Writing in the temple?

[Jane_Doe]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I didn't realize there was such a policy.  But my biggest question is more of a practical nature.  Where do you carry anything to write with/on when you're in temple clothes?  My pockets are too small to carry anything useful.

I like to write on a simple piece of paper which is folded up to the size of a credit card.  That and a small pen fit in my pockets just fine, both in the temple and other places.  

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

There used to be a policy/law against jurors being allowed to take notes while sitting in the jury box.  In the N.F.L. (National Forensics League) we were debating the policy and the proposed legislation to allow jurors to take notes. One of the concerns was that they may not be paying attention properly if they were writing.  Another argument was that the court reporter notes were available if they needed to review anything.  I'm not sure what happened to that legislation.  But I do know that some states do allow that.  It may be that only my state had such a policy.

I'm with @zil on this one...  Granted taking notes while listening to a presentation is a very different thing than writing for a prayer.  

Edited August 11, 2017 by Jane_Doe

[Jane_Doe]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

In the endowment, we covenant to keep certain things private, even -- dare I say it? -- secret. We do not speak of those things or write them down. Such sacred things are to be kept very close to the vest. They are to ponder in our minds and hearts, to commune with God in spirit and not communicate to others.

Just because a person is writing doesn't mean that they are transcribing temple secrets.  Conversely, a evil person can transcribe temple secrets a million ways without writing in the Celestial Room.  

2 hours ago, Vort said:

But I hesitate to condemn previous authorities or decry their decisions as men stabding impudently or stubbornly or foolishly between you and God.

No condemnation here, only love.  I get that we as limited humans really struggle to understand someone who is different than us.  It's hard, I get that.  And I think many other people get it too.  We need to forgive each other of our shortcomings and love each other through them.   The other temple president specifically- I have a lot of love and empathy for him: he was my old stake president for over a decade.  I watched his kids grow up, watch him change through time, and he righteously guide our stake.  He's a great man, even if he like many other struggle to understand those who are different.  

2 hours ago, Vort said:

Now that you have been granted this blessing, perhaps you might start working on your ability to ponder and pray without relying on pen and paper. 

The way I speak to God is not a disability that needs to be overcome.  It is not a sin, it is not unrighteous, there is nothing "wrong" with my voice speaking to God.  My voice is part of my divine nature and something to celebrate and thank God for.

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

The way I speak to God is not a disability that needs to be overcome.  It is not a sin, it is not unrighteous, there is nothing "wrong" with my voice speaking to God.  My voice is part of my divine nature and something to celebrate and thank God for.

Not sure why the defensiveness. Sorry if I  offended you.

If one cannot ponder without a pen and paper, that sounds to me like a limitation. Why wouldn't you want to learn to ponder without external props? Can't see how that would not be a worthy goal, any less than my working to be an audible learner. Do you think I would have been well-served to say, "I don't learn through lecture, and God made me this way, so I'm good"? I'm happy that I have learned how to learn by lecture.

I guess I assumed that anyone would rather be able to do something desirable than not. Maybe I was wrong.

[Jane_Doe]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

Not sure why the defensiveness. Sorry if I  offended you.

If one cannot ponder without a pen and paper, that sounds to me like a limitation. Why wouldn't you want to learn to ponder without external props? Can't see how that would not be a worthy goal, any less than my working to be an audible learner. Do you think I would have been well-served to say, "I don't learn through lecture, and God made me this way, so I'm good"? I'm happy that I have learned how to learn by lecture.

I guess I assumed that anyone would rather be able to do something desirable than not. Maybe I was wrong.

I appreciate your kind sentiment here.  I also apologize if I was too sharp in my previous post.  I'll try to better explain myself:

I have no desire to change my alto sining voice into a soprano.  There is nothing "better" or "wrong" about one singing voice over another.  Same with one prayer voice versus another.  It does not matter if one person folds their arms to pray, another clasps their hands, or another a pen-- all of these are people raising their voices to God.  We are all different be divine design, the bring a rich harmony to God's choir.   And then temple is God's house, a place where His chorus signing His lyrics should all be welcomed.

Now, your college lecture example is different in a number of basic ways.  For starters, rather than expressing you are receiving information.  Hence, you need to adapt to the way that information is being delivered.  For a lower-quality professor, it's their way or the highway, so you just need to suck it up and deal with how they do things.    But what about a great professor?   A great professor doesn't just chat at you, but also has a text book, writes notes, visual demonstrations, activities, and many lessons even come in song and dance form!  A great professor reaches all types of learners.  God is the best professor of all.   

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

I like to write on a simple piece of paper which is folded up to the size of a credit card.  That and a small pen fit in my pockets just fine, both in the temple and other places.  

I'm with @zil on this one...  Granted taking notes while listening to a presentation is a very different thing than writing for a prayer.  

