Openmind

Revelation that separates spouses

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Just now, Openmind said:

Honestly if this was pornography I would want him disconnected. No phone at all.  We have a home phone to be contacted through, he has a phone at work. Even though I couldn't stop his access to the internet at work I could here at home.

Those photos ARE porn for him.  Fodder for his affair.  

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2 minutes ago, Vort said:

Do you know this to be the case? Or do you know only that someone has claimed it to be so?

Perhaps it's just my own interpretation, then. Things like the following strike me as encouraging anger and hatred:

Note the editorialization highlighted above. This is not cool rationality probing a situation. This is anger and lashing out.

(And please note: Something cannot simultaneously be an "emotional affair" and "stalking". The former suggests a two-way arrangement, while the latter implies one-way only.)

It's going well beyond that, JD.

You and I are just going to have to disagree here Vort.  

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36 minutes ago, Openmind said:

I can tell "vort" that my husband would say I have violated his trust by even seeking help outside of our marriage(by posting my problem). He has already made it abundantly clear that I am not to speak of this to anyone, and I mean anyone. He doesn't even want to discuss it in our home because of the risk of our children hearing.

Your husband can say and feel what he chooses to say and feel. You have the right to discuss things of importance with your bishop, and you have the right to discuss your concerns with your Relief Society president. If he wishes to talk to his bishop or quorum president, he's welcome to do so.

In general, I'm a huge fan of husband and wife keeping their problems and dirty laundry very strictly within their own bedroom. I think such problems should rarely if ever be shared among family and friends, and since women are more likely to do this than men, this injunction applies more often to women. But in a case such as this, outside perspective is needed.

You're a grown-up. Your husband can make his desires known, but he can't stop you from talking with your bishop or Relief Society president (or anyone else, for that matter). If what you say is true (and I expect it is), your husband is traveling down a very dangerous slope at high speed, and his actions will result in great pain and probable tragedy for himself, you, and your children. I'd say you're fully justified in talking to a leader and getting some help.

I would suggest you contact someone else today. Like, pick up the phone right now and call your bishop. Maybe he can see you this evening. That's my advice.

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I'm sorry this is happening.  It's unfair that you have to deal with it.  But you do.

Make sure your eyes are as open as your mind.

You keep saying you love him.  Do you love your children and yourself?  It's a really important question.

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My take:

Whether the revelation is real or fake doesn't matter.  The revelation is for him.  The wife has not received such (you can ask God yourself to confirm a revelation that affects you directly).  Therefore, the wife can only act upon her own revelation.

The wife cannot control the actions/thoughts of the husband.  She can only control how she reacts to it.  

This is my advice on ways she can react to it:

1.)  Tell the husband you haven't received such revelation and, therefore, you cannot approve of such a wife.  In the commandment for multiple marriages, the first wife has the power to approve or reject a 2nd wife by God's revelation to the wife herself.

2.) Tell the husband that because you haven't received such revelation, you're going to consider his emotional attachment to this other woman as a transgression on your Marital Covenant.  It is therefore imperative that he either speaks to his bishop himself or you talk to the bishop together.  In any case, you are going to talk to the bishop about it to get his advice/blessing through his special priesthood keys over the power of discernment.

3.) Tell him that as your wife, you want access to the encrypted file to make sure he is not headed down the path of destruction.

4.) Tell him that you want him to see a mental health professional to deal with his feelings of isolation or depression.  Tell him you'll go with him if he needs you to.

5.)  Continue being a good and loving wife to your husband and a good and loving mother to your children.

No need for too much drama.

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Here is what I have done...

We spoke for 4 days with very little sleep and almost no food when he was confronted with my knowledge of his emotional attachment to this woman on his side. (Let me make it clear, she has no knowledge of anything.)

During the entire time, my husband never varied from his claims. I was able to clearly see that he truly believes all of it. He just refuses to see how it affects us and our relationship now, here, on this earth.

He told and tells me my fears are irrational, as his feelings are "pure" love for her as his special friend from the preexistence and as his wife in the eternities and that he has no physical desire for her. He fully believes this.

He says that getting information about her (including all [not just some] of her pictures) was necessary for him to decide if said revelation was from god or not. He had to "study it out". 

He says he has been praying about it and the joy and hope and love he is feeling "in his heart" are so intense that he just can't even think it is not true without questioning everything else he knows to be true.

It took me two full days of this time to convince him not to even approach her about being a special friend in the preexistence. The *only* arguement I could get through to him was that he would probably be seen as some kind if weirdo going up to a woman who is very new to our area, younger, single, and not staying for an extended time, and saying "I think we knew each other in the preexistence and that we were more than just friends, that we were especially close, and loved each other deeply".

I tried everything else I could think of to convince him otherwise.

