School: Students made to deny God as part of exercise

[Ironhold]

http://www.12newsnow.com/story/30371707/student-teacher-taught-god-is-not-real

A school teacher here in Texas literally made kids try to deny God as part of a classroom exercise.

Even the school administration is saying that this won't stand.

[The Folk Prophet]

For a minute I thought it was like the movie God's Not Dead. But it's nothing of the sort.

[RMGuy]

As I read that assignment it appears that there are a list of statements including one that says "There is a God" and another that says "The ugliest sea creature is the manatee." The directions then indicate the students are to indicate whether the statement is either a factual claim (FC), Commonplace Assertion (CA), or Opinion (O).  

 

Based on those directions I'm not entirely sure how we get the idea that these students were made to literally deny the existence of God.  

[estradling75]

As I read that assignment it appears that there are a list of statements including one that says "There is a God" and another that says "The ugliest sea creature is the manatee." The directions then indicate the students are to indicate whether the statement is either a factual claim (FC), Commonplace Assertion (CA), or Opinion (O).  

 

Based on those directions I'm not entirely sure how we get the idea that these students were made to literally deny the existence of God.  

 

Did you even read the article?...  Yes that was the question.  The student answered per their religious beliefs and the teacher told them they were wrong...  

 

This means the student had to choose between getting a good grade and faith... Or to expand the buzz word headline a bit the Student had to deny God or be graded poorly.   How is that in anyway right?

[Backroads]

Sounds like the instructor deliberately chose a that collection of statements simply to be antagonistic. How can I make myself look good to my fellow atheists while covering my rear saying it was just an exercise?

[Guest MormonGator]

No way. That teacher would be hearing from my attorney in five minutes. 

I am so proud of this little girl. She is speaking truth to power. 

[Guest]

This is what makes Christians look bad.

 

People.  Believe it or not... the statement that God is Real is an example of a commonplace assertion.  And THAT is even taught in Roman Catholic School.

 

Just because something is Fact to you doesn't mean that it is, in fact, Fact.

 

But yes, the teacher should have known this was going to be a hot-button item putting God in a quiz no matter if it's just spelling words...

Edited October 28, 2015 by anatess

[Vort]

Based on the information provided, I tend to agree with RMGuy. I understand the feelings of the student and the parents, but I think I stand on the side of the teacher -- again, based on the information provided.

 

This is partly a question of interpretation of word meaning. Is a "fact" anything that is true, even if unproveable? For example, can I say that it is a "fact" than another earthlike planet with intelligent humanoid life exists elsewhere in our galaxy? I mean, that is either true or false, but it's utterly unproveable. If I pretend it's true, then is it "fact"?

 

A "fact" is a truth known by actual experience or observation. So if I witness a bank robbery, I might know some "facts" of the matter that no one else knows. Strangely, that means that some things might be "facts" for me but not for others.

 

The existence of God is "fact" if you mean that any true thing, even something unproveable, is "fact". But I doubt that was the meaning of "fact" that was provided in class. I suspect it was something closer to the dictionary definition.

 

Our own religion teaches us that God is found through prayer and revelation. Thus, his existence, while very real, is not "fact" in the dictionary definition, except to the individual. God intentionally keeps his factuality well-hidden, so that he is found only by those who seek him.

 

If I were this girl's father, I might not be happy about what I might perceive the teacher's underlying intentions to be. But I would use this question as a chance to discuss these issues, to point out that not all reality is "fact", and to confirm that God does exist but that we cannot insist on that answer by fiat.

 

God's existence is an assertion, not an opinion -- and by the narrow definition given above, not a "fact". That doesn't make God less real. Lots of unproveable assertions are true (and lots are false). God is made known by revelation to those who seek him, not to the world by logical argument or scientific investigation.

[EarlJibbs]

The article states that the teacher is a Christian, so I doubt that the motives were intentional. Living near Katy, and knowing how much Christianity still resides in Houston and the surrounding cities (schools), this is blown out of proportion. Ill conceived, but not outrageous. 