Yes, that was one of the points brought up in that debate I mentioned.  The team ended up neutral on the idea.  But of course a jury isn't an endowment.

[askandanswer]

On 12/08/2017 at 1:10 AM, Jane_Doe said:

 

So I called the temple matron expressing my concern about not being able to pray/write at the temple.  Honestly, the conversation with her left me sobbing.  She didn't understand, and just shut me down, I felt hurt and shunned.  Too hurt to try talking to the matron myself again, I asked my mom to speak to the temple president about this for me (mom is a temple worker and the temple president is an old family associate).  Again, shut down. Hurting, I seriously considered delaying my temple trip-- which would also meaning missing my sister's sealing.  I hurt really bad.  

 

So there are some who would disapprove of writing in the temple. But there is a Divine precedent for writing ON the temple in Alma 10:2 and we have been counselled to follow the example of our Father in all things.:) 

I am Amulek; I am the son of Giddonah, who was the son of Ishmael, who was a descendant of Aminadi; and it was that same Aminadi who interpreted the writing which was upon the wall of the temple, which was written by the finger of God.

Edited August 13, 2017 by askandanswer

[SilentOne]

4 hours ago, askandanswer said:

So there are some who would disapprove of writing in the temple. But there is a Divine precedent for writing ON the temple in Alma 10:2 and we have been counselled to follow the example of our Father in all things.:)

So much for that "Your body is a temple, and you wouldn't go draw/write on the temple," argument against tattoos.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, SilentOne said:

So much for that "Your body is a temple, and you wouldn't go draw/write on the temple," argument against tattoos.

But we write on the temple all the time.

"House of the Lord"

"Holiness to the Lord"

"Exit"

"Emergency Exit Only"

Edited August 14, 2017 by Guest

[dahlia]

On 8/14/2017 at 12:01 PM, Carborendum said:

But we write on the temple all the time.

"House of the Lord"

"Holiness to the Lord"

"Exit"

"Emergency Exit Only"

And apparently the Church doesn't have an issue with Tongans and Samoans (and probably other groups I don't know of) having tattoos that are important to their culture.

[JohnsonJones]

In answer to the original question, many months late.

Most temples have an area where you can do this.  Some only have chairs, but some have desks or tables where you can sit and ponder (or write) if you wish to.  Obviously, you shouldn't write things holy to the temple, but you can write thoughts and other things as you ponder.  These are utilized many times by Temple workers as places to rest or meditate or relax at times, but they are also designed for patrons who wish to meditate or think beyond certain areas after their sessions, or to contemplate other aspects.  If you wish for one of these areas, mention it to one of the many Temple workers or even the presidency and ask if you may utilize one of them.

[Jane_Doe]

5 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

In answer to the original question, many months late.

Most temples have an area where you can do this.  Some only have chairs, but some have desks or tables where you can sit and ponder (or write) if you wish to.  Obviously, you shouldn't write things holy to the temple, but you can write thoughts and other things as you ponder.  These are utilized many times by Temple workers as places to rest or meditate or relax at times, but they are also designed for patrons who wish to meditate or think beyond certain areas after their sessions, or to contemplate other aspects.  If you wish for one of these areas, mention it to one of the many Temple workers or even the presidency and ask if you may utilize one of them.

Yes, I was told that originally many months back.  Frankly for me (someone who prays with a pen) this answer is being told "I'm sorry, you're forbidden to pray in the actual celestial room, but if you want to pray in the waiting lobby that ok."  It was VERY hurtful and really damaged my temple experience at first. 

[anatess2]

On 8/11/2017 at 10:27 PM, Jane_Doe said:

Now, your college lecture example is different in a number of basic ways.  For starters, rather than expressing you are receiving information.  Hence, you need to adapt to the way that information is being delivered. 

So is prayer.  If you're only expressing in your prayer and not receiving information from the Spirit, then something is missing.  Personally, I can receive info while I'm writing but my brain is too engaged in writing that my attention is not focused.  I can't pray and write at the same time.  The writing distracts me from the prayer.  Writing at the temple would also be distracting for me from my main focus of receiving promptings from the Spirit.  Reflecting on the experience by writing it down is of great value.  But I can do that outside the temple.  So, I guess what I'm saying is... I can't relate to your experience.

I say try to learn to pray without props.  It would become helpful if you find yourself stranded with Idris Elba on an icy mountain after a plane crash with nothing but your clothes on your back.  Staring at Idris can only be enjoyable for so long.  Eventually, you'll have to pray. 

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by anatess2

[Jane_Doe]

9 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

  Personally, I can receive info while I'm writing but my brain is too engaged in writing that my attention is not focused.  I can't pray and write at the same time.  The writing distracts me from the prayer.  Writing at the temple would also be distracting for me from my main focus of receiving promptings from the Spirit.  Reflecting on the experience by writing it down is of great value.  But I can do that outside the temple.  So, I guess what I'm saying is... I can't relate to your experience.

