Am I Justified to Leave for Lack of Love?

[estradling75]

I guess I can learn to be more civil in this forum but im from the camp that we shouldnt always gloss over these deep issues sounding so monotone that only the monotoned-in-tuned can understand. I didnt mean to offend but you can choose to be offended or not thats your choice.

 

 

Nevertheless we are all here as LDS members to learn from each other and many words of wisdom are contained here in these forums.

 

While I agree with the monotone, I disagree with the inheritant presumption that one is either crude or monotone.  If those are your only two options then you need to increase your vocabulary.

 

You don't need to be crude to be colorful, you don't need to be crude to be blunt, you don't even need to be crude to be offensive.

 

For example I once heard a story about a person who cussed a lot being told off by someone that didn't like cussing at all.  After hearing the crude cusser go off on a rant the other person replied "Oh look at the feeble mind trying to forcibly express itself" 

 

The counter was not crude, and it was not monotone.  It was very colorful, expressive, blunt, and even some what offensive.  It can be done.  And Christ for all that he worked with the sinners he did not partake of their sins.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

We all need to learn to stay connected with the younger generation because they are losing their faith in droves, 

 

Actually, I work with teenage sex offenders.  I get along with teenagers quite well.

 

When you use the term "put out" to describe sex, you are objectifying women.  No amount of justification can make that acceptable.

[yjacket]

Its obvious that Im not at your level of supreme spirituality but for you to chastise me in such a strong manner rather then understandably disagree tells me how disconnected you are with younger generation of folks.

 

We all need to learn to stay connected with the younger generation because they are losing their faith in droves, they dont want to be taught too they want to be understood, the internet is bringing all kinds of crap and evil into our homes and no matter how badly a parent want to fight it, our kids will explore and find things. Its best to be a friend to our kids while they go through these stages rather then an enemy of their choices and actions.

 

That is frightening; I'm not a friend to my child I'm a parent.  When they get to be an adult and on their own then I can start to be their friend but until then I'm their teacher, mentor, authoritative figure, exemplar but I am not their friend.

 

While it is important to understand their perspective, what they need and want are authoritative figures in their life to tell them right from wrong to let them know the boundaries in life.  I'm the parent and that's the way it is, what I say goes, my job is to train them on how to be responsible individuals so that they can emancipate themselves from me.  As they get older and are able to obey the simple rules we have they obtain more and more responsibility.

 

No the problem with the younger generation is a lack of responsibility and duty.  Just last week, I had a phone interview with a young fellow who has a job but is going back for a master's degree; phone interview went well and we called him in for an in-person interview.  Guy shows up in jeans and a polo over 20 min. late with no phone call ahead that he was going to be late.  The guy knows he screwed up and mentions it to me afterwards that he felt he messed, I'm a nice guy to him but I can't hire him for a temp position.  Those are the breaks, in the real world you screw up badly like that and people well say sorry for you but I can't help you.-this is not atypical.  At least 50% of the folks I interview in the younger generation are absolutely horribly prepared.  From dress, to speech, to skill sets to expectations the younger generation wants well they want unicorns.

 

http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yuppies-are-unhappy.html

And I see it first hand interviewing them. And this is a relatively recent trend, I've talked with plenty of older hiring managers who say they have never seen a generation so ill-prepared.

 

It's really weird, I am actually supposed to fall into the above, but I'm more a Gen-X than a millennial. 

 

To be blunt, I'd say the above article is relevant to this thread.  Yes, you have marital problems, but no marriage doesn't have problems; you've got little kids and yet you are seriously considering leaving your responsibilities and obligations for something you feel you deserve.

 

The old American ideals of hard work, thrift, duty, obligation are pretty much dead; now it's all about me, what does some-one owe me.  Sometimes life just sucks, but that is no excuse to give-up; in fact the times in life that we grow the most, the times where we feel the most satisfaction is when we have been through fire and survived.

 

So many conveniences in life now, cell phones, internet, tv, etc. that so many kids from the younger generation come into the real world with no idea that life can be real hard so the moment it gets real hard they want to bail, they moan and groan and complain, stomp their feet and say life is unfair, life is too hard.  Yeap life can be hard and it can be unfair, but that is just part of the struggles of earning our stripes here on this rock.

