Biden's Mandate may be a tad too far

[askandanswer]

  On 9/16/2021 at 2:55 PM, Fether said:

I’m just curious if we would change our opinion if the disease was more dangerous 

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I think it makes sense that a response should be proportional to the risk. 

[Fether]

  On 9/18/2021 at 10:31 PM, askandanswer said:

I think it makes sense that a response should be proportional to the risk. 

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I agree. And it seems many belief the response is proportional to the risk

[JohnsonJones]

  On 9/16/2021 at 10:36 PM, clwnuke said:

Patients’ Rights on Trial: Going to Court to Get Hospitals to Treat Dying COVID Patients with Ivermectin.

https://odysee.com/@FrontlineCovid19CriticalCareAlliance:c/FLCCC-WEBINAR-Patients-Rights-on-Trial:9

Of course there is no evidence that Ivermectin works for COVID, unless you count the thousands of people who have recovered from COVID right after taking it.

Watch the first 5 minutes to see a real-life Ivermectin success for Sue Dickinson. Amazingly, the hospital where she recovered still does not include Ivermectin in their treatment protocol. Looking right at the sun and denying it is there.

The saddest thing is that the doctors have such a god complex that they actually hope the Ivermectin doesn't work after they are forced to allow it.

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[sarcasm]

There is nothing to show that drinking water is the cure for covid...except the MILLIONS who have caught it and gotten over it after drinking water.

Amazingly, Hospitals will give patients water, but WON'T prescribe it for Covid-19!

We have literally millions who recovered from Covid-19 after drinking Water...I wonder why they don't promote it as a cure...

There was the case of the guy drinking it from a Pig Trough who died, but he died of Ring worm...NOT covid!

Even if you have to drink the water from Animal troughs it seems to be the best cure for Covid-19!

[/sarcasm]

Maybe it helps, maybe it does not.  From what I've seen most medical studies that have been peer reviewed have not yet shown that it actually helps or not...though I HAVE heard it makes people who overtake it have rope worms come out of their digestive tract.  (actually, their intestinal linings).

I'd say, don't do anything without medical personnel involved...if the prescribe the human version of Ivermectin and you feel it helps...good, but if they don't...don't go to the animal store and buy the version for the Cow to take it yourself.

Edited September 20, 2021 by JohnsonJones

[JohnsonJones]

  On 9/17/2021 at 6:09 PM, clwnuke said:

Tell me again why we need a mandate to preserve Big Pharma's profits from the Covid pandemic??

India’s Uttar Pradesh State Now COVID-Free, Recovery Rate Up 98.6% Because Of Ivermectin

https://www.christianitydaily.com/articles/13293/20210917/india-s-uttar-pradesh-state-now-covid-free-recovery-rate-up-98-6-because-of-ivermectin.htm

Covid is affecting every aspect of work life in America. The FDA and the CDC say don't use Ivermectin. Uttar Pradesh is only 5.8% vaccinated but was the "the first state in [India] to introduce large-scale prophylactic and therapeutic use of Ivermectin," and is now virtually Covid free. It's hard to argue with the success of 240 million people.

Dr. Anshul Pareek led a team in May to June 2020 to administer Ivermectin to patients on an experimental basis. Agrawal said, "It was observed that none of them developed Covid-19 despite being in daily contact with patients who had tested positive for the virus."Agrawal added that Ivermectin has helped the state maintain low positivity rates despite its high population density. He added, "Once the second wave subsides, we would conduct our own study as there has been an emerging body of evidence to substantiate our timely use of Ivermectin from the first wave itself."

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Why is that from Christinity daily instead of Hindu daily...OH...wait a second, because Pradesh actually is stating something different than that article says they are.

THAT SAID...

USA Today fact check on hdroxychloroquine and Ivermectin use in India

  Quote

New daily coronavirus cases in India have fallen since their peak in early May. But there is no evidence that hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin have played a role in that trend.

