How will you follow the Prophet’s Counsel?

[Just_A_Guy]

4 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm not sure why you seem to be assuming I'm in favor of bending over backwards for shrill irrationality. I think my point was the exact opposite of that.

Thanks for clarifying.  🙂

[The Folk Prophet]

@Just_A_Guy, incidentally... I read traveller's post with an implicit "even if masks don't work..." Maybe that's not what he meant. But that was my read. 

[Traveler]

7 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

What about the people who are uncomfortable going to church because of the masks?

Great question.  I would go without a mask for them but then that begs the question of conflicts between those that are concerned and yet in conflict.  However, those that object to wearing a mask do not seem to care that much about what others are doing but then again - with the current state of things there is a quote from president Lincoln that if changed slightly may apply.  That is that we can please some of the people all the time or all of the people some of the time but we will never please all of the people all of the time.

 

The Traveler

[mrmarklin]

As a US citizen I do not obey mandates from wannabe dictators. YMMV.  Frankly, I’m ashamed that the average American appears to be a sheeple  

I view the recent advice from the GAs as PR. 

[Traveler]

On 8/15/2021 at 5:18 PM, clwnuke said:

I have consistently worn my mask as required by my work, and by all governmental mandates long before the First Presidency spoke on the matter. I do this despite knowing that:

1. Masks ARE effective, and

.....

I do not think I can agree that masks are all that effective.  Initially the CDC and other experts said that in general masks do not filter the COVID virus.  Then they said that if we wore masks for 3 weeks we could "flatten the curve".  There have been suggestions to indicate that wearing multiple masks is what will really work.  Then we were told that the so called vaccine was effective - followed by wearing a mask for those with the vaccine is necessary.  Official statements for children under 12 have been all over the map with the excuse that this virus is new and we are learning more about it all the time.  And we are also told that we needed to study this virus so we will know what to do if it starts a pandemic????  Anyone else see a pattern?

Just the other day I listened to another expert explain that because the virus can exist indefinitely in animal reservoirs that anything we do cannot be counted as effective in the long term because the virus will constantly mutate.  But then I recall reading a book back in the 80's (almost 40 years ago) by Peter Duesberg titled "Inventing the AIDs Virus".  In his book he explained why the CDC opposed his research and warned that in 40 years we would not find a cure to AIDS because HIV was not the cause.  This despite his prediction that vast numbers of the population would test positive for HIV and never get sick and die of AIDS. 

Yet for COVID we found a cure within months and began manufacturing a vaccine.  Why after 40 years there has been a cure ever found for AIDS and there are no animal reservoirs to allow the virus mutate and return.  Our politicians passed a law that would prohibit disclosure of medical information related to AIDS - and we still have no cure????  But with COVID there are all kinds of studies showing all kinds of treatments and vaccine cures but for COVID the HIPPA laws created for AIDS do not apply and our politicians are insisting that your health records related to COVID must become public?

I would love to cooperate if the CDC, and the health care system if in general our science could come to real scientific consensus void of the obvious politics.   I do not like wearing a mask but I have and I would if there was more openness and honesty.   Those places that have worn masks have not done that much better than places that have not worn masks.   Even the statements about super spreader events seem to have become very political (including what is going on at our southern border).  I caught COVID because I spent time with a troubled grandson - but there were 3 days after I was exposed that I could of passed the virus to my wife (because I did not know I was infected and we were kissing without wearing a mask) that is type 1 diabetic and high risk.  Obviously for us there was something much more effective than a mask but there are politicians that have suggested that looking into such possibilities constitutes fake news and even racism???? 

All this and yet; according to the science, less than 1% of those known to have been infected result in death.  And we have a really good idea that those in the1% category that die will come from a demographic of 90% that are high risks.  Can't we see that there is more to this virus than what we are being told by experts?

 

The Traveler

Edited August 18, 2021 by Traveler

[Jane_Doe]

2 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

I view the recent advice from the GAs as PR. 

Why?

[LDSGator]

9 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

Frankly, I’m ashamed that the average American appears to be a sheeple  

Do you know how arrogant this makes you sound? Who are you to call the average American “sheep”? 

