Favoring Israel

[prisonchaplain]

In reviewing my last post, I realized that I got to preaching. Occupational hazard, I guess. 😉

[Carborendum]

18 hours ago, askandanswer said:

God's gift of the land of Israel to the Jews

...

But I think it means that they can't claim a divine right. 

26 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

In reviewing my last post, I realized that I got to preaching. Occupational hazard, I guess. 😉

It happens.  But I agree with you.  We do not preach replacement theology.  As the Lord's Ancient Covenant People, they still hold a special place in the theological history of the world and the events that are about to unfold.

Early LDS Apostle, Orson Hyde, was sent on a mission to dedicate the land of Israel to the return of the Jews.

Here is a journal entry (as a letter) from Elder Hyde. 

https://www.vibrationdata.com/Orson_Hyde.htm

There is quite a bit of narrative before and after the prayer that is enlightening.

I'll post the dedicatory prayer here:

Quote

"O Thou! who art from everlasting to everlasting, eternally and unchangeably the same, even the God who rules in the heavens above, and controls the destinies of men on the earth, wilt Thou not condescend, through thine infinite goodness and royal favor, to listen to the prayer of Thy servant which he this day offers up unto Thee in the name of Thy holy child Jesus, upon this land, where the Son of Righteousness set in blood, and thine Anointed One expired.

"Be pleased, O Lord, to forgive all the follies, weaknesses, vanities, and sins of Thy servant, and strengthen him to resist all future temptations. Give him prudence and discernment that he may avoid the evil, and a heart to choose the good; give him fortitude to bear up under trying and adverse circumstances, and grace to endure all things for Thy name's sake, until the end shall come, when all the Saints shall rest in peace.

"Now, O Lord! Thy servant has been obedient to the heavenly vision which Thou gavest him in his native land; and under the shadow of Thine outstretched arm, he has safely arrived in this place to dedicate and consecrate this land unto Thee, for the gathering together of Judah's scattered remnants, according to the predictions of the holy Prophets -- for the building up of Jerusalem again after it has been trodden down by the Gentiles so long, and for rearing a Temple in honor of Thy name. Everlasting thanks be ascribed unto Thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that Thou hast preserved Thy servant from the dangers of the seas, and from the plague and pestilence which have caused the land to mourn. The violence of man has also been restrained, and Thy providential care by night and by day has been exercised over Thine unworthy servant. Accept, therefore, O Lord, the tribute of a grateful heart for all past favors, and be pleased to continue Thy kindness and mercy towards a needy worm of the dust.

"O Thou, Who didst covenant with Abraham, Thy friend, and who didst renew that covenant with Isaac, and confirm the same with Jacob with an oath, that Thou wouldst not only give them this land for an everlasting inheritance, but that Thou wouldst also remember their seed forever. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have long since closed their eyes in death, and made the grave their mansion. Their children are scattered and dispersed abroad among the nations of the Gentiles like sheep that have no shepherd, and are still looking forward for the fulfillment of those promises which Thou didst make concerning them; and even this land, which once poured forth nature's richest bounty, and flowed, as it were, with milk and honey, has, to a certain extent, been smitten with barrenness and sterility since it drank from murderous hands the blood of Him who never sinned.

"Grant, therefore, O Lord, in the name of Thy well-beloved Son, Jesus Christ, to remove the barrenness and sterility of this land, and let springs of living water break forth to water its thirsty soil. Let the vine and olive produce in their strength, and the fig-tree bloom and flourish. Let the land become abundantly fruitful when possessed by its rightful heirs; let it again flow with plenty to feed the returning prodigals who come home with a spirit of grace and supplication; upon it let the clouds distil virtue and richness, and let the fields smile with plenty. Let the flocks and the herds greatly increase and multiply upon the mountains and the hills; and let Thy great kindness conquer and subdue the unbelief of Thy people. Do Thou take from them their stony heart, and give them a heart of flesh; and may the Sun of Thy favor dispel the cold mists of darkness which have beclouded their atmosphere. Incline them to gather in upon this land according to Thy word. Let them come like clouds and like doves to their windows. Let the large ships of the nations bring them from the distant isles; and let kings become their nursing fathers, and queens with motherly fondness wipe the tear of sorrow from their eye.

"Thou, O Lord, did once move upon the heart of Cyrus to show favor unto Jerusalem and her children. Do Thou now also be pleased to inspire the hearts of kings and the powers of the earth to look with a friendly eye towards this place, and with a desire to see Thy righteous purposes executed in relation thereto. Let them know that it is Thy good pleasure to restore the kingdom unto Israel -- raise up Jerusalem as its capital, and constitute her people a distinct nation and government, with David Thy servant, even a descendant from the loins of ancient David to be their king.

"Let that nation or that people who shall take an active part in behalf of Abraham's children, and in the raising up of Jerusalem, find favor in Thy sight. Let not their enemies prevail against them, neither let pestilence or famine overcome them, but let the glory of Israel overshadow them, and the power of the Highest protect them; while that nation or kingdom that will not serve Thee in this glorious work must perish, according to Thy word --- Yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

"Though Thy servant is now far from his home, and from the land bedewed with his earliest tear, yet he remembers, O Lord, his friend: who are there, and family, whom for Thy sake he has left. Though poverty and privation be our earthly lot, yet ah! do Thou richly endow us with an inheritance where moth and rust do not corrupt, and where thieves do not break through and steal.

