Prison Ministry

[prisonchaplain]

I've reached the halfway point in my 3-week training and look forward to opening up the chapel for programs. One of the most active and well received volunteer groups is the LDS one. I'm eager to meet and work with the volunteers. The fellow that used to come to SeaTac proved very dedicated and pleasant.

Has anyone here done prison ministry for the church? I'd love to hear/read some testimonies. -- PC

[LDSGator]

No, but you truly are doing the work of the Lord bro. The sick need a doctor. 

[NeuroTypical]

10 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Has anyone here done prison ministry for the church?

Not in any official capacity.  But my wife has an online friend who recently did a stint in prison.  Online facebook buddy.  White collar crime.  She was trying to do the right thing, and ended up making a mistake that ticked off someone powerful who brought the full weight of the US Federal Justice system down on her head.  The trial took about a year, she had a good lawyer and got many charges reduced, finally pled to something that carried a year in prison time.  They gave her the date she needed to report to prison, and a pamphlet of instructions to follow.  Her husband and my wife were this lady's support system from the real world.  

Once she reported for her sentence, nobody heard from her for several weeks while she fought through the system for access to email/letters.  But eventually my wife was able to communicate with her.  She had been losing weight, not sleeping, full of anxiety and fear and stress.  Sometimes the heat in her cell gave out, sometimes the commissary just plain old ran out of food except for crackers.  This is a minimum security female prison - one of the "cushy" ones for our "best" (nonviolent, more minor crimes) inmates.

Eventually she levelled out, her weight stabilized, she could sleep slightly better, and she started relaxing a little.  Connection with the outside was an absolute Godsend for her (and I assume any other prisoner that can get it).  Having both a hubby and a friend who were willing to spend energy for her well-being made all the difference in the world.  I don't think my wife ever brought up faith or God once, but they ended up talking about it quite a bit.

Overcrowding and good behavior, meant her 1 year term lasted 6 months, and she was sprung.  Getting out was almost as horrible as going in, again with the weight loss and stress and no sleep.  She had to re-learn how to have and exercise agency, even for the simplest things like when to take a shower.  But hubby was still there, so her recovery went much quicker. 

It's humbling to think about how close we all are, to finding ourselves forced into a stint as the lost sheep, one of the least of the humans.  

I'm a big fan of you and what you do, @prisonchaplain.  Say hi to the LDS missionaries you see!   Make sure you tell 'em you once moderated a Mormon forum for us!

Edited July 20, 2023 by NeuroTypical

[Vort]

How tragic. I have only the vaguest idea of how such things work. I have known my whole life that I am naive, but it appears almost all of us are naive. And those who are not naive (or who are less so) too often are hardened and cynical. God help us.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Vort

[LDSGator]

41 minutes ago, Vort said:

but it appears almost all of us are naive

100% correct, but you are three steps ahead of everyone because you admit it. 

[Ironhold]

12 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

I've reached the halfway point in my 3-week training and look forward to opening up the chapel for programs. One of the most active and well received volunteer groups is the LDS one. I'm eager to meet and work with the volunteers. The fellow that used to come to SeaTac proved very dedicated and pleasant.

Has anyone here done prison ministry for the church? I'd love to hear/read some testimonies. -- PC

My parents did prison ministry until COVID shut that down. 

One thing you need to be aware of is that the guards can and will be mercurial at times. They have all sorts of ways to frustrate ministers and other individuals they don't like, and losing your temper can retroactively "justify" their decision to not want to let you in. You'll need to have patience no matter who you're dealing with. 

[mikbone]

In residency we worked in a prison with some inmates that the guards noted were very dangerous people.  Many with mental illness.

All the inmates that I interacted with were very well behaved and thankful.  Way better than many of the general population.

You could always tell how ‘dangerous’ they were by the number of guards that accompanied each inmate.  Some they refused to remove their cuffs and chains.  A few were not allowed to even come to the in-house clinic.  We were escorted to view them outside of the cell - even these guys were pleasant and thankful.

Not a single resident ever had an issue for like 20 years.  

If you treat people respectfully they usually with return the good will.

 

[estradling75]

The closest I have come to a prison ministry is when I escorted two young teenagers to prison to visit their father.  He was in jail for murdering their mother, and the kids needed adult escorts to and from the jail.

