Another Utah influencer arrested, or, pride cycles

[Suzie]

22 hours ago, mirkwood said:

My only issue with your last sentence is it appears you are implying that only LDS counselors are abusers.  As you will see below, that is not the case. 

 

Doing due diligence in your research for any counselor is wise.

 

 

Therapist sex abuse case reveals dark past, ethical concerns (boston.com)

 

Wisconsin therapist charged with sexual exploitation of a client | Fox News

 

Counselor at Boulder Mental Health Facility Arrested for Sexual Assault, Police Looking For Other Victims – Citizens Commission on Human Rights of Colorado (psychiatricfraud.org)

 

 

 

I don't think my last sentence implies that only LDS counselors are abusers because obviously it isn't the case. But let me explain again in case my comment was misunderstood. I just speak out against choosing a mental health professional solely based on their Church/religious affiliation.  I observe this often and it has become a serious concern for both clients and professionals who are out there trying their best. Being an LDS counselor doesn't automatically make you a good professional and yes it applies to every other religion but the reason I mentioned this specifically is because Bishops recommended Jodi Hildebrandt and clearly, members trusted the suggestion. I was trying to explain this to my sister but all I can say is that she has been living in UT for too long.

[Just_A_Guy]

4 hours ago, Suzie said:

I don't think my last sentence implies that only LDS counselors are abusers because obviously it isn't the case. But let me explain again in case my comment was misunderstood. I just speak out against choosing a mental health professional solely based on their Church/religious affiliation.  I observe this often and it has become a serious concern for both clients and professionals who are out there trying their best. Being an LDS counselor doesn't automatically make you a good professional and yes it applies to every other religion but the reason I mentioned this specifically is because Bishops recommended Jodi Hildebrandt and clearly, members trusted the suggestion. I was trying to explain this to my sister but all I can say is that she has been living in UT for too long.

I get where you’re going here; and generally agree.  But I would note that I think it’s a rare Saint who vets potential counselors solely on their Church membership status or hires the first Mormon counselor they run across.

I cannot speak as to the particular case under discussion in this thread.  But I stand by my general comments earlier in this thread and will propose that the problem with most of the nominally/formerly LDS families who wound up in the news over the past few years isn’t that they listened to their bishops too much; it’s that they didn’t listen to their bishops closely enough.  

Edited September 9, 2023 by Just_A_Guy

[Anddenex]

On 9/7/2023 at 8:06 PM, LDSGator said:

I’ve met many people who have an odd fear of counseling and therapy. I’m not sure why-is it just a generation gap?

I'm not sure I would say I fear, but I definitely am cautious about counseling and therapy. The reason is due to my college experience and degree (Major: Marriage, Family, and Human Development; Minor: Psychology).

One class really opened my mind regarding this caution, and the counsel and guidance of some therapies that people would be willing to participate in and perform on children.

Because it was under the umbrella of "science," and there was "research" behind it -- it was accepted an practiced. This made it very clear how important it was to be "wise" when considering a counselor/therapist and the methods they accepted as good and wholesome.

Jacob's counsel/teaching is relevant in this area, "O be wise, what can I say more."

[Suzie]

10 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I get where you’re going here; and generally agree.  But I would note that I think it’s a rare Saint who vets potential counselors solely on their Church membership status or hires the first Mormon counselor they run across.

I cannot speak as to the particular case under discussion in this thread.  But I stand by my general comments earlier in this thread and will propose that the problem with most of the nominally/formerly LDS families who wound up in the news over the past few years isn’t that they listened to their bishops too much; it’s that they didn’t listen to their bishops closely enough.  

I can confirm it isn't as rare as we think it is. Unfortunately, there is a lot of work to be done to change this mindset.

About your second point, it seems to me that LDS members who wound up in the news over the past few years had clear traits of being part of dysfunctional families prior to becoming internet celebrities. Narcissism is on the rise thanks (in part) to social media.

[LDSGator]

2 hours ago, Suzie said:

Narcissism is on the rise thanks (in part) to social media.

Social media isn’t the issue. It’s human nature. Technology has changed, but people have not.

One could also argue that everyone, including you and me, have narcissistic tendencies. If we had the talent to become influencers I’m 100% confident that all of us here would watch our egos grow.  It’s just a matter that none of us are that influential. It’s easy for us sitting on the couch to lecture others about social media, ego…while we are on a social media platform too. 
 

It’s also harder in this era simply because more people use social media to communicate and share the gospel. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by LDSGator

[Carborendum]

2 hours ago, Suzie said:

I can confirm it isn't as rare as we think it is.

Based on???

[Backroads]

21 hours ago, Suzie said:

I don't think my last sentence implies that only LDS counselors are abusers because obviously it isn't the case. But let me explain again in case my comment was misunderstood. I just speak out against choosing a mental health professional solely based on their Church/religious affiliation.  I observe this often and it has become a serious concern for both clients and professionals who are out there trying their best. Being an LDS counselor doesn't automatically make you a good professional and yes it applies to every other religion but the reason I mentioned this specifically is because Bishops recommended Jodi Hildebrandt and clearly, members trusted the suggestion. I was trying to explain this to my sister but all I can say is that she has been living in UT for too long.

I see what you're saying. I think that many people want a counselor that has some understanding of their faith. I agree with JaG that it's likely rare to have that as the only qualification. But I see the appeal. When I talked to a counselor I profiled for one that did include faith (general Christianity)

[Just_A_Guy]

Ruby Franke pled out today.  The plea statement included additional details that  are not for the faint-of-heart.

[zil2]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Ruby Franke pled out today.  The plea statement included additional details that  are not for the faint-of-heart.