During that four days, I cried, I prayed, I fasted, I tried to see it his way, I tried to accept that it could be truth(even though he was wanting to take action on it by having me keep tabs on her for him, and by his giving love to her now, here and not waiting for the eternities).

He knows I don't understand it. Because I don't. 

He says I am hardhearted, that I am being selfish, that him not seeking out that friendship here(mortality) could damage his friendship with her there(eternity) as his wife.

I'll  admit when we went to church I was very uncharitable in my thoughts when I heard that she had hurt her ankle within the few days before church. I asked for a blessing from my bishop before church without my husband's knowledge to deal with those feelings of lack of charity. I felt unworthy to take the sacrament because of my feelings towards her until I got the blessing and prayed for forgiveness for feeling such.

I am trying to see clearly.  My children know something is different, they say daddy is happy, but yet not really here. They see his distraction and wonder at it.

 

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4 minutes ago, Openmind said:

Here is what I have done...

We spoke for 4 days with very little sleep and almost no food when he was confronted with my knowledge of his emotional attachment to this woman on his side. (Let me make it clear, she has no knowledge of anything.)

During the entire time, my husband never varied from his claims. I was able to clearly see that he truly believes all of it. He just refuses to see how it affects us and our relationship now, here, on this earth.

He told and tells me my fears are irrational, as his feelings are "pure" love for her as his special friend from the preexistence and as his wife in the eternities and that he has no physical desire for her. He fully believes this.

He says that getting information about her (including all [not just some] of her pictures) was necessary for him to decide if said revelation was from god or not. He had to "study it out". 

He says he has been praying about it and the joy and hope and love he is feeling "in his heart" are so intense that he just can't even think it is not true without questioning everything else he knows to be true.

It took me two full days of this time to convince him not to even approach her about being a special friend in the preexistence. The *only* arguement I could get through to him was that he would probably be seen as some kind if weirdo going up to a woman who is very new to our area, younger, single, and not staying for an extended time, and saying "I think we knew each other in the preexistence and that we were more than just friends, that we were especially close, and loved each other deeply".

I tried everything else I could think of to convince him otherwise.

During that four days, I cried, I prayed, I fasted, I tried to see it his way, I tried to accept that it could be truth(even though he was wanting to take action on it by having me keep tabs on her for him, and by his giving love to her now, here and not waiting for the eternities).

He knows I don't understand it. Because I don't. 

He says I am hardhearted, that I am being selfish, that him not seeking out that friendship here(mortality) could damage his friendship with her there(eternity) as his wife.

I'll  admit when we went to church I was very uncharitable in my thoughts when I heard that she had hurt her ankle within the few days before church. I asked for a blessing from my bishop before church without my husband's knowledge to deal with those feelings of lack of charity. I felt unworthy to take the sacrament because of my feelings towards her until I got the blessing and prayed for forgiveness for feeling such.

I am trying to see clearly.  My children know something is different, they say daddy is happy, but yet not really here. They see his distraction and wonder at it.

Based on what you write above, your husband doesn't sound...well...well. Something is wrong. Maybe it's spiritual, maybe it's emotional, maybe it's cranial. I think @anatess2's advice is as good as any yet given on this thread.

Go talk to your bishop.

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18 minutes ago, Openmind said:

I am trying to see clearly. 

Your husband refuses to seek the medical help he needs.  He is having an emotional affair and stalking another woman.  He is justifying this sin by saying "it's revelation" and doesn't care that you're no ok with it.  Instead he gas lights you about it ("you're selfish", "your hard hearted", etc) and to not tell anyone.  

Do you love yourself Openmind?

Do you love your children?

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What do I say "I think my husband's loonie"? That I feel he has committed sin. (Would that be unrighteously judging if his "revelation" is true?)

Would they just say that I am paranoid?That there's no way this could be true about him? That I am just seeking revenge for the pain and embarrassment (even if no one else knows anything) I feel he caused me?

Would he ever forgive me for "turning him in"?

You see my hesitation??

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To me it's not whether or not the "revelation" is true, it's his reaction to it: secrecy, hiding(he even started taking his phone in the bathroom which he always expressed disgust about before), making secret notes about it all(I am for privacy and have never before wanted to see his personal journaling as I feel everyone needs a personal space to sort things out, but this part of it he did encrypt, not the rest), expressing verbally and in his face love for her however "pure" it claims to be.

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9 minutes ago, Openmind said:

Would they just say that I am paranoid?That there's no way this could be true about him? That I am just seeking revenge for the pain and embarrassment (even if no one else knows anything) I feel he caused me?

Would he ever forgive me for "turning him in"?

You see my hesitation??

