[Student Loan Forgiveness Antireligious?]

There are many fingers to point, and there are multiple sides of the argument, some of which I can see as religious.

However, when it comes right down to it, they are the ones who signed their names on the dotted line, and agreed to pay those loans back. So they should.

[A very odd but completely serious question, largely for the more conservative folk]

41 minutes ago, mikbone said:

We exclusively home school.

 

I think about doing it more and more each day.

[Elder Holland talk April 2022]

3 hours ago, person0 said:

Yeah.  Unfortunately, there are many in the same boat.

Sadly, the pressures of the world mob are intense for the youth, and all those without a firm foundation. Too many think that truth is relative rather than concrete - subjective rather than objective. I gave a lesson on truth to our youth on our last 5th Sunday. Some if them didn't seem to believe me when I told them the basics...like how the commandments apply to everyone. No one gets a pass because they may feel commandments or laws are "unfair" or "oppressive".

For reasons unknown to me, the adversary's message is seductive to them. He makes his foul patterns seem more loving and inclusive while painting God's as hateful and exclusive.

[Off topic-can you name your childhood teachers?]

Every one K-5, and about 3/4 of middle and high.

[Mosiah 27:13]

3 hours ago, askandanswer said:

My scripture reading this morning took me to this phrase here from Mosiah 27:13

This is my church, and I will establish it; and nothing shall ^boverthrow it, save it is the transgression of my people.

To me, this statement seems to be saying that the church can be overthrown by the transgression of the people. How much weight does this statement from an angel add to the conclusion that the works of man - in this case their wickedness and transgressions - can indeed stop or end or thwart the work of God - in this case the establishmen and ongoing operation of His church? If it is the case that the wickedness of man can hinder the work of God, there may be some difficulties in reconciling that idea with Joseph Smith's teaching that "no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing."

Context is key. That scripture was specific to those people at that time. It does not apply to us...because it was not about us. We are now in the last dispensation, and the work will continue to move forward until the end. Yes, our wickedness could at times slow progress, but it will not stop the church this time.

[Russia-Ukraine conflict]

12 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Remember back when many progressives with ties to the LDS community were so very, very concerned about the possibility that then-President Monson may be suffering from dementia; and insisted that it was important—nay, imperative, for the good of the Church!—that a full and complete description of his medical condition be released  to the public?

Those were good times.

Yep, sure do. One difference though is that the church is led by the Lord. Our country is not. Pres. Monson had his duties scaled back, and no major church policy decision/change was made when he was unable to sign off on them, even though many had been started by him beforehand. They were held off until a new prophet was put in his place to give a final approval.

[Russia-Ukraine conflict]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

FWIW, in thinking about this thread yesterday I did some googling and found his physician’s summary of President Biden’s last physical from late 2021.  The report conspicuously omits any discussion of cognitive ability; but (speaking as a layman, and maybe @mikbone could supplement this as I understand him to be a surgeon by profession) as far as physical health goes, it does seem to be remarkably good for a man of his age.  The report also specifically notes that Biden works out something like five days a week.

Any MD evaluation should include what is called a Review Of Systems, or ROS, in the medical record - a brief summary of a person's overall health status. A person's cognitive ability and/or mental health should be addressed in the Neurologic or Psychiatric sections of the exam. Even a specialist that does not practice in other areas should at least have a notation about what other types of health issues are going on.

Maybe Biden does have dementia setting in, or maybe he doesn't...I have not read the report, nor ever interacted with him. But, if the mental health of the commander in chief was not listed or stated in said report, that is concerning. If he is fine, then why not say so?

[Jessie Smollett]

2 hours ago, mikbone said:

"You are now a permanently convicted felon. Your family loves you and supports you... But you have to live with the fact that you really put them through a ringer. You embarrassed your valuable friends in high places, elected public officials, people in the media. You've embarrassed them. You have to live with that.

"I don't know if those relationships can be repaired. You've become toxic in your own workplace. Your career, future is very uncertain at the very best. It was really on a rocket ship to success and now you've turned yourself into a riches to rags [story] and it's so unfortunate.

