Sealings

[Soul_Searcher]

I dont know if Im alone in this but I find the idea of 'being sealed' contraversial. Im trying to accept different aspects of church doctrine as they come up, but this is something Im finding VERY hard.

There are so many situations were being a 'family forever' does not work. What happens if a family member leaves the church? Then the one who has stayed gets punished too, as they will not be able to be with that person who they love.

Or divorce? What about the children who wont get to have their parents together?

Or my poor friend who was sealed, then her husband was killed in a car crash a month later. She is NOT ALLOWED to be sealed again, so if she gets married again, the children wont be sealed to anyone, and her poor husband will not have his kids sealed to him, and he will NEVER be allowed to be sealed to the woman he loves. This sucks for everyone concerned.

Sealings are a good idea in theory, but only if everyone stays active, married, and alive. Its not realistic or feasible.

I know I can pray to accept this doctrine, but its still so unfair, especially my beautiful friend.

Any comments?

[Traveler]

I dont know if Im alone in this but I find the idea of 'being sealed' contraversial. Im trying to accept different aspects of church doctrine as they come up, but this is something Im finding VERY hard.

There are so many situations were being a 'family forever' does not work. What happens if a family member leaves the church? Then the one who has stayed gets punished too, as they will not be able to be with that person who they love.

Or divorce? What about the children who wont get to have their parents together?

Or my poor friend who was sealed, then her husband was killed in a car crash a month later. She is NOT ALLOWED to be sealed again, so if she gets married again, the children wont be sealed to anyone, and her poor husband will not have his kids sealed to him, and he will NEVER be allowed to be sealed to the woman he loves. This sucks for everyone concerned.

Sealings are a good idea in theory, but only if everyone stays active, married, and alive. Its not realistic or feasible.

I know I can pray to accept this doctrine, but its still so unfair, especially my beautiful friend.

Any comments?

May I make a suggestion? Try thinking of the word sealing as covenant. The highest covenant is between a husband and wife and G-d. This is the first essence of divine covenant. The second covenant is that all that live by Celestial law have covenant with every other Celestial citizen by a sealing covenant. The structure of this covenant is the family and the end is that we are all bound by the same covenant family.

Not everyone wants or desires a Celestial covenant but those that do are on the same page and are of “one” heart by covenant.

The Traveler

[applepansy]

I dont know if Im alone in this but I find the idea of 'being sealed' contraversial. Im trying to accept different aspects of church doctrine as they come up, but this is something Im finding VERY hard.

There are so many situations were being a 'family forever' does not work. What happens if a family member leaves the church? Then the one who has stayed gets punished too, as they will not be able to be with that person who they love.

Or divorce? What about the children who wont get to have their parents together?

Or my poor friend who was sealed, then her husband was killed in a car crash a month later. She is NOT ALLOWED to be sealed again, so if she gets married again, the children wont be sealed to anyone, and her poor husband will not have his kids sealed to him, and he will NEVER be allowed to be sealed to the woman he loves. This sucks for everyone concerned.

Sealings are a good idea in theory, but only if everyone stays active, married, and alive. Its not realistic or feasible.

I know I can pray to accept this doctrine, but its still so unfair, especially my beautiful friend.

Any comments?

All the answers to your questions are in other threads. This has been discussed repeatedly. I suggest you use the Search Function and find those threads.

applepansy

EDIT: Another place to find authoritative answers to your questions is in the Standard works of the church as well as the Ensigns.

Edited April 20, 2009 by applepansy

[Soul_Searcher]

Could you provide some links? I tried to search but it wasn't coming up with anything, just refreshes the page I'm on.

May I make a suggestion? Try thinking of the word sealing as covenant. The highest covenant is between a husband and wife and G-d. This is the first essence of divine covenant. The second covenant is that all that live by Celestial law have covenant with every other Celestial citizen by a sealing covenant. The structure of this covenant is the family and the end is that we are all bound by the same covenant family.

Not everyone wants or desires a Celestial covenant but those that do are on the same page and are of “one” heart by covenant.

OK, I can think of it as a covenant. But what you have suggested means I'm tied to everyone in the CK (if I get there which is unlikely anyway lol). I dont know if thats a particularly great thing, and if my relative isnt sealed or whatever, I wont be with them because they haven't kept a covenant? That is not fair, why would God do that?

