Traveler

Last year while traveling with my wife we decided to attend church in down town Seattle in the chapel where I once served as a missionary.  My wife recognized a good friend of ours at sacrament meeting that was also visiting.  Our friend was there for a Laural reunion.   It seems that there was a particular close Laural class that among other things fellowshipped one of their friends into the church.  We will never guess the missionary that taught the friend?  Though I had forgotten (I have a good excuse) and though she was not there (passed away) but others that had come remember me from 50 years ago.  For all these years of friendship our friend and I never made the connection.
 
The Traveler

"My sheep hear my voice."

No it doesn't. It means to be stopped from eternal progression.

For every troll out there you will find 10 Mother Theresa's.  For every person who cannot look past doctrinal differences you will find many who will admire and envy your walk with Christ.  While other churches dry up because they cannot seem to put into practice what they preach you will hear many of the lost cry, "I knew the Mormons would come!"  
I became a Mormon, despite being one of those "traditional Christians", because I had friends and neighbors who looked past our differences and took it upon themselves to help me be the best Christian I could be - despite ill advised things I probably said, despite the fact that I most likely would not join the church.  They did so because they knew I was operating on incomplete information.  They did so because they were obeying Christ's admonition to bless those who curse you.  For which I cannot begin to express how grateful I am.
Today, I got to deal with some trolls who, because of the need for doctrinal purity on their part, could not even see they were being self righteous, condescending, and hateful. It was unfortunate, because I had, up until today, been somewhat successful at bridging the gap between evangelicals and Mormons.
But, I guess, occasionally we run into situations were we have to agree to disagree and in other cases not bother casting our pearls before swine. 
Paul faced this kind of blow back in his day.  So did the savior.  So will anyone who tries to live a Godly life.  Take joy in the fact that we have been deemed worthy to endure ridicule and hatred because of our love for Christ!
I do take solace that as time goes by this in-fighting between churches will hopefully diminish.  I take encouragement because of the fact that here in Salt Lake City our Church and the Roman Catholic Church seem to have a good working relationship.  I'm encouraged because when I volunteered at the homeless shelter you had a ministry ran by the catholic church and while I was there we had a number of Mormon missionaries, a couple of baptist sisters, and some other gentlemen from various denominations, but we had all come there to bring the gospel of Christ to those in our community who needed it the most.
Do not give up on people who are working with incomplete information.  If they won't listen to your words then let your life be your testimony, because it will be the one thing they will never be able to ignore.  They may hate us for it, they may curse us and call down Hell upon our heads, but they will not be able to shut down the burning coals our examples will place upon their heads.
 
 

Generally speaking I have a low opinion of traditional Christians.  To be honest – my opinion of traditional Christians is lower than Pagans – right there with infidels and Pharisees.  I am both grateful and thankful that we LDS are excluded and not considered part of the Great Apostasy.  Isaiah described such “Christians” as drawing near with their mouths and with their lips honoring G-d but with hearts far from G-d.  Jesus spoke of such “Christians” that claim believe and to do things in his name – but Jesus said that when these kinds of Christians stand before him he will say, “I never knew you”.
Jesus spoke prophetically when he said that his “disciples” will be known by their love and compassion towards others – “By this shall ye know my disciples indeed, if they have loved one unto another.”  Traditional Christians murdered more northern Europeans for not believing their doctrine of the trinity than were killed by the Black Plague.  Traditional Christians committed genocide on entire populations that refused to be converted to their misguided interpretations of the Bible.  Charlemagne murdered hundreds of thousands and for his acts of murder he was given the grand title of “Defender of the Faith” by traditional Christians.  Prior to 1649 there was not a single traditional Christian society that did not delight in murder (as evidence by their absents of laws to protect anyone not their flavor of Christianity) to advance their cause in their “Christianity”.
Isiah prophesied of apostasy in 3 principles.  First – a transgression of the Law.  Second – changing the ordinances. and Third – Breaking the everlasting covenant (see Isaiah 24).   Traditional Christians have substituted all three principles of the Gospel with their “doctrine”.  For them – their doctrine trumps the law, is more important than the ordinances and greater than any everlasting covenant.
 
