Tea Party as a Relief Society activity

[Blackmarch]

To further clarify my last post-

we teach people to not drink coffee and to avoid tea, having something officially announced as a tea party  (or beer or mormon beer party or etc...) can be confusing, and doesn't set the best example.


But on the other hand I don't really think it's very important. If the bishop doesn't feel uncomfortable with it or inspired to change it, then I wouldn't worry about it.

[Guest]

I'd just call it a Victorian Party.

[Magus]

I'd just call it a Victorian Party.

 

Excellent way around that problem. :)

[Palerider]

I'd just call it a Victorian Party.

And have some great conversation and have fun.

[Suzie]

What do you think of the Relief Society having a "tea party" using herbal teas?

 

I have mixed feelings on this.  I realize that there are many herbal teas that don't break the Word of Wisdom but for many people who live the "Spirit of the Law" this would be an activity that might alienate some.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Loved the idea. One of my good friends from Church many years ago, organized a surprise "tea" party/baby shower for me and I thought it was great.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Suzie

[Guest]

By the way, you also run the risk of alienating Democrat church members.

[Maureen]

I might agree on the tea argument, but not on coffee. Coffee is addictive and caustic. We're going to be facing a huge health crisis in the US when stomachs start to rot out. I for one will not bemoan the death of the coffee industry and the "loss" of tens of thousands of low wage jobs.

 

Incorrect.

 

Caffeine use does not result in addiction.^[1][2] By definition, a "caffeine addiction" would involve compulsive caffeine use despite significant adverse consequences.^[65][66] The compulsive state associated with an addiction arises through pathological positive reinforcement.^[65][66] Long term high-dose caffeine intake has not been shown to cause drug addiction in experimental models, nor has compulsive consumption of caffeine or caffeinated beverages been observed in humans.^[1][2] Caffeine addiction was added to the ICDM-9; however, its addition is contested since this diagnostic model of caffeine addiction is not supported by evidence.^[1][2] Evidence from research models suggests that caffeine does not act upon the dopaminergic neural mechanisms that give rise to an addiction.^[2]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine

 

M.

[Irishcolleen]

Do it outside and call it a garden party.

[Guest]

Incorrect.

 

Caffeine use does not result in addiction.^{%5B1%5D%5B2%5D} By definition, a "caffeine addiction" would involve compulsive caffeine use despite significant adverse consequences.^{%5B65%5D%5B66%5D} The compulsive state associated with an addiction arises through pathological positive reinforcement.^{%5B65%5D%5B66%5D} Long term high-dose caffeine intake has not been shown to cause drug addiction in experimental models, nor has compulsive consumption of caffeine or caffeinated beverages been observed in humans.^{%5B1%5D%5B2%5D} Caffeine addiction was added to the ICDM-9; however, its addition is contested since this diagnostic model of caffeine addiction is not supported by evidence.^{%5B1%5D%5B2%5D} Evidence from research models suggests that caffeine does not act upon the dopaminergic neural mechanisms that give rise to an addiction.^%5B2%5D

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine

 

M.

When people put medical terms and research to it I always go... hmmm...

This is the same medical people who say that saturated fats are going to give you cardiovascular disease.

I tend to go more by personal observation when it comes to these things. For example - I used coconut oil for cooking because my mother uses coconut oil for cooking. We eat a lot of coconut oil fried stuff growing up. Saturated fat. She uses this because that's what her mom used and what her mom's mom used... etc. We eat fried stuff because that's what generation after generation of my family ate. So when somebody says don't eat fried foods because you're going to get heart attack, we go, huh? Don't eat rice because it is full of carbs - There's even this thing that a friend of mine sent to me - don't eat rice because it has arsenic. Huh? You tell Filipinos to not eat rice, you'll have a revolution.

My mom drinks coffee. Her mom doesn't (not popular in her day). But my mom put a label on her coffee - "Not for children". So, there's something about coffee that is not good. She has since changed her brand of coffee to decaf. When I played sports, it was a cardinal sin to drink alcohol, coffee, tea, and soda during training season. So, there's something about it that is not good for athletes.

So, they can't prove that coffee is addictive. Yet, my mother can't do without her coffee even if she tells us kids not to touch the stuff. And it must be a common thing because memes such as "Don't talk to me before I've had my first cup of coffee" pop up on my FB wall... coffee withdrawal symptoms are present. It may not be as bad as, say, heroine, but it's there at least for my mother.

