotion comes strongly across of me pushing that this idea of mine is right...rather than something is not necessarily right...or wrong (as it's a cultural thing, rather than anything dealing with doctrine typically).  People are disturbed when culture is questioned at times (Especially culture as deeply imbedded as some of the Utah/Arizona/Idaho Mormon Culture is at times which can also be in areas outside of those places, but more prevalent in those states) and this can lead to deep discussions where each is sounding as  if their way is the only way (when in truth, neither way is the absolute way of truth or doctrine, in some cases it's not even dealt with except from leader to leader, stake to stake, or at times ideas that have changed from period to period even).  I know I am guilty of this (for starters, we had a thread about HP that meets this fault of mine to a T recently).

The other great fault of mine is when I see a HUGE potential in someone, and they are not living up to what I imagine they could.  Unfortunately, at times I tend to get too terse and say the wrong things.  It isn't because I mean to say them in the way they are interpreted, but because I love the individual and wanted them to be so much more.

On that note, I hope that what I'm about to say is not taken the wrong way. TFP, I love that you are willing to defend the Prophets and the church. I love that you have returned here and that you are willing to share your opinions and ideas with us.  I love that you've gotten your resolve to post here more often.  I think at times if you posted more with a testimony of what you believe, rather than direct countering what you do not like, it could be more useful. 

I think you went on a mission.  I think when you were on that mission you probably (or I would hope, It may be that you did not) got the advice that it is better to bear testimony than to argue.  Fighting brings about the spirit of contention, but the bearing of testimony brings about the spirit.  I am probably FAR MORE GUILTY THAN YOU in this arena, and thus I have the beam in my eye compared to any mote you may have in yours.  I only bring this up because I think the bearing of testimony can be a far greater and more effective tool at times when we are testifying of truth (though we should be sure it is truth and not just our opinion).

It also helps when we have the spirit to break down walls of misunderstanding and helps us to understand the individuals that we are discussing things with. 

I am VERY guilty far too often of not doing this.  Thus, this is pointing out my OWN faults even more than it is pointing out anything with you. However, I think we could both at times strive to be a little bit more loving, and a little less confrontational at times.

[JohnsonJones]

7 hours ago, jewels8 said:

 

don't judge unless you've walked in a person's moccassins

A little levity to try to lighten this thread up a little.  Please don't take it the wrong way.

I haven't walked in someone else's moccasins but I tried to wear my wife's boots once by accident.  They did not fit.  I did stretch them out a little on the top.  My wife was not happy with that.  Whenever I go to put on my boots now days, she always points out where MY boots are and where HER boots are.  She makes sure I am never going to try to wear her boots again.

She does not feel I need to try to wear her boots to get a better understanding of her.  If anything, if I feel that strongly about wearing her boots, she'll hit me over the head with them before she lets me wear them again!

7 hours ago, jewels8 said:

or do you just want to pretend it would be a piece of cake for everyone involved because God commanded it?

I personally don't have any desire to find out in regards to the topic.  I'm perfectly happy with my wife as it is.

However, I think that sometimes the commandments we are given are not given because they are easy, but because they are hard.  It's not something I like to think about though. 

I think of course, that you know this.  Your question is rhetorical.  This is not because you LIKE the idea, but you pose the question to make us think about what it is people are talking about, and whether we would find it easy or hard if it really were commanded.  Personally, I do not think it will be something anyone has to worry about being commanded to do in the near future (but I am NOT a fortune teller, I do not know the future, it's just my thoughts that this will not be something people are commanded to do, at least in my lifetime).  I think you ask, because you know that the answer is obviously, it would not be a piece of cake.  At times, what we are asked to do in general is not easy.

A prime example that I have grown to love and appreciate.  My family are not lifelong members of the church.  On the otherhand, my wife's family ARE members all the way back to Joseph Smith.  However, for me, I have no pioneer heritage in my lines.  Gordon B. Hinckley was a prophet in our church and in the late 90s he talked about finding the importance of our Pioneer heritage.  At the time, I had a hard time with that as I did not have a pioneer heritage for me.  How would such a thing apply to me?