Quote

Franke agreed to serve consecutive prison terms for all four counts, which each carry a potential prison term of between 1 - 15 years

If they don't give her the maximum on all those counts, whoever is responsible for not giving the max should have to serve the difference!  This woman should never be free again.  (Neither of them.)

[LDSGator]

17 hours ago, zil2 said:

If they don't give her the maximum on all those counts, whoever is responsible for not giving the max should have to serve the difference!  This woman should never be free again.  (Neither of them.)

Amen. 

[Backroads]

23 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Ruby Franke pled out today.  The plea statement included additional details that  are not for the faint-of-heart.

I was sick when I read said details. 

I'm quite sure Hildebrandt made things worse, but she was only working with what Jodi was already doing.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Backroads

[Backroads]

So Hildebrandt also pled guilty today. I'm still flummoxed by the circles of logic these women had and the sudden alleged recognition of the damage they had done. 

[Just_A_Guy]

The Washington County Attorney’s Office released a lot of its evidence in the case last week, and gave interviews to 20/20, which did an episode on it.  First ten minutes are on YouTube:

Incidentally, Ruby’s “torture journal” mentions that Hildebrandt had met with Brad Wilcox (counselor in YM General Presidency) and Elder Jaggi (of the 70).  Which has the Reddit and exmo crowd gleefully offering all kinds of speculation and conspiracy theories.  

Glad I’m not doing PR for the Church this month.  

Edited March 28, 2024 by Just_A_Guy

[LDSGator]

10 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

 

 

Glad I’m not doing PR for the Church this month.  

I agree that it’s a rough week for PR in SLC. There is no good news to come from this story, but none of my friends have asked me about her case. Usually when LDS news goes mainstream my friends will ask me about it because I’m the only LDS they know. 

[mikbone]

11 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Glad I’m not doing PR for the Church this month.  

Dude, you are killing me.  Totally agree.

[mikbone]

The house totally freaked me out.  10,000 sq ft, dark, cluttered, empty rooms, safe room.

Gave me a H. H. Holmes vibe.

Good thing I wasn’t the police officer that showed up on her porch with her claiming her attorney is on the phone.

Also, not an influencer fan.

Edited March 28, 2024 by mikbone

[The Folk Prophet]

20 minutes ago, mikbone said:

The house totally freaked me out.  10,000 sq ft, dark, cluttered, empty rooms, safe room.

Gave me a H. H. Holmes vibe.

The creepy music they added helped.

[LDSGator]

5 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

The creepy music they added helped.

Dude you should totally make musical about this. Sweeney Todd 2.0! 

[JohnsonJones]

6 hours ago, mikbone said:

The house totally freaked me out.  10,000 sq ft, dark, cluttered, empty rooms, safe room.

Gave me a H. H. Holmes vibe.

Good thing I wasn’t the police officer that showed up on her porch with her claiming her attorney is on the phone.

Also, not an influencer fan.

 

Thing I think was the scariest were Police were going through the house at the ready position, as if they were ready to shoot someone or expected someone to come out attacking them. 

Weird position to have when trying to find kids in a house.  If I were that kid I'd be afraid as well.  Still holding the gun as they talked to the kid at first also???  What were they thinking the kid was going to do???

Not sure it's a good look for the department on that point. 

Another unanswered question, why was Hildebrandt on her phone with her attorney?  Was she aware she had done something questionable already and wanted to have the attorney ready the instant the authorities showed up?

The video leaves me with more questions than answers.  Maybe that's what it's supposed to do as I expect it's an advertisement for a show?

[mirkwood]

15 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Weird position to have when trying to find kids in a house.  If I were that kid I'd be afraid as well.  Still holding the gun as they talked to the kid at first also???  What were they thinking the kid was going to do???

Not sure it's a good look for the department on that point. 

Thing I think was the scariest were Police were going through the house at the ready position, as if they were ready to shoot someone or expected someone to come out attacking them. 

 

Standard building clearing tactics. I think you're looking for a reason to complain about the police.

 

 

Quote

Weird position to have when trying to find kids in a house.  If I were that kid I'd be afraid as well.  Still holding the gun as they talked to the kid at first also???  What were they thinking the kid was going to do???

 

 

Standard building clearance tactics, rifle slung downwards.  I think you're looking for a reason to complain about the police.

 

 

Quote

Not sure it's a good look for the department on that point. 

 

Wrong.  See above.

[mirkwood]

Horrible women, I hope they get lengthy prison sentences.

[LDSGator]

18 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Horrible women, I hope they get lengthy prison sentences.

@Just_A_Guy and @mirkwood

Is Utah known for harsh sentences?

[mirkwood]

5 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

@Just_A_Guy and @mirkwood

Is Utah known for harsh sentences?

Define what you mean by "harsh."

[LDSGator]

8 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Define what you mean by "harsh."

Sure. Is it like California or some nutty place where criminals get a slap on the wrist? Or do the punishments generally fit the crime? 

[NeuroTypical]

Take my anecdote for what it's worth:

Years ago, wife and I helped put a Utah child molester behind bars.  He was accused of a dozen counts over the span of a year - abusing his niece.   It was an "aggravated" felony because he was in a position of trust.  Basically, extra horrible, carries extra penalties than just plain old child sex abuse.  He pled guilty to one count, the sentence was 5-life.  He was up for a parole hearing 4 years in, but he hadn't availed himself of any of the programs for sex offenders who want parole, so it was not granted.  He made parole the next year, a few months shy of a full 5 years.

I've heard stories of similar sentences for similar crimes in other states.

Edited March 29, 2024 by NeuroTypical