Today's Testimony Meeting - Venting

[slamjet]

Today's meeting started off with one of our elderly brothers who has a pension of making his life seem miserable as a way to be better than us.  And today, he was in rare form. 

 

Let's see...

- We don't know what suffering was because HE lived through the great depression.

- We don't know what hard time are because HE lived through the great depression.

- Both of the above with the added reason because HE lived through WW II.

- The world is so full of sin, that homosexuals are being treated as normal (yea, he went there).

 

I will not go further on is ranting because it should have been shut down with all his blathering’s about how tough he has it, how sinful the world is, practically daring the leadership to shut him up and, yes, more on homosexuals.  On the one hand thankful that the Lord loves him and all sinners, but on the other hand, the evils of the gay people.

 

The one good thing, and this was a lesson on how good rises up in the face of evil (yes, I do believe he was spouting evil) there were others who stood up and in a very gracious, and in one case, beautiful and thought provoking way, countered and brought the spirit back into the meeting.  It was to the point that it got me off my duff to contribute, talking about how I am thankful for those people, and there are many in my ward, who looked past my major indiscretions and, with warm hearts, welcomed and fellowshipped me back into activity.

 

I generally am not fond of testimony meeting, using that day to go around the Stake to take care of my tech calling, but today was an interesting meeting.

[dahlia]

Man, I wanted to stand up and tell some people to be parents and not give in to their kids. We had several very small kids come up. At first some wanted to be there, but then chickened out, other children had to be told what to say. Just terrible.

 

If you don't have your own testimony that you can say without someone whispering it in your hear, sit the heck down. 

[Vort]

Man, I wanted to stand up and tell some people to be parents and not give in to their kids. We had several very small kids come up. At first some wanted to be there, but then chickened out, other children had to be told what to say. Just terrible.

 

If you don't have your own testimony that you can say without someone whispering it in your hear, sit the heck down. 

 

I agree, but here is the other side to the story. When I was a young father, my oldest, who was four, wanted to bear his testimony and asked for my help. So I went up to the stand with him. As he stood at the pulpit, he clearly didn't know what to say. So I asked him who he loved. He said, "You and mama." I told him to say it to the people. (Result: "I love you and Mama" over the mike.) I asked if he knew who the prophet was, and told him to tell it to the people. It continued like this for perhaps 30 seconds or a minute.

 

In retrospect, I may have done much better to have taken him home and used family home evenings to practice testimony-bearing and to explore what a "testimony" is. But I didn't come into parenthood knowing how to do everything, and learning things has been a long, messy project for all involved. So I try to have patience with parents in such situations.

[Jane_Doe]

I agree, but here is the other side to the story. When I was a young father, my oldest, who was four, wanted to bear his testimony and asked for my help. So I went up to the stand with him. As he stood at the pulpit, he clearly didn't know what to say. So I asked him who he loved. He said, "You and mama." I told him to say it to the people. (Result: "I love you and Mama" over the mike.) I asked if he knew who the prophet was, and told him to tell it to the people. It continued like this for perhaps 30 seconds or a minute.

 

In retrospect, I may have done much better to have taken him home and used family home evenings to practice testimony-bearing and to explore what a "testimony" is. But I didn't come into parenthood knowing how to do everything, and learning things has been a long, messy project for all involved. So I try to have patience with parents in such situations.

 

We had a similar instance in my ward today: girl ~6 was in the stands baring her testimony about baptism "wiping the germs away".  She told mommy she want to go up to the stand and then promptly got shy (mom told us the story).

[notquiteperfect]

Sounds like some here may need to forward this to their bishops and ask that it be addressed:

https://www.lds.org/church/news/first-presidency-letter-testimonies-in-fast-and-testimony-meeting?lang=eng

[Guest]

The same several children get up to bear their testimonies every month. Mainly one family's children and a handful of others. Maybe it shouldn't bother me, but it does. I really wanted to share my testimony related to some testimony-strengthening things surrounding my dad's death, but there wasn't time. I wouldn't let my children monopolize the microphone every month.

[Guest]

As far as the OP, I would be a little irked that the bishopric wasn't shutting him down. That's not edifying or building up, in any way.

[Bini]

I used to get really annoyed with the cutesy or clueless testimonies that families give. I remember just sitting there and rolling my eyes. Now that I'm a parent myself, a young one with a young child (still figuring out the parenting thing), I've become more tolerant and understanding of the (sometimes chaotic) improvising. I like Vort's thought process of guiding children with sharing their testimony during family home evening. That just seems like a better setting to help get kids ready for fast and testimony meeting at church. But kids can be unpredictable too, and despite preparation, things don't always pan out as planned...

 

I totally "get" the elderly rambles. When I was a nurse I did a lot of one-on-one care with folks, and many of them felt that I had no idea what hardship and sacrifice was. I also encountered a good handful of them that referred to me as the "coloured girl" even though I wore a name tag. With these guys, I just took it for what it was, they'd lived a life and in a to,e that I knew nothing of. It was different then. So I gave them that, and I'd just smile, and let them get on their soap box to rant, rave, and tell their stories. The one thing I did correct was my name, I'd say, "My name is Bini," every time I got called something else.