I started studying the pioneers though.  They were given a trial by fire (as the phrase goes).  They were to cross the plains and come to the gathering of Saints in the Rocky Mountains.  Not all of them did this.  Those who did had a great deal of suffering.  We find that there are a great many that left family members by the wayside as they travelled.  There were those who came from England, selling all they had to buy passage on ships to come.  Once here, they were penniless, but where helped by the Church to build handcarts which they pushed along the plains.  Almost all the companies that came had some deaths among them, a few had a LARGE amount of death among them, and at times it appeared as if the whole company would perish. 

Even those who came by wagon, especially those who came at first, suffered.  During the first year in Utah they had almost no food.  People were subsisting on scraps and whatever they could find to make it through.  The next few years were still meager years, years of great faith and suffering. 

I have no doubt that they went through a very hard trial.  It was absolutely not a piece of cake. 

I did not have a hard trial, but finding out their sufferings and sacrifices increased my own appreciation of the pioneers.  Because of them, the church exists and the gospel of the Lord continued to be broadcast to the world (and even if they died or refused, the Lord would have found a way, but because of their sacrifice his gospel was allowed to continue in that fashion to us).  Because of them, they had children and from those children was my wife.  I appreciate them for that as well, and also that my children can look back at these pioneers as inspirations of their own ancestors in their lives.

I think the same thing was suffered by those who had to practice polygamy in some instances.  Ironically, many probably thought they had the hardest trial coming over the plains and surviving those first few years in Utah, but we know from some accounts that they found polygamy FAR harder than that.  This tells me that this was a VERY hard commandment for some of them to follow.

I think many righteous people today would have great difficulty.  I think we are blessed today that this is NOT a commandment that we have to follow.  The prophets do not come and tell us who to marry or that we need to marry others.  I am grateful that our day has it so that we can be monogamous and be fully engaged in love for our spouses. 

I believe in eternal marriage and that we will be together forever with our families in the Celestial Kingdom as long as we do what the Lord wants us to do.  It is something I am very grateful for.  I love my wife and the idea that I can be with her forever is a very sweet feeling.

I know that you cherish your family as well, and this is why this feels so important to you.  I think you have pointed out the important things in this thread, that it is our love for our families and for our spouse that is important.  We should love our spouse as Adam loved Eve, or as Lehi loved Sariah, or Richard G. Scott and Jeanene (his wife, I do not believe he ever remarried).

I thought I'd just add this little bit about Richard G. Scott and his wife (she passed away 10 years before he did).

Quote

Those who have listened to Elder Scott’s general conference talks know of his love for Jeanene. He spoke of her often, even after she passed away. In his first general conference talk as a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy in 1977, Elder Scott paid tribute to his wife, “a beloved, cherished companion. … Jeanene has ever been a model of pure testimony, love, and devotion; she is a tower of strength to me.”¹⁶

More recently, in an inspiring conference talk on marriage, he recalled the many expressions of love he and Jeanene shared to strengthen their marriage. He concluded: “I know what it is to love a daughter of Father in Heaven who with grace and devotion lived the full feminine splendor of her righteous womanhood. I am confident that when, in our future, I see her again beyond the veil, we will recognize that we have become even more deeply in love. We will appreciate each other even more, having spent this time separated by the veil.”¹⁷

Now they are reunited.

From LDS.org's richard G Scott Biography

I think his is a life that speaks of the great blessing it is that we can be together forever with the spouse that we have chosen to marry and be sealed to in this life.  Eternal Marriage is a wonderful gift and one that I am extremely grateful for.

Edited March 3, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[jewels8]

48 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

A little levity to try to lighten this thread up a little.  Please don't take it the wrong way.

I haven't walked in someone else's moccasins but I tried to wear my wife's boots once by accident.  They did not fit.  I did stretch them out a little on the top.  My wife was not happy with that.  Whenever I go to put on my boots now days, she always points out where MY boots are and where HER boots are.  She makes sure I am never going to try to wear her boots again.

She does not feel I need to try to wear her boots to get a better understanding of her.  If anything, if I feel that strongly about wearing her boots, she'll hit me over the head with them before she lets me wear them again!

I personally don't have any desire to find out in regards to the topic.  I'm perfectly happy with my wife as it is.