 

 

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, estradling75 said:

The closest I have come to a prison ministry is when I escorted two young teenagers to prison to visit their father.  He was in jail for murdering their mother, and the kids needed adult escorts to and from the jail.

 

 

I have to ask-how did you end up escorting them?

[estradling75]

9 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I have to ask-how did you end up escorting them?

The dad wanted to see his kids (when he was allowed to). The kids wanted to see their dad, there was really no other family available.  They were member of my stake and a family in my stake had taken the kids in.  The family that took them in really did some great Christian service work there.  But everyone knew it was a lot of work, so the stake ask for volunteers to help.  That got me.

I have to admit going to jail for the first time even as a visitor was a bit unsettling.  Going to visit a convict murderer even more so.  I didn't have much interaction with him, but when I did he thanked me for giving up my Sunday afternoon with my family so he could have time with his, and his general politeness and demeanor reminded me of a former bishop.

I clearly still have work to do on my own levels of charity, because to this day I still have difficultly reconciling what I knew about him and what I experienced from him

[LDSGator]

6 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

The dad wanted to see his kids (when he was allowed to). The kids wanted to see their dad, there was really no other family available.  They were member of my stake and a family in my stake had taken the kids in.  The family that took them in really did some great Christian service work there.  But everyone knew it was a lot of work, so the stake ask for volunteers to help.  That got me.

I have to admit going to jail for the first time even as a visitor was a bit unsettling.  Going to visit a convict murderer even more so.  I didn't have much interaction with him, but when I did he thanked me for giving up my Sunday afternoon with my family so he could have time with his, and his general politeness and demeanor reminded me of a former bishop.

I clearly still have work to do on my own levels of charity, because to this day I still have difficultly reconciling what I knew about him and what I experienced from him

Very cool. Thanks. 

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, estradling75 said:

I clearly still have work to do on my own levels of charity, because to this day I still have difficultly reconciling what I knew about him and what I experienced from him

I found this guy on TikTok a while ago.  Behind bars for a lot of years, for stuff he deserved.  Sprung, he got a cell phone and started making videos about his experiences before, during, and after incarceration.  Quite a bit of eye opening stuff.   If you're wondering how to love thy neighbor when thinking about prisoners, this guy does an excellent job of letting you see the humans in the system.

https://www.youtube.com/@second_chancer

[LDSGator]

4 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

how to love thy neighbor when thinking about prisoners

Dude it’s 2023. We should all try loving our political opponents first then we can work on prisoners. 😜

[prisonchaplain]

9 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm a big fan of you and what you do, @prisonchaplain.  Say hi to the LDS missionaries you see!   Make sure you tell 'em you once moderated a Mormon forum for us!

Thank you for the testimony. I never try to be judge or jury. A common saying in prisons (federal and state) is, "They are here AS punishment not FOR punishment." Also, "Reentry begins the first day of incarceration." So, it's always hard to hear about how difficult some find prison--and how prison systems sometimes fall short. 

BTW, I believe the church usually sends volunteers (perhaps through the calling system), not missionaries. I may make mention of moderating a forum--but only if it comes up organically. The focus is empowering the incarcerated to explore faith. My role is to empower volunteers to bring their best. 

[prisonchaplain]

7 hours ago, Ironhold said:

My parents did prison ministry until COVID shut that down. 

One thing you need to be aware of is that the guards can and will be mercurial at times. They have all sorts of ways to frustrate ministers and other individuals they don't like, and losing your temper can retroactively "justify" their decision to not want to let you in. You'll need to have patience no matter who you're dealing with. 

On the flip side, a minister once walked into the program room while the lights were out. The officer (we don't call them guards anymore) tried to explain why she should not walk into a room when the lights were out because it was not safe, and she snapped, "I'm a minister. I can't think that way!!" The officer let me know and I counseled the volunteer to listen respectfully to officers. She did not have to think like one, but she needed to heed their counsel. 😉 

[Carborendum]

@prisonchaplain, I was happy to hear about your un-retirement.    But as others have done, I'll share my experiences as well.  

I had two experiences--one jail, one prison.  

JAIL:  This probably is a bad example of how one should "visit those in prison."  But that was all I could muster at that point.

I was a missionary who had just gotten contacted by a less active family.  The father of the family was just arrested and no one would tell us why.  But we were asked to go visit him in jail as he awaited trial.

