Surrogacy and Church discipline

[Bini]

I don't want to turn this into a bashing thread, personally, I support surrogacy but I'm curious about how a bishop would address a known surrogate mother. We've had discussion on surrogacy before but not in this context. I met a lovely lady who is LDS and is carrying a child for a couple overseas. I've known her for a few months now and we've talked about her unique situation. From what I understand, she has not received any kind of disciplinary action for her decision, minor or major. This makes me think that bishops/stake presidents handle surrogacy on a case by case basis. Would that be a correct assessment? If there is in fact a protocol that's supposed to be followed, what kind of disciplinary action would a surrogate mother receive? 

[Guest]

As I understand it, it's discouraged, but not a discipline-worthy decision, per se. 

[mordorbund]

Handbook 2 simply states:

21.4.16

Surrogate Motherhood

The Church strongly discourages surrogate motherhood.

 

 

 

Similar wording is used for Artificial Insemination and In Vitro Fertilization when it involves sperm not from the husband, also with regards to Sperm Donation and Surgical Sterilization (including Vasectomy) as an elective birth control.

 

Contrast that with the entry on abortion, which includes:

 

 

Church members who submit to, perform, arrange for, pay for, consent to, or encourage an abortion may be subject to Church discipline.

Edited February 5, 2015 by mordorbund

[Vort]

I am fascinated by the technology. I think the reality of the procedure creates all sorts of serious potential pitfalls for real human beings. At its best, it is miraculous technology. But I'm betting that a large percentage of cases are not at its best. As always, I support the Church's stand, and in this case I'm in full agreement with it, as well.

[The Folk Prophet]

I'd be less worried about church discipline, and more worried about why the church strongly discourages it, and therefore, more worried about what God thinks.

[Guest]

My opinion is that it has to do with avoiding hurt and messy situations more than a morality issue where God is concerned. So often we look at recommendations as do's and dont's and harsh commands, when more often than not they're about us having the best chance for happiness that we can.

[The Folk Prophet]

My opinion is that it has to do with avoiding hurt and messy situations more than a morality issue where God is concerned. So often we look at recommendations as do's and dont's and harsh commands, when more often than not they're about us having the best chance for happiness that we can.

 

You say it's not, per se, a morality issue, but then you go on to describe exactly what makes a morality issue a morality issue. As in, "they're about us having the best chance for happiness that we can." <-- the whole point of morality.

[Just_A_Guy]

I dunno, TFP.  I'm not sure that a "morality issue" is defined strictly by whether it leads to "messy" situations.  At least colloquially, when I hear the term "moral issue" I think of something that's universally wrong per se (even if occasionally justifiable--like abortion, for instance).  I'm not sure surrogacy, as currently practiced, fits into that category.

[Bini]

I would agree that perhaps the main concern might be the complications that come from a mother carrying another couples' baby and less about how the child is carried.

But I want to stay on topic. This isn't a debate about whether you feel it's right or wrong, the discussion was whether surrogacy warrants disciplinary action, which from what was shared - it does not.

[The Folk Prophet]

I dunno, TFP.  I'm not sure that a "morality issue" is defined strictly by whether it leads to "messy" situations.  At least colloquially, when I hear the term "moral issue" I think of something that's universally wrong per se (even if occasionally justifiable--like abortion, for instance).  I'm not sure surrogacy, as currently practiced, fits into that category.

 

Morality is strictly defined by what is right and what is wrong, which in turn is defined by God, which we know God's purpose is to bring about the immortality and eternal life of man, which the point of is our joy. In other words, our best chance for happiness.

 

But, whatever. It was just an idea. I'm not married to it.

[Crypto]

I would agree that perhaps the main concern might be the complications that come from a mother carrying another couples' baby and less about how the child is carried.

But I want to stay on topic. This isn't a debate about whether you feel it's right or wrong, the discussion was whether surrogacy warrants disciplinary action, which from what was shared - it does not.

I think a fair portion of whether things require disciplinary action stem from an action being wrong or people feeling it's wrong. I don't think you can easily divorce peoples feelings towards this issue and opinions on disciplinary action. Other than the handbook doesn't say there may be disciplinary action.

The handbook doesn't recommend it, i'm sure there are ways in which you could cause yourself to get disciplinary action taken, but that would not be in the context of normally constituted surrogacy now'a'days. 

[Guest]

Mitt Romney's son had surrogate mothers for his children... or maybe it was just child... can't remember clearly now.