The Traveler

In my experience, most people wouldn't recognize logic if it bit the nose off their face.  (Just sayin'.)

Having served in the military as well as a mission – I have a different view than most.  But my personal view was not shaped just by these events.  Rather my view comes from life experiences.  First, I would speak to military experience.  Though I value my experience as a life changing experience that I would not change – I found the military the worse run organization I have ever been involved with.  The concept of commission and non-commission officers is a tradition through back to ancient insanity made worse by the Dark Ages.  It is an example of the worse kinds of social prejudices.  In addition, the rigors and methods are based on the lowest common denominators – but still there is something to be learned with unity and team work when forced to work and live with individuals void of morals and what would seem to be “normal” intelligence.  
I believe that military service should be required for citizenship and property ownership.    I believe before someone can claim citizenship they should serve for a minimum of 4 years in the military.  I also believe before someone can purchase an automobile, home, have a bank account, credit card, be legally married, hold public office, be considered an adult or have a full-time job – they should first be required to carry a gun (side by side with the best and scum that society produces) with the prospect of using that weapon to end someone’s life in defense of other citizens and the laws of the country they live in.  I believe that if someone cannot or will not defend and support the country and it laws – they should not benefit from the harvests that society produces.   If you do not or will not serve – you should not be considered a citizen or have the rights and responsibilities of being a citizen (adult).  I believe citizenship should be available to all but not without some personal commitment, effort and sacrifice.  I also believe military service (in our country’s military) should be a requirement for anyone foreign, wanting to come to this country and be a citizen or even work in this country on a work visa.   I know I am a bit of a hard nose but if a non-citizen comes to this country for an education – I do not believe that they should receive a college degree unless they serve in our military.
Now for mission.  I believe every young man and young woman should serve a mission.  But I believe that a church mission should be voluntary.   If there is social pressure to serve – so be it.  Those that complain about social pressure to go on a mission – get a life!  If you cannot deal with such things – how do you expect to survive and be a person.  I understand people have issues – but when issues become more important than being responsible – such need help and are not ready for a great many – even lessor things.  Life can be tough – but in reality, life is not so difficult only that we make it so by our attitudes.   I found that my mission service was easy – one of the easiest and most rewarding of just about anything I have done.  I believe that the payback for the effort is beyond any other experience I have had.  Plus, a mission was fun.  For me, having a companion and going out into the world to share what means most to me was both great fun and rewarding off the charts.  Compared to marriage – a mission was a cake walk.  But the purpose of life is not a mission – a mission is not an end or that great of an achievement - it is just part of a path that leads to greater things.
 
The Traveler

Back when I was a missionary - from time to time someone would ask, "How many missionaries are serving in your mission?"  My response was, "About half of them."
 
The Traveler

Back when I was a missionary - from time to time someone would ask, "How many missionaries are serving in your mission?"  My response was, "About half of them."
 
The Traveler

Back when I was a missionary - from time to time someone would ask, "How many missionaries are serving in your mission?"  My response was, "About half of them."
 
The Traveler

Back when I was a missionary - from time to time someone would ask, "How many missionaries are serving in your mission?"  My response was, "About half of them."
 
The Traveler

Some thoughts: 
One from an old seminary teacher in another life: “Wickedness never was happiness – but it was sure fun while it lasted.”
One from me that I wrote in my journal also during another life:  “I am a strong righteous son of my Father in Heaven that can accomplish and do anything – I can with great power stand against anything the adversary throws against me – I can do anything and all things; with the one exception of resisting temptation.”
 