So yeah, the WOW was an easy one for me. My mother has always told me to avoid the stuff, so I never touched it even as a Catholic. And you know Catholics drink wine for sacrament. So there's no prohibition on alcohol in the Catholic faith. But, my dad worked for a beer company and so our fridge always has beer in it. I was about 5 or so when I had my first sip of lite beer and it tasted so disgusting and smelled just as bad. Johnny Walker, the same thing. It never developed a desire to drink those stuff especially when my mother has Calamansi or Guava or Guyabano juice sitting right next to the alcohol.

I've run my life like that. Holistic stuff and as close to the earth as possible - consistent with the WOW before I even heard of the WOW. Interestingly, my Dad died of lung cancer at 70 years old - never smoked a day in his life, ate clean and nutritionally balanced, no alcohol, no coffee, no tea, exercised everyday. He was living the WOW without having heard of the WOW.

So yeah, I quit looking at the WOW as a ticket to disease-free living or whatever health thing and simply look at the WOW as obedience to God's commandments without having any desire at all to justify why God thinks it has health benefits.

Edited March 26, 2015 by anatess

[Crypto]

 

Incorrect.

Actually i'm pretty sure caffeine does have an effect of dopaminergic systems.

http://examine.com/supplements/Caffeine/
 

 

 

This inhibition of adenosine can influence the dopamine, serotonin, acetylcholine, and adrenaline systems.

While not to the same extent as other substances, and more context dependent on effects. For the sake of discussion, drugs  can be Addictive, Emotional dependence, or Physically dependent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_dependence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_dependence

Caffeine use can definitely develop into a physical dependence. If you have heard people talk about how they must have their morning coffee, that is a side effect of their physical dependence. Because of how it works on dopamine It can be slightly addictive in the right circumstances.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Crypto

[Irishcolleen]

If anyone thinks caffeine is non addictive they can talk to me.  I had bad withdrawal symptoms and cravings.  I had migraines, vomited, and was fatigued for two weeks after going cold turkey.  It was worth it.  My blood pressure went down, I have fewer caffeine crashes, etc...

[Maureen]

The health professionals do not consider the affects of caffeine a true addiction; not like alcohol. If you stop caffeine consumption abruptly you might have withdrawals, but the consumption of caffeine moderately is not harmful.

 

I also found this article saying that Americans don't drink enough coffee (GASP!).

 

On average, Americans only drink about one cup of coffee per day, according to data collected by the United States Department of Agriculture. Even when Americans drank the most coffee they ever have, back in 1946, they still only drank two cups a day on average.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/21/its-official-americans-should-drink-more-coffee/

 

M.

[Guest]

The health professionals do not consider the affects of caffeine a true addiction; not like alcohol. If you stop caffeine consumption abruptly you might have withdrawals, but the consumption of caffeine moderately is not harmful.

 

I also found this article saying that Americans don't drink enough coffee (GASP!).

 

On average, Americans only drink about one cup of coffee per day, according to data collected by the United States Department of Agriculture. Even when Americans drank the most coffee they ever have, back in 1946, they still only drank two cups a day on average.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/21/its-official-americans-should-drink-more-coffee/

 

M.

Americans Should Drink More Coffee is in the same vein as Tilapia Is As Bad As Bacon and the Avoid Egg Yolks super-focused interpretation of research instead of the holistic approach.

I wonder if the survey counts all Americans that don't drink coffee in addition to those that drink 10 cups a day to come up with the average of 1 cup a day per American... I can't think of one person I am close to (they all own Keurigs now), including those from my work, that drinks only one cup. Just today, as I was sitting there waiting for my car at the dealership service station, 2 people who were sitting there with me drank the entire pot by themselves. My mom drinks at least 2 by habit - one in the morning and one with the mid-afternoon snack.

The memes seem to support this too... they usually point to the "first cup", implying succeeding cups.

But yeah, I'm no scientist.

Edited March 27, 2015 by anatess

[Palerider]

Do it outside and call it a garden party.

Weather permitting ?? Lol

[Crypto]

The health professionals do not consider the affects of caffeine a true addiction

This is generally true, but not always, and not exactly for the reasons you state.

The medical diagnosis of addiction can occur for a wide variety of behavior. Here is a list of diagnostic criteria, if three are fulfilled a diagnosis for substance dependence(addiction) might be applied.

 

• Tolerance
• Withdrawal
• Continued use despite harm
• Loss of control
• Attempts to cut down
• Salience
• Reduced involvement

 

Caffeine easily fulfills two of the categories, Tolerance and Withdrawal. There are and have been cases when other categories have been fulfilled. It's not common, but it is possible to be diagnosed with caffeine addiction.