"The hands that have fed, clothed, or shown favor unto the family of Thy servant in his absence, or that shall hereafter do so, let them not lose their reward, but let a special blessing rest upon them, and in Thy kingdom let them have an inheritance when Thou shalt come to be glorified in this society.

"Do Thou also look with favor upon all those through whose liberality I have been enabled to come to this land; and in the day when Thou shalt reward all people according to their works, let these also not be passed by or forgotten, but in time let them be in readiness to enjoy the glory of those mansions which Jesus has gone to prepare. Particularly do Thou bless the stranger in Philadelphia, whom I never saw, but who sent me gold, with a request that I should pray for him in Jerusalem. Now, O Lord, let blessings come upon him from an unexpected quarter, and let his basket be filled, and his storehouse abound with plenty, and let not the good things of the earth be his only portion, but let him be found among those to whom it shall be said, `Thou hast been faithful over a few things, and I will make thee ruler over many.'

"O my Father in heaven! I now ask Thee in the name of Jesus to remember Zion, with all her Stakes, and with all her assemblies. She has been grievously afflicted and smitten; she has mourned; she has wept; her enemies have triumphed, and have said, `Ah, where is thy God?' Her Priests and Prophets have groaned in chains and fetters within the gloomy walls of prisons, while many were slain, and now sleep in the arms of death. How long, O Lord, shall iniquity triumph, and sin go unpunished?

"Do Thou arise in the majesty of Thy strength, and make bare Thine arm in behalf of Thy people. Redress their wrongs, and turn their sorrow into joy. Pour the spirit of light and knowledge, grace and wisdom, into the hearts of her Prophets, and clothe her Priests with salvation. Let light and knowledge march forth through the empire of darkness, and may the honest in heart flow to their standard, and join in the march to go forth to meet the Bridegroom.

"Let a peculiar blessing rest upon the Presidency of Thy Church, for at them are the arrows of the enemy directed. Be Thou to them a sun and a shield, their strong tower and hiding place; and in the time of distress or danger be Thou near to deliver. Also the quorum of the Twelve, do Thou be pleased to stand by them for Thou knowest the obstacles which they have to encounter, the temptations to which they are exposed, and the privations which they must suffer. Give us, [the Twelve] therefore, strength according to our day, and help us to bear a faithful testimony of Jesus and His Gospel, to finish with fidelity and honor the work which Thou hast given us to do, and then give us a place in Thy glorious kingdom. And let this blessing rest upon every faithful officer and member in Thy Church. And all the glory and honor will we ascribe unto God and the Lamb forever and ever. Amen."

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Carborendum

[zil2]

3 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Jesus forgives 70X7.

[CV75]

4 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

In reviewing my last post, I realized that I got to preaching. Occupational hazard, I guess. 😉

You didn't say, "Can I get an Amen?" so I didn't take it that way  

[askandanswer]

5 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

In reviewing my last post, I realized that I got to preaching. Occupational hazard, I guess. 😉

@prisonchaplain I think as long as we have people on here like @Carborendum and @LDSGatorperhaps you could consider doubling your preaching or using the "extra strength" version.

[askandanswer]

12 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Jesus forgives 70X7

hmm, based on my age, life expectancy and frequency of sin I think I'd better cut back a bit on the slothfulness and gluttony for a while, I’m getting a bit too close to 70 X 7. It looks like I can safely afford to start being more wrathful and envious. If I can get @Just_A_Guy to represent me at the crucial moment, maybe I won't even need to cut back on the sloth.

[prisonchaplain]

This from Christianity.com:

The point is not to get fixed on a specific number, checklist, or scorecard as Peter was doing. The phrase “seventy times seven,” which we first encounter in Genesis 4:24, is a certain number used to signal an uncertain, nearly indescribable amount. According to R.C. Sproul, when Peter asked Jesus how many times he should forgive, Jesus essentially told him, “As many times as it takes”

[prisonchaplain]

14 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

 

I've got a witness!

[askandanswer]

6 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

According to R.C. Sproul, when Peter asked Jesus how many times he should forgive, Jesus essentially told him, “As many times as it takes”

This is great news! It looks like I can get rid of the sin tracker and that I won't need JAG

[Carborendum]

18 hours ago, askandanswer said:

@prisonchaplain I think as long as we have people on here like @Carborendum and @LDSGatorperhaps you could consider doubling your preaching or using the "extra strength" version.

I'm not sure which I feel worse about.  Being told that PC should make greater efforts to preach to me, or being compared with Gator.

[LDSGator]

18 hours ago, askandanswer said:

@prisonchaplain I think as long as we have people on here like @Carborendum and @LDSGatorperhaps you could consider doubling your preaching or using the "extra strength" version.

Lol! 

[mrmarklin]

On 11/15/2023 at 2:40 PM, mikbone said:

I’m not trying to leap to any conclusion.  I’m leaving my options open.  

