Trying to save my Marriage

[Mcmkk]

I've been married for 2 years. I'm relatively young. I have a baby girl that's really young. During my wife's pregnancy I Began to masturbate and shortly after our baby came I began to look at pornography for 2 months. For about 2 months I hid this but I felt absolutely miserable. It was just so hard to come forward because this was supposed to be the happiest time of my life. I came forward on my own and confessed everything. I told my wife. She was devastated. I have a gorgeous wife and she is such a wonderful person. It's been 6 weeks  now since I told her and she is starting to heal a bit and let this go but she swears she can never look at me the same. I have had no issues or even bad thoughts since j came forward. I am completely committed to a permanent Change. I won't make this mistake again. I have seen what it has done to my family. My whole motivation was that I wanted to be with my wife and child for eternity. My wife says she can never look at me the same and doesn't want to be with me anymore. She says she still loves me but just can't be with me. She still says she'll try and that she is trying but it isn't changing her feelings about leaving me. I'm on my knees daily. I'm in the scripture and we are reading and praying together as a family each day and attending church and fulfilling our callings. I feel that I should keep trying to show her I love her and it is helping. But it's so hard hearing from her every day that she doesn't want to be with me. I don't know if this is normal for her to feel. I don't want a divorce. I want to change myself and be what I need to be to be a great husband and father. What do I do? Are her feelings normal? Is divorce something reasonable for the things I have done? It's hard for me because I know the atonement can heal this but I don't know if she wants that. I just want to repent and change and be with them for eternity. I love her so much and I'm so angry at myself for doing this. I got way off track spiritually in my life for a while because of some very difficult issues with my family and it really hurt my testimony. That's how this all got started. What advice do you have for me and are her feelings normal?

[james12]

On a very intimate level you have destroyed the trust between you and your wife. So yes it is normal for your wife to not want to share such intimacy until some level of trust has returned. Trust is built up over time. There are no short cuts around it. You are going to have to continue showing her you love her by staying away from your vices and showing her you care for her, day in and day out. If this is an eternal marriage than you need to look long term.

It is hard for a spouse to understand how they are supposed to feel when they find their loved one has viewed pornography. People in the church talk a lot about avoiding it like the plague but when the plague hits what is a family to do? The church in more recent years has started to offer more support for spouses of those addicted to pornography or other vices. I would suggest she take a look at this site: https://addictionrecovery.lds.org/spouses-and-families?lang=eng. She may find it useful to work through the 12 steps in the Spouse and Family Support Guide, and if your in Utah there is probably a support meeting she could attend. Wives need to learn how to heal, feel that they are not alone, and understand how to deal with this situation.

God speed to you both. Keep working on the marriage. Time heals even this wound if you have repented and thereafter remain pure.  

 

[Latter-Day Marriage]

The fact that you came forward on your own and feel the pain of remorse over what you did is a great start to your repentance.  It is normal for her to feel deeply hurt by what you did, but assuming there is nothing more to the story than what you have said this should not be the end of your marriage, and through the atonement your marriage can become better than it was before even. 

First thing I would say is you both need to go and counsel with your Bishop.  Porn usage and masturbation are not things that normally results in formal church discipline, but I think you both could use some guidance on the repentance and the forgiveness process.  If she won't go, go alone.

To save your marriage, you are going to have to show her that your heart has changed, and you are no longer the kind of man who would do that.  If you held anything back in your confession you need to tell her those things and come totally clean.  She needs to see how much your wrongs pain you and how deep your regret goes.  That regret needs to be of the same magnitude as her pain, you can't offer a a cup of regret for a bucket of hurt.  You need to stop, totally.  In many places the church runs a 12 step program for addiction recovery.  Go to it, even if right now you don't consider yourself addicted.  I'm sure it will be helpful and at the very least it will show your wife how serious you are about overcoming this.  I'm not sure if spouses are to attend the meetings as well, if they are encourage her to go. 

You are going to have to apologize to her over and over.  An  apology is like changing the dressing on a wound, you have to keep doing it until the wound is healed.  Don't complain about having to do that again and again.  And you must not re-open that wound by using porn or masturbating again, get rid of everything in your home, your office etc. that influences you in the wrong direction.  Give her all the passwords to your computer, phone etc. and tell her she is welcome to check them any time she wants to make sure you haven't relapsed.  Get software on your computer to block you from porn and let her be the one one to have the passwords to change the setup etc.

