Long Hair and Beard Discrimination in Utah

[solsolaire]

LDS member here: I never had problems with my hair while living in CA and attending church there. The people are very open and non-judgmental. Moved to UT on the 17th of June (2018) and I am kinda in shock at the level of disrespect I receive; awkward stares, people telling me to cut my hair, at church I was listening to someone speak and he happened to mention how only losers have long hair. My grandma is 100% Choctaw and my grandpa half on my dad side of the family. Kept my hair long out of respect for my ancestors and seems these days its common hairs style so I just don't understand how a supposed christian people can be so judgmental about appearances and make wholesale assumptions about people solely based on how they look.   
I always make the argument that Christ wore his hair long and had a beard; I always get the same response "that was a different time". REALLY!? So if Christ should up today he would look like a high pressure sales men with short cut hair, clean shaven with a suit!? HA HA HA HA! Makes me laugh just thinking about how ridiculous that sounds. If anything I picture the Antichrist very much looking business class not Jesus. 

[NeuroTypical]

Hi and welcome solsolaire!

You seem to be encountering what some of us call "unrighteously judgmental mormon nastiness from Utah mormons who ought to know better".  Whether it actually exists or not, or the extent to how endemic it is,  is up to some debate.  Some folks get ruffled feathers about the subject in general.

I'm on the side of "I know exactly what you're talking about, brother, and I'm happier here in Colorado."  That said, we have our share of judgmental busybodies here too.  A few years ago, a lady got up to bear her testimony about how fat people need to stop breaking the word of wisdom.  

Anyway, although we might argue about how prevalent it is, obviously it exists.  The church is a hospital for sinners, not a showroom for perfect saints.  It's just that some people prefer to sin in ways that include telling you about your level of righteousness.  Try to forgive them.  I mean, what else are you going to do?  Judge them unrighteously back?  Like that'll fix 'em or show 'em or something?

Edited June 23, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[Guest MormonGator]

I have long hair and a beard too my brother. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. Keep your head up, I'm praying for you! 

It's a tough situation for us sometimes. What can be frustrating is that some members (key word, some) don't understand that how they treat people matters-if you treat people disrespectfully, you shouldn't ask yourself why church activity rates are so low. 

Edited June 23, 2018 by MormonGator

[Overwatch]

1 hour ago, solsolaire said:

LDS member here: I never had problems with my hair while living in CA and attending church there. The people are very open and non-judgmental. Moved to UT on the 17th of June (2018) and I am kinda in shock at the level of disrespect I receive; awkward stares, people telling me to cut my hair, at church I was listening to someone speak and he happened to mention how only losers have long hair. My grandma is 100% Choctaw and my grandpa half on my dad side of the family. Kept my hair long out of respect for my ancestors and seems these days its common hairs style so I just don't understand how a supposed christian people can be so judgmental about appearances and make wholesale assumptions about people solely based on how they look.   
I always make the argument that Christ wore his hair long and had a beard; I always get the same response "that was a different time". REALLY!? So if Christ should up today he would look like a high pressure sales men with short cut hair, clean shaven with a suit!? HA HA HA HA! Makes me laugh just thinking about how ridiculous that sounds. If anything I picture the Antichrist very much looking business class not Jesus. 

I think having short hair only applies to temple workers and missionaries. Rock the long hair and beard. I think the rule came about during the 60s where the rebellious hippies were all about the long hair and beard, so the church made it a standard to be clean shaven and have short hair. I believe it was later only kept for those serving in official church capacities like temple and mission field.  

[Sunday21]

@solsolaire Welcome! I have had a bearded bishop.

Ignore the petty minded creatures. Feel like moving to 🇨🇦? I swear that no one at church will disapprove of your fashion choices.  

[solsolaire]

I live in Orem UT so I hear its a little more old school here; they want to keep it that way. I like the idea @NeuroTypical stated that "The church is a hospital for sinners, not a showroom for perfect saints". I was expecting to much from people. Got to remember people are still people just because someone goes to church that doesn't make them a good person. I also have to keep in mind Humboldt county where I came from is radically different than Orem UT. For one there are a lot more native Americans there so its less of thing to see a guy with excessively long hair. 

