truthseaker

Asked not to wear pants to church

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I find it funny that one can be upset at the suggestion of wearing certain attire at church, as if this is such a burden, when the church requires you to stop smoking, drinking alcohol and coffee, pay 10% to the church, and give up a ton of other worldly desires and standards.   Sunday attire seems to be the least of the church's restrictions.

Edited by bytebear

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So after all that, does anyone have any links to what the church officially says about women wearing pants to church? Apart from the one already provided, which I'm happy to take as official but others are saying it is not.  Some are also saying I can wear pants to church, while others suggest that I shouldn't.

Basically, according to the church, I am allowed to wear pants to church or not?

Edited by truthseaker

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8 hours ago, Carborendum said:

That looked great, until I saw that it was scented peppermint.  Mrs. Carb can't stand any kind of mint including peppermint.  She refuses to buy the standard type of candy canes at Christmas time.  She only gets the fruit flavored type.

Now, the link you provided also indicated a citrus scented beard oil.  This is something I believe both of us would like.  But I wonder if it would change the way i perceived flavors if I were smelling citrus all the time.

Can't there be an Old Spice scented beard oil?

I was disappointed myself that there was only the one scent. But I remembered that I came across another shaving store while Christmas shopping this year and was able to find their company's website. So here are some more beard shampoos and conditioners. No Old Spice, I'm sorry to say. I saw more mint, coconut, grapefruit, and kiwi.  https://minimoustachery.com/collections/beard-shampoo-conditioner

3 hours ago, truthseaker said:

Surely it is more appropriate to say 'neat casual dress' rather than 'women wear skirts or dresses'. 

 

To me, neat casual dress says non-ratty jeans and a tee-shirt without any holes or stains. There is actually a wide variety in what different people mean by referring to most dress codes. Just try googling what semi-formal or business casual mean; I've seen the latter defined as both my understanding of neat casual and as the step right below a full business suit. So putting what people actually wear (which is how I understood the quote) seems best for the purpose of setting expectations, which seems to be the context that quote was placed in if you follow the link.

4 hours ago, Jedi_Nephite said:

I'm not quite sure I understand.  You're saying that the implication is that men have a choice to wear something other than pants?  Like what?

We had two or three men in kilts last week and quite a few men in the stake wear lavalavas regularly.

Edited to add that I'm not aware of any official church 'dos and don'ts' list specifically for church dress and am not sure where to start looking for such a thing.

Edited by SilentOne

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No one here (Nebraska) cares. We had a female Gospel Doctrine teacher who wore dress pants for about a year. I never heard anyone say anything to her about it, although she has been wearing dresses the past few months. Two of our last three branch presidents have worn cowboy boots with their suits and we've had young men pass the sacrament in blue dress shirts or black denim pants. No one cares. Well, Brother Jones might, but we all know better than to care what Brother Jones thinks about such things. 

My advice: dress like you're going to meet Jesus for brunch, wherever you think it is He would take you to eat. 

I had a non LDS friend tell me she went to church with one of our coworkers and was very uncomfortable when she showed up and was the only female wearing pants. (There's a religious group in my area (I don't know what) where all the women wear skirts all the time, even at work.) Its my guess that the dress code guidelines were put out there so people coming for the first time might not feel out of place for dressing differently from the majority. Sort of like "we wear pink on Fridays" for people who are concerned about that sort of thing. OP seems not to, which is perfectly fine.

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8 hours ago, truthseaker said:

I find it insulting that a stranger should feel the need to tell me how to dress at church.  I don't like that he can find 'back up' for this idea in church recommendations.  Its pretty simple.

You choose to find it insulting.  That's far different than being insulted.  Choose the Right.

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8 hours ago, truthseaker said:

Perhaps you are looking into it too much.  Some guy told me what I should and shouldn't wear to church when I looked perfectly respectable, he had no right to do that.  I'm angry about it.  I'm even more angry after reading that the LDS church 'recommends' women wear skirts or dresses to church.  I like dresses, I like skirts, I like pants.  As long as I don't look like a hooker I should be able to wear what I like to church without being 'told off' by other church members.

Depending on who he was, he may have had not only the right to do that but the responsibility.  I'm not saying you were right or wrong.  I wasn't there.  I've seen many pairs of pants that wouldn't be acceptable in church.  

I hope that I would just be happy you were in church and not say a word.  It's difficult to judge a situation without the details.  I would suggest you freshen your heart, pray, and continue going to church as you have been with the purpose of lifting yourself up and giving glory to God.  If your dress is truly inappropriate, the Bishop will let you know privately.

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On 3/10/2018 at 7:29 AM, truthseaker said:

It was cold, I wore very nice pants, what is the big deal?

I am wondering where in Australia it is cold this time of year :D

I am sorry you had a negative experience because of this man. As you continue attending you will find it isn't uncommon that people trying to do what they think is the right thing end up causing offense. It has happened to me many times, and I know that I have been on the other side as well.