 
The Traveler

Some thoughts: 
One from an old seminary teacher in another life: “Wickedness never was happiness – but it was sure fun while it lasted.”
One from me that I wrote in my journal also during another life:  “I am a strong righteous son of my Father in Heaven that can accomplish and do anything – I can with great power stand against anything the adversary throws against me – I can do anything and all things; with the one exception of resisting temptation.”
 
 
The Traveler

I will tell you a story from my great grandfather’s journal.  My great grandfather was a strong prominent Latter-day Saint in his community (Brigham City, Utah).  He and my great grandmother were very much in love and very happy with their marriage and family.  It all changed suddenly when Brigham Young commanded him and his wife to accept another wife into their marriage and family.  My great grandfather was greatly disappointed but my great grandmother was furious and angry.   
In her anger she left immediately from home walking alone to Salt Lake City.  According to my great grandfather she encountered several offers to ride in a wagon but she bitterly turned them down – stewing in her anger saying, “no thank you”.  She arrived in Salt Lake City and went straight to the administration building on South Temple next to the “Lion House”.  There she stormed up the stairs to president Brigham Young’s office right by the secretary into Brigham’s office.  The story was that she could be heard screaming at Brigham throughout the entire administration building – then Brigham quietly went and closed his office door.    Here in essence the story ends.  No one has ever said a word about what happened after the office door closed.
My great grandmother returned home and picked out the next wife for my great grandfather.  My great grandmother never complained in all ways showed love to her sister wife – the only response she ever made was something along the line, “I did not understand or appreciate how important this is.”  The only other though I could add is that my great grandfather also stated that he believed that most plural marriages taking place in the church were excuses for adultery and it was his opinion that the church would come under condemnation.
 
The Traveler

I will tell you a story from my great grandfather’s journal.  My great grandfather was a strong prominent Latter-day Saint in his community (Brigham City, Utah).  He and my great grandmother were very much in love and very happy with their marriage and family.  It all changed suddenly when Brigham Young commanded him and his wife to accept another wife into their marriage and family.  My great grandfather was greatly disappointed but my great grandmother was furious and angry.   
In her anger she left immediately from home walking alone to Salt Lake City.  According to my great grandfather she encountered several offers to ride in a wagon but she bitterly turned them down – stewing in her anger saying, “no thank you”.  She arrived in Salt Lake City and went straight to the administration building on South Temple next to the “Lion House”.  There she stormed up the stairs to president Brigham Young’s office right by the secretary into Brigham’s office.  The story was that she could be heard screaming at Brigham throughout the entire administration building – then Brigham quietly went and closed his office door.    Here in essence the story ends.  No one has ever said a word about what happened after the office door closed.
My great grandmother returned home and picked out the next wife for my great grandfather.  My great grandmother never complained in all ways showed love to her sister wife – the only response she ever made was something along the line, “I did not understand or appreciate how important this is.”  The only other though I could add is that my great grandfather also stated that he believed that most plural marriages taking place in the church were excuses for adultery and it was his opinion that the church would come under condemnation.
 
The Traveler

I will tell you a story from my great grandfather’s journal.  My great grandfather was a strong prominent Latter-day Saint in his community (Brigham City, Utah).  He and my great grandmother were very much in love and very happy with their marriage and family.  It all changed suddenly when Brigham Young commanded him and his wife to accept another wife into their marriage and family.  My great grandfather was greatly disappointed but my great grandmother was furious and angry.   
In her anger she left immediately from home walking alone to Salt Lake City.  According to my great grandfather she encountered several offers to ride in a wagon but she bitterly turned them down – stewing in her anger saying, “no thank you”.  She arrived in Salt Lake City and went straight to the administration building on South Temple next to the “Lion House”.  There she stormed up the stairs to president Brigham Young’s office right by the secretary into Brigham’s office.  The story was that she could be heard screaming at Brigham throughout the entire administration building – then Brigham quietly went and closed his office door.    Here in essence the story ends.  No one has ever said a word about what happened after the office door closed.
My great grandmother returned home and picked out the next wife for my great grandfather.  My great grandmother never complained in all ways showed love to her sister wife – the only response she ever made was something along the line, “I did not understand or appreciate how important this is.”  The only other though I could add is that my great grandfather also stated that he believed that most plural marriages taking place in the church were excuses for adultery and it was his opinion that the church would come under condemnation.
 