[BJ64]

I’m in Idaho which is essentially the same as Utah. I often have my hair a little bit long, touching my collar and a little over my ears. I’ve often had comments on needing a haircut. 

A man in our ward had his hair a little long and got angry that people at church would tell him he needed a haircut so he grew it out down past his shoulders in defiance. 

The sister and brother in law of a lady in our ward came for a visit. The husband had long hair. He and his dad and brother decided they would not cut their hair until next spring for whatever reason. The lady from our ward told me and my wife that another woman from our ward asked her how her sister’s marriage was. She asked why she would ask this. The only her lady said that since the husband had long hair she figured the couple was about to get a divorce. 

Its amazing how nosy and judgmental people can be. 

What I don’t like is the double standard. Women can style their hair any way they want and have it any length they want and nobody says a thing but if a man doesn’t have a missionary haircut he is judged to be evil or rebellious. If men can’t have long hair then women shouldn’t be able to have short hair. 

[zil]

20 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

Women can style their hair any way they want

Not really.  If I want a buzz cut or to shave my head, people will probably assume I'm a lesbian, or had cancer, or some such thing.  Both men and women are bound by community appearance standards - it's just that longer hair appears to allow more variety, but women still can't do hair "any way they want" without experiencing other people's negative reactions - which is really your point - because anyone can do whatever they want with their hair, but they don't get to control other people's reactions to what they do.

[Sunday21]

Mind currently boggling. Let me get this straight, a man goes to church and what happens? He is introducing himself as a new member in the foyer and while saying, ‘Hi. I am new in this ward’ . Someone says, Welcome to the ward! You should cut your hair’. 

I just can’t imagine how someone could tell a new member in the ward to change their appearance in any way. 

I (okay I am not proud of this) was having a really miserable time in my life so to streamline things, I bought two identical church outfits and wore them interchangeably for about six months (and doing so was very helpful so there!). Only one person mentioned anything to me, but it took 6 months, and the poor sister now inactive seems to have a personality disorder.

Surely anyone going to church, any church including ones in which you wrestle snakes, knows that making personal remarks about somone’s appearance is unwelcome. Not just unwelcome but contrary to the stated goals of the lds church. How could this happen?

Anyway, when I retire..long way off..I have to go to Utah and meet these weird lds people! Where is a good location for viewing this type of behaviour?

Edited June 23, 2018 by Sunday21

[BJ64]

40 minutes ago, zil said:

Not really.  If I want a buzz cut or to shave my head, people will probably assume I'm a lesbian, or had cancer, or some such thing.  Both men and women are bound by community appearance standards - it's just that longer hair appears to allow more variety, but women still can't do hair "any way they want" without experiencing other people's negative reactions - which is really your point - because anyone can do whatever they want with their hair, but they don't get to control other people's reactions to what they do.

Yes it would be frowned on for a woman to shave her head or dye her hair green but other than this sort of extreme style she is free to do what she wants. 

I also don’t understand why it’s okay for men to shave their head. That looks more extreme than long hair to me. A man with a shaved head looks like a thug to me yet it is very popular. 

[Fether]

I don’t know if any commandment from anyon If importance dictating rules on hair style beyond more than the commandment to be modest. Which as we know modesty means different things for men and women so why would that not extend toward hair.

[Guest MormonGator]

We need to focus more on getting people to come to church. Nagging them about their appearance can come later. 

[Sunday21]

14 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

We need to focus more on getting people to come to church. Nagging them about their appearance can come later. 

Why nag someone about their appearance? I find this mystifying. Is there need to monitor a man’s appearance because there is a requirement to have enough properly dressed men to pass the sacrament? What’s going on?

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Why nag someone about their appearance? I find this mystifying. Is there need to monitor a man’s appearance because there is a requirement to have enough properly dressed men to pass the sacrament? What’s going on?

Right, I agree. I was being sarcastic. We shouldn't be nagging people at all about their appearance. Instead we should be happy that people of all types are actually coming to church. 