However, I think that sometimes the commandments we are given are not given because they are easy, but because they are hard.  It's not something I like to think about though. 

I think of course, that you know this.  Your question is rhetorical.  This is not because you LIKE the idea, but you pose the question to make us think about what it is people are talking about, and whether we would find it easy or hard if it really were commanded.  Personally, I do not think it will be something anyone has to worry about being commanded to do in the near future (but I am NOT a fortune teller, I do not know the future, it's just my thoughts that this will not be something people are commanded to do, at least in my lifetime).  I think you ask, because you know that the answer is obviously, it would not be a piece of cake.  At times, what we are asked to do in general is not easy.

A prime example that I have grown to love and appreciate.  My family are not lifelong members of the church.  On the otherhand, my wife's family ARE members all the way back to Joseph Smith.  However, for me, I have no pioneer heritage in my lines.  Gordon B. Hinckley was a prophet in our church and in the late 90s he talked about finding the importance of our Pioneer heritage.  At the time, I had a hard time with that as I did not have a pioneer heritage for me.  How would such a thing apply to me?

I started studying the pioneers though.  They were given a trial by fire (as the phrase goes).  They were to cross the plains and come to the gathering of Saints in the Rocky Mountains.  Not all of them did this.  Those who did had a great deal of suffering.  We find that there are a great many that left family members by the wayside as they travelled.  There were those who came from England, selling all they had to buy passage on ships to come.  Once here, they were penniless, but where helped by the Church to build handcarts which they pushed along the plains.  Almost all the companies that came had some deaths among them, a few had a LARGE amount of death among them, and at times it appeared as if the whole company would perish. 

Even those who came by wagon, especially those who came at first, suffered.  During the first year in Utah they had almost no food.  People were subsisting on scraps and whatever they could find to make it through.  The next few years were still meager years, years of great faith and suffering. 

I have no doubt that they went through a very hard trial.  It was absolutely not a piece of cake. 

I did not have a hard trial, but finding out their sufferings and sacrifices increased my own appreciation of the pioneers.  Because of them, the church exists and the gospel of the Lord continued to be broadcast to the world (and even if they died or refused, the Lord would have found a way, but because of their sacrifice his gospel was allowed to continue in that fashion to us).  Because of them, they had children and from those children was my wife.  I appreciate them for that as well, and also that my children can look back at these pioneers as inspirations of their own ancestors in their lives.

I think the same thing was suffered by those who had to practice polygamy in some instances.  Ironically, many probably thought they had the hardest trial coming over the plains and surviving those first few years in Utah, but we know from some accounts that they found polygamy FAR harder than that.  This tells me that this was a VERY hard commandment for some of them to follow.

I think many righteous people today would have great difficulty.  I think we are blessed today that this is NOT a commandment that we have to follow.  The prophets do not come and tell us who to marry or that we need to marry others.  I am grateful that our day has it so that we can be monogamous and be fully engaged in love for our spouses. 

I believe in eternal marriage and that we will be together forever with our families in the Celestial Kingdom as long as we do what the Lord wants us to do.  It is something I am very grateful for.  I love my wife and the idea that I can be with her forever is a very sweet feeling.

I know that you cherish your family as well, and this is why this feels so important to you.  I think you have pointed out the important things in this thread, that it is our love for our families and for our spouse that is important.  We should love our spouse as Adam loved Eve, or as Lehi loved Sariah, or Richard G. Scott and Jeanene (his wife, I do not believe he ever remarried).

I thought I'd just add this little bit about Richard G. Scott and his wife (she passed away 10 years before he did).

From LDS.org's richard G Scott Biography

I think his is a life that speaks of the great blessing it is that we can be together forever with the spouse that we have chosen to marry and be sealed to in this life.  Eternal Marriage is a wonderful gift and one that I am extremely grateful for.

That is beautiful.  Thank you for sharing.  I always enjoyed Elder Scott's Conference talks.

 

 

[jewels8]

6 hours ago, wenglund said:

Feminist issues can be discussed reasonably with people of opposing views. In fact, such discussions can lead to progress and change.