The Traveler

The statement seems self-evident, yet, denies one very real option for people of faith who suffer from unwanted same-sex attraction. Very few who are attracted to the same sex are 100% that way. Men tend to be much higher on the spectrum. I heard a tremendous testimony out of Bellevue, Washington. The man was a Christian, but had same-sex attraction. Through Christian counseling and scripture study he was attempting to live a celibate life. Into his church comes a woman suffering from nymphomania. She is pregnant, and has had too many partners to even begin to try to determine who the father is. She determines to carry the baby to term, and this same-sex attracted man starts helping her through the process. Over time they become dear friends. One day they approach the pastor (Presbyterian Church USA--the denomination accepts gay marriage, but this church and pastor have elected not to), and say they want to have counseling, and would like to marry. The pastor says to the woman, "You understand that he is attracted to men, much more than to woman?" Her answer?  "Yes, that's why it has to be him. Don't you see? Men have always wanted me for what I can give them physically. With him, I KNOW he loves me for me." The pastor looks at the man and asks if he can be satisfied, married to a woman. He says, "I may love chocolate ice cream, but the doctor says chocolate is bad for me. I don't care for vanilla nearly as much, but it's not bad."
The pastor reports that gay activists often dismiss his story, saying that the couple are denying their true selves. His response? "Tell them that! I see two people who have found love that is much more spiritual and emotional than physical--yet which does give them whole satisfaction."
Not every same-sex attracted individual can be find fulfillment in heterosexual marriage. Perhaps most cannot. HOWEVER, I'd be loathe to say that those who do so, carefully, in conjunction with extensive counseling and support, and with full disclosure, deserve anything but God-blessed matrimony.

I wonder how often sexless marriages begin with one of the partners being somewhat less interested in physical intimacy, and the other being too polite, too understanding, and too self-denying. The pattern gets established, and neither realizes the importance of what's missing until a root of bitterness sets in. It's not that the blame is 50/50, but how much can one complain about the lack of physical intimacy if there is not enough emotional/psychological intimacy between the two, such that the hurt and longing gets expressed relatively early on?

I felt to add some of my own understanding here.  First off, because of my scientific background, I believe in evolution (or as some would say - change).  Not only do I believe in evolution, I believe that evolution is a divine principle and perhaps the most active element employed by G-d in his “Plan of Salvation”; that was laid before the foundations of this world were made.
I also believe that the strongest force behind evolution is the power of intelligence.  As a consulting engineer specializing in (among other things) artificial intelligence – l am well aware that intelligence is the ability to learn and modify one’s behavior.  For example, I believe that regardless of one’s desire or proclivity towards any element of behavior that with the sure power of intelligence an individual can override any desire or proclivity to do any cognitive (conscious) behavior and instead do something they choose by the power of their intellect and will.
I want to express an additional believe I have; that some do not agree.  I believe that intelligence and will are an innate trait of an individual that they alone exercise.  Where there may be some disagreement is in what we LDS call “Agency”.  Agency may seem similar but I see it as very different – agency is something outside of an individual and is given to us all as a gift from G-d.  But the exercise of our agency is completely a factor of our intelligence and will.  I will put it this way – a choice is given to us as part of our circumstance of our existence – the choice and circumstance define our agency.  But what is chosen is not a factor of our agency.  Rather it is a factor of our intelligence and will.  What this all means is that no one can dictate anyone else’s intelligence and will.   Despite what we think, understand and choose for ourselves and what we learn – we cannot extend it to anyone else determined not to use their intelligence and will as we have.  We cannot let someone see or understand anything they do not will or allow their intelligence to embrace.
 