[Midwest LDS]

23 hours ago, solsolaire said:

LDS member here: I never had problems with my hair while living in CA and attending church there. The people are very open and non-judgmental. Moved to UT on the 17th of June (2018) and I am kinda in shock at the level of disrespect I receive; awkward stares, people telling me to cut my hair, at church I was listening to someone speak and he happened to mention how only losers have long hair. My grandma is 100% Choctaw and my grandpa half on my dad side of the family. Kept my hair long out of respect for my ancestors and seems these days its common hairs style so I just don't understand how a supposed christian people can be so judgmental about appearances and make wholesale assumptions about people solely based on how they look.   
I always make the argument that Christ wore his hair long and had a beard; I always get the same response "that was a different time". REALLY!? So if Christ should up today he would look like a high pressure sales men with short cut hair, clean shaven with a suit!? HA HA HA HA! Makes me laugh just thinking about how ridiculous that sounds. If anything I picture the Antichrist very much looking business class not Jesus. 

Sorry you were dealing with that brother. I'm almost positive this is a holdover from the 60's and 70's when beards and long hair were signs of rebellion in a way they aren't now. After all, some of our early prophets had awesome beards (Joseph F. Smith and Brother Brigham had especially great ones) and, as you point out, the Savior himself does in all our depictions of Him as well. Keep your chin up though, you'll run into imperfect members wherever you go and at the end of the day, we go to church for our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. As long as They are happy with us, the rest is just noise☺.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Midwest LDS

[Guest MormonGator]

10 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

 we go to church for our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. As long as They are happy with us, the rest is just noise☺.

Perfectly said. Thanks @Midwest LDS

[Backroads]

Husband is growing out his beard and hair--the hair into this sides-shaved Viking sort of thing. Part of me rolls my eyes at it while figuring it's his hair, part of me thinks it's sexy. 

 

Then again, we're in the Ogden vicinity, which is the Sin City of Utah, so...

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Backroads

[mordorbund]

On 6/22/2018 at 8:55 PM, MormonGator said:

I have long hair and a beard too my brother.

Yup. MG tried to grow out his beard so he could finally have hair on his chest. When it came in patchy, he had to use his (head) hair as a backup.

 

*Just a gentle ribbing. If it seems like a slam that's only because gators are so close to the ground.

[pwrfrk]

On 6/22/2018 at 5:33 PM, solsolaire said:

LDS member here...moved to UT on the 17th of June (2018)...and I am kinda in shock at the level of disrespect I receive...awkward stares...people telling me to cut my hair...at church I was listening to someone speak and he happened to mention how only losers have long hair. My grandma is 100% Choctaw and my grandpa half on my dad side of the family. Kept my hair long out of respect for my ancestors and seems these days its common hairs style so I just don't understand how a supposed christian people can be so judgmental about appearances and make wholesale assumptions about people solely based on how they look.   
 

Welcome to Utah.  I dunno.  You must have done something else.  To be here that short of time frame and have that many problems?  I dunno.

Don't worry about people judging you.  If anything they are judging themselves to Jesus. 

[anatess2]

On 6/23/2018 at 6:03 PM, BJ64 said:

I also don’t understand why it’s okay for men to shave their head. That looks more extreme than long hair to me. A man with a shaved head looks like a thug to me yet it is very popular. 

That's easy.  A lot of men are plagued with receding hairlines or Jackson 5 hair.  Unless you pay $$$ for some Apollo System or Beyonce straighteners, it is best to just shave the thing off.

[anatess2]

On 6/22/2018 at 7:33 PM, solsolaire said:

LDS member here: I never had problems with my hair while living in CA and attending church there.

I'm thinking about my ward in Florida and thinking... I've never seen any guy with long hair there.  Beard, yes - it has become a thing - but not long hair.  I wonder what they'd say too.  But then I'm thinking... we just got a member with full sleeve tattoos on both arms, I'm sure long hair won't shock anybody anymore.

In any case, if that's you on your Avatar picture, you're very good-looking.  Are you single?  I have several Catholic nieces I'm trying to marry off so they'd hopefully become LDS and there'd be more than just me and my aunt-3x-removed who are LDS in my family.    

 

 

 

Oh, and they also need visas. 

 

[BJ64]

9 hours ago, anatess2 said:

That's easy.  A lot of men are plagued with receding hairlines or Jackson 5 hair.  Unless you pay $$$ for some Apollo System or Beyonce straighteners, it is best to just shave the thing off.