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Soul-Searcher,

So, this might sound like a flippant question, but it really isn't. If you were God, how would you do it better? I see your list of issues, would there not be a similar or greater list of issues with any alternative plan?

I'd like to hear it, if you've got one better. From what I can tell, this church is the only Christian church out there with anything to say on the subject. The rest of Christianity is scattered about, some saying "we don't know any details - it'll all work out", other saying "at death, we stop caring about earthly relationships and focus solely on praising God", others saying "y'all oughta be more concerned about burning in hell than in living with your spouse and family in heaven".

Thoughts?

[Maureen]

Or divorce? What about the children who wont get to have their parents together?

Or my poor friend who was sealed, then her husband was killed in a car crash a month later. She is NOT ALLOWED to be sealed again, so if she gets married again, the children wont be sealed to anyone, and her poor husband will not have his kids sealed to him, and he will NEVER be allowed to be sealed to the woman he loves. This sucks for everyone concerned....

Any comments?

Hello Soul_Searcher, here's some information on wikipedia:

It has been argued that the LDS Church’s policy on sealings and cancellations reflect its doctrine of plural marriage. Although the doctrine of plural marriage is currently prohibited from being practiced in the Church, a man can be sealed to multiple women. A widower may be sealed while he is alive to his subsequent wives. Additionally, after men who are dead may be sealed by proxy to all of the women to whom they were legally married while alive. Recent changes in church policy also allow women to be sealed to multiple men, but only after both she and her husband(s) are dead.[2]

Church doctrine is not entirely specific on the status of men or women who are sealed by proxy to multiple spouses. There are at least two possibilities:

1. Regardless of how many people a man or woman is sealed to by proxy, they will only remain with one of them in the afterlife, and that the remaining spouses, who might still merit the full benefits of exaltation that come from being sealed, would then be given to another person in order to ensure each has an eternal marriage.

2. These sealings create effective plural marriages that will continue after death. There are no Church teachings clarifying whether polyandrous relationships can exist in the afterlife, so some church members doubt whether this possibility would apply to women who are sealed by proxy to multiple spouses. The possibility for women to be sealed to multiple men is a recent policy change enacted in 1998. Church leaders have neither explained this change, nor its doctrinal implications.

The union of a sealed couple is regarded as valid only if both individuals have kept their religious commitments and followed LDS teachings. Just as deceased individuals may refuse any temple ordinance (such as a sealing) done by proxy on their behalf, couples, parents and children who were sealed to each other during their own life may exercise their agency to refuse to accept a sealing of which they were a part. No one will be sealed to any one with whom they do not want to be sealed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealing_(Latter_Day_Saints)#cite_note-CHOI-1

The same link mentions divorced couples, but states that the "cancellation of sealing" applies to both the husband and wife. From what I've read the "cancellation" only applies to the woman. The man applies for a clearance of sealing when wishing to marry again, but I don't believe his side of the sealing is ever cancelled. Which is why a man can be sealed to more than one woman while he is alive.

M.

[hordak]

OK, I can think of it as a covenant. But what you have suggested means I'm tied to everyone in the CK (if I get there which is unlikely anyway lol). I dont know if thats a particularly great thing, and if my relative isnt sealed or whatever, I wont be with them because they haven't kept a covenant? That is not fair, why would God do that?

He wouldn't, assuming your speaking of kid/parent relationship

Let the father and mother, who are members of this Church and Kingdom, take a righteous course, and strive with all their might never to do a wrong, but to do good all their lives; if they have one child or one hundred children, if they conduct themselves towards them as they should, binding them to the Lord by their faith and prayers, I care not where those children go, they are bound up to their parents by an everlasting tie, and no power of earth or hell can separate them from their parents in eternity; they will return again to the fountain from whence they sprang” (quoted in Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 2:90–91).

If you succeed in passing through these trials and afflictions and receive a resurrection, you will, by the power of the Priesthood, work and labor, as the Son of God has, until you get all your sons and daughters in the path of exaltation and glory. This is just as sure as that the sun rose this morning over yonder mountains. Therefore, mourn not because all your sons and daughters do not follow in the path that you have marked out to them, or give heed to your counsels. Inasmuch as we succeed in securing eternal glory, and stand as saviors, and as kings and priests to our God, we will save our posterity” (in Collected Discourses, comp. Brian H. Stuy, 5 vols. [1987–92], 3:364).