"Hydroxychloroquine has no efficacy whatsoever for COVID and there are numerous trials showing no benefit. Ivermectin is unproven and its indication is for treatment, not for prevention, of disease," Dr. Amita Gupta, deputy director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Clinical Global Health Education, said in an email. "So there is no basis for this being the reason for the decrease in cases."

...........

The primary reason for the decline in COVID-19 cases is unclear, but experts say it may have to do with adherence to guidelines like social distancing and mask-wearing.

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Despite that, further research SHOWS that India actually DID encourage the use of Ivermectin early on in the pandemic and had all it's medical workers in certain areas encouraged to take it. 

Studies on it's effectiveness haven't actually concluded anything (so those saying it helped aren't exactly accurate, and those who say it did not help are not exactly accurate either, some studies have been done but many are still ongoing and others seem to still require peer review for both directions of the argument).

Currently, what they say helped curb Covid-19 in the Uttar Pradesh area is this

India Today on Uttar Pradeshs covid cases as of the end of August

  Quote

A stringent "trace, test and treat" measure, vaccination and partial curfews have paid dividends in restricting Covid-19 spread. The positivity rate has slumped to 0.006 per cent, the lowest in the country. Kerala has a test positivity rate of 19.67 per cent.

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Things to note which are not occurring much in areas of the US in areas with Large Conservative groups and perhaps why it's much worse in the US than Uttar Pradesh right now...

There is no stringent effort to trace anymore...in fact, most have completely given up on it.  People are fighting strongly against vaccination...and if you mention curfew...they get more violent than if you ask them to mask and social distance.

In that light, you may be right, if we DID the things INDIA did in that area perhaps the US wouldn't have as many Covid-19 cases currently, but it seems that those parading around what India is doing actually ignore what it IS doing...and would fight to the death against it if the government tried to enforce it.

That said, I am still an American (not Indian) and still think the mandate is going to far...but using other nations that have far stronger measures and mandates to try to bolster one's arguments against weaker mandates coming at us in the States seems disingenuous.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by JohnsonJones

[clwnuke]

The Ivermectin Deworming Hoax - Part III: Poison Control Exposed

• by Justus R. Hope, MD

https://www.thedesertreview.com/news/the-ivermectin-deworming-hoax---part-iii-poison-control-exposed/article_a553b7f2-1a31-11ec-881a-a7df53e98d65.html

Dr. George Fareed is that doctor. Having graduated with honors from Harvard in 1970, he quickly rose to a young assistant professor at that institution and later worked in genetic recombinant DNA research. He worked briefly at the NIH. He was named the CMA California Rural Physician of the Year in 2015 for his excellence in treating patients.

Early in the Pandemic, he innovated a repurposed drug treatment that saved his community's patients with almost 100% effectiveness. He wrote an open letter to Dr. Anthony Fauci to inform him to no avail.

By the fall of 2020, he and his associate, Dr. Brian Tyson, together had treated nearly 2,000 patients with this repurposed drug cocktail.  They lost only one individual - and that person had come to them late - who had not received the full early treatment protocol. This account is legendary and has been published in multiple articles, books, and reviews. It is known as “The Miracle of the Imperial Valley.”

This month, Dr. Fareed testified before the Italian Senate in Rome, Italy, and discussed this experience. He and Tyson have now treated a total of some 7,000 COVID patients. 

Dr. Fareed explained that patients can almost always be saved when they start the early treatment cocktail within the first five to seven days of symptoms. 

"We have now treated over 7,000 patients, and there has not been a single death in patients treated within the first five to seven days of the onset of symptoms. NOT A SINGLE DEATH. This (series) includes patients with multiple co-morbidities as well as patients in their nineties!"

Dr. Fareed was clear in his testimony at both the US and Italian Senates:

"No one needs to die from COVID-19."

Perhaps the one physician in the United States who has directly treated more COVID patients than any other individual is also the most credible. He has no financial conflicts of interest. He has no reason to bend the truth. 