** see "INTERLUDE" at the bottom of this post after reading the two visits.

Our inmate came into the vestibule.  We got on our side and spoke over the phone.  We got to talking and got to a point he decided to talk about what landed him in there.  I won't go over the details.  But he admitted to a crime while not admitting to the crime.  And the crime made my feelings of revulsion come up.  And I wanted to break through the glass to bonk him on the head to knock some sense into him.  I was 19 or 20.  He was in his 40s.  And I just wanted to scream "YES!  YOU IDIOT!  WHAT YOU DID WAS BOTH MORALLY WRONG AND ILLEGAL!"  But I simply said nothing and tried to give a calm a response as I could.

A day or two later, we visited with the family.  And I was shocked at how messed up the whole family was.  And they all blamed the daughter for "all the trouble she caused" for her dad.  The daughter was taken from the family at the time of arrest.

As we got out to our car, my companion and I looked at each other (we had not yet discussed anything with each other about anything).  I asked, "Did you feel the same thing I did?"  He nodded solemnly, "I'm pretty sure."  We didn't talk to anyone in the family again.  I don't know what happened to anyone.  And my companion and I never spoke of that family again.  Yes, we were being judgmental.  No, it was not Christlike.  But I couldn't help but think, "Yup.  They're less active for a reason."  I really wish I could have been more Christlike.  I really wished I had charity in my heart.  But that is the thought that went through my head.

PRISON: I was older and more experienced with life and people.  I think I did a better job.

An elderly woman in the ward had an adult son in prison.  He was about to be released.  And she wanted someone to go visit him to try to help his transition into real life again.  I volunteered to go visit him.

I went to the prison.  It wasn't maximum security.  I don't think it was minimum either.  But we were allowed to be in the same room.  We didn't have to talk through glass.  But the man at the counter emphasized that I was not allowed to touch him.  He emphasized it again when I stood up to greet the inmate and looked as if I might shake hands with him.

I was in my early 30s.  And the young man was in his early to mid 20s.  We had a nice talk.  He told me he was guilty of assault (it may have been gang related -- I don't really remember).  He had lost his temper.  It wasn't hospitalization type assault. But he did hurt someone, and he was charged for it. I talked about my history with keeping my temper.  And I told him that there were two things that kept me out of prison: 1) My dad's firm hand to my backside on many occasions.  2) The gospel of Jesus Christ.

He said that he knew that some Korean gangs were among the meanest on the streets.  I told him I didn't know anything about that.  But I did know that Koreans tend to have a reputation among the Oriental nations to have a fierce temper just as the Irish have such a temper among the anglo-saxon clans.  -- strange thing to bond over, but we did.

After the conversation, we made an agreement that he would see me at church when he got out.  We stood up.  The guy at the window reminded me again that it was a no-touch visit.  We said goodbye.

Some time passed later, he came up to me in sacrament meeting to shake my hand.  He wanted to thank me because I was the only one who ever visited him aside from his mom.

I guess you could say we became friends.  I did give him a ride to and from work when other means fell through.  I appreciated the fact that I wasn't his default ride.  But it was nice to help out from time-to-time.  He seemed to be adjusting to the outside world well.  My family moved to Colorado some time later.  We lost contact.

** Interlude about the drunk guy:

While we were at the jail, waiting the father's appearance at the vestibule (phone-through-the-glass) a drunk guy came in from the street to talk to a friend who was in the jail.  But he never actually got to see him.  I was seated on a bench (like a Forrest Gump type park bench) with my legs stretched forward and my ankles crossed.  As you probably guessed, he walked over my ankles and tripped onto the floor. He had a look of shock and awe -- almost anger/offense as if I tripped him on purpose.  But he was in no condition to physically react or anything.  I was trying to figure out what to do with him.  He was so large, it would be laughable for someone of my slight build to help him up.  And my companion was not much bigger.  We both looked at each other as if to ask, "What are we supposed to do with him?"  We both shrugged our shoulders.

I have no idea from that point what happened to the drunk guy after we were called to the vestibule.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Carborendum

[prisonchaplain]

So much could be said @Carborendum. Suffice to say you did great work "visiting those in prison." During the jail incident you kept your young adult feelings to yourself. You could not be Christlike because Jesus actually knew people's hearts. You had your intuition, but remained calm and did your best for that stage in life at listening to the Holy Spirit. The fact that you believed the person was rebelling against God and society was probably more right than sin--especially since you checked yourself and attempted to let God lead. Try not to hold on to unmerited guilt. The accuser of the brethren (Satan) is the guiltiest one of all. 