[mordorbund]

That's okay, the district also failed the assignment:

 

 

 

"Still this does not excuse the fact that this ungraded activity was ill-conceived and because of that, its intent had been misconstrued," the district said in its statement.

[The Folk Prophet]

That's okay, the district also failed the assignment:

 

Haha.

[NeuroTypical]

Heh.  I took a college-level philosophy class called "Fact, belief, truth, and knowledge".  Plenty of discussion and disagreement in that class as the professor tried to advance his understanding of those words, what they mean, and how they interact.

 

To expect a room full of 7th graders to have all this stuff figured out, and about God no less, and to grade them according to your understanding?  Not going to be a calm thing.

[Backroads]

 

 

Based on those directions I'm not entirely sure how we get the idea that these students were made to literally deny the existence of God.  

 

 

Based on the information provided, I tend to agree with RMGuy. I understand the feelings of the student and the parents, but I think I stand on the side of the teacher -- again, based on the information provided.

 

 

 

You both have good points, but what alarms me about the article is the following quote

 

"Jordan said her reading teacher said both her answers were wrong and that she had to admit God wasn't real."

 

Now, this could be a 7th grader jumping to conclusions, a badly written article, or a combination of both.

 

But no way should a teacher be telling a student to admit God wasn't real.

 

Hopefully that's not what happened.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Backroads

[Vort]

That's okay, the district also failed the assignment:

 

Awesome.

[Vort]

You both have good points, but what alarms me about the article is the following quote

 

"Jordan said her reading teacher said both her answers were wrong and that she had to admit God wasn't real."

 

Now, this could be a 7th grader jumping to conclusions, a badly written article, or a combination of both.

 

I strongly suspect some combination of the two. The article was nothing like unbiased.

[Guest]

The teacher had it in for the kids' belief in God.                Fact, commonplace assertion, or opinion?

 

My knee-jerk reaction to this is suspicion.  If you look at the comments below, all the atheists are defending her.  No atheist is complaining that she brought up the "G" word in a public school.

[kapikui]

You both have good points, but what alarms me about the article is the following quote

 

"Jordan said her reading teacher said both her answers were wrong and that she had to admit God wasn't real."

 

Now, this could be a 7th grader jumping to conclusions, a badly written article, or a combination of both.

 

But no way should a teacher be telling a student to admit God wasn't real.

 

Hopefully that's not what happened.

 

Given that every single news article I've ever read were I knew something about the event, or the subject matter at hand has been egregiously wrong in several of their "facts", I suspect that there are severe inaccuracies in the article.  

Edited October 28, 2015 by kapikui

[prisonchaplain]

For a minute I thought it was like the movie God's Not Dead. But it's nothing of the sort.

 

It's something of the sort.  NOT as extreme as the professor or setting of the movie, yet equally disturbing because the students were much younger.  The lesson appears not to have been fully thought out, and when the student bucked, the teacher probably (we are speculating here) felt challenged, and doubled-down, hoping to make the distinctions clear.  This is a classic case of the illustration overshadowing the message.

 

Circa 1980s Seattle -- high school, we were asked to something about the Genesis creation "myth."  It became obvious that the teacher WAS trying to provoke.  There may have been one or two other Christians in the class, besides me, but apparently we all figured out that, while we believe in God's creation of the world, Genesis 1 does qualify as myth, using a literary definition.  The teacher prodded us a bit, but none bit.  Probably ruined her little bash-the-Christian-fundamentalists fantasy, that never played out.  :-)

Edited October 29, 2015 by prisonchaplain

[Bini]

You both have good points, but what alarms me about the article is the following quote

 

"Jordan said her reading teacher said both her answers were wrong and that she had to admit God wasn't real."

 

Now, this could be a 7th grader jumping to conclusions, a badly written article, or a combination of both.

 

But no way should a teacher be telling a student to admit God wasn't real.

 

Hopefully that's not what happened.

 

My doubts rest on the 7th grader. I would agree with others, seems this situation has been blown out of proportion, in the end this exercise was not well thought out...perhaps.