However, the same cannot be said for Dr. Anthony Fauci, who does not directly treat patients with COVID. Dr. Fauci is not a front-line doctor; he is a bureaucrat.

The CDC, FDA, and NIH agencies are, in essence, for-profit divisions of the pharmaceutical industry. Due to the patent laws, the researchers receive royalties from vaccines and treatments like Remdesivir, and the institutions also receive massive incomes.

Dr. Fareed's early cocktail employed a combination of hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and nutraceuticals, including zinc, vitamin D, and C. He explained this in his remarks in Rome,

"Eighteen months ago, in March 2020, I, along with my colleague Dr. Brian Tyson, began treating COVID-19 patients early in the course of the disease with a combination of medications, initially primarily hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin or doxycycline, and nutraceuticals including zinc, vitamin D and C.

As Dr. McCullough explained, medications such as hydroxychloroquine act as ionophores to allow zinc into the cell to interfere with viral replication. 

As time progressed, so did our treatment, and we added drugs such as Ivermectin, fluvoxamine, and monoclonal antibodies, as well as aspirin and budesonide (steroid) to treat the other aspects of the disease."

To put Dr. Fareed's results in perspective, his county, Imperial, located in Southern California, has experienced 30,000 total COVID-19 cases and 750 deaths. Drs. Fareed and Tyson treated over 20% of them, some 7,000 patients, and simple mathematics would have predicted their group would have had their share, or 150, of these deaths. Arguably they had one casualty. Thus, they saved at least 149 patients or 99% with their protocol. Had the United States adopted it when Dr. Fareed advised the United States Senate on November 19, 2020, we could have saved 500,000 of the 650,000 deaths that occurred after his announcement.

However, many consumers, especially those who do not study medicine, will trust what the government agencies preach through the media. As a result, many will fall prey to the disinformation campaign perpetrated by Big Pharma.

[Traveler]

As some may have noticed, I have been absent from the forum for a number of days.  I have been away visiting some of my children and grand children.  While I was gone, I had a most interesting conversation with a group of nurses.   Most of these ladies were young and of childbearing years and they are quitting their jobs rather than taking the vaccine.  I thought this was odd since they are in the medical profession and I have not seen any data or published opinion against the vaccine.  In talking with these ladies their concern is that the vaccine will interfere long term with pregnancies.  I asked if this problem has arisen in any studies.  I was told it was not directly but has been a problem with RNA therapy and there are no studies  to indicate that the COVID-19 vaccine does not effect fertility in men or women.  Since many in this younger demographic are not at high risk for dying - they do not want the vaccine.  

Has anyone else heard this?  Are the concerns of young health care professional falling on deaf ears?  If this is any where near a possibility why has the media not made mention?  

 

The Traveler

[mikbone]

  On 9/22/2021 at 10:58 PM, Traveler said:

Has anyone else heard this?  Are the concerns of young health care professional falling on deaf ears?  If this is any where near a possibility why has the media not made mention?  

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Gut feelings count.  

There hasn't been enough time to even perform a scientific study on the long term effects of the vaccine on pregnancy, fertility, possible birth defects, etc.

Science doesn’t tell us why.  It can only tell us why we were wrong - after the fact.  

Hopefully they can get their better half to step up to the plate and provide for the family.

And yes, I am seeing the same thing in my neck of the woods.

Edited September 22, 2021 by mikbone

[clwnuke]

  On 9/22/2021 at 11:41 PM, mikbone said:

Gut feelings count. 

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I came across an interesting quote in preparation for my new Church calling. It's from a book called The Crucible of Doubt by Terryl and Fiona Givens.

"In 1945, a Church magazine urged upon its readers . . . that "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done." 

This sounds a lot like the current vaccine debate among members. But it goes on to say:

"Many are familiar with that expression; fewer are aware that when President George Albert Smith learned of it, he immediately and indignantly repudiated the statement. "Even to imply that members of the Church are not to do their own thinking," he wrote, "is grossly to misrepresent the true ideals of the Church." Regrettably, this myth persists in the minds of many Latter-day Saints, even as leaders disavow infallibility and urge upon members personal responsibility."