[mordorbund]

Mitt Romney's son had surrogate mothers for his children... or maybe it was just child... can't remember clearly now.

 

So? Was it right and proper to do so?

[pam]

It has always been my understanding that the church is against using a surrogate when it is her egg that is fertilized by artificial insemination.

 

I work with a girl that is currently pregnant and acting as a surrogate for a couple because the wife can't carry a child.  The baby is the child of this couple.   

[Guest]

So? Was it right and proper to do so?

 

It's for Mr. Romney and his bishop/stake pres to discuss.

 

For myself, I would rather adopt rather than hire a surrogate... I would even go so far as to find a sister-wife before hiring a surrogate.  But that's just me.

 

By the way... I guess it wasn't clear... I was merely bringing up Mr. Romney as a "news!  did you know?" statement and not some kind of support for surrogacy.

[Guest]

It has always been my understanding that the church is against using a surrogate when it is her egg that is fertilized by artificial insemination.

 

I work with a girl that is currently pregnant and acting as a surrogate for a couple because the wife can't carry a child.  The baby is the child of this couple.   

 

I think Surrogacy is handled on a case-by-case basis.  But, I don't think surrogacy by itself is going to call for church discipline regardless of the source of the egg/sperm.  I've read a while ago (surrogacy was a thread here on lds.net a while back which caused me to read up on it) that a mother and a surrogate went to ask their bishop, stake president, and sent a letter to the 1st presidency to get advice on their desire for surrogate motherhood.  From what I remember, the 1st Presidency advised them to pray and follow the Spirit... they weren't discouraged.  The embryo came from the parents - the surrogate was just the "oven".

[hagoth]

...For myself, I would rather adopt rather than hire a surrogate...

 

Ditto. We had a kind soul who offered to be a surrogate for us. We thanked her for her kindness, but we chose to adopt instead.

[kapikui]

There is apparently a trend in surrogacy where the impregnation is handled the "old fashioned" way.  I suspect that method would lead to church discipline.

[Palerider]

I myself will stand with the handbook.

[omegaseamaster75]

 

 

 

17.3.16

Handbook 1 Surrogate Motherhood

The Church strongly discourages surrogate motherhood. 

 

No discipline involved just that it is strongly discouraged

[Palerider]

17.3.16

Handbook 1

Surrogate Motherhood

The Church strongly discourages surrogate motherhood.

No discipline involved just that it is strongly discouraged

That's how I stand on the subject Edited February 9, 2015 by Palerider

[char713]

Bringing a third person's body or genetic material into the process of conceiving or carrying a child is always discouraged by the church, regardless of what stage the embryo is in. I imagine the church will have a similar opinion and stance about the newest form of tri-parenthood, which uses a third person's DNA to correct genetic disorders at the mitochondrial level. http://www.bbc.com/news/health-31069173

 

One of my friends from high school, and a member of the church, is pregnant with twins via IVF using donor eggs. The donor is her younger sister. As thrilled as I am that they have been able to achieve this medical marvel and overcome her infertility caused by premature ovarian failure.. I would not do it if I were in her shoes. I'm sure (I hope) that it will strengthen their bond as sisters. But both of them will know, whether or not the children are told, that one of them is the biological mother and the other a carrier, and that the husband's DNA was mingled with the sister's. While traditional conception and parenthood is not free of sticky issues by any means, I believe that a big part of why the church strongly discourages these methods of conception is to prevent these certain kinds of hurt and confusion.

Edited March 22, 2015 by char713

[The Folk Prophet]

Of course with adoption, the child knows neither parent is really his/hers...but that's encouraged.

 

I'm not sure the child knowing the parent isn't "really" their parent has anything to do with the discouragement. I think it's more related to the biological process of mixing genes without the marital bond. It's not exactly adultery (obviously), and hence no discipline, etc., but that's the only legitimate reason I can think for it to be strongly discouraged. And, frankly, that's the idea behind it that doesn't sit comfortably with me. I can't say I fully understand this. But...that's my thought on that one. Now simple surrogacy....not sure there. But perhaps something akin. 

[classylady]

Are there any issues about Sealing of children to parents when using donor eggs/sperm?

Edited March 23, 2015 by classylady

[char713]

That's a really good question. It's not something I feel comfortable asking her about.. but yeah I'm really curious now! Because if it is conceived in the covenant versus born, then yeah it might be necessary. Interesting.