A Microcosm in the Church? (DezNat)

[Just_A_Guy]

On 2/21/2023 at 6:43 PM, LDSGator said:

None of us here are that influential. 

[Morgan Freeman voice-over]:  “But as LDSGator boarded his plane to go to the Davos summit it occurred to him that one of them was, in fact, ‘that influential’”.

[LDSGator]

35 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

[Morgan Freeman voice-over]:  “But as LDSGator boarded his plane to go to the Davos summit it occurred to him that one of them was, in fact, ‘that influential’”.

Greatest. Comment. Ever. 

[Ironhold]

That's why you network. 

[LDSGator]

2 hours ago, Ironhold said:

That's why you network. 

dude, want to fly on the private jet? I’d ask @Just_A_Guy but our insurance doesn’t cover the elderly. 

[Traveler]

On 2/21/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Folk Prophet said:

......

Anyhow...just another fascinating thing I came across so I'm sharing for discussion.

There's more to say...but I'll save it for other posts maybe.

I have a son that has wondered off (for lack of a better term) the path of the iron rod.  He is quite in touch with his millennial generation.  I have made efforts to maintain contact and have open discussions.   The upcoming generation to which he belongs is somewhat interesting to watch.  In essence they seem (at least to me) to lack transitive logic.  For example, they interpret any criticism as hateful and mean but their criticism they see as needed and helpful and if rejected is hateful and mean.   This attitude is not so different than previous generations - but it seems to me to be more elevated with the newer generations.  I could describe other characteristics.  Once again not so different but more pronounced.  

But I would put forward another characteristic.  That is, it seems that they will remain calm but deliberately press hot buttons.  When responses become elevated, they will claim the high ground and accuse you of being out of control with terms like bigot, judgmental, raciest, close minded and any other loose term that fits their fancy.  Their friends seem to be quite fair-weather friends that talk support but seldom give sweat service.  It seems to me that such approaches are an engine for a lot of loneliness and depression in upcoming generations.

 

As to the idea of a Deseret Nation.  This is not a new notion.  As a 5^th generation member, I remember my grandparents talking about the Church becoming a nation unto itself.  Not necessarily entirely independent but as an entity not dependent on the USA government.  Sort of like a supper state.  This was the intent of the early pioneer Saints that settled much of the west from Canada to Mexico.  Some thought such a nation would not become established until the Church moved back to Missouri and some believed that the only reason the Church has not become such a political entity to itself is because of general unrighteousness among the Saints – somewhat to do with the Law of Consecration (and perhaps a few other things).  BTW – there appears to be great misunderstanding of blood atonement.  I never heard it applied to apostasy only to the act of murder.  For me the joke of Pres, Kimball is a very poorly framed in ignorance attempt at humor.

I would say one thing – we all have sinned and have fallen short.  What does it mean to be “converted” to Christ and become born again as a Saint of G-d?  I do not think it means that there is no longer any need to repent.  I do believe it does mean that we no longer identify as a “natural” man but as “children” of G-d.

I believe the term righteous means someone loyal and faithful to their covenants with G-d.

I believe the term wicked means someone that for whatever reason is no longer loyal and faithful to their covenants with G-d.

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

22 minutes ago, Traveler said:

This attitude is not so different than previous generations

My dad is a baby boomer. We were talking once about “thin skinned millennials” and he said, “Well, I know a lot thin skinned baby boomers too.” 
 

We like to think our generation is special and those who come after/before us are deficient in some way. Few things show our ego like that way of thinking. 
 

Most also miss the innate silliness/irony of complaining about a generation of “slackers”, “thin skinned babies”, etc while being unaware who raised them. 
 

On a side note, I hope things work out with your son bro. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by LDSGator

[Ironhold]

25 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I have a son that has wondered off (for lack of a better term) the path of the iron rod.  He is quite in touch with his millennial generation.  I have made efforts to maintain contact and have open discussions.   The upcoming generation to which he belongs is somewhat interesting to watch.  In essence they seem (at least to me) to lack transitive logic.  For example, they interpret any criticism as hateful and mean but their criticism they see as needed and helpful and if rejected is hateful and mean.   This attitude is not so different than previous generations - but it seems to me to be more elevated with the newer generations.  I could describe other characteristics.  Once again not so different but more pronounced.  

 

"Hard times bring hard men.

Hard men bring soft times.

Soft times bring soft men.

Soft men bring hard times."

- old adage

 

It's the natural impulse of the previous generation to ensure that the subsequent generation has more than they had, and an overall easier time of it. 

The problem is that past a certain point a society can create a situation where the subsequent generation has known so little in the way of hardship, stress, conflict, or difficulty that they have no real frame of reference by which to actually judge difficulty. It can also occur when a person has been inside a little "bubble" of some sort for so long that they've had little to no contact with the world outside. 

This is why, for example, these individuals treat any and all criticism as "hateful". They've been led to believe that they're perfect little darlings and that everything they do is by extension perfect, and so can't fathom why anyone would say anything that they've done is wrong. Therefore, it must mean that they're dealing with angry people who are just jealous or mean-spirited. 

In contrast, they also see themselves as all-knowing because they don't understand their own *lack* of knowledge, and so presume to have the answers for everything. Thus, it's a big insult to them if they feel people aren't taking them seriously, as it means that people aren't bowing down to their omniscience. 