This made me recall the First Presidency's January 19,2021 message on the Covid vaccine which stated: “Individuals are responsible to make their own decisions about vaccination.” 

Gut feelings do count IMHO. If those feelings change following more study, wonderful. But if they stay the same or intensify after more study, God wants us to follow those promptings IMHO.

 

[Backroads]

  On 9/22/2021 at 11:41 PM, mikbone said:

Gut feelings count.  

There hasn't been enough time to even perform a scientific study on the long term effects of the vaccine on pregnancy, fertility, possible birth defects, etc.

Science doesn’t tell us why.  It can only tell us why we were wrong - after the fact.  

Hopefully they can get their better half to step up to the plate and provide for the family.

And yes, I am seeing the same thing in my neck of the woods.

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But is a majority of young healthcare workers?

[Guest Godless]

  On 9/22/2021 at 10:58 PM, Traveler said:

As some may have noticed, I have been absent from the forum for a number of days.  I have been away visiting some of my children and grand children.  While I was gone, I had a most interesting conversation with a group of nurses.   Most of these ladies were young and of childbearing years and they are quitting their jobs rather than taking the vaccine.  I thought this was odd since they are in the medical profession and I have not seen any data or published opinion against the vaccine.  In talking with these ladies their concern is that the vaccine will interfere long term with pregnancies.  I asked if this problem has arisen in any studies.  I was told it was not directly but has been a problem with RNA therapy and there are no studies  to indicate that the COVID-19 vaccine does not effect fertility in men or women.  Since many in this younger demographic are not at high risk for dying - they do not want the vaccine.  

Has anyone else heard this?  Are the concerns of young health care professional falling on deaf ears?  If this is any where near a possibility why has the media not made mention?  

 

The Traveler

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It's a common misconception that nurses are experts in medical science. They're not. They're trained in the functionality of caring for people and keeping them alive. They can do that without understanding the complex science behind diseases and treatment. That's the job of the doctors. 

It's also worth noting that vaccine mandates aren't the only reason why nurses are resigning en masse.

https://keprtv.com/amp/news/local/local-hospitals-at-icu-capacity-icu-nurses-resigning?__twitter_impression=true

[LDSGator]

  On 9/23/2021 at 4:20 PM, Godless said:

It's a common misconception that nurses are experts in medical science. They're not. They're trained in the functionality of caring for people and keeping them alive. They can do that without understanding the complex science behind diseases and treatment. That's the job of the doctors. 

It's also worth noting that vaccine mandates aren't the only reason why nurses are resigning en masse.

https://keprtv.com/amp/news/local/local-hospitals-at-icu-capacity-icu-nurses-resigning?__twitter_impression=true

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It’s also worth noting that your average doctor is not an expert in communicable disease either. Just because he or she is a wonderful GP doesn’t mean they know what they are talking about when it comes to Covid. 

[clwnuke]

  On 9/23/2021 at 4:20 PM, Godless said:

It's also worth noting that vaccine mandates aren't the only reason why nurses are resigning en masse.

https://keprtv.com/amp/news/local/local-hospitals-at-icu-capacity-icu-nurses-resigning?__twitter_impression=true

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Job burnout due to Covid has hit many professions. And many people are simply looking at a woke world gone crazy and deciding to John Galt the situation.

If I didn't feel an obligation to serve my fellow man I would drop off the radar and stop earning money for the socialists stealing it out of my pocket and giving it to others.

I wonder how God will judge those who feel that it's OK to steal as long as they have the government do it through taxes and welfare programs.

[clwnuke]

  On 9/23/2021 at 4:27 PM, LDSGator said:

It’s also worth noting that your average doctor is not an expert in communicable disease either. Just because he or she is a wonderful GP doesn’t mean they know what they are talking about when it comes to Covid. 

