Epic atheist self-ownage

[Vort]

Drove behind a car yesterday with a bumper sticker that read, "You keep believing. I'll keep evolving."

The thing is, individuals do not evolve. Species evolve. Bloodlines evolve. Groups evolve. Individual organisms simply exist. They may participate in the process of evolution (assuming they procreate), but they do not evolve. So the guy clearly doesn't even understand what organic evolution is.

Meanwhile, his entire point is apparently that those idiot religious folks will just stew in their own ignorance while he, the clear-minded evolutionary atheist, will climb to greater heights. Well, we have already established that the evolutionary atheist doesn't know what he's talking about, so he won't be finding any new peaks of enlightenment with that contemptuous, dismissive attitude. But the religious believer might indeed. And if the believer does find such enlightenment, it will be of a sort invisible to the atheist, since the atheist rejects the entire foundation on which the religious person builds.

Epic self-ownage. Well done, Mister Enlightened Atheist.

[Backroads]

Maybe he was evolving in his personal... Personhood. Or something like that.

[HaggisShuu]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

Drove behind a car yesterday with a bumper sticker that read, "You keep believing. I'll keep evolving."

The thing is, individuals do not evolve. Species evolve. Bloodlines evolve. Groups evolve. Individual organisms simply exist. They may participate in the process of evolution (assuming they procreate), but they do not evolve. So the guy clearly doesn't even understand what organic evolution is.

Meanwhile, his entire point is apparently that those idiot religious folks will just stew in their own ignorance while he, the clear-minded evolutionary atheist, will climb to greater heights. Well, we have already established that the evolutionary atheist doesn't know what he's talking about, so he won't be finding any new peaks of enlightenment with that contemptuous, dismissive attitude. But the religious believer might indeed. And if the believer does find such enlightenment, it will be of a sort invisible to the atheist, since the atheist rejects the entire foundation on which the religious person builds.

Epic self-ownage. Well done, Mister Enlightened Atheist.

Perhaps mean, but here is a collection of memes I find quite funny:

[Traveler]

I would like to post something for atheists.   Most atheists I have known have come from traditional (or creedal) Christian background.    If it was not for LDS theology (which seemingly few atheists seem to know much about – I would not have much regard for the religious side of society.  I can talk to most atheists about my LDS beliefs better than I can talk to the vast majority of traditional Christians.  I do not know about everybody else’s experiences on the forum, but for me, the lack of logic and basic intelligence in the religious community is very frustrating.   Especially if anything to do with science, technology or basic logic is involved – it is like talking to a wall.  Or the three monkeys – that see nothing, hear nothing and say nothing.

But I also would like to say something about evolution.  Another word for evolution is change.  Mostly we think of evolution in terms of genetic changes.  However, the particular bumper sticker referenced by @Vort seems to be referencing evolution is terms of individual intelligence.

Because of the LDS concept of “eternal progression”, I do not feel that we have a dog in the evolution fight between atheists and traditional Christians.  And for those LDS that think we have a dog in that fight – I really think we are more on the side of the atheists than the traditional Christians.  In short – we LDS believe that it is possible to evolve from this mortal human state to a divine state necessary to be compatible to being “One” with G-d himself. 

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

[mikbone]

“Your species is evolving that rapidly.  Remarkable, perhaps while we are sitting here you will grow additional limbs, or develop the ability to breathe under water?”

[Still_Small_Voice]

⁹ But as it is written: “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.”

¹² Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God, that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.

¹³ These things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

¹⁴ But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

-- I Corinthians 2

Carnal minded people know nothing concerning the mysteries or knowledge of spiritual things.  As Alma wrote:  "It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him . . . And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries . . ."  (Alma 12: 9 & 11)

[NeuroTypical]

I have an atheist 'drinking buddy'.  Periodically we get out of work a bit early and head to the open air food court thing across the street, where he has his beer and I have my soda, and we talk.  We both share a passion for vigorous debate and reason and truth, so it's a fun constant stream of ideas and counterideas and arguments and counter arguments.  The main intent is to understand one another and challenge one another in the realm of reason, identifying where we align, where one of us might budge, and where there's a permanent difference in opinion.  Dude is full of humanism, happy with religion when it produces measurable net goods to humans, critical when it doesn't.  He's a living, breathing dictionary definition of verse 14, and he's a pretty good human.  I often tell him I'll put a good word in for him on the other side of the veil.  

We're not out to change the other, except where a convincing enough case can be made that a person claiming to value objective truth will be forced to abandon a belief in favor of a greater one.  From that standpoint, I doubt he'll ever budge in belief of a God, and after a year, I've been given no reason to budge in mine either.   Both of us understand beliefs - that while they are things that can grow and evolve over time, they are not something we can intentionally change.  He understands that I can't chose to not-believe in God, any more than he can chose to believe.  