I have a receding hairline but I’m not going to shave my head. You can’t conceal baldness by shaving your head. Lest anyone think that church leadership is totally okay with men shaving their heads I will point out that it is against the grooming standards for BYU and BYU Idaho. Interestingly though the current president of BYU Idaho, President Erying is aparently naturally totally bald. Therefore as president of BYU Idaho he can sport the shaved head look but it’s against the rules for students to mimic his look. Seems strange to me. 

[Vort]

As a child, I had it drilled into me that we should never judge by appearances. So I didn't. And I found myself surprised again and again when the biker-looking dude with tattoos and wearing leather would be a profane, violent bully, or when the girl who dressed in short, tight-fitting outfit turned out to be on the make. After many long years of painful naivete, I finally figured out that the way people choose to look is often a pretty good indicator of the way they choose to act and want to be perceived.

This doesn't justify Oremites in their shameless persecution of the more hair-blessed. But it's interesting (to me, at least) to wonder exactly what those judgmental people think when they see a man with long hair. What does that represent to them? Defiance of legitimate authority? Prideful desire to stand out? Excessive effeminacy? What would move a person to engage in personal criticism toward a visitor or new neighbor?

I do not condone such judgmentalism. I think it's ignorant at best, Pharisaical at worst. But I remember my own painful naivete, and I wonder if such people might not sense something that I in my youth was too blind and simple to see. I have also seen cases where people were accused of judgmentalism when in fact there was no such judgmentalism on display, just too-sensitive souls eager to claim victim status. I have been that falsely accused person on more than one occasion. So I won't rush to judgment against the judgmental, at least in this case.

[NeuroTypical]

Pearl of wisdom from my streetwise wife: It is possible sometimes to judge by appearances, you just have to be about twice as good at it, and four times as knowledgeable as you are now.  Many people dress in order to send a message.  The message is not sent in English.  The words are there - but in appearance, body language, facial expression.  If you have the right tools and experience, you can often tell by asking a few questions.

Are the tats a sign of who you emulate, who you are trying to be, or who you are?  There's a difference between the wanna-be gangbanger's marks, the thing that you hope will make you look sexy, and the Marine tattoo. 

Is the hair a sign of adherence to something or rejection of something?  As the OP states, what passes as normal in Humboldt County sticks out in Provo.

We Mormons tend to be wary of such things, and yet look at us and our avatars on this forum - we're doing it!

[BJ64]

Here is an excerpt of a speech given by Dallin H. Oaks then president if BYU in 1971 explaining grooming standards at BYU. I think it basically explains the church’s stance against long hair and beards.  

Note that the rule is still the same 47 years later.

“The rule against beards and long hair for men stands on a different footing. I am weary of having young people tell me how most of our Church leaders in earlier times wore beards and long hair, which shows that these are not inherently evil. Others argue that beards cannot be evil because they see bearded men enjoying the privileges of the temple. To me, this proposition seems so obvious that it is hardly worth mentioning. Unlike modesty, which is an eternal value in the sense of rightness or wrongness in the eyes of God, our rules against beards and long hair are contemporary and pragmatic. They are responsive to conditions and attitudes in our own society at this particular point in time. Historical precedents are worthless in this area. The rules are subject to change, and I would be surprised if they were not changed at some time in the future. But the rules are with us now, and it is therefore important to understand the reasoning behind them.

There is nothing inherently wrong about long hair or beards, any more than there is anything inherently wrong with possessing an empty liquor bottle. But a person with a beard or an empty liquor bottle is susceptible of being misunderstood. Either of these articles may reduce a person’s effectiveness and promote misunderstanding because of what people may reasonably conclude when they view them in proximity to what these articles stand for in our society today.

In the minds of most people at this time, the beard and long hair are associated with protest, revolution, and rebellion against authority. They are also symbols of the hippie and drug culture. Persons who wear beards or long hair, whether they desire it or not, may identify themselves with or emulate and honor the drug culture or the extreme practices of those who have made slovenly appearance a badge of protest and dissent. In addition, unkemptness—which is often (though not always) associated with beards and long hair—is a mark of indifference toward the best in life. As Elder Sterling W. Sill has observed:

“A let-down in personal appearance has far more than physical significance, for when ugliness gets its roots into one part of our lives it may soon spread to every other part.” “