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But they are darn good at repeating the bureaucratic necromancy of faceless government officials at the FDA and CDC

Edited September 23, 2021 by clwnuke

[LDSGator]

  On 9/23/2021 at 4:33 PM, clwnuke said:

But they are darn good at repeating the bureaucratic necromancy of faceless government officials at the FDA and CDC

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Some do, some don’t. My bio mom was a nurse, and while that hardly makes her an expert on COVID, she had amazing insight on doctors.
 

Her most insightful and interesting comment was that the biggest jerks are usually the ones you want operating on your daughter or father-while the nicest, sweetest doctors are often times the most incompetent. No, it’s not universal. But it is interesting. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by LDSGator

[clwnuke]

  On 9/23/2021 at 4:47 PM, LDSGator said:

Some do, some don’t. My bio mom was a nurse, and while that hardly makes her an expert on COVID, she had amazing insight on doctors.
 

Her most insightful and interesting comment was that the biggest jerks are usually the ones you want operating on your daughter, while the nicest, sweetest doctors are often times the most incompetent. No, it’s not universal. But it is interesting. 

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I think your bio mom was wise. Never confuse bedside manner with skillset competence. It's why job interviews are notoriously bad at predicting employee performance IMHO.

[LDSGator]

  On 9/23/2021 at 4:50 PM, clwnuke said:

I think your bio mom was wise. Never confuse bedside manner with  skillset competence. It's why job interviews are notoriously bad at predicting employee performance IMHO.

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Thanks. Agree 100% with you about job interviews too.

[Ironhold]

  On 9/22/2021 at 10:58 PM, Traveler said:

As some may have noticed, I have been absent from the forum for a number of days.  I have been away visiting some of my children and grand children.  While I was gone, I had a most interesting conversation with a group of nurses.   Most of these ladies were young and of childbearing years and they are quitting their jobs rather than taking the vaccine.  I thought this was odd since they are in the medical profession and I have not seen any data or published opinion against the vaccine.  In talking with these ladies their concern is that the vaccine will interfere long term with pregnancies.  I asked if this problem has arisen in any studies.  I was told it was not directly but has been a problem with RNA therapy and there are no studies  to indicate that the COVID-19 vaccine does not effect fertility in men or women.  Since many in this younger demographic are not at high risk for dying - they do not want the vaccine.  

Has anyone else heard this?  Are the concerns of young health care professional falling on deaf ears?  If this is any where near a possibility why has the media not made mention?  

 

The Traveler

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There's a long-standing rumor (which, to my knowledge, hasn't been confirmed) that the Covid vaccines all interfere with fertility, and one recent allegation claims that a nursing infant whose mother just had the vaccine died suddenly from what the allegations are claiming may have been side effects of the vaccine. 

It's a mess. 

 

As it is, I recently had a bit of a spat with my mom this morning. 

I'm overdue for a tetanus booster, but the reports I was hearing from *actual medical types* were saying you couldn't have a tetanus booster within a certain period of time of having a Covid shot. However, the incredible hype around the Delta variant was such that my mom would have a screaming fit whenever the topic came up, and so absolutely refused to listen to me whenever I talked about getting a tetanus shot. 

I have a physical disability that makes it difficult for me to drive long distances, and so she played her ultimate trump card by refusing to go with me to an upcoming comic convention - which included a childhood idol as the headline act - if I didn't get at least one shot first. Dad has no stamina due to an illness he got earlier this year (which mom swears was Covid), and so while he could help me drive he would need help getting through the event. 

I had to once again explain to her this morning that because she was so fixated on the vaccine I'm now going to have to wait several more weeks before I can finally get my booster, and because of the type of work I do and life I live tetanus is a far greater threat to me than Covid. 

She only just now accepted that she was wrong and should have let me get the tetanus shot first, but no apology will ever be coming. 

[scottyg]

  On 9/23/2021 at 5:40 PM, Ironhold said:

There's a long-standing rumor (which, to my knowledge, hasn't been confirmed) that the Covid vaccines all interfere with fertility, and one recent allegation claims that a nursing infant whose mother just had the vaccine died suddenly from what the allegations are claiming may have been side effects of the vaccine.