“We cannot overemphasize the value of temple marriage, the binding ties of the sealing ordinance, and the standards of worthiness required of them. When parents keep the covenants they have made at the altar of the temple, their children will be forever bound to them” (“Our Moral Environment,” Ensign, May 1992, 68).

[Dravin]

That is not fair, why would God do that?

If you can't abide a Celestial law you can't abide a Celestial glory (D&C 88:22-24). If you don't keep your covenants you don't get the blessing associated with them (D&C 130:20-21). Its also been mentioned that those who are unclean will not feel comfortable in the presence of God, so should he make those people feel uncomfortable, possibly for eternity just for you? (Mormon 9:4)

This is perfectly fair. If you tell your kid they can have candy if they do the dishes but they don't, so you don't give them candy is this unfair? Now we have a situation where you can't give them candy (lets say somehow they are extremely diabetic until they do the dishes, they can't abide the candy) unless they do the dishes, is this unfair?

Edited April 20, 2009 by Dravin

[Just_A_Guy]

I dont know if Im alone in this but I find the idea of 'being sealed' contraversial. Im trying to accept different aspects of church doctrine as they come up, but this is something Im finding VERY hard.

There are so many situations were being a 'family forever' does not work. What happens if a family member leaves the church? Then the one who has stayed gets punished too, as they will not be able to be with that person who they love.

Or divorce? What about the children who wont get to have their parents together?

Or my poor friend who was sealed, then her husband was killed in a car crash a month later. She is NOT ALLOWED to be sealed again, so if she gets married again, the children wont be sealed to anyone, and her poor husband will not have his kids sealed to him, and he will NEVER be allowed to be sealed to the woman he loves. This sucks for everyone concerned.

Sealings are a good idea in theory, but only if everyone stays active, married, and alive. Its not realistic or feasible.

I know I can pray to accept this doctrine, but its still so unfair, especially my beautiful friend.

Any comments?

First off, your friend is free to remarry. She cannot, per current Church policy, be sealed to a new husband during her lifetime, but she can be sealed to him posthumously and the children can be sealed into that marriage.

Warning: Speculation coming.

I think we need to stop and think about what it means to be "sealed".

I think we often assume that a) each Kingdom of Glory is a "place"; b) a sealing is intended primarily to guarantee perpetual physical proximity to each other; and c) unsealed persons will never be able to associate with each other after the Resurrection.

I, for one, believe that a) each Kingdom of Glory is a state of being, not necessarily a physical location; b) a sealing is intended primarily to determine the lineage through which blessings flow (similar to a patriarchal blessing); and c) with the exceptions of married couples (who I think will no longer be able to procreate), unsealed persons will still have substantially the same relationships in the afterlife that they enjoy here.

Under this scenario:

• A divorce doesn't really affect the kids. They can still see both parents whenever they want, and the question of who they are "sealed" to doesn't make any more difference to them than it does to me whether my Israelite lineage (as declared in my Patriarchal Blessing) comes through Ephraim or Judah or Issachar.
• Where one spouse is unworthy to make it to the CK, the worthy spouse may still associate with the unworthy spouse--they just can't jointly participate in the work reserved for exalted couples.
• Where a kid of a sealed couple is unworthy of exaltation, he/she (per Elder Orson F. Whitney, quoting Joseph Smith) still enjoys a guarantee that he/she will not be left in Outer Darkness. The parents can still see the kid whenever they wish.

I should stress that the foregoing is not necessarily official Church doctrine. At the same time, I'm not aware of any authority that seriously challenges this paradigm. And it does seem to alleviate some of the perceived harshness of the conventional view.

[Wingnut]

I think it will all be worked out after this life (that's the point of the sealing ordinance) and I'm just glad I'm not the one who has to worry about it.

[Kirajo]

I did read either a talk or an article or something by a General Authority about the idea that everyone is so concerned about "who what where when meee??? him??? my kids!!!! I'll never be with them!!" ect. ect., and he said that as long as you are living worthily and keeping close to God, keeping your covenants to the best of your knowledge and abilities, everything will be worked out in the after life in your favor.