[priesthoodpower]

That is frightening; I'm not a friend to my child I'm a parent.  When they get to be an adult and on their own then I can start to be their friend but until then I'm their teacher, mentor, authoritative figure, exemplar but I am not their friend.

 

While it is important to understand their perspective, what they need and want are authoritative figures in their life to tell them right from wrong to let them know the boundaries in life.  I'm the parent and that's the way it is, what I say goes, my job is to train them on how to be responsible individuals so that they can emancipate themselves from me.  As they get older and are able to obey the simple rules we have they obtain more and more responsibility.

 

That is even more frightening, so you are saying that when you go out on a fishing trip with your child there is absolutely no room to play around/ joke around and shoot the cruise because you are 100% in parent/teacher mode? I hope you got multiple kids so that they have playmates and friends in the house with them.

[yjacket]

That is even more frightening, so you are saying that when you go out on a fishing trip with your child there is absolutely no room to play around/ joke around and shoot the cruise because you are 100% in parent/teacher mode? I hope you got multiple kids so that they have playmates and friends in the house with them.

Nope never said that. I'm going on a camping trip this weekend with my son and we will have lots of fun, shot bbs, carve pumpkins, etc; but my purpose with him isn't just to "hang out" and be "a friend". It is to spend quality time with my son and to teach him, sure I play with my kids a lot play monster chase them around the house, etc. But when I tell my kids to do something, there is no "friend" aspect.

 

Here's a pro-parent tip; a parent is always teaching, just because it's not in words or in a specific "teaching moment" doesn't mean it's not there.

 

I'd smack my kid (figuratively speaking) if he ever said "yo dude what's up! (with a big high five and weird handshake)" to me, prior to adulthood.  You know you are parenting successfully when you can give your kid the "look" and they obey or stop whatever they are doing.

 

I take it your kids aren't very old.  I was there once, I said to myself I'm going to be my kid's best friend. "Johnny, please don't whine about feeding the cats", "but daaad", "Johnny, it is not polite to whine, you really need to feed the cats", "but daaad I'm tired", "Oh johnny, I know you're really tired, that's so bad, you really should go to bed earlier, now please feed your cats", "but daad I can't get my shoees on", ad nauseum.  At bedtime, "Johnny please go to bed, you really should go to bed", "but daad I want to play" "Oh I know, here let's play a few minutes", " now please go to bed", "but daaad I want to play some more" ad nauseum. What a miserable way to be a parent.

 

Now it's "Johnny go feed the cats", "but daaad I'm tired", "Johnny I've told you no whining, you whined here is the discipline", short while later "Go feed the cats", "Okay dad".  Bedtime: "Johnny it's bedtime, go to bed", "but dad I want to play","I understand, but this is the rule, go to bed or you will be disciplined", johnny goes to bed.  Actually, now it's more just "go to bed", "okay". Or "Go to bed", kid is a little slow, dad gives look, kid sulks to bed.

 

Just because I'm strict, doesn't mean I don't care or that I don't play with my kids, or that I don't try to understand their point of view, or that I have a million different rules.  It simply means, what I say goes, you don't like it, tough deal with it.  And kids thrive on it.  Children love structure, rules, boundaries.  They are continually looking to adults to understand the rules of the game, how to be an adult.  My kids are extremely happy, in fact the more disciplined I am with the rules the happier they are.

 

A well-disciplined child is a well-behaved child and a happy child. 

 

Now when they get to be a teenager, things change a bit; hopefully I'll have trained them right that they will merit more and more responsibility and will have less and less rules.  For example, going out at night, in by 8pm, follow that rule, you get more responsibility in by 9pm, follow that get more responsibility in by 10pm, etc.

[The Folk Prophet]

Not that it matters...but I don't find the term "putting out" crude at all. I'm actually surprised at the vehement responses. How very interesting.