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My wife got the shot after being pressured into it...and started bleeding the very next day. She was only on day 11 of her cycle. We are done having kids, so she wasn't/isn't too worried, but regretted her decision immediately. She is always very regular, so it seems too odd to just be a coincidence.

[JohnsonJones]

  On 9/22/2021 at 10:58 PM, Traveler said:

As some may have noticed, I have been absent from the forum for a number of days.  I have been away visiting some of my children and grand children.  While I was gone, I had a most interesting conversation with a group of nurses.   Most of these ladies were young and of childbearing years and they are quitting their jobs rather than taking the vaccine.  I thought this was odd since they are in the medical profession and I have not seen any data or published opinion against the vaccine.  In talking with these ladies their concern is that the vaccine will interfere long term with pregnancies.  I asked if this problem has arisen in any studies.  I was told it was not directly but has been a problem with RNA therapy and there are no studies  to indicate that the COVID-19 vaccine does not effect fertility in men or women.  Since many in this younger demographic are not at high risk for dying - they do not want the vaccine.  

Has anyone else heard this?  Are the concerns of young health care professional falling on deaf ears?  If this is any where near a possibility why has the media not made mention?  

 

The Traveler

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I have heard things in this regard, but I haven't looked up facts so it is all rumors.

We had a daughter of an individual I know who was pregnant.  She caught Covid-19 and something with it caused something to occur with the fetus or something internally.  It caused her to start bleeding internally during the night, the baby was lost, she is in intensive care right now, unknown if she will pull through.

Apparently this is not the first instance that the have had of this in the area, and something when someone catches COVID-19 increases the chances (by 4x?) of this type of situation to occur or something like this.

I'm not sure of the vaccine and how it interacts with this, but supposedly they said she and the baby probably would not have had this happen had she been vaccinated.

She decided NOT to get vaccinated because of her fear that something would happen to the pregnancy...ironically enough.

I do wonder though, if there ARE long term effects in this, as the vaccines replicate messengers to create the antibodies and such, but I do not know.  In the short run it seems, from my little anecdotal experiences, to be safer to get vaccinated than not in case of pregnancy, but this is not from facts, articles, or anything more than what I have heard through conversations pertaining to my small social circle.

[Traveler]

I thought to start this post with the problem of the internet.  I have become very suspicious that the search engines on the internet have become political - case in point Hunger Biden stories about his laptop.  With this said I have tried to get information about India from the internet.  India is claiming that the combination of Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine is proving to be as effective in treating COVID as having the "vaccine".  They ought to know, India has had some serious problems with COVID.  However, there are all kinds of claims from US health care outlets that Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine are ineffective but there is no data or any specific studies referenced.   I also find it interesting that it seems that the most deaths from the "vaccine" are associated with blood clots and yet blood clots are not listed anywhere on the internet as a side effect of the "vaccine".

I am also concerned that Dr. Fauci is considered the world expert on COVID and is also 100% complicit in funding the research that is very likely the cause of the global pandemic.  The fact that Dr. Fauci has not recuse himself and the US medical industrial complex  has not recommended he be replaced worries me for reasons that seems obviously logical.  For all the blaming of Trump for not managing effectively - there is no person more responsible for how all this has been managed than Dr. Fauci.  And yet whenever the statement of "follow the science" in invoked, especially in political circles, I feel that Dr. Fauci is the single greatest source of that intended science or pseudo science?

The fact that Dr. Fauci and the medical industrial complex says (in relation to those that are concerned with long term side effects of the "vaccine") that there is nothing to see - keep moving on and get the "vaccine" (without any research or studies) leaves me with the impression that individuals like Dr. Fauci see that the general public  are in essence guinea pigs.  But I have also seen an article about a guinea pig being abandoned in a dumpster - which leaves me to believe that perhaps the main stream media and for that matter much of the political arena - may be more concerned with guinea pigs than legal American citizens that think they live in a "free" country. 