We have much fun.  

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

I have an atheist 'drinking buddy'.  Periodically we get out of work a bit early and head to the open air food court thing across the street, where he has his beer and I have my soda, and we talk.  We both share a passion for vigorous debate and reason and truth, so it's a fun constant stream of ideas and counterideas and arguments and counter arguments.  The main intent is to understand one another and challenge one another in the realm of reason, identifying where we align, where one of us might budge, and where there's a permanent difference in opinion.  Dude is full of humanism, happy with religion when it produces measurable net goods to humans, critical when it doesn't.  He's a living, breathing dictionary definition of verse 14, and he's a pretty good human.  I often tell him I'll put a good word in for him on the other side of the veil.  

We're not out to change the other, except where a convincing enough case can be made that a person claiming to value objective truth will be forced to abandon a belief in favor of a greater one.  From that standpoint, I doubt he'll ever budge in belief of a God, and after a year, I've been given no reason to budge in mine either.   Both of us understand beliefs - that while they are things that can grow and evolve over time, they are not something we can intentionally change.  He understands that I can't chose to not-believe in God, any more than he can chose to believe.  

We have much fun.  

I worked for a while with an individual that was the head of the Utah chapter of atheists.   For fun he and I decided to have a debate on the question of whether there is a G-d.  This took place in our company’s cafeteria.   We went on and on for a couple of months and attracted a rather large audience (we even had many that worked elsewhere come to listen) – but I realized that our discussion was not getting anywhere.   I finial was inspired to ask Chris to define his notion of G-d.  After his response I conceded the debate to him with the insistence that according to his notions of G-d – I also did not believe in any such being or possibility of such a being either.

When he asked me to define G-d – I presented the two ideas to be coexisting.  The first is that evolution exist and has no limits.  The second is that anything that happens or exists – can be reversed engineered and even improved upon.  I then put forward that since this universe exists and evolution is a principle of this universe – that eventually G-d will evolve or has already evolved.  Then according to Occam’s razor there is a G-d.

 

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

We've never debated the existence of God.  He's content that I'm one of the decent folks who use religious belief to produce good for humans.  I understand that debate and reason will only very rarely lead someone to a belief in God, and I'm content to just let my light so shine as best I can around him.

[HaggisShuu]

34 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

We've never debated the existence of God.  He's content that I'm one of the decent folks who use religious belief to produce good for humans.  I understand that debate and reason will only very rarely lead someone to a belief in God, and I'm content to just let my light so shine as best I can around him.

This is something I really struggle with finding a balance with in my personal life. How to be an effective missionary, I always worry I don't do enough. 
Letting your light shine is probably the most effective method, but the D&C in particular has countless scriptures which specifically state a priesthood responsibility is to call people to repentance. But that's also a really effective way to make you look like a nut in public. And you are right, debate convinces nobody. 
 

I'm am content to do the following:

1) When meeting somebody, use an appropriate way to let them know what Church I belong to fairly early on. (For example at work the other day while on break, there a BBC documentary on TV called "Here come the Mormons" with a colleague who has just moved to my work area. For a laugh I got a personal copy of the book of Mormon out of my locker and allowed a conversation to take place.) 

2) Never force anybody into a conversation, but answer any and all questions I get, and be graceful about anything challenging somebody might say. People often have curiosities as many people in the UK have only ever heard of "Mormons" not really met or spoken with one, and I'm happy to let them be curious. 
 

3) Now as for calling other people to repentance, I chose to politely call others out on poor behaviour. If somebody suggests something not appropriate, I will simply state it is not appropriate and leave it at that. 
 

Generally people are respectful, and I have some really good interactions with others. If  I was actively seeking to debate others regularly I'm sure I would not be so tolerated! 
 

 

[Jamie123]

On 6/1/2025 at 4:44 PM, Backroads said:

Maybe he was evolving in his personal... Personhood. Or something like that.

I don't think it was anything so sophisticated. It was just pure smartypantery.

[Carborendum]

On 6/1/2025 at 10:44 AM, Backroads said:

Maybe he was evolving in his personal... Personhood. Or something like that.

OK, let's look at that:

Statistics show that the Judeo-Christian ethic/belief system has created happier people who learn and grow to be better people every day.  This is much more so than any other religion or belief system.  At least a few studies have shown that married LDS are the happiest of all.

As far as I can tell, statistically, atheism has created more narcissists and nihilists than any religion in the world.

[Backroads]

22 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

I don't think it was anything so sophisticated. It was just pure smartypantery.

Probably not. I was just being quippy.