Such was the case with Cassie Jaye, a once staunch feminist who decided to do a expose documentary on the Men's Rights Movement, only to find her beliefs about feminism and men's rights turned upside down. (See HERE and HERE))

This is how a reasoned discussion on feminist issues looks like:

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Right.  Thank you

[jewels8]

I guess some people did not see my earlier posts of how I took back the offensive things that I had posted about what were my feelings about God ,etc at the time,and of course some don't choose to believe sincerity, but some do choose to believe my sincerity, and I do appreciate that.  I know people can't see into the hearts of each other, but the Holy Ghost can.  If people open up their hearts, then they may be allowed to see.  Christ came into the world to teach a higher law, but much of the world was not ready for it.  The Mosaic Law was taught before he came, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth", even though he came and did away with that, it is still practiced so often today, and He allows it because people are not always willing to follow the higher law.  Of course, we have the higher law too, some of us do, and some of us try to live it, it is a law of charity and love, where mercy is part of it, and not just justice.  The City of Enoch was taken up to heaven .  They lived this law.  Some day, in the millenium, the City of Enoch will return again, when the earth is cleansed and ready for the Lord's 2nd Coming.  The world has a great need for kindness.  One of the last things Pres. Monson admonished us , before he passed away, was to be more kind.  He also admonished us to read The Book of Mormon.

[mirkwood]

On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 6:38 PM, jewels8 said:

No, I don't, I just appreciate a man who treats his wife with respect.

"Refreshing" indicates that you do not see this much.  I would call that a dreary world. 

[The Folk Prophet]

6 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I bolded the part I think is the most important.  One needs to be Bold, but one needs to ensure they are not being bold due to Pride. 

I think that's a strange assumption.

I don't find some sick sense of satisfaction in standing up for truth because it makes me feel superior. I do it because I have covenanted to do so. Whereas I don't deny that I have pride, as all men and women do, that is not my motivation. My pride led me to flee the forum. Standing up for truth and having others despise you for it is not pleasant. Returning is a choice based on a hopeful willingness to put up with that sort of thing because I believe it to be right. Pride may cause me to flee again because it hurts my pride to stand up for truth and then have others come and tell me what a horrible person I am. But pushing past that and fighting the good fight despite the vitriol is not an action of pride.

It might be more valid to suggest that pride seeps into my means at times. But pride is not the "due to" of the matter.

Actually I'm not certain how anyone could believe it's somehow easier to stand up for truth than it is to just be loving and sweet to everyone so they get along all the time. I guess people assume I enjoy it like how some enjoy physical fights or the like. I enjoy intellectual discussions (where there is true intellect), but I do not enjoy anger-filled debates in any regard. They suck.

Trying to stand for truth is a burden.

Edited March 3, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[pam]

One thing @jewels8 that can be rather confusing.  When you quote yourself and then write a response.  It's like you are talking to yourself.  Not sure if you are meaning to do that.  But it can be a bit off putting to some.

[jewels8]

If your hitting the quote button under a post to reply, that is what happens, there really is no other way to do it that makes sense, maybe they need to have better directions, I mean what is more easier then trying to reply under what you are trying to respond to?  I'm not very good with doing something unless it seems obvious and if it seems obvious but doesn't work, then maybe it could be fixed or maybe they should give instructions to the technically impaired.   If I post down below it doesn't seem to help either.  

[jewels8]

Just now, jewels8 said:

If your hitting the quote button under a post to reply, that is what happens, there really is no other way to do it that makes sense, maybe they need to have better directions, I mean what is more easier then trying to reply under what you are trying to respond to?  I'm not very good with doing something unless it seems obvious and if it seems obvious but doesn't work, then maybe it could be fixed or maybe they should give instructions to the technically impaired.   If I post down below it doesn't seem to help either.  

Also, sometimes I put things down and they get moved around , it seems on purpose, which is not my doing

[Vort]

29 minutes ago, jewels8 said:

If your hitting the quote button under a post to reply, that is what happens, there really is no other way to do it that makes sense, maybe they need to have better directions, I mean what is more easier then trying to reply under what you are trying to respond to?  I'm not very good with doing something unless it seems obvious and if it seems obvious but doesn't work, then maybe it could be fixed or maybe they should give instructions to the technically impaired.   If I post down below it doesn't seem to help either.  