Addiction normally has more to do with having an "addictive personality" than the choice of poison.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Crypto

[Bini]

I like the ring of "garden party".

I might do that today outside with my daughter :)

[Latter Days Guy]

Woohoo! This time the dance around words (being politically correct) isn't from my Left Wing self

 

I don't think it's a big deal, as a tea party or tea time, is just another term for sitting down in a social setting and eating. Whenever we're visiting family in England, the phrase is typically used in this sense, and they are active LDS. So it could just be a cultural thing. On the same thought, my daughter has played "tea party" with friends and cousins who come from active LDS households, and their parents have never made a fuss about it - in fact - their mums also use the wording.

Well I've just cooked tea for my son and I, not a single cup of actual tea was involved! Never realised it was such a hot potato for LDS! 

Edited March 27, 2015 by Latter Days Guy

[Litzy]

I'm sick to death of all these you should drink coffee for your health/coffee is bad for your health scientific articles. Seems they are just coming from different angles. You'd think the medical community could come up with a definitive coffee is bad/good status and stick to it.

 

I'm with anatess. Outside the WoW, approach it holistically.

[Maureen]

I'm sick to death of all these you should drink coffee for your health/coffee is bad for your health scientific articles. Seems they are just coming from different angles. You'd think the medical community could come up with a definitive coffee is bad/good status and stick to it.

 

I'm with anatess. Outside the WoW, approach it holistically.

 

Can you give an example of an article that says coffee is both healthy and bad? Most articles I have read mention the health benefits of coffee; and it's just common sense that too much anything is not good for you.

 

M.

[Backroads]

Can you give an example of an article that says coffee is both healthy and bad? Most articles I have read mention the health benefits of coffee; and it's just common sense that too much anything is not good for you.

 

M.

I've never seen it in one article, but the articles I see in health magazines are either for coffee or advise against it. Not in the same article. Some articles are for coffee, others say it's best to drink only a little or not at all.

[mordorbund]

Here's an article that plays both sides, and then reaffirms the Church's stance: http://askgramps.org/29919/will-church-rescind-ban-coffee-due-alzheimers-studies

[Kayvex]

No big deal. My friends and I have "tea" all the time, as one of them is british and one of them is romanian. We just call it tea, but usually it's say, a late lunch or a get together. The second you start ripping too deep into things is when situations can get dangerous and "judgy". Just live! You aren't breaking the word of wisdom by putting a bit of orange juice in a teacup, and it's a good, enriching activity to gather in a calm and social setting. Worrying "oh it's called a tea party that could look bad", just makes it look bad, no?

[Guest]

No big deal. My friends and I have "tea" all the time, as one of them is british and one of them is romanian. We just call it tea, but usually it's say, a late lunch or a get together. The second you start ripping too deep into things is when situations can get dangerous and "judgy". Just live! You aren't breaking the word of wisdom by putting a bit of orange juice in a teacup, and it's a good, enriching activity to gather in a calm and social setting. Worrying "oh it's called a tea party that could look bad", just makes it look bad, no?

This is all fine and good for everyday stuff... but a Church Activity might be different especially if it's not in Britain or anywhere that culturally holds tea time and especially when there are a lot other options on what to call it that are just as cool.

[Litzy]

Can you give an example of an article that says coffee is both healthy and bad? Most articles I have read mention the health benefits of coffee; and it's just common sense that too much anything is not good for you.

 

M.

 

 

I've never seen it in one article, but the articles I see in health magazines are either for coffee or advise against it. Not in the same article. Some articles are for coffee, others say it's best to drink only a little or not at all.

 

I think Backroads summed it up.

 

I would point out that the ones that speak about the evils of coffee tend to be your more natural health stuff.

 

I still don't understand the medical disconnect.

[Maureen]

...I still don't understand the medical disconnect.

 

Can you give an example of this disconnect? Is it really a disconnect or is it just your interpretation of the information provided? For example, here's an introduction in an article about the benefits of drinking water.

 

Americans seem to carry bottled water everywhere they go these days. In fact, it has become the second most popular drink (behind soft drinks). But water lovers got a jolt recently when we heard that a new report had found that the benefits of drinking water may have been oversold. Apparently, the old suggestion to drink eight glasses a day was nothing more than a guideline, not based on scientific evidence.

 

http://www.webmd.com/diet/6-reasons-to-drink-water?page=1

 

The part in bold is not saying anything negative about drinking water just a clarification about the quantity of water to drink daily.

 

Is the information about coffee that you've read similar to this?

 

M.