[NeuroTypical]

Excellent post @Carborendum

 

12 hours ago, Carborendum said:

The father of the family was just arrested and no one would tell us why.  [...] I was shocked at how messed up the whole family was.  And they all blamed the daughter for "all the trouble she caused" for her dad.  

Heh.  It's astounding how common this story is.  Close families (or, at least families who wish to appear as good families to their neighbors) will sometimes punish the boatrocker  instead.  They think "Whatever dad did pales in significance to the HORRIBLE DAUGHTER that WENT PUBLIC and now EVERYONE KNOWS."  Or the wife simply can't bring herself to accept who she married, so she blames her daughter instead.  

In rape crisis centers across our nation (maybe across the world), there are victims coming to grips with the fact that the way their family is reacting, is more horrible than the actual assault they're supposed to be in crisis about.

Everyone go watch Encanto again.  Look really, really closely at Abuela.  Literally willing to discard the offspring that threatens how the community perceives the family.  

 

12 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Yes, we were being judgmental.  No, it was not Christlike.  But I couldn't help but think, "Yup.  They're less active for a reason."  I really wish I could have been more Christlike.  I really wished I had charity in my heart.

Totally understand.  That's a lot of people.  That was me, until I was forced to work my way through a similar situation I could not ignore with various in-laws.  I came out the other side with my discipleship and faith intact, a testimony on the power of forgiveness, and a conceal-carry permit.  

 

12 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Some time passed later, he came up to me in sacrament meeting to shake my hand.  He wanted to thank me because I was the only one who ever visited him aside from his mom.

Yep.  Advice for any one: A contact, any contact, from the outside world can literally be a Godsend that makes a permanent lifelong difference in an inmate's life.  You don't have to let them know where you live.  You don't have to be in contact after they get out.  You don't have to like them, or agree with what they've done.  But when you visit a prisoner, you can do God's work.  It really is a way to be a disciple of Christ by just standing somewhere with a dumb look on your face.

"I don't know what to think about you.  I don't know if I can ever forgive you.  I'm full of rage just looking at you.  But you're in there and I'm out here, and everyone is a child of God, so I'm here visiting you because you're human."

Keep in mind, for every heart you touch, there could be 10-100 people who try to manipulate you for their benefit.  That's the game in prison - work your leverage, and get more leverage to work.  Don't be conned.  But you can be strong and loving. You can offer to give him information about education, job prospects, urge him to pass the programs they want him to pass in prison.  But you have to be strong enough to not be turned into his pawn.

My wife is good online friends with lots of people she will never give her address to.  She keeps the town, even the county where we live intentionally vague.  But if your uncle or guy you knew from work is doing his nickel, your visit could change his life. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by NeuroTypical

[Phoenix_person]

Of course PC came back right after I deleted my account. 😒 Welcome back! Sorry I won't be around much anymore. The only reason I saw this post is because I accidentally left the site open on my laptop's browser (I usually browse/post from my phone).

I don't have any experience with prison, but I wanted to share my experience from an extended hospital stay I had last year. I imagine there may be some parallels with your experiences. I won't go into detail about what happened to put me in the hospital, except to say that it was self-inflicted. I was in the hospital for 4.5 months. My parents came out from PA at the beginning, and my estranged wife brought my son to visit a few times (it was tricky to arrange visits with him because kids technically weren't allowed on the unit).

But for the most part, most of my human interaction was with nurses and the chaplain assigned to that part of the hospital. They came to visit me almost daily for most of the duration of my stay there, and I still make a point to stop by their office and say hi whenever I'm up there for followup clinic appointments. I'll never forget what they said to me on one of my lowest days, "You didn't do this to yourself. Your mind did it to you, so cut yourself some [freaking] slack." They were a friend to me when I needed one most, and I'll always be indescribably grateful for that. I wasn't incarcerated or dying, but I was grieving badly for several weeks. They helped me see that one horrific decision doesn't need to define me or haunt me forever, a sentiment that I'm sure many of your inmates can appreciate. I didn't die that day, but I like to think that some of the worst parts of my psyche did.

-Godless

Edited July 24, 2023 by Phoenix_person

[NeuroTypical]

Glad you're still around Godless (even if you won't be around here much any more).  World's a better place with you in it.

[LDSGator]

7 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

World's a better place with you in it.

100% agree.