Why are you replying to your own posts? You can just write a brand new addition to the thread at the bottom of the page.

[jewels8]

I'm not replying to my posts, I'm replying to someone else's post.  I'm hitting the quote under someone else's post

[pam]

6 minutes ago, jewels8 said:

I'm not replying to my posts, I'm replying to someone else's post.  I'm hitting the quote under someone else's post

I actually think I know what you are talking about now.  It has happened to me.  If I ever went to quote someone in a thread...and then changed my mind...every time I tried to quote another person that same quote that I changed my mind on would keep showing up.  I had to just play with it until I got it to delete so I could quote the right one.  I will send this problem to our tech guy because I know I've had the same problem as well.

[mirkwood]

Start where you would type a response and backspace until it deletes.  That works for me.

 

[lostinwater]

1 hour ago, mirkwood said:

Start where you would type a response and backspace until it deletes.  That works for me.

And all this time i've been trying to figure out a way to highlight and hit delete.  You method also works for nested replies.  Thank-you for saving me a lot of frustration.  

[jewels8]

I'll have to try that , thank you

[jewels8]

I am sorry about some of those things I may have come across in my posts.  I did not say that I didn't have any respect for God, but I did say that I did respect monogomy and those that practice it and it is easier to respect those that do.  However, I do not understand everything.  I do have a testimony of the Gospel   And I do believe it is important to have faith in our Father in Heaven and His plan .  I do believe it is important to be charitable and forgiving. I , of course, pray and talk to Him about things and apologize to Him as needed, but that is a personal thing that I don't have to bring up.  It really is no one's business what my relationship with Him is . It is not something I always focus on or struggle with.  There are many aspects of the Gospel and many aspects of life that fill up my time, really.   I am sorry if I have reacted to those who have attacked me in a way that was unbecoming and in a way that I normally would not be like.  I did not react at first, but anyway, I do believe it is important to give others the same kindness that I wish to receive.  And I do appreciate the kindness I have received.   And it can be easy for people that are generally pretty decent people to over react at times.    It happens.   

     My family attended our Stake Conference together.  Our Stake Patriarch, Rod Merrill, who is also a family doctor, spoke about The Book of Mormon.  He is also a big family history man.  A great man.  He spoke about the Book of Mormon being the Keystone and talked about us pondering its origin.  He talked about how those that oppose the Church cannot discredit  it.  How could Joseph Smith write a 500 plus page book in such a short amount of time with all the eloquent words of King Benjamin's speech, the doctrines of Christ (the name of the Savior is mentioned so many times in its pages), and their is chiasmus throughout the Book of Mormon, their are phrases that are put on refrigerator doors, how could Joseph do this without any notes,  these are messages that live, breathe and inspire, and he did this in 300 and something days?  

         Sister Jane Pulver , from my Stake, spoke about the youth of the Church, and how parents can teach and guide them in these last days.  Moroni saw our day and asked some of the less valiant covenant people of the last days why they were ashamed to take upon them the Gospel of Christ.  She talked about how youth have so many questions with the big decisions of life they face today in these perilous times.  Life is sure not what it was when I was growing up, as much.  I was so sheltered.  There is so much more rampant today that I did not see or know about back then about drugs, fornication, abortion legalizing marijuana, changes of what society accepts as marriage, divorce rates, fatherlessness, higher rates of murder, rapes and suicides, dishonesty, theft, etc.  Sis. Pulver talked about how we need to be able to be there to give the answers to these youth, to be available, to not be afraid to teach them .  We need to have the Spirit, to be informed, to be straight forward.  To teach women to be mothers, to teach the value of education and a career when appropriate, to teach about safety, to teach to obey the commandments, to study our scriptures, to pray, to be temple worthy, to choose wise friends and entertainment.  