"Your very name has become an adverb for lying, and I cannot imagine what can be worse than that... You're the butt of jokes. Comedians, mainstream talk show hosts, they make jokes about you. They do sketches about you. I can't imagine anything worse than that.

"This is all self-inflicted. These are things you did to yourself. This is self-damage. Some people may think that what you did is funny, that there's some room for humor and jokes about it. But I assure you this court does not.

"I don't think that there's anything funny at all about hoaxing and faking racial hate crimes or hoaxing and faking homophobic hate crimes. I think that it's disgraceful and there is nothing funny about it. There is no humor in what you did whatsoever, all because you're selfish, arrogant, narcissistic, at least you have that side of you."

"Your performance on the witness stand... This could only be described as pure perjury. You got on the witness stand. You didn't have to. You did and you certainly have a right to. But you committed hour upon hour upon hour of pure perjury and I find all those to be ample factors that this court can decide that the things you did, that any kind of probationary sentence would deprecate the seriousness of the offense, that you need to go to the penitentiary. The record is clear and it would support it...

"I agree with what was told to me today—you can't judge everybody by one bad thing they've done in their life. I don't know if it's the only bad thing, but it's the only bad thing that I'm concerned about now. And you do have quite a record of real community service...

"I'm mindful of the pleas for mercy, particularly from people that are in the arena of dealing with social justice issues, that are seriously fighting—not playing around, not doing games like you were doing. But seriously fighting for matters involving hate crimes of all sorts. And they're asking for mercy...

"So I'm trying to consider who you are as a person, how you got here, how somehow you strayed away from your family values, you let that dark, narcissistic, selfish, arrogant side come out. And you persisted with it for years in this case."

-  Judge James Linn

The past few years we have seen some examples of very poor judges (one wonders how they are still employed as such). We have also seen some great ones, and this is an example of the latter. Judges cannot mince words, and must not treat snowflakes as such. The words rang true, and were honest, not punitive. I believe the overall sentencing was also fair; not too harsh, and not too lenient.

[Russia-Ukraine conflict]

16 hours ago, Godless said:

I'm not here to defend Kamala, but in reference to the emphasized bit..... I mean..... surely you're joking, right? 🤨

Nope, not joking...she is definitely worse than Barack Obama.

(...that was a joke)

[Russia-Ukraine conflict]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

An embarrasing lack of maturity and basic soft skills. I do not know of any president or vp in our country's history who has demonstrated their utter lack of knowledge and awareness like she has. She is truly clueless about how to properly conduct herself on the national and world stage with regards to common decorum. Unprepared and lazy. Her answers to questions are word salad, and her demeanor is that of a young girl in middle school. 

[Women’s Ivy League Swimming?]

3 hours ago, MrShorty said:

(other than fallible testimony, since it is all too easy to conflate emotional or intellectual preference for the Spirit's witness)

So sorry you feel that way. For me, the differentiation is quite clear.

[Women’s Ivy League Swimming?]

2 hours ago, MrShorty said:

One caveat -- maybe science just needs enough time (it also sometimes seems religion needs time to find truth like with slavery) to work it all out. If time is the great equalizer, perhaps the question of the moment is should we opt for a conservative position (assume pathology or exclusion until science clearly shows that change is needed) or should we opt for a progressive view where change maybe is considered or adopted until the change is shown to be wrong? I don't know.

In certain areas yes. All sorts of things are discovered with more time. Almost every day new discoveries are made...a potentially big one just a few days ago regarding heart disease and diabetes. However, I have found that the latest best guess of the scientists is never as good as the the word of the Lord. He is the one that knows, and can lead anyone to, the truth.

[Women’s Ivy League Swimming?]

45 minutes ago, MrShorty said:

 

@scottyg already lost the "show me your references" battle once, not going to go down that rabbit hole again. As it pertains to the OP, USA Swimming has come to a consensus opinion that transwomen can compete against ciswomen if (enter requirements here -- seems to mostly be about testosterone levels over time). At the broader level, the APA in publishing the DSM-V was working with a trend to destigmitize/depathologize transgender and gender dysphoria diagnoses. The WHO very recently (announced in 2019 taking effect in 2022) announced a shift moving Gender incongruence from the mental disorders section to their Sexual health section because they no longer believe it is an illness. I'm sure if you want to penetrate any or all of these bureaucracies, they would be happy (because we all know just how happy bureaucrats can be to do their job) to help you understand the literature they used and the discussion processes that went into coming to their decisions on what policies to set.