In my opinion wearing pants to church (without being immodest or rebellious, as is the case you described) isn't going to interfere with your relationship with God. The Church standards can be conservative when compared with Australian culture but the intention is reverence and respect, not control as emphasized in this article.

https://www.lds.org/new-era/2008/11/to-the-point/why-do-women-still-have-to-wear-dresses-or-skirts-in-all-our-meetings?lang=eng

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6 hours ago, Jack said:

I am wondering where in Australia it is cold this time of year :D

I am sorry you had a negative experience because of this man. As you continue attending you will find it isn't uncommon that people trying to do what they think is the right thing end up causing offense. It has happened to me many times, and I know that I have been on the other side as well.

In my opinion wearing pants to church (without being immodest or rebellious, as is the case you described) isn't going to interfere with your relationship with God. The Church standards can be conservative when compared with Australian culture but the intention is reverence and respect, not control as emphasized in this article.

https://www.lds.org/new-era/2008/11/to-the-point/why-do-women-still-have-to-wear-dresses-or-skirts-in-all-our-meetings?lang=eng

LOL Melbourne, 4 seasons in one day - every day - half of them freezing!

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8 hours ago, Grunt said:

You choose to find it insulting.  That's far different than being insulted.  Choose the Right.

Some random guy I don't know coming up to me in a church and telling me I need to wear a dress like its 1950 or something is insulting.  Whats more, I can't even blame him for doing it because the church backs up his standpoint.  Its totally outdated.  And I think I'll choose common sense thank you very much.

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8 hours ago, Grunt said:

Depending on who he was, he may have had not only the right to do that but the responsibility.  I'm not saying you were right or wrong.  I wasn't there.  I've seen many pairs of pants that wouldn't be acceptable in church.  

I hope that I would just be happy you were in church and not say a word.  It's difficult to judge a situation without the details.  I would suggest you freshen your heart, pray, and continue going to church as you have been with the purpose of lifting yourself up and giving glory to God.  If your dress is truly inappropriate, the Bishop will let you know privately.

My pants were loose fitting dress pants, very smart and not revealing at all.  This is the first thing this man has ever said to me.

That's a really good idea, I think I will go and speak to the bishop and tell him I'm not happy about the situation, hopefully he is understanding and approachable.  This man's mouth may be putting off a lot of new members, who knows how many girls he has spoken to like that and they don't come back.  Surely that is not in the best interest of the ward.

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Guest MormonGator
11 minutes ago, truthseaker said:

My pants were loose fitting dress pants, very smart and not revealing at all.  This is the first thing this man has ever said to me.

That's a really good idea, I think I will go and speak to the bishop and tell him I'm not happy about the situation, hopefully he is understanding and approachable.  This man's mouth may be putting off a lot of new members, who knows how many girls he has spoken to like that and they don't come back.  Surely that is not in the best interest of the ward.

I admire you for continuing to go to sacrament. It's so wonderful that you didn't lose the big picture in this. 

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@truthseaker, the next time you attend church, you can ask this same guy or possibly the bishop if visitors are NOT WELCOMED to attend services if they do not conform to this dress code. I doubt very much that either one will say "yes".

You should wear what you are most comfortable in and that you deem appropriate for church. Enjoy the service and the company and ignore the trivial comments.

M.

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1 hour ago, truthseaker said:

My pants were loose fitting dress pants, very smart and not revealing at all.  This is the first thing this man has ever said to me.

That's a really good idea, I think I will go and speak to the bishop and tell him I'm not happy about the situation, hopefully he is understanding and approachable.  This man's mouth may be putting off a lot of new members, who knows how many girls he has spoken to like that and they don't come back.  Surely that is not in the best interest of the ward.

Talking to the bishop about this is a good move.

And yes, I've worn pants to church (whenever the laundry blackhole eats my one skirt... which isn't a rare occurrence...).  No one's ever given my guff about it, and no one should to you or anyone else.  

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That link from earlier is not a recommendation, it is information. As a missionary, I was asked many times, "what do I wear to church/activity?" People are not familiar with our church so they want to know what to wear. Just like if you were invited to a party or a work function, you might ask, "what's the dress?" Notice the structure and language in that link, for the whole thing, not just the dress....it's explaining what to expect. Men do generally wear suits/ties to church and women, generally, do wear dresses/skirts. Some people might feel uncomfortable not knowing what to expect, so they dress casually then find out that in general, LDS services are not casual dress. That doesn't mean that you won't find men in clothes other than suit/tie or won't find women wearing something other than dress/skirts. It means that for the most part, the majority of the congregants wear suits/ties or dresses/skirts.

BTW, I'm not aware of any guidebook or leadership manual that actually instructs us to tell people to wear suits/ties or dresses/skirts. Again, I know that it says for us to wear "Sunday best," but they leave that to the individual to interpret. And the closest I can think of was Elder Holland's talk a few years ago (but even then I believe he said to not be Pharisaical about it).