I’m a royally arrogant guy, but the average American is much smarter than we give them credit for.

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by LDSGator

[mrmarklin]

10 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Do you know how arrogant this makes you sound? Who are you to call the average American “sheep”? 

I’m a royally arrogant guy, but the average American is much smarter than we give them credit for.

 

I repeat:  I don’t obey mandates from wannabe dictators. I won’t argue the merits, but it’s in the US constitution. 
Obviously, if one doesn’t live in the US there can be different rules. 

[Just_A_Guy]

7 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Why?

Because if it were sincere, it suggests that I’m wrong.

And I’m never wrong.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Just_A_Guy

[Fether]

10 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

As a US citizen I do not obey mandates from wannabe dictators. YMMV.  Frankly, I’m ashamed that the average American appears to be a sheeple  

I view the recent advice from the GAs as PR. 

I’ve found the opposite to be true. There seems to be a strange conservative following that these mask mandates and potential vaccine mandate is a way for some leader to take over America, forcibly sterilize the population, or stick chips in all of us so we can be controlled.

I am becoming more and more dissatisfied with the conservative group think and sheep mentality. I remember hearing about CA plan to “legalize pedophilia”. I studied up on it, read article from lawyers explaining why the law was being made and the limitations of the bill was being made. It all made perfect sense and wasn’t at all what the headlines were making of it. I then watched a Tucker Carlson clip on it and he made the biggest straw man of an arguement I have ever seen. Since then, I have been more critical of what I hear. I have seen conservative media do the exact same thing with CRT and Vaccines. I’m not saying I agree entirely with the left, but the picture conservative media paints is not the reality.

As for the vaccine, I have found almost all the fear mongering against it to be found lacking. I have, through study, decided to join the Sheeple, as you call them.

 

[Fether]

9 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

I don’t obey mandates from wannabe dictators.

Sources? Can you provide a background on why you think congress, the senate, the president, and the Supreme Court are all wannabe dictators?

Edited August 16, 2021 by Fether

[LDSGator]

22 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

I repeat:  I don’t obey mandates from wannabe dictators. I won’t argue the merits, but it’s in the US constitution. 
Obviously, if one doesn’t live in the US there can be different rules. 

Fair enough. You obviously have no idea what living under a “dictatorship” really is like, but fair enough. 
 

Hint: Google Afghanistan. 

[LDSGator]

19 minutes ago, Fether said:

am becoming more and more dissatisfied with the conservative group think 

Many are. A friend of mine messages me a few months ago. This is a “conservative suburban mom” who has been “rethinking things” ever since the antivax/anti mask right took charge. I showed @Just_A_Guy the message. 

[Just_A_Guy]

14 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Many are. A friend of mine messages me a few months ago. This is a “conservative suburban mom” who has been “rethinking things” ever since the antivax/anti mask right took charge. I showed @Just_A_Guy the message. 

Hmm.  My brain could just be going, but I don’t think I remember seeing that.  

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Hmm.  My brain could just be going, but I don’t think I remember seeing that.  

Check Facebook kid. 
 

Sorry, now the rest of the world knows we talk outside the forums. Your reputation is ruined. 

[Just_A_Guy]

3 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Check Facebook kid. 
 

Sorry, now the rest of the world knows we talk outside the forums. Your reputation is ruined. 

You defending the artistic virtues of Barry Manilow is not “talking”.

[Fether]

20 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Many are. A friend of mine messages me a few months ago. This is a “conservative suburban mom” who has been “rethinking things” ever since the antivax/anti mask right took charge. I showed @Just_A_Guy the message. 

It’s so frustrating. Conservative media is attacking only the far far left views. Liberal media is attacking on the far far right views. Both are painting the picture of “it’s us or this dystopian view of the enemy”. The true left and true right are closer than most paint 

[LDSGator]

1 minute ago, Just_A_Guy said:

You defending the artistic virtues of Barry Manilow is not “talking”.

It’s actually Andy Williams genius. 
 

I told it was you. Your memory is failing in your old age. 

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, Fether said:

The true left and true right are closer than most paint 

I’ve been saying that for decades bro. 