The whole "kids these days are just too soft!" bit has now reached a point that it's being used as an argument for reinstating military conscription in the United States, both because people want these individuals to understand true hardship and because they fell the military will build the character that is seen as sorely lacking.

[NeuroTypical]

9 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

My dad is a baby boomer. We were talking once about “thin skinned millennials” and he said, “Well, I know a lot thin skinned baby boomers too.” 

We've largely forgotten that baby boomers were once culturally defined by Woodstock:

Timothy Leary was a leading voice in experimenting with altering consciousness with drugs.  "Turn on, tune in, drop out" was a mantra for many boomers, an early attempt to meditate on what triggers you, and deconstruct what society expects from you. 

Those pot smokin' hippies are now todays crotchety old crumudgeons, griping about kids these days.

 

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Those pot smokin' hippies are now todays crotchety old crumudgeons, griping about kids these days.

It’s very cliche, that’s for sure. Been happening since the dawn of civilization. 
 

I wonder if any generation ever asked themselves, “Do we have blame if our kids are entitled, blah blah?” After all, when we got participation trophies in third grade it was our parents handing them out. 

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, LDSGator said:

dude, want to fly on the private jet? I’d ask @Just_A_Guy but our insurance doesn’t cover the elderly. 

Listen, whippersnapper, I . . .

[looks at watch]

Ooh!  Nap time!

We can finish this later.

[LDSGator]

Just now, Just_A_Guy said:

Listen, whippersnapper, I . . .

[looks at watch]

Ooh!  Nap time!

We can finish this later.

lol!!!! 
 

Btw everyone-I’m actually a month older than him. 

[NeuroTypical]

8 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

It’s very cliche, that’s for sure. Been happening since the dawn of civilization. 

I see a larger cycle at play.  Bad times make strong men, strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times.  While every generation has it's idle layabouts, you can look at employment statistics and attitude polling across time to see such things play out. 

Tale as old as time:

[LDSGator]

7 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

see a larger cycle at play.  Bad times make strong men, strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make bad times.  While every generation has it's idle layabouts, you can look at employment statistics and attitude polling across time to see such things play out. 

Totally fair. 

[Just_A_Guy]

17 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

lol!!!! 
 

Btw everyone-I’m actually a month older than him. 

Yeah, but you kept your hair.  😡

[LDSGator]

1 minute ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Yeah, but you kept your hair.  😡

And charm. 

[Just_A_Guy]

4 hours ago, LDSGator said:

And charm. 

Let’s not get crazy, now . . .

[The Folk Prophet]

4 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

We've largely forgotten that baby boomers were once culturally defined by Woodstock:

Sure. But that's like saying my generation was defined by parachute pants. I lived through my generation....the actual amount of people who actually wore parachute pants was about...4...and I think most of them did so on TV shows.

Generations get defined by their extremes. But that doesn't mean the extremes actually represents the great majority.

[Guest Godless]

6 hours ago, LDSGator said:

My dad is a baby boomer. We were talking once about “thin skinned millennials” and he said, “Well, I know a lot thin skinned baby boomers too.” 

"This new generation is soft"

-Person from a generation that drained a swimming pool because a black woman swam in it.

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, Godless said:

"This new generation is soft"

-Person from a generation that drained a swimming pool because a black woman swam in it.

100% correct. So depressing. 

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, Godless said:

"This new generation is soft"

-Person from a generation that drained a swimming pool because a black woman swam in it.

You know, I have a lot of issues with the Boomer generation.  But, in fairness to them--the Boomers were largely the ones who faced down the Klan, the riot dogs, the tear gas, and the fire hoses in order to demand the end of practices such as the ones you decide.

It was the “greatest generation”, and their antecedents, who had the problem with swimming pools.  Then again, they at least defeated the combined forces of Hitler, Hirohito and Mussolini on a global stage and then went on to contain Stalin’s and Mao’s dreams of global domination.  Whatever their problem was, it wasn’t “softness”;  whereas our generation hasn’t really accomplished anything on the worldwide stage except to start a succession of wars and then stab a  parade of international allies in the back when gritty photos circulated by journalists who wanted us to lose those wars, gave us the sadz.

And at the rate we're going, we'll be lucky if fully half of the rising generation ever gets outside enough to even learn how to swim in the first place.  

Edited February 24, 2023 by Just_A_Guy

[mordorbund]

10 hours ago, Traveler said:

He is quite in touch with his millennial generation... [t]he upcoming generation to which he belongs

I'm a bit lost in where this conversation has turned. When everyone's posting about the "rising generation" are they also talking about the millennial generation? The group 27-42 years old? Are "kids these days" old enough to be President?

[LDSGator]

@Just_A_Guy, @NeuroTypical, @Godless-this just randomly popped up on my feed today. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Maybe, just maybe....defining someone by their generation is just as problematic as defining them by their race. 

[Carborendum]

3 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Maybe, just maybe....defining someone by their generation is just as problematic as defining them by their race. 

I would follow my children (the ones 16 and older) before I'd follow many people my own age.

[Guest Godless]

9 hours ago, mordorbund said:

I'm a bit lost in where this conversation has turned. When everyone's posting about the "rising generation" are they also talking about the millennial generation? The group 27-42 years old? Are "kids these days" old enough to be President?

I saw a tweet recently about a millennial who just became a grandparent.