  The diversity amongst God's children is amazing.  As are the strides we take to understand each other and become one.  

[SharonJ]

Hello! To the original poster, I want to tell you, I can totally relate to you. 

God did make us differently, and some of us process the world differently.

I am saddened by the fact that most of the people who replied to you did not seem to want to understand you but wanted to make you feel broken.

I am very glad to hear that you were able to make contact with this other Temple President who was able to allow you to do what helps you to connect with Jesus Christ and pray to him.

That is my plan too, to reach out to my Temple President, after searching for answers online and coming across comments like that, and from reading your post. 

I am currently an ordinance worker, and I love my post. I also appreciate the gift of being able to converse with the Lord with pen and paper back and forth. It has long been the way that helps my mind to focus and be stilled. 

May the Lord bless us all on our journey back home! In Jesus name, amen.

[zil2]

 

 

@SharonJ

[Traveler]

One thought about this.  It has been my personal experience that there are spiritual things that one can experience, especially in the temples consecrated to G-d, that cannot be written.  There is also a reference in scripture 3Nephi where the resurrected Jesus blessed children that could not be written or even expressed to others.

 

The Traveler

[Carborendum]

On 8/26/2024 at 2:14 PM, Traveler said:

One thought about this.  It has been my personal experience that there are spiritual things that one can experience, especially in the temples consecrated to G-d, that cannot be written.  There is also a reference in scripture 3Nephi where the resurrected Jesus blessed children that could not be written or even expressed to others.

I believe there are some things that should be written and some things that should not.  Some that can be written and some that cannot.

The same can be said of spoken words.

Then there are things that cannot be spoken because there simply aren't words in man's language to describe them.

I've noticed that my special mental gift is the ability to cross-reference things in special ways that are lost on others.  Sometimes it is gibberish.  Other times it is meaningful.  And every once in a while, it is meaningful to me, but it is gibberish to anyone else.  That is to say: I fully understand it, but when I try to explain it to people, they give me this look like: "I have no idea what the heck you just said."

Sometimes we should write our thoughts down.  Other times we should just be grateful that we've received knowledge from on high and let it be.

[SharonJ]

An update for those who are asking the same question as the original poster:

I reached out to my Temple President and asked him about whether it would be okay for me to write down impressions I receive while I am in the Temple. He told me that they had recently sought the Lord about this topic, and they had decided that there is nothing wrong with a patron recording impressions with paper and pen/pencil while sitting in the celestial room or in any of the waiting areas within or without the temple.

He said that it would not be wise to write notes in the middle of an ordinance, such as the endowment, initiatory, etc., but during any other time, including the celestial room, it would be acceptable. 

I also want to share, that just a few weeks before I asked the Temple President this question, one of my fellow temple workers came up to me while I was in the celestial room and politely suggested that I should not write while in the celestial room. This was why I decided to look up the answer to this question on the internet in the first place, and how I found this chat. 

So you can see that while it is probably quite common for patrons to be discouraged from writing in the celestial room due to various factors, that does not mean that this rule is written in stone, and that you cannot ask your Temple President.

This was my experience when I reached out to my Temple President. I am very blessed and happy that this has been my experience.

The original poster shared a similar story in how she was prompted to ask her Temple President at the right time. I decided to ask my Temple President because of her story.

I think that this is a testimony that if you have a question like this, you can and should indeed ask your Temple President, and they should be able to give you the answer that you are seeking. 

I hope that no one leaves the Temple feeling that they are broken just because they have a question, or because they are not like the majority of patrons. Ask with faith, and see what happens. Keep asking. The Lord will bless you in your seeking and in your journey.

You are all loved by your Father in Heaven, whatever your heart may believe or think about this topic. We are all seeking our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ, and they love us so deeply, and they want us all to arrive safely home.

I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Sincerely, Sister Sharon Tveten

 

Edited September 25, 2024 by SharonJ
More thoughts to add

[Traveler]

On 9/16/2024 at 10:41 AM, Carborendum said:

I believe there are some things that should be written and some things that should not.  Some that can be written and some that cannot.

The same can be said of spoken words.

Then there are things that cannot be spoken because there simply aren't words in man's language to describe them.

I've noticed that my special mental gift is the ability to cross-reference things in special ways that are lost on others.  Sometimes it is gibberish.  Other times it is meaningful.  And every once in a while, it is meaningful to me, but it is gibberish to anyone else.  That is to say: I fully understand it, but when I try to explain it to people, they give me this look like: "I have no idea what the heck you just said."

Sometimes we should write our thoughts down.  Other times we should just be grateful that we've received knowledge from on high and let it be.

Some things can only be expressed or understood by the spirit.  In 3Nephi when Jesus blessed the children is one such example.  There are “things” given (or experienced) in the temple that cannot be obtained (expressed, written, spoken or understood) by any other means.

 

The Traveler