[priesthoodpower]

Nope never said that. I'm going on a camping trip this weekend with my son and we will have lots of fun, shot bbs, carve pumpkins, etc; but my purpose with him isn't just to "hang out" and be "a friend". It is to spend quality time with my son and to teach him, sure I play with my kids a lot play monster chase them around the house, etc. But when I tell my kids to do something, there is no "friend" aspect.

 

Here's a pro-parent tip; a parent is always teaching, just because it's not in words or in a specific "teaching moment" doesn't mean it's not there.

 

I'd smack my kid (figuratively speaking) if he ever said "yo dude what's up! (with a big high five and weird handshake)" to me, prior to adulthood.  You know you are parenting successfully when you can give your kid the "look" and they obey or stop whatever they are doing.

 

I take it your kids aren't very old.  I was there once, I said to myself I'm going to be my kid's best friend. "Johnny, please don't whine about feeding the cats", "but daaad", "Johnny, it is not polite to whine, you really need to feed the cats", "but daaad I'm tired", "Oh johnny, I know you're really tired, that's so bad, you really should go to bed earlier, now please feed your cats", "but daad I can't get my shoees on", ad nauseum.  At bedtime, "Johnny please go to bed, you really should go to bed", "but daad I want to play" "Oh I know, here let's play a few minutes", " now please go to bed", "but daaad I want to play some more" ad nauseum. What a miserable way to be a parent.

 

Now it's "Johnny go feed the cats", "but daaad I'm tired", "Johnny I've told you no whining, you whined here is the discipline", short while later "Go feed the cats", "Okay dad".  Bedtime: "Johnny it's bedtime, go to bed", "but dad I want to play","I understand, but this is the rule, go to bed or you will be disciplined", johnny goes to bed.  Actually, now it's more just "go to bed", "okay". Or "Go to bed", kid is a little slow, dad gives look, kid sulks to bed.

 

Just because I'm strict, doesn't mean I don't care or that I don't play with my kids, or that I don't try to understand their point of view, or that I have a million different rules.  It simply means, what I say goes, you don't like it, tough deal with it.  And kids thrive on it.  Children love structure, rules, boundaries.  They are continually looking to adults to understand the rules of the game, how to be an adult.  My kids are extremely happy, in fact the more disciplined I am with the rules the happier they are.

 

A well-disciplined child is a well-behaved child and a happy child. 

 

Now when they get to be a teenager, things change a bit; hopefully I'll have trained them right that they will merit more and more responsibility and will have less and less rules.  For example, going out at night, in by 8pm, follow that rule, you get more responsibility in by 9pm, follow that get more responsibility in by 10pm, etc.

Admittingly your approach did not work very well when they were younger and now you are forced to be a stick in the mud. Here is a pro kid-tip or are you too old that you forget what it was like to be a kid? Teaching, caring, sharing, befriending, loving, discipline can all be accomplished by both parties not just the parent. 

[Backroads]

Admittingly your approach did not work very well when they were younger and now you are forced to be a stick in the mud. Here is a pro kid-tip or are you too old that you forget what it was like to be a kid? Teaching, caring, sharing, befriending, loving, discipline can all be accomplished by both parties not just the parent.

Still a far cry from being given a kid's best friend before being a parent. Study after study throws that tactic under the bus.

[auzziegirl]

I may get thrown under the bus, but, here goes. In my humble opinion, simply put, sex is an important part of marriage. Its an implicit part of marriage. It is an implied part of marriage. Other than children, its the only other reason to be married, or....you may as well just be friends.

 

Sex builds intimacy, trust, friendship, and love. For many men, sex equals love, and feel very unloved and undesired without it. If it has been expressly and clearly stated that it is a need for one partner that has been ignored by the other, then yes, if it persists, is absolutely grounds for a divorce.

[priesthoodpower]

Still a far cry from being given a kid's best friend before being a parent. Study after study throws that tactic under the bus.

Thank you for sharing with us what you have learned from a book, cause we all know that studys of OTHER people and their experiences are 100% accurate in determining how the other 3 trillion people in the world behave and act.