[Just_A_Guy]

1 minute ago, LDSGator said:

It’s actually Andy Williams genius. 
 

I told it was you. Your memory is failing in your old age. 

Well, in that case . . . Who doesn’t love a little Moon River?

[The Folk Prophet]

Frankly, what concerns me the most is the astounding, condescending holier-than-thou comments I'm seeing from so many people that really ought to know better and be better at showing love, compassion, understanding, and empathy to their fellow Saints. And with the latest message from the First Presidency they've now added a distinct air of over-the-top smug "I told you so"-ism to their condescending holier-than-thou-ness. I know, and fully understand, that I've been accused of holier-than-thou attitudes. At times these criticisms are legitimate. Sure. But I don't think I've ever called my fellow Saints murderers because they had reservations about some medicine or another. I don't think I've ever phrased things in terms of "I'm begging you with all the love and patience I have left to let go of your pride" or the like.

I guess my own reservations about the vaccine and my own disdain for masking has helped me find some balance here. We ought to follow the prophet. We also ought to show more love and understanding for those who think differently than us. It seems that, one way or another, we're all failing. Even as I write this I realize that my love, compassion, understanding, and empathy for those calling me a murderer for not having been vaccinated sooner is sorely lacking.

We all have a long way to go to reach Zion.

(Most of the rhetoric I've seen on this forum hasn't been that extreme, but sometimes does tend to touch on some of the problems I believe are occurring. So kudos....and shame on us too. )

 

[Fether]

11 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

I view the recent advice from the GAs as PR

I do agree with you… but this also seems like the perfect way write off any counsel from the Prophet that one disagrees with. Perhaps even a way in which the adversary will deceive the elect.
 

Not saying this exact example is a deception from the adversary, but just keep in mind that when others abandon the church or reject actual spiritual counsel, they tend to feel the same way we are feeling about this counsel to get vaccinated

[Just_A_Guy]

37 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Many are. A friend of mine messages me a few months ago. This is a “conservative suburban mom” who has been “rethinking things” ever since the antivax/anti mask right took charge. I showed @Just_A_Guy the message. 

Now that you’ve reminded me of the exchange, and on a more serious note—your correspondent also mentioned the Q movement; and I think a lot of the disenchantment comes from a sort of break with reality that has occurred in the GOP over the last four years.

A traditional method of political discourse has been “this is the explanation for what you see”.  And the explanation might be anywhere from 10-90% BS, but it at least acknowledged what we the people were actually seeing.

Over the last five years, it has become mainstream amongst conservatives to buy into people who say “what you see [whether it be crowd sizes, video of me saying something I swear I didn’t say, or tabulated electoral results] is not reality [not just “reality taken out of context”, but completely fake], and it’s because of Bad People, and I’m the only one who’s enough of a manly man to really fight the Bad People.”  

Now, granted, that didn’t happen in a vacuum; and we’re currently seeing the progressive incumbent President pull the same “who are you gonna believe?  Me, or your own lyin’ eyes?!?” bit vis a vis, inter alia, Afghanistan.

But in a democratic republic, making your lies too obvious, has consequences.  Insulting the voters’ intelligence, has consequences.  Detaching from reality, has consequences.  

[LDSGator]

Just now, Just_A_Guy said:

Now that you’ve reminded me of the exchange, and on a more serious note—your correspondent also mentioned the Q movement; and I think a lot of the disenchantment comes from a sort of break with reality that has occurred in the GOP over the last four years.

Agree 100%. I always thought the GOP was the party of “harsh truths”. While democrats believed in a dream world that doesn’t work in reality. Tragically, that’s no longer the case. 

[The Folk Prophet]

6 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Now that you’ve reminded me of the exchange, and on a more serious note—your correspondent also mentioned the Q movement; and I think a lot of the disenchantment comes from a sort of break with reality that has occurred in the GOP over the last four years.

 

4 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Agree 100%. I always thought the GOP was the party of “harsh truths”. While democrats believed in a dream world that doesn’t work in reality. Tragically, that’s no longer the case. 

Wait. Who, exactly, are we taking about that's had this break with reality on the "conservative" side? QAnon? Or, you know...Ben Shapiro?