Another random thought is that yes, I would worry about who my daughter would be sealed to if something something happened and yada yada, but at the same time, I don't really worry about if I'm going to be sealed to my parents??? I will just want to be sealed to a companion at the very least, even though so much much more is possible to create the big eternal family circle we strive for.

So, it can get complicated with such and such rules but I personally feel like the only people that will be left unsatisfied with the end results will be those who were and continue to be unfaithful to God in this life and the next.

[sister_in_faith]

I have often tried to figure things like this out 'logically'. I came to a peace about it when I was told that during the last millenium everything would be finished and done correctly. No matter how good we are at searching our family history, we will have to stop at some point because there aren't records. Do we worry about our ancient ancestors not having their temple work done? I don't! Because I know that everything will be done (and any mistakes that we make now will be corrected). Heavenly Father knows us, and he knows our wishes. If our family members are worthy and accept the gospel they will have the same opportunities insofar as temple work as we do.

Fear not! He is going to take care of it. Far better than any of us could!

[Madriglace]

My youngest brother was born and went home just 4 days later ... he was perfect, he only needed to come to the earth gain his body. The rest of the family is still here and working hard to be worthy to raise him ... we are not perfect. The sealing covenant is Heavenly Fathers tool to bind families together forever ... what a blessing. The rest is up to Heavenly Father .. He knows what he's doing ... we need to let Him handle it. I am single ... have always been single .. I know I need celestial marriage to make the highets degree of the Celestial kingdom ... I don't worry about it I just try to live the best I can ... it will be taken care of.

[pam]

I would like to make a general observation. If I may quote you on another thread:

I've been a member all my life

Yet on this thread you say:

Im trying to accept different aspects of church doctrine as they come up, but this is something Im finding VERY hard.

Certainly the teachings and doctrine of sealings have come up during your lifetime as a member. With the numerous questions you have asked...I'm afraid I'm becoming skeptical as to whether you've been a member your entire life. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the questions you are asking aren't ones those who have been lifelong members normally would ask.

Edited April 21, 2009 by pam

[Islander]

Our wishes, desires, expectations and dreams are irrelevant when it comes to the truths and certainty of the Gospel and the doctrine of the kingdom.

God has spoken, He has laid up His doctrine by the mouth of His prophets and it can not be changed and will not be changed to accommodate social trends or expectations of any kind, even from members of the church. The notion that "things will be sorted out" is a man-made construct.

The plan has been laid out transparently for all whom the Lord sees fit, in mortality, to know and encourage to take steps to fulfill our side of the covenant. Those that did not have access to the covenant in this life and crossed the veil without the ability to fulfill it due to no fault of their own (say you were born an aborigine in the Amazon) God in His infinite mercy has made provisions for such. Those reading these lines, fully aware and capable to humble themselves as to be worthy to receive the full measure of the covenant will have no excuse or remedy. By failing to fulfill the above they will be accountable in the full measure of the law. Before the all searching eye of God no resemblance of excuse can stand up to such light.

I know the above can be a preamble to very difficult conversations. Difficult as it may be for us to accept, we, ourselves, are the mos difficult and intractable barrier to happiness.

[Palerider]

I am also trying to figure out this poster.....she doesn't understand Temple Sealings....been a member all her life....and wants another PB and doesn't understand half or maybe more of the Doctrines of the Church....I am confused...I feel like a pull behind toy right now....

[Kirajo]

I've been a member all my life and I still get questions that pop up that may seem "silly" or "obvious" to others. Just because I've been a member doesn't mean I grew up in an active LDS family, and I didn't start thinking on my own about the church until high school. I was the kid in seminary asking the annoying obvious questions that everyone rolled their eyes at.

[Palerider]

I've been a member all my life and I still get questions that pop up that may seem "silly" or "obvious" to others. Just because I've been a member doesn't mean I grew up in an active LDS family, and I didn't start thinking on my own about the church until high school. I was the kid in seminary asking the annoying obvious questions that everyone rolled their eyes at.

I was the kid in seminary that was class President and got Impeached for cheating....:o:o

[Kirajo]

Haha, well done Pale!!! Well done.

[Moksha]

Soul Searcher, in reading many posts I have seen even more complexing sealing problems than the one you mentioned, but the wisest answer I have heard time and time again is that God will work it out. You can have a cosmic-level trust that He will not leave you hanging.