That's fine, I'm really not a debater myself. I sometimes enjoyed it on my mission, but found it never gets anyone anywhere.

What I am though is a registered nurse that works for a health insurance company, and I am well versed in the APA and the DSM, WHO positions, multiple peer reviewed journals, etc... It is my job to review them to give guidance on what the company should and should not cover based off of medical facts and proven treatments...not opinions. The WHO and other associations are made up of people, and they, just like everyone else have opinions. I have no desire to, as you say, penetrate their bureaucracies...that has unfortunately been done already. Unfortunately, they have already been infiltrated with those who harbor an agenda or who desire influence and/or money. It is not a conspiracy theory; you just have to look at how they make decisions nowadays...their processes and standards in multiple areas have changed due to inward and outward pressures. They follow the crowd, not the true process of medical research.

Just so you know, the literature they use to justify changing their positions and definitions are nothing more than opinion pieces. There is no real physiological data. No legitimate study that proves anything. None. Zero. And yet these agencies will run wild with the latest "theories" of the day as if they had been shown to a law. They will find one random genetic marker (that really has nothing to do with gender) and spin a fairy tale so convincing it would make the Brothers Grimm jealous. However, it is just that, a fairy tale; false personal opinions of those in the situation that follow what those funding the study want to hear. Their so called "studies" are so poor it is laughable anyone would even publish them...yet they do to further their agendas, and those who don't know any better believe all of the lies prostituted to them without giving it any critical thought themselves...because it's the easy way out. Those who are gaining prominence in the fields of mental health are the very ones with mental health issues, and they are too darn prideful, lazy, and/or mentally weak to admit it. So, they do all they can to fill their "studies" with the words, maybe, possibly, and suggests to make it seem like they actually have a basis for what they are talking about. They seek for validation rather than truth, and will do or say anything to get others to join their cause to mask their pain. Great evils are being spread throughout the world disguised as "love", equality, and acceptance.

It seems odd (and concerning) to me that you would continue to push a narrative based off of, nothing really. You continue to say that you don't necessarily believe that what the Prophets and Apostles of our day teach is in line with that the Lord thinks. To be blunt, that is absurd, and very shaky ground to be standing on as a member of the Lord's church. You cannot sustain the Prophet while openly saying you do not believe his words. I will say no more on the subject, but I implore you to please follow the living Prophet. TImes worse than this are coming, and the Prophet will not lead you astray...the Lord would not allow it. Do not get swept up by the beat of babylon's drum, as it is surrounded with flaxen cords meant to stop your progression to the Lord. The so called "love" and acceptance that is popular in the world today will not bring you closer to Him. It is possible to love people without accepting and supporting their decisions. Wrong is wrong no matter how many people say it's right. 

"Vice is a monster of so frightful mien, as to be hated but need to be seen; yet seen to oft, familiar with her face, we first endure, then pity, then embrace."

Alexander Pope's essay on man - often quoted by Thomas S Monson

 

[Women’s Ivy League Swimming?]

1 hour ago, MrShorty said:

As the psychological community currently interprets the evidence,...

Such as?

[Is there a word for this?]

Could be Mimetic Desire, which eventually turns into a hedonic treadmill. Or, it could be just plain ol covetousness.

[Having a rough time at church]

Also, for what it's worth, going back to part of the original post about employment, this was just posted not long ago about changing careers. Ken Coleman who is next to Dave Ramsey in this video has a great youtube channel with all kinds of career advice.

 

 

If you hate your job, I recommend you move. I cannot remember a time when the job market was this favorable to the employee in my lifetime. I know you said "time & energy to apply is really in short supply", but it sounds like most of your time and energy is being sapped away not from church, but from a job that you hate. Again, I've been there, and following the spiritual prompting to change careers is one of the best decisions I have ever made...top 3 in my life. The grass isn't always greener on the other side, but sometimes it is, and you never know unless you look. I recommend you pray with an open heart and mind (perhaps you already have) and not let the fear of the unknown stop you from taking the next step in your life. Much of the time, that fear is based on nothing but our false perceptions.