[yjacket]

Admittingly your approach did not work very well when they were younger and now you are forced to be a stick in the mud. Here is a pro kid-tip or are you too old that you forget what it was like to be a kid? Teaching, caring, sharing, befriending, loving, discipline can all be accomplished by both parties not just the parent. 

 

Nope, I just spent a weekend having a blast with my son.  We had a campfire, ate smores, laughed, camped in a tent, played games.  I can't tell you how many times he would come up to me spontaneously and say "Dad, I love you" or "You're the best Dad ever!!".  I must be doing something right if he is content, happy and expressing his love to me.

 

I'll tell you the number one reason why I'm not his friend.  Friendship denotes equality; he and I are not equals.  I've been on this rock a heck of a lot longer than he has and when there is that much distance in wisdom, age, maturity, experience, etc. it is impossible to be friends. In fact, for me to equate my relationship with my son as a friend is downright insulting.  The depth of my relationship with him is something that only a Father and Son can have.  The best word I can think of is Mentor.  The same with my father, my father would be downright insulted and I would insult our relationship if I called him my friend.  While we are more equals now than when I lived under his roof, there is no question he is still my ultimate Mentor.

 

I really don't care that someone might think of me as a stick in the mud.  My job isn't to raise a friend, my job is to train and teach an individual how to become a contributing member of society and then to be able to have their own job, their own family and how to navigate the uncertain waters of this life.  

 

I have a huge beef with modern culture that teaches this idea that parents have to be hip or with-it, they have to be friends, that dads are sticks in the mud.  Just look at the Croods; how many childrens' movies make parents out to be lame idiots.  50 years ago it was quite different, comics, movies and culture in general realized the wisdom of parents and the father was the wise teacher guiding to keep them out of trouble.  Today kids know better than parents.

 

Modern culture sucks, it is evidence by the number of broken marriages, broken homes, and broken children.  And now we have children who were raised in a modern culture of broken marriages, homes, etc. who can barely function on their own as adults raising the next generation.

[yjacket]

Thank you for sharing with us what you have learned from a book, cause we all know that studys of OTHER people and their experiences are 100% accurate in determining how the other 3 trillion people in the world behave and act.

And what books have you read on parenting?

[Backroads]

Thank you for sharing with us what you have learned from a book, cause we all know that studys of OTHER people and their experiences are 100% accurate in determining how the other 3 trillion people in the world behave and act.

 

 

Because your experience in buddying up to children and giving them everything they want and fearing to actually discipline or, heaven forbid, teach them anything is considered the No. 1 way to parent?

 

Please. Your experience does not trump mine nor anyone else's and I'm guessing you don't know a single thing about studies. You have done one thing, a couple of kids like you, and suddenly you know better than I or anyone else. Congratulations.

 

Well-done studies do manage to capture a hefty representation of the population. Experience has proven that in most cases fearfully avoiding teaching your child anything in case he "doesn't like you anymore" is a bad parenting decision.

 

Call me crazy, but yes, I am going to go with the tried-and-true tactics of the vast majority.

 

When you can prove to me that 3 million other people have successfully raised great kids to a significantly greater degree by being their bestest buddy, I'll listen.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Backroads

[priesthoodpower]

its pointless now to try and discuss anything with you guys

Im going to go find another LDS forum that is not filled with Utah based "Little house on the praire" forum members because you guys are just too much.

 

Any ways I got the spirtual food and advice I needed in my original thread about my marriage and things are improving in my relationship. I know that the Bishop is the spiritual leader over the ward members but it took this 'anonymous forum' and decades of wisdom from other LDS members for the spirit to really get me to make changes, something that 8 years and 3 Bishops couldnt do. Maybe its just me or maybe its the timing of everything but the internet is a tool for God to progress his work and im glad that I am able to use it for my benefit.

 

peace and endure to the end y'all!

[jerome1232]

You are a real pleasant guy aren't ya.

[Backroads]

its pointless now to try and discuss anything with you guys

Im going to go find another LDS forum that is not filled with Utah based "Little house on the praire" forum members because you guys are just too much.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how the extremely common advice of "don't buddy up to your children" has been limited to small-town Utah. When did that happen?