BTW, I see asking questions on these forums to be an excellent chance to fill in both the gaps and the rough edges of our religious knowledge.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Moksha

[Hemidakota]

I dont know if Im alone in this but I find the idea of 'being sealed' contraversial. Im trying to accept different aspects of church doctrine as they come up, but this is something Im finding VERY hard.

There are so many situations were being a 'family forever' does not work. What happens if a family member leaves the church? Then the one who has stayed gets punished too, as they will not be able to be with that person who they love.

Or divorce? What about the children who wont get to have their parents together?

Or my poor friend who was sealed, then her husband was killed in a car crash a month later. She is NOT ALLOWED to be sealed again, so if she gets married again, the children wont be sealed to anyone, and her poor husband will not have his kids sealed to him, and he will NEVER be allowed to be sealed to the woman he loves. This sucks for everyone concerned.

Sealings are a good idea in theory, but only if everyone stays active, married, and alive. Its not realistic or feasible.

I know I can pray to accept this doctrine, but its still so unfair, especially my beautiful friend.

Any comments?

When the Savior was upon the earth, he told his apostles:

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Matt. 16:19.)

That same authority to bind on earth that it may be bound in heaven, is the priesthood of God which is now upon the earth again, that husband and wife may be sealed together for time and all eternity; that we may have our loved ones in the next world the same as here. That makes a real heaven.

This ordinance, vital for the living, is also just as vital for all God's children, including those who died without these glorious opportunities. Therefore, the ordinance of marriage and sealing children to parents must also be done vicariously for the dead, and also in the temple. The great genealogical work of the Church is of vital importance.

A temple then, has two main purposes: It is a holy edifice in which the most sacred ordinances of the gospel may be performed for the living and for the dead.

A great responsibility rests upon the living in this day: first, to prepare themselves by so living that they may be found worthy to receive these saving blessings for themselves; second, that they may also be worthy of doing the vicarious work for their kindred dead. Without the living, the dead have no hope, and the earth would be cursed at his coming.

When we have a wayward child, through the parents and the grace of the Godhead, we can still save them in the end after proper repentance by this temple sealing of families.

[Jim108]

I know nothing about this subject, but I need to say this. A question was asked and I can see concerted effort by some members to: one, kill this thread by suggesting you do your own research, two, go after the poster by suggesting the poster is something other than who she claims to be. If their is anything here that smells funny, it's not from the original poster. Love each other, Jim

[Islander]

I know nothing about this subject, but I need to say this. A question was asked and I can see concerted effort by some members to: one, kill this thread by suggesting you do your own research, two, go after the poster by suggesting the poster is something other than who she claims to be. If their is anything here that smells funny, it's not from the original poster. Love each other, Jim

JIM:

There is nothing "fishy" here, Jim. Precisely because you know absolutely nothing about the subject, any opinion you may have lacks any value in the exchange. You should sit this one out.

The questions raised are valid based on the assertion of the OP. The encouragement to do research is also quite valid. There are no new questions in this forum. The same questions have been asked for almost 200 years so it would be wise for some to go and search on their own and seek clarity and discernment from the Lord after that.

[Jim108]

JIM:

There is nothing "fishy" here, Jim. Precisely because you know absolutely nothing about the subject, any opinion you may have lacks any value in the exchange. You should sit this one out.

The questions raised are valid based on the assertion of the OP. The encouragement to do research is also quite valid. There are no new questions in this forum. The same questions have been asked for almost 200 years so it would be wise for some to go and search on their own and seek clarity and discernment from the Lord after that.

I disagree, some here are unfair to the original poster. As far as sitting this one out, I have already said I know nothing of the subject and will not comment on it. However, I get my back up when I see the thoughts and speech of another squashed. Almost every subject on this forum can bee looked up. So your logic does not stand. It is the real time conversation and input that make forums like this so useful. God Bless, Jim

[Maureen]

pam said: Certainly the teachings and doctrine of sealings have come up during your lifetime as a member.

Sometimes we just need to give people the benefit of the doubt. How do you know that you are understanding Soul_Searcher's comment the way she's intended? I doubt very much that she would have thought about her friends situation when she was 10 years old. So it makes sense that a person will ponder ideas, doctrine when it relates to their life in the present.