[Women’s Ivy League Swimming?]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

So, Grunt, did God not make people who are born with ambiguous genitalia?  Congenital adrenal hyperplasia?  Mixed gonadal dysgenesis?  Kids born with male external structures and female internal structures?  If God didn't make 'em, who did?

There are exceptions.  And again, our Lord and Savior has things to say about the one and the ninety-and-nine.  People exist, where righteous humans doing their best science, simply can't tell whether it's a boy or a girl.   There are men, there are women, and there are a tiny small percentage of "we don't know enough to judge righteously".  

(And yes, again, I'd say for every true person that falls into this category, there are hundreds or thousands of ppl who have been suckered by blowing winds of cultural change, to experiment with themselves until they're unable to distinguish truth from reality.)

Maybe He intended for their bodies to be that way so that they could learn something only possible through experience. Or, perhaps God had nothing to do with it, and their bodies just didn't develop properly. Chance and randomness do exist in this world. Yes, God can control anything. But, if He did control everything, then true agency could not exist. If the body of a person did not develop properly in utero, whether it is genitalia, limbs, brain, muscles, etc..., then that would be a difficult trial indeed.

What we do know is that there are no transgender spirits. Male and Female exist, and that's it. If a person's body does not accurately reflect that while in this mortal probation, I cannot imagine how hard that would be. The number of true transgender individuals (meaning their body was born with both male and female characteristics/genetics, and their parents/doctors chose the incorrect one) is very, very, very small. I do believe the majority are just mentally ill, and they will be in for a rude awakening when their resurrected body does not display what they have been told it was for much of their life. Thankfully I do not have to judge anyone...that is up to the Lord. Only He and they truly know.

As a side note, if any church policy regarding transgender persons is applied to their detriment, I believe God will eventually make it right. Again, perhaps they (a very small number) needed to learn or experience something while here. This life is just a blip on the radar when compared to eternity.

[Women’s Ivy League Swimming?]

59 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I know the feeling.

I believe I placed once in my entire high school athletic career.  But I could beat any girl on the field in any event except for the high hurdles.  I was much shorter than average, so the taller girls had a significant advantage in that one event.

Yup. Although I wouldn't have placed at the olympics, if in High School I had said "I identify as a female", and ran against the girls, I would have been a state champion in every, single, race, and every, jumping, event. Maybe even some of the throwing events if I had learned good technique.

[Having a rough time at church]

10 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

My daughter’s activity days tomorrow: having a lesson on goal making and passing out goal books. 

This is normal everywhere. Setting personal goals is the main part of the new youth program of the church that has been in place for over 2 years now. Primary age kids and the youth each have different booklets to help them set goals and find ways to grow. Rather than have leaders tell kids what they will be doing each week/month (like what we used to do with scouting) it is now up to the kids to determine their own ways in which they would like to personally grow, and to choose weekly activities if they want that will align with their personal goals. Leaders may still direct more of the activity days age kids, but once you are in the YM/YW program, it should be fully youth directed/led.

Your leaders could be pushing this method on the adults because there may be many others who need to hear this direction. If you don't then that's fine. I don't accept every goal that is "given" to me by others...it's no big deal. I don't really know why you are allowing yourself to get so worked up over this. Just go to church to partake of the sacrament and recommit yourself to the Lord. Everything else that takes place in the church is meant to support you in keeping your covenants. If something doesn't help you, then don't participate in it.

[Women’s Ivy League Swimming?]

1 hour ago, mordorbund said:

Here’s a site that compared the best of high school boys versus the best of Olympic women in track and field events: https://boysvswomen.com/

The Olympic athletes don’t fare well.

My times in high school would have been fast enough to qualify. Based on those times between the 100, 200, and 400 meters I would have placed in the bottom half of the various races. No medal for me...but I would still be running among the worlds best.