[Leah]

its pointless now to try and discuss anything with you guys

Im going to go find another LDS forum that is not filled with Utah based "Little house on the praire" forum members because you guys are just too much.

 

Any ways I got the spirtual food and advice I needed in my original thread about my marriage and things are improving in my relationship. I know that the Bishop is the spiritual leader over the ward members but it took this 'anonymous forum' and decades of wisdom from other LDS members for the spirit to really get me to make changes, something that 8 years and 3 Bishops couldnt do. Maybe its just me or maybe its the timing of everything but the internet is a tool for God to progress his work and im glad that I am able to use it for my benefit.

 

peace and endure to the end y'all!

If you had actually taken the time to listen to and get to know the posters on this forum, you would know we come from and live all over the world.

But some people don't like it when facts get in the way of their prejudices.

[Guest]

Thank you for sharing with us what you have learned from a book, cause we all know that studys of OTHER people and their experiences are 100% accurate in determining how the other 3 trillion people in the world behave and act.

 

From 3 trillion people to small-town Utah... what an interesting thing this is... are we counting dead people here?  Because, there are only a little over 7 billion people worldwide... but in any case...

 

Dunno what your background is but I've been around most of Asia... the home of over 4 billion of those 7 billion people alive and countless others dead... and it is rare to find a culture in Asia who has this "my kid is my friend" disciplinary style... and you will also notice that a lot of Asian culture is very close-knit, family-oriented, clannish type of culture where 3, even 4 generations of family live in the home.  Parents don't kick out adult kids and kids don't take parents to senior communities, so they end up just living with each other, supporting each other.... but parents are not their children's best friends.  You can't really lay down the law consistently if you're best buds.  Even when you're playing as a family or horsing around or spending quality time together, parents and children are always cognizant that they are not peers and do not address each other as such... that element of respect is ingrained in each child as they look up to the generations before them - even adult children.  But then the child do not lack for best friends.. that's what siblings and cousins are for...

 

So, I've never been around small-town Utah... if that's the way they structure their families, then they're in the majority of the world population and they should keep it up... because, as a product of that type of upbringing, it's the best in my opinion.

[The Folk Prophet]

Other than children, its the only other reason to be married, or....you may as well just be friends.

 

I guess we can just throw D&C 131 out the window then.

[omegaseamaster75]

I guess we can just throw D&C 131 out the window then.

I wouldn't go that far, but how will a sexless, unhappy marriage be judged?

[mdfxdb]

I wouldn't go that far, but how will a sexless, unhappy marriage be judged?

off topic.

[jerome1232]

I wouldn't go that far, but how will a sexless, unhappy marriage be judged?

What exactly is a spouse that gave the marriage their all and never quite on it to be judge for exactly? I would fear to be a spouse who throw in the towel and gave up on their sacred covenant long before I'd fear to attempt to keep my marriage together.

Edited October 22, 2014 by jerome1232

[The Folk Prophet]

I wouldn't go that far, but how will a sexless, unhappy marriage be judged?

 

You may not, but apparently someone else did.

 

Sex is, decidedly, NOT the only reason to be married other than children. Even children is not the reason. It is a reason. It is a good reason. But even those (like me) who have not been blessed with children are still meant to be married, because it is a requirement for the Celestial Kingdom.

 

As for your question, my views on sex in marriage is that the corrupted world has done it's best to turn marriages into a self-centered stomping ground for wickedness, angst, antagonism, lust, and self-fulfillment. None of which are supposed to be, in any degree, part of marriage. And therefore, until one remove these things from marriage entirely, then it's fairly safe to say that failure is a possibility, and that failure that stems from wickedness will bring judgement upon us.

 

Apply that thinking how you like to the question at hand.

Edited October 22, 2014 by The Folk Prophet

[Guest]

Sex is, decidedly, NOT the only reason to be married other than children.

 

Wouldn't that be like a.... duh?  I mean... if that's the case, I'm putting my stocks in Viagra!

[The Folk Prophet]

Wouldn't that be like a.... duh? 

 

You would think...but according to the world...................