McConkie put forth the idea that they would come from SLC Headquarters.

I’m gonna be on the lookout for any prophets causing a ruckus in 🇮🇱.  

From what I gather, they won’t be in 3 piece suits and ties.  And my imagination pictures a couple guys in the prime of their life.  I could be wrong as always though.

Not going to delay the day of my repentance until 2 of our GAs get stuck in Jerusalem.

Let's see what the scripture actually says.

3 And I will give ^apower unto my two ^bwitnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to ^aturn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all ^bplagues, as often as they will.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall ^aovercome them, and ^bkill them.

I personally believe that they will be LDS missionaries.  Not necessarily GAs.  With the advent of the internet, certainly with the power against their enemies, that will not be able to control their preaching, they will be hated, and be what we call today "influencers".

Remember, the whole world will be watching, and later in the chapter (after the resurrection of the "prophets") the Lord basically declares all governments null and void and that He is taking over.

It will certainly dominate the news!!!

 

[mikbone]

2 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

I personally believe that they will be LDS missionaries. 

Could be…

1260 days is 3.45 years.

2 years of Southern Chile was all I could handle.

Could be a mission president…

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by mikbone

[prisonchaplain]

18 hours ago, askandanswer said:

This is great news! It looks like I can get rid of the sin tracker and that I won't need JAG

I can meet you half way. Regardless of how much Heavenly Father forgives us, we need JAG. 😌

[LDSGator]

Speaking of Israel, if you want to see a nasty little civil war Google “Ben Shapiro and Candace Owens” 

[prisonchaplain]

I've seen YouTube videos of that civil war and think Owens was the more guilty party. She seemed to react to the Israel/Hamas conflict as if there was moral equivalence. When Shapiro said that her reaction was disgusting (keep in mind that she is very familiar with Jewish conservatives, so she knows the perspective), she responded by quoting the New Testament (she knows Shapiro is Jewish). Her supporters argue that Shapiro was unprofessional because he didn't speak to her privately. Sorry, but given the gravity of the issue and my sense that she knew what she was doing, I blame her. 

[mikbone]

https://www.vanquishthefoe.com/platform/amp/2023/11/3/23942229/qb-jake-retzlaff-makes-byu-more-diverse-on-and-off-the-field

Starting QB last few weeks @ BYU…  Jewish.

ATM 7-7 vs Oklahoma.

Edited November 18, 2023 by mikbone

[Traveler]

19 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

I've seen YouTube videos of that civil war and think Owens was the more guilty party. She seemed to react to the Israel/Hamas conflict as if there was moral equivalence. When Shapiro said that her reaction was disgusting (keep in mind that she is very familiar with Jewish conservatives, so she knows the perspective), she responded by quoting the New Testament (she knows Shapiro is Jewish). Her supporters argue that Shapiro was unprofessional because he didn't speak to her privately. Sorry, but given the gravity of the issue and my sense that she knew what she was doing, I blame her. 

I have checked out the civil war between Shapiro and Owens.  Both arguments are sound.  There are at least two problems with war.  The first is the willingness to do whatever is necessary to win the war and the second is living with ourselves after we have done it.   We call it collateral damage.  It is the excuse for doing something horrible in order to hopefully avoid something worse.  Today we know that dropping the A-bomb on Japan was not actually necessary.  Japan was willing to surrender but there was a misconception in what unconditional surrender meant.

One of the problems is doing what you think is necessary in war and discovering after the fact that it was not.  The other problem is that it is worse to lose a conflict when it could have been won but you were not willing to do what was necessary.  Owens is arguing New Testament arguments and Shapiro is arguing Old Testament arguments.  I believe I could argue either and win in the arena of US politics.  But I believe if one is a disciple of Christ – I am more with Owens.  But the argument is not what you or I ought to do.  It is about Israel.  I believe that they have the right to defend themselves because Hamas stepped over the line between good and evil and now what to do to make peace the best human way possible.

I am sorry for Israel because I believe that all the hostages will be lost regardless of what Israel does - the reason they were taken.  The table was set that to deal with Hamas, Israel would, of necessity, lose the moral high ground, considering the loss of collateral damage.  But that is exactly the expectation of Hamas.  The question now is, in the eyes of the world – who is most responsible for the escalation of collateral damage.

I have wondered how it could possibly come to pass that, according to prophesy, the world would turn against Israel.  I believe the more important question is – how quickly can things progress?   And how will those that seek peace will avoid getting caught up with the world and what is happening because of the evil in it.  For LDS we can look to our prophets.  According to our covenants - it is like the snake image on the pole of Moses.  If we look we will be okay - those that do not have such faith will be infected by the poison of the vipers.

 

The Traveler

[Just_A_Guy]

I saw about a 10 minute clip of Candace being interviewed by Tucker Carlson, and the issue came up.  I thought she came across as being very measured and gracious.  I think they’re both right, to a certain extent—there *should* be ongoing dialogue (especially with regard to just how deeply the US should get involved), as Candace says: and a call for permanent ceasefire at this point in time is essentially a call for unfettered Jew-killing, as Ben says.