Talking to the bishop is a very wise course. If someone is speaking to another member in such a way (without authority), then the bishop is the one to take care of the issue. My advice would be to speak to the bishop. Be honest with him but also listen to him. And then let it go. Allow others to be human, make mistakes, and do the best they can in this life and church, do your best to forgive, and just learn from the experience. I know I've said some really dumb things to people in my lifetime (in or out of church) or made decisions that I thought were correct only later to learn it probably wasn't the best decision. I've always appreciated people who love and forgive me despite my own stupidity, ignorance, or learning curve.

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On 3/10/2018 at 2:50 PM, Carborendum said:

Today I have a different problem.  Mrs. Carb refuses to kiss me because she says that my hairs are like steel wires tearing into her flesh.  Remember I'm Asian with very coarse black hairs.  Is there some conditioner or something that will soften the hairs somewhat to provide more comfort to my wife's face?

Not sure how well it will work on coarser hair, but I've had good luck with (just a tiny bit of) Downy fabric softener.  Sort of an accidental discovery one day when I was out of conditioner and couldn't get my hair to cooperate, then later tried it on my beard with good results.

DO NOT GET IT IN YOUR MOUTH.  Work in a few drops, then wipe a time or two with a damp cloth to make sure there's no excess left.

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On 3/10/2018 at 5:29 PM, NeuroTypical said:

Well, you can always rub engine oil and bacon grease into your beard for that extra-manly scent.

Hoppes Number 9 gun cleaner.  Also helps prevent carbon buildup.  (And oddly, is one of the harshest things on the planet that doesn't irritate my skin in the least.)

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On 3/10/2018 at 8:17 PM, Jedi_Nephite said:

I'm not quite sure I understand.  You're saying that the implication is that men have a choice to wear something other than pants?  Like what?

Formal kilt?  Semi-formal kilt?  Kimono?  Sarong?  Tupenu?  Knee length tunic?  Plenty of cultures have other things besides pants for men.

Edited by NightSG

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3 hours ago, NightSG said:

Have you talked to your bishop about this?  How can you expect to be accepted by the Lord if you don't learn to be a sanctimonious twit?

I’m silently waiting to become Bishop so I can reveal my orthodox agenda, enforce linger longer EVERY Sabbath, and exchange the pianist for a bagpipe band   

 

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@truthseaker I saw your earlier question and I wanted to post an answer for you. This is from the Church's "For the Strength of Youth" pamphlet which, while it is written for teens, does state the Church's official stance on what men and woman should wear. As long as it's modest, and in the case of church whatever your Sunday best is, you are fine. It does not say women have to wear dresses or skirts. Wearing a dress to church for women used to be the norm, per the older rules that were posted earlier, and for many women it still is, but as long as what you are wearing is nice, there really is nothing to worry about. As you can see, the only guidance we get is what not to wear and it's exclusively immodest clothing it doesn't say all women must wear dresses ☺. Quote follows "

Your body is sacred. Respect it and do not defile it in any way. Through your dress and appearance, you can show that you know how precious your body is. You can show that you are a disciple of Jesus Christ and that you love Him.

FTSOY-Dress-Appearance-inline-2011-11-29

Prophets of God have continually counseled His children to dress modestly. When you are well groomed and modestly dressed, you invite the companionship of the Spirit and you can be a good influence on others. Your dress and grooming influence the way you and others act.

Never lower your standards of dress. Do not use a special occasion as an excuse to be immodest. When you dress immodestly, you send a message that is contrary to your identity as a son or daughter of God. You also send the message that you are using your body to get attention and approval.

HIDE

Immodest clothing is any clothing that is tight, sheer, or revealing in any other manner. Young women should avoid short shorts and short skirts, shirts that do not cover the stomach, and clothing that does not cover the shoulders or is low-cut in the front or the back. Young men should also maintain modesty in their appearance. Young men and young women should be neat and clean and avoid being extreme or inappropriately casual in clothing, hairstyle, and behavior. They should choose appropriately modest apparel when participating in sports. The fashions of the world will change, but the Lord’s standards will not change.

Do not disfigure yourself with tattoos or body piercings. Young women, if you desire to have your ears pierced, wear only one pair of earrings.

Show respect for the Lord and yourself by dressing appropriately for Church meetings and activities. This is especially important when attending sacrament services. Young men should dress with dignity when officiating in the ordinance of the sacrament.

If you are not sure what is appropriate to wear, study the words of the prophets, pray for guidance, and ask your parents or leaders for help. Your dress and appearance now will help you prepare for the time when you will go to the temple to make sacred covenants with God. Ask yourself, “Would I feel comfortable with my appearance if I were in the Lord’s presence?"

Edited by Midwest LDS

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In fact the church recently updated the dress standards for it's employees as well, and changed the requirements for it's female employees to allow them to wear pantsuits in addition to dresses or skirts. Fashion rules, other than wearing modest and non revealing clothing, really aren't laid out in stone for members because fashion changes constantly @truthseaker I wouldn't get too worried about it, just come to church wearing whatever your Sunday best is. 

Edited by Midwest LDS

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