[Having a rough time at church]

My neighbor who is a counselor in the Stake Presidency had the same type of job situation that you describe. He was visibly worn down. About 6-7 weeks ago he abruptly quit his job, and just started working again last week. The first Sunday I saw him after he quit I noticed that something was different about him...and realized that he was smiling. I hadn't seen him happy in who knows how long, and he looked like a completely new person, even though he was unemployed.

I don't know specific details other than what you have shared, but rather than find shelter from the storm, perhaps you need to move yourself somewhere where no storm is present for a time. My last job change 5 years ago came with a pay cut, but improved my life in every other way by leaps and bounds.

The Lord is aware of you and your situation, and will reach out from time to time to bouy you up as you wait upon Him.

[Callings]

I have never felt "in over my head" with regards to a calling, nor have I ever turned one down...and I never plan to. Though it may be difficult, it always works out. When I went through the temple for myself I made a promise (amongst other things) that I would give of myself, my time, my talents, etc... So, in my mind, I have already agreed to accept any calling that will be extended to me.

In our ward however, I have had 3 people turn down callings in January alone. The number of people saying no has greatly increased over the past 2 years or so, and the biggest excuse I hear is a lack of time. People are too easily distracted nowadays, and fill their lives with so many unnecessary "obligations". Even simple callings like a primary teacher are becoming hard to fill...and that is something that I would love to do. It is quite discouraging to many ward and stake leaders to ponder and pray about callings for weeks on end before you get your answer...only to have the person refuse it. It is disappointing to know those people truly were called by the Lord, but instead choose to miss out on something important for their lives.

"whom the Lord calls, the Lord qualifies" 

Thomas S. Monson

[Gays, blacks and the church]

1 hour ago, MrShorty said:

I doubt 2 (maybe even leaning towards disbelieving 2, if the distinction between doubt and disbelief is not too subtle), I also doubt 3 (again maybe even leaning towards disbelief).

Truth is truth. It is not divisible and no part of it can be set aside. It does not change from person to person...wrong is never right. God will never lead His children to sin...it is against His nature, work, and glory. Blacks not holding the priesthood for a few years was a church policy. Marriage is an eternal principle; one defined by God Himself as the legal and lawful union of a man and a woman. He does not change eternal principles to fit the narratives of the vain Caesars of the day. Gay marriage is in fact a misnomer...it isn't possible. Homosexuality is wrong - a sin meant to disrupt progression and mock our divine nature.

The practice is sin and will never, ever, be acceptable before the Lord. I'm sorry you doubt such things, and that your testimony is lacking. By the way you speak the chances seem high that you, or someone close to you, personally struggles with this. However, there are no loopholes to be found. Any hope for some new church guidance or what you think of as "revelation" that lessens or removes the sinful nature from this act is misplaced. The beliefs that you currently hold about these issues are wrong, and always will be. For many, that is the harsh reality that needs to be said more often. Sin is sin, and never leads one back to God.

I hope the tone of my response is not read as one of anger, because it is not meant that way. I wish you well in your search for actual truth moving forward.

[Gays, blacks and the church]

11 minutes ago, MrShorty said:

As it relates to the LGBT question, if God could tolerate slavery among His people, could He not also tolerate a few same-sex couples getting married?

During our time on earth...yes. He tolerates all number of sins so that we may have time to repent. 

Personally in His presence...no. No unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God.

This thread, and another one currently active, have amazed me more than once. The seeking for loopholes to justify immoral behavior must stop. The apologetics for sin in the church must stop. As is the case with other sins, there will be no homosexual relations in the Celestial Kingdom of God, period.

Gays, just like everyone else, must learn to bridle their passions and overcome their temptations. We do not give sins an exception just because there may be emotional ties to them.

I am all for learning how to better understand and empathize with others, and know the issue is painfully difficult for those involved, but at the end of the day the practice is sin. It is not, and never will be acceptable in the eyes of God.

[Yeah, I'll be that obnoxious teacher]

44 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

They did for me too, frankly.  I’m getting increasingly skeptical of *all* journalists; but I’ve kind of kept a special place in my heart for KSL; and even I was shocked by how cavalier the dishonesty in the article is.

Even the Deseret News has changed somewhat over the last 2 years or so. The prophets words about having the Holy Ghost with us to seek truth, and not getting all of our information from media become a bit by bit truer day by day.