     Our Stake President spoke about doing our best, but not overdoing.  He said we learn and grow by "doing just one more:" as in a gym, when developing muscular strength, or endurance.  Doing one more repetition.  It may seem that it is impossible, but in doing so, an athlete becomes stronger.  A spotter, or coach knows this, although, at first, the athlete, may think the coach or spotter does not care and may be asking more of him or her than he or she can give.  But that is not the case, a wise coach or spotter knows this will make them better in the end.  So it is spiritually.  We may be asked to do something in the Church that stretches our spiritual muscles.  We may be asked to fulfill a calling that seems beyond our capabilities or our time constraints.  Of course, we need to be mindful of our health, including mental health and family situation, but we also can grow spiritually and stretch in ways we didn't before.  We can converse with our leaders and pray about anything that we need to.  We need not run faster than we have strength but also need not let Easy Street disguise our best efforts.

     We had the privilege of having Elder Blake M. Roney, of the Seveny, attend our Stake Conference. I was able to meet him and shake his hand.  He complimented our special need son, who is on his service mission, he is such a nice man.  He spoke on forgiveness.  I really liked his talk.  He was so down to earth and kind that it just made me want to be forgiving to everyone. I just love it when people have that Spirit about them.  I just love to feel that way!  I wish I could feel that way all the time.  He spoke about Matthew 25, about the talents.  How one was given 10, one 5 and one 1.  And how life may not seem fair.  They weren't all given the same amount of talents.  But that wasn't the important thing.  Of course 2 of them were productive, increased their talents and were blessed.  The 3rd hid his talent, and it was taken away, he was slothful, and it was given to the one with 10.   He said that life is a test.  When the ward talent show comes, he has nothing.  (bless his heart, I feel the same way)  Some people have many talents.  But we can all show the love of the Lord.  He said our mission on earth has to do with the 2 great commandments:  Love the  Lord, and Love our neighbor.  That is it.  (as a side note, on my mission, there;s the joke, and I don't mean anything by this, but that sisters love people into the Gospel, it just reminded me of that, that's all)  Anyways, we are to lift them  So our opportunity is to bless others.  He said if a  family has sickness, or death,  Yes, its sad, but it doesn't matter in the sense that we have the opportunity to bless others with that.  We can be with our family again.  We can move closer to the Savior and help others to do so inspite of those things.   

        He said the biggest Roadblock to getting closer to the Savior that he has seen is not forgiving others.  He spoke about forgiveness in Matthew 18.  How the servant owed his Master 10,000 talents and the master forgave him.  But then the servant went to his hireling and locked him up for owing him a  small sum.  Then the master came back and punished him for not showing the same kindness.  If we don't forgive others, the Lord won't forgive us.  One time Elder Roney kicked a 'ball"  It stuck to the ground, and to get his "revenge" he kicked it again. Well, it was a medical ball, filled with metal beads, and when he did that, it burst and it really hurt.  When we don't forgive, it hurts us.  When we forgive, it blesses us.  And when we forgive someone who doesn't deserve it, its like we get a coupon in the kingdom.   I really enjoyed his talk and felt like I needed that.  

   I know that this is the Lord's true Church on the earth today.  I know that our Father in Heaven and His Son love us and that Pres. Nelson is his prophet on the earth today.  I know that The Book of Mormon is the word of God.  I know that Joseph Smith is the Prophet of the Restoration.  And I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

[wenglund]

4 hours ago, jewels8 said:

I am sorry about some of those things I may have come across in my posts.  I did not say that I didn't have any respect for God, but I did say that I did respect monogomy and those that practice it and it is easier to respect those that do.  However, I do not understand everything.  I do have a testimony of the Gospel   

You are not alone when it comes to not understanding everything. For some, such as yourself, may not understand whether or why they may have to share their spouse in the eternities. For others, like myself, we may not understand whether or why we don't have a spouse at all during this life.

But, having a testimony of the Gospel is key for both, for it offers peace in understanding that we can trust in God, and all will eventually work for our benefit.

I appreciate you sharing your testimony and enduring the somewhat harsh, but very well intended criticism on this board. Hopefully, we all have been made the better for the experience. I know I have grown from interacting with you.

All the best

Thanks, -Wade ENlgund-

[Rob Osborn]

Im proud of my polygamous heritage. I feel it was the right thing for the time. Many many righteous generations came from those relatoinships. Eternally speaking Im not sure where polygamy fits but I trust the Lord all will work out. It has to right?