The Traveler

So, much like tithing settlement, the smart ones will find a very good reason to be nowhere near there.

Think not when you gather to Zion,
Your troubles and trials are through,
That nothing but comfort and pleasure
Are waiting in Zion for you.
No, no, 'tis designed as a furnace,
All substance, all textures to try,
To burn all the " wood, hay, and stubble, "
The gold from the dross purify.
Think not when you gather to Zion,
That all will be holy and pure;
That fraud and deception are banished,
And confidence wholly secure.
No, no, for the Lord our Redeemer
Has said that the tares with the wheat
Must grow till the great day of burning
Shall render the harvest complete.
Think not when you gather to Zion,
The saints here have nothing to do
But to look to your personal welfare,
And always be comforting you.
No, those who are faithful are doing
What they find to do with their might;
To gather the scattered of Israel
They labor by day and by night.
Think not when you gather to Zion,
The prize and the victory won.
Think not that the warfare is ended,
The work of salvation is done.
No, no, for the great prince of darkness
A tenfold exertion will make,
When he sees you go to the fountain,
Where freely the truth you may take.
-Eliza R. Snow

I have learned many great and important truths reading the Book of Mormon.  Never-the-less I have been unable to obtain all the truths it contains for myself despite that I have read it many times.  I have often found that I have been helped to understand some truths I have missed by conversing with others that have also read the Book of Mormon.  At other times I have not been inspired by some claims others have made concerning what they say they have learned from their reading of the Book of Mormon or other “things” they believe are relevant.  This also applies to various claims of “studies”.
I do not know how or why it happens that some seem to read things and derive something very different than what I gain from reading the same thing (especially in scripture).  But I have learned that if I ask questions about how they concluded what they say from their reading and they become angry or condescending – with answers that seem to me to have nothing to do with my question.  It is going to be next to impossible for me – not just concerning the particular matter at hand but almost anything they would say.
 
The Traveler

@Vort
I have an older brother with a photographic memory – I know what it is like to be overshadowed.  The truth is, once you get over the ego thing being around really smart people is not so bad.  Growing up I was always the black sheep of the family – in the rest of the world (except with my wife and kinds) I am a borderline genius.   To be honest – I prefer being the black sheep – the pressure to be smart is not worth it.  It is more fun to be able celebrate mediocre accomplishments instead of greater things being expected.  But then this may be what you are implying all along.
 
The Traveler

@Blissful_Heart 
I am a 5th generation “Mormon” - Old guy with grand kids and not far away from great grand kids.   I was taught in my youth that if I loved and honored G-d that I would serve a mission – which I did.  I have never encountered a missionary that did not love those they taught – even those that they taught that did not become members.  Often this great love of investigators developed by missionaries, go far beyond individuals to entire cultures in which young missionaries serve.  It is rare that any Mormon congregation is void of missionaries and previous missionaries that have learned through their service to dearly love new converts.  I am sure that with effort some exception could be found – but such would be the exception and not the rule.
As a side note.  Mormons once lived in the Midwest (in Illinois) and were driven from their homes during the winter.  This is part of our history – when our Prophet Joseph Smith was murdered and we (my ancestors included) were forced out of the USA into the western wilderness that was then Mexican territories.  One in 5 Mormons died of illness and exposure that winter in a place called “Winter Quarters”.  During our time of distress and great need there was only one Christian organization (church) that offered aid and relief – that was the Catholic Church.   Previous Catholics make some of our very best Mormons. 
I thought I would add that most of those I have taught and helped prepare for baptism on my mission were previous atheists – on my mission, I served a lot at Universities.   Now, as an engineer and scientist – I continue to spent much of my working experience with atheists.  After reading your post it dawned on me that often I will side with atheists as being less “tainted” or misguided in truths than those from the religious sector.  Thanks for helping me become aware of this!!!
 
The Traveler

Really???? Baseball is still considered a game?
 
The Traveler