[notquiteperfect]

There are also these that the bishops could utilize:

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/12/when-children-want-to-bear-testimony?lang=eng

 

https://www.lds.org/friend/2008/10/testimony-glove?lang=eng

Edited December 7, 2014 by notquiteperfect

[Palerider]

When these kind of things happen in testimony meeting the Bishop can do something about it. It's a teaching situation and you can call the person in and speak with them privately and or have someone give a how to talk about sharing testimonies in Church. Of course when a talk is given do they really pay attention?? Again the Bishop can use his office and speak with people privately. As far as children sharing testimonies that one could be covered in Ward Council about the best way to handle that one. That's my opinion.

[NeuroTypical]

And this is why Robert Lund rocks.

Brother Johansen says God fixed his prostate 

Sister Hill wails that her son's gone apostate 
Missy Brown details her trip to Belize 
These are a few of the testimonies

Brother Stone calls his ex-wife to repentance 
Sister Dean can't form a blubber-free sentence 
Ammon Smith's grateful the Jazz beat the Kings 
These are a few of the Fast Meeting things

There's unchaste movies at Wal-Mart in Layton 
Hillary Clinton's a minion of Satan 
God loves you just a bit less if you're gay 
These are some nuggets I've picked up today

When this low-key 
Karaoke 
Shows how odd we are 
I simply remember I'm not Warren Jeffs 
And then I don't feel bizarre

Madison cries that her mom flushed her turtle 
Then she announces her daddy's infertile 
Tyler loves Jesus and recess and peas 
These are a few of the testimonies

Elder Jones gripes that less-actives frustrate 'im 
Nine CTR's thank the same things verbatim 
Brother McPhie knows Rush Limbaugh is true 
And The Da Vinci Code may well be too

Sister Cabell says the United Nations 
Must be the beast from the book Revelations 
Folks squirm through dubious doctrine and then 
Everyone drowsily mumbles "Amen"

When euphor-ya 
Starts to bore ya 
Here's the thing that's sweet: 
Each talk brings us nearer Hymn 152 
And then we go home - to - eat!

[notquiteperfect]

At the very least, whoever is conducting can remind the congregation that a testimony needs to uplift, strengthen...others and be about the Gospel.  They could also tape a 3x5 card on the podium mentioning to keep it short and simple, etc.

[Palerider]

At the very least, whoever is conducting can remind the congregation that a testimony needs to uplift, strengthen...others and be about the Gospel.  They could also tape a 3x5 card on the podium mentioning to keep it short and simple, etc.

Not trying to be a naysayer....can't count how many times this is done and still the ones that we are talking about in this thread are the ones who don't get it or pay attention or think what they are saying is proper. Bishops get nervous in Testimony meetings. Trust me !! :)

[Vort]

Today's testimony meeting in my ward was wonderful, as usual. I even offered a brief testimony, though I had not intended to do so. I love my ward. What a really great bunch of people.

[notquiteperfect]

Not trying to be a naysayer....can't count how many times this is done and still the ones that we are talking about in this thread are the ones who don't get it or pay attention or think what they are saying is proper. Bishops get nervous in Testimony meetings. Trust me !! :)

 

I know but it at least sends a message to the others that someone sees the issue/s and are trying to do something about it. To me, this is step one, step two is a talk with the bishop as you suggested. :)

[yjacket]

I've been in some very interesting testimony meetings to say the least . . . (once the Bishop actually pulled someone off the stand), but I don't ever get upset about it.  I either take it as a learning experience or find something uplifting about it.  I do find it pretty unique, what other religion allows lay members to have access to the microphone? It also takes courage to get up in front of up to 300 people and say what is on your mind.

 

As for the OP, to be perfectly honest; today's life is extremely easy compared to WWII life.  Many of those folks didn't even have indoor plumbing.  Having to do your business during the wintertime in below freezing temps in a drafty outhouse is not something I want to experience. And yes the world is full of sin, we are told as much in the scriptures that the world will become more and more wicked; and yes homosexual behavior (which is a great sin) is becoming more and more accepted as "normal" behavior.  Now maybe the testimony bearer didn't say it the right way or in the right manner, but from what you've said, to a large extend he's right.

 

What I find more fascinating, if I were in that situation is that I would love to sit down with him and talk to him about his experiences. Not many people are left that actually remember WWII and in the next 10 years a significant portion of them will be dead. Are we so hedonist that we are unable to seek out the experiences and advice from those who lived an entirely different life that was much harder than our own.

 

To Eowyn, I'm sure your testimony would have been fantastic.  The only times I've not shared my testimony when I wanted to is when I've been lazy and waited until after when I should have gotten up.

 

On little kids, I don't know, I won't get upset about it. As a parent do I encourage my little kids to go up and bear their testimony -no, would I discourage it, probably not as long as they know what they want to say ahead of time.  Would I help them if they froze up, probably.  I personally wouldn't have them get up and have me tell them what to say, but I won't begrudge others that do, it doesn't affect me.  