Yes, I see your hesitation, but it's coming from a place of fear & abuse.  Not rationality or faith.  Looking at things rationally:

Again, it doesn't matter if this is a true revelation or not.

Nobody is going to say that your are paranoid for being upset that you husband is having an emotional affair.  You seeking help is not revenge.

He has zero grounds to be angry at your for seeking help.  If he does get angry (and he likely will), he is not justified in such.

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7 minutes ago, Openmind said:

What do I say "I think my husband's loonie"? That I feel he has committed sin. (Would that be unrighteously judging if his "revelation" is true?)

 

His personal revelation is not binding on you... If the Lord wanted you to follow it he would tell you.  His actions after the 'revealtion' are sinful because they are damaging and hurting his covenant wife (aka you)  You are not judging his revelation you are judging the fruits of his actions and that can be justified as a righteous (though limited) judgement.

 

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54 minutes ago, Openmind said:

his feelings are "pure"

Pure would love the light, not hide in the dark (encrypted files), not forbid disclosure to the Bishop.  IMO, it is this "keeping secret" business that is the red flag - I cannot find a way to believe innocence so long as encryption and "no one else must ever know" are in play.

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I agree with Jane_Doe.  Based on what you have said here, your husband behavior is abusive, and gas-lighting to you.  He is also stalking this young woman and appears to be lusting after her in his heart.  

When you two married, you covenanted to love him, and basically to help him return to our Heavenly Parents.  The best thing you can do to help him and yourself right now is talk to your Bishop.  Just tell him like you told us, "My husband believes he got revelation about . . . "   

Talking to the Bishop is, I think, the best thing you can do for him, for yourself, and for your children.  

Edited by LiterateParakeet

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5 minutes ago, Openmind said:

His no one else knowing is based on this: sacred things should be kept sacred,  dont throw pearls before swine...

At least that's what he says. (I do agree with sacredness and pearls)

Crap.  The two of you are to be one.  The encrypted file and private trips to the bathroom with his cell phone (ahem) are not the two of you being one.

Do what @anatess2 said!

Edited by zil

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Thank you all...I know it's hard to help people when you have only one side, I have tried to give you his side as much as possible from his own words and actions. I know it's hard to deal with and I feel ashamed that I have to deal with it directly. Please accept my Gratitude for ALL your help in sorting this out. My original purpose in posting was so that anyone else dealing with similar questions could find an acceptable path in dealing with this sort of issue. Now I know that my posting helped me too. Thank you so much!

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Here are the cold hard revealed facts.

Polygamy is currently not practiced by command of the Lord

If that were to change that would come from the Prophet of God.. Not to your husband because he does not have the keys to the Sealing Power.

Your Husband is currently married (Sealed too I am assuming) and the Lord expects him to honor those covenants with complete faithfulness.

Thus by the Revealed Word of God he has no grounds to act in anyway on his "personal revelation" that does not bring him into imminent conflict with other Revealed Words of God.

He is taking action... thus violating the commands of God in one way or another.

As for holding things sacred..  One holds the revelation sacred and he has already told you that, his actions are not sacred and have no cover.

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Guest Mores
44 minutes ago, Openmind said:

What do I say "I think my husband's loonie"? That I feel he has committed sin.

Yes.  He's a loon.  He has committed sin.

44 minutes ago, Openmind said:

(Would that be unrighteously judging if his "revelation" is true?)

If.

44 minutes ago, Openmind said:

Would they just say that I am paranoid?That there's no way this could be true about him? That I am just seeking revenge for the pain and embarrassment (even if no one else knows anything) I feel he caused me?

I can't predict what people will say about something they've never heard.  Neither can anyone else here.  But most people hearing this would wonder how on earth he got these ideas into his head.  This is just plain weird.  And if he has a really good reputation in the ward, many might be prone to disbelief.  But that doesn't really matter.  YOU need to be sane.  Be SANE and together when you tell anyone about it.  If you're really emotional or stressed or... then you'll sound crazy yourself.

But if you approach it very calmly as if you're simply "confused" by something that "doesn't sound right" and ask for help "figuring it out" then there will be greater chances of belief.  But be firm if they simply say that you "just misunderstood what he said."  "No, I asked clarifying questions.  And he's pretty clear and firm about it."

Here's a real test:  You tell whomever you need, to get him into the bishop's office and talk about it with him.  If your husband lies to the bishop about it, then you know that this "revelation" is false.  If he tells the bishop straight, then the bishop will condemn him for it.

44 minutes ago, Openmind said:

Would he ever forgive me for "turning him in"?

You see my hesitation??

How would you feel about this if you knew your husband were on a straight path to overdosing on drugs?  Would you feel guilty about "turning him in"?

This is not just about him.  This is not just about you.  It is about the health of the marriage.  It is about the future stability of how you raise your kids.

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