 

The Traveler

[Ironhold]

  On 9/24/2021 at 4:10 PM, Traveler said:

I thought to start this post with the problem of the internet.  I have become very suspicious that the search engines on the internet have become political - case in point Hunger Biden stories about his laptop.  With this said I have tried to get information about India from the internet.  India is claiming that the combination of Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine is proving to be as effective in treating COVID as having the "vaccine".  They ought to know, India has had some serious problems with COVID.  However, there are all kinds of claims from US health care outlets that Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine are ineffective but there is no data or any specific studies referenced.   I also find it interesting that it seems that the most deaths from the "vaccine" are associated with blood clots and yet blood clots are not listed anywhere on the internet as a side effect of the "vaccine".

I am also concerned that Dr. Fauci is considered the world expert on COVID and is also 100% complicit in funding the research that is very likely the cause of the global pandemic.  The fact that Dr. Fauci has not recuse himself and the US medical industrial complex  has not recommended he be replaced worries me for reasons that seems obviously logical.  For all the blaming of Trump for not managing effectively - there is no person more responsible for how all this has been managed than Dr. Fauci.  And yet whenever the statement of "follow the science" in invoked, especially in political circles, I feel that Dr. Fauci is the single greatest source of that intended science or pseudo science?

The fact that Dr. Fauci and the medical industrial complex says (in relation to those that are concerned with long term side effects of the "vaccine") that there is nothing to see - keep moving on and get the "vaccine" (without any research or studies) leaves me with the impression that individuals like Dr. Fauci see that the general public  are in essence guinea pigs.  But I have also seen an article about a guinea pig being abandoned in a dumpster - which leaves me to believe that perhaps the main stream media and for that matter much of the political arena - may be more concerned with guinea pigs than legal American citizens that think they live in a "free" country. 

 

The Traveler

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Everything I'm seeing about Ivermectin says that there's a *massive* difference between what happens when it's given in a clinical setting and what happens when people buy it off the shelf and try taking it on their own. 

Problem is, because the mainstream media (that is, the big-name publishers) have all decided that Ivermectin is bad and only foolish people attempt it, any talk of its use in clinical settings is now being classed as "fake news". 

[Traveler]

  On 9/24/2021 at 4:22 PM, Ironhold said:

Everything I'm seeing about Ivermectin says that there's a *massive* difference between what happens when it's given in a clinical setting and what happens when people buy it off the shelf and try taking it on their own. 

Problem is, because the mainstream media (that is, the big-name publishers) have all decided that Ivermectin is bad and only foolish people attempt it, any talk of its use in clinical settings is now being classed as "fake news". 

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I wonder how much Dr. Fauci is in support of what is being said?

 

The Traveler

[scottyg]

  On 9/24/2021 at 4:22 PM, Ironhold said:

Everything I'm seeing about Ivermectin says that there's a *massive* difference between what happens when it's given in a clinical setting and what happens when people buy it off the shelf and try taking it on their own. 

Problem is, because the mainstream media (that is, the big-name publishers) have all decided that Ivermectin is bad and only foolish people attempt it, any talk of its use in clinical settings is now being classed as "fake news". 

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Some folks are just plain stupid. They are taking an entire syringe of the stuff meant for a 1,200 pound horse...a dose 6-8 times higher than the upper limit should be.

Something that is odd about all of this is that when new treatments for any type of condition arise, there are studies done to judge the efficacy of said treatments. This happens all the time with new medications. They are found to have beneficial side effects, studies are done, and then new indications for prescribing those medications are recommended. Sometimes drugs that are meant to originally treat one condition are found to more effectively treat another. 

Does Ivermectin work against Covid-19...the truth is that nobody really knows for sure. Why doesn't anyone really know...because large and legitimate studies are not being done on it. Anytime anyone in the medical profession beings it up they are labeled as a crazy person. Given the attention it has received, one would think that several unbiased studies would have already been done, but thorough studies are not being done on it because of money and politics. And, as petty as it may sound, one root of this is due to the left's hatred of President Trump. Because he brought it up once upon a time, it has to be roundly and soundly defeated for all time without the necessity of any evidence to support that conclusion. Anything he has ever been for has to be untrue by default.