 

Live and let live.

Edited December 8, 2014 by yjacket

[Guest MormonGator]

I'm sorry your testimony Sunday didn't go well. Ours was a wonderful, spirit filled afternoon. 

[dahlia]

I'd rather sit through 'we got a flat tire on the highway and didn't die as we crossed the median into the path of a semi' stories than 'doctrine.' Thankfully, I haven't heard anything near what John Lund wrote.

[AngelMarvel]

I was told by someone that if you get up and bear your testimony more than 4 times a year it's to much. People don't want to see the same people up there every month.

 

I was also told that you should be able to bear your testimony in less than 2 minutes. If you go longer...then you are not just bearing a testimony, but you are chit chatting about your life or just telling stories.

 

Don't know if either of those are true...but, they kinda make sense. Although sometimes I think when a person is bearing their testimony and they tell a little story with it... it makes the testimony all the more spiritual.

 

I don't mind children getting up there to bear their testimony... in fact there are a couple children in our ward that bear theirs and they strengthen mine...they are that powerful.

 

I have seen people in our ward get up and you would think they were giving a lesson or talk by what they were saying. I don't really care about their family vacation, birthday party, child being born...etc. I want to hear their testimony. They can tell me all that other family stuff later.

[Palerider]

We had a brother in our Ward that would get up and talk about how Christ appeared to him while he was watching TV one month and the next month it was something else about how Christ appeared to him. I finally asked one of my councilors to ask this brother to see me after Testimony meeting in my office. We had a great talk and I asked him not to share those stories from the pulpit. I gave him several reasons why. We had a great talk. He had no intentions of wanting to do any harm but in his mind he thought what he was saying might help someone.

[rbowman838]

I think many Bishops must agonize at Testimony meeting. The counsel from the First Presidency is clear, but too few of our Bishops are reluctant to counsel their ward members about this problem. It is extremely hard to teach this principle without offending parents. However, if we receive the counsel from the First Presidency as we should, I am sure Testimony meetings throughout the Church would see a new level of spirituality. PureTestimony is a powerful teacher. I don't think the children bearing their testimony are as disruptive to the Spirit as adult members who take off on tangents, travelogues, or political rants. We, as members, should do everything in our power to make our Testimony meetings what they should be.

[Leah]

Ours today was amazing.

First of all, it was mostly men. When I first moved into this ward last year, I wondered for a long time if any of the men in the ward were EVER gonna get up.

But the most moving testimony was fro the brother with ALS.

He first had most of the ward fighting back tears when he got up from his wheelchair and mounted the stairs to the stand (with some assistance by loving brethren) to help the young men (of which we have very few) administer the sacrament.

And many more tears were shed when he was the first to share his testimony.

Again, loving brethren helped him to the stand where he once again got up from his wheelchair to stand and bear his testimony.

He has shared in the past that he feels an urgency to do this befor ALS takes his voice. Speech is already difficult for him, and after a few minutes his body trembled with the effort of standing, but stand and bear his testimony he did.

I love this brother and his wife. He was the first person to welcome me into the ward (my first ward change since joining the church in 2011) when - as the ward clerk - he called me on moving day to say he had heard I was moving into the ward that day and did I need any help? Boy, did I!

The next thing I knew, he and the missionaries and several other men from the ward showed up to unload the U-haul.

He and I immediately bonded as "sclerosis buddies" (I was diagnosed with MS the year before I joined the church and it was the MS that led to the remarkable events that brought me into the church). He makes me weep and humbles me when he tells me that I inspire him! My challenges are nothing compared to his.

The Spirit today.....there are no words.

[Just_A_Guy]

Easily 40% of the testimony meetings in our ward is routinely taken by primary kids (who probably constitute 60-70% of the ward! demographically). We've told our kids that they can go up . . . as long as they do it in their own. Today, for the first time, one of them did (our six-year-old daughter). In the middle of bearing testimony of more prosaic things, she announced that she "can't wait to have kids"--which was actually kind of a spiritual moment for my wife and me, because this daughter has been ADAMANT that she does NOT want kids.

But, I tell ya . . . There's nothing that'll make you review your conduct towards your kids more quickly and critically than the realization that your six-year-old is proceeding to an open mike to address two hundred of your neighbors . . .

[slamjet]

Yea, about kids, we didn't let our young kids go up there.  Because of that, they didn't go up on their own to give their first testimonies until they were about 12 years old.  But they've given plenty of talks so it wasn't like the pulpit was a new place for them.  We didn't want them to think that it was "fun" to get up every testimony meeting.  Besides, me and my ex really don't care for little kids giving their testimonies.

[omegaseamaster75]

As far as the OP, I would be a little irked that the bishopric wasn't shutting him down. That's not edifying or building up, in any way.

This.

 

We are so worried about offending or hurting feelings that we won't even stand up to people who are committing a wrong right in front of us.