Does Ivermectin work...maybe. It might be a great tool in fighting the virus. Or, it might be a waste of time. But, until the medical community moves the bulk of it's research away from the university setting, as well as away from politics, we will begin to see greater forms of lackluster healthcare in the future.

[clwnuke]

  On 9/24/2021 at 4:50 PM, scottyg said:

Some folks are just plain stupid. They are taking an entire syringe of the stuff meant for a 1,200 pound horse...a dose 6-8 times higher than the upper limit should be.

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They are being forced to by their doctors and pharmacists refusing to prescribe the human grade. I have a legal prescription but I had to get a pharmacy other than my normal one. I've taken Ivermectin, and a person would be hard pressed to ever know they took it. It's so safe for human consumption that most countries offer it OTC. 

  On 9/24/2021 at 4:50 PM, scottyg said:

Does Ivermectin work...maybe. It might be a great tool in fighting the virus. Or, it might be a waste of time. But, until the medical community moves the bulk of it's research away from the university setting, as well as away from politics, we will begin to see greater forms of lackluster healthcare in the future.

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We have to remember that when Covid hit our shores that there were no treatment protocols for doctors to follow. Zero. Nada.

Front line critical care doctors treating early Covid patients had no guidance whatsoever to follow because it was new and unknown. There were no "studies" to draw upon. Any guidance from the CDC and FDA has been ad hoc at best. They had no data to support their previous or current recommendations due to the nature of how long it takes to do double-blind studies.

Because most people recover easily, MOST doctors treating Covid patients told them to go home and if their breathing got bad  then head to the hospital emergency room. In essence, they were doing NOTHING. Nada. Zero. Nanimo nai. 

However, some critical care doctors who were on the front lines treating patients (not bureaucrats who sit on their brains all day and spout off as Covid experts) wanted to do more than "wait" for their patients to possibly get worse. They experimented with HCQ, Ivermectin, zinc, vitamin D, melatonin, quercetin, and other protocols to try and prevent the cytokine storms from happening at all. They found that some of those worked marvelously well and moved quickly to inform other doctors. Some were invited to Washington DC to testify about their successes. 

And what did they get for their efforts? They were branded as heretics. Hence many of us have to wonder what the motivations have really been during this pandemic for FDA and CDC officials. They brazenly discredit the cheap and successful protocols developed by front line critical care doctors treating Covid patients, but they give the go-ahead for expensive experimental treatments based on the slightest wiff of evidence. Hospitals were incentivized with tons of $$$ to use these and none of them helped. (My wife works in medical billing and directly sees the bonuses paid to hospitals if they will classify patients as Covid positive.)

Something didn't add up, and it still doesn't. But as you point out, research and time will eventually win the day - at least it used to.

I guess we will see, but if it turns out that early intervention with these protocols is eventually determined to absolutely be effective, I doubt all the experts who spoke out against them will take responsibility and resign for their part in causing thousands of unnecessary Covid deaths.

Edited September 24, 2021 by clwnuke
grammar rewrite

[scottyg]

  On 9/24/2021 at 5:48 PM, clwnuke said:

They are being forced to by their doctors and pharmacists refusing to prescribe the human grade. I have a legal prescription but I had to get a pharmacy other than my normal one. I've taken Ivermectin, and a person would be hard pressed to ever know they took it. It's so safe for human consumption that most countries offer it OTC. 

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It is the same drug, so yes, it is safe for human consumption...if the proper amount is taken. All it takes is a simple math conversion, yet folks don't even bother to think that an animal dose may be different than a human one. Cut up the large tablet into smaller pieces. Don't squirt an entire syringe into your mouth...take it in smaller amounts. No one is forcing them take the entire thing all at once.

Taking a large dose meant for a horse = stupid.