And you must find some way to make it up to her as best you can since you can't undo it.  Find more positive ways of dealing with the stresses that push you towards doing that.  Pray for your heart to change so that those things become repulsive to you, and pray for your wife to find the strength to forgive you.  Win her trust back, and become the kind of man she feels safe being intimate with.

There are couples who have come back from full blown adultery and made it to the point of having a very happy lasting marriage, so a happy future is possible for the both of you.  Sometimes a person who is hurt talks of divorce without really meaning it, it is just a way (not a good way) of expressing pain, or perhaps even trying to hurt you back a bit.  I think if she was serous about it she would have already done something to get a divorce started but don't brush it off all the same.  She is hurting, and you are the one that hurt her.  Either her pain ends with the two of you reconciling with each other, or it ends by her cutting the source of her pain out of her life.  Since the two of you have a child together, neither of you is ever going to be totally out of the life of the other as long as you both live, so divorce won't really end her pain totally but she might think it will.  If she can see you are doing all you can to make the first option possible she has reason to hope for a happier ending than divorce.

[zil]

@Mcmkk, I can't give you better advice than what's been given, but I can add two things:

1) I agree that you should both go visit the bishop for help in repenting and forgiving - hopefully your bishop can help you understand this process more deeply than previously.  It seems to me your wife needs Christ's help as much as you do, though she may or may not understand that (strong emotion blinds us).

2) For men, things are often compartmentalized (e.g. this sin has nothing to do with taking out the garbage).  For women, everything is connected (this isn't a conscious choice - the female brain just links everything together, it's the way we are).  Therefore, every good thing you do as a husband and father is related to overcoming and moving past this sin, and every "bad" thing you do is related to this sin.  Knowing that should help you to understand that one way to earn her trust back is by action, as well as words, in all areas of your lives.  For example, if you always leave your dishes at the table after a meal, and this annoys her, quit it and go rinse your dishes and put them in the dishwasher.  Of if she always has to remind you that the lawn needs mowing, figure out how to do it in a timely manner without her reminder, and let her know your schedule / plan so she can quit worrying over the lawn.  Obviously, these examples may not be applicable to your particular circumstance, but hopefully you get the idea.

Now, that said, over the long run, you cannot do these things contrary to your will and desires and have a positive result (if you hate doing them, eventually you'll stop, or start to resent doing them and that will lead to bad things).  So, start with ones that are easier, and if (for example) you detest mowing the lawn and that's why you don't do it until she brings it up, you're going to have to find a way to change your own heart so that you can be the kind of person who takes satisfaction in getting this done.  The only way I know to change one's heart is constant prayer and willingly doing our best in the meantime.

And, that said, I'm not suggesting you "run faster than you're able to" (so to speak), but I'm telling you that seemingly unrelated changes are not unrelated in her mind, so improvement in any area equates to improvement in all areas.

[Jane_Doe]

(Warning: blunt reply below)

Dude, you CHEATED on your wife.  It's not something she's going to "get over", especially overnight.  Can she/you/your marriage be healed and find forgiveness?  Yes!  But it is going to take TIME and GOD.  And you can't rush either of those.  But with your confession, you are well on your way down that road- you post indicates that you know/feel this already.  It's a good thing, it just takes time.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

11 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

(Warning: blunt reply below)

Dude, you CHEATED on your wife.  It's not something she's going to "get over", especially overnight.  Can she/you/your marriage be healed and find forgiveness?  Yes!  But it is going to take TIME and GOD.  And you can't rush either of those.  But with your confession, you are well on your way down that road- you post indicates that you know/feel this already.  It's a good thing, it just takes time.

What he did was wrong, but you can't fully equate it with adultery.  Commit adultery and you are going to wind up facing formal church discipline, up to and including possible excommunication.  Not so for viewing porn.

[Jane_Doe]

7 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

What he did was wrong, but you can't fully equate it with adultery.  Commit adultery and you are going to wind up facing formal church discipline, up to and including possible excommunication.  Not so for viewing porn.

It's not full blown adultery, but it is cheating.

[estradling75]

7 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

What he did was wrong, but you can't fully equate it with adultery.  Commit adultery and you are going to wind up facing formal church discipline, up to and including possible excommunication.  Not so for viewing porn.

She was talking about how the wife (or how most wives would) sees it... Not how the church courts would see it.

Since the discussion is focused on the wife's response that is what the OP needs to be prepared for.

Now we can (and have) blow a lot of hot air around about not the same thing but at the end of the day the OP needs to deal with what is... and what is is that his wife is badly hurt by his actions... hurts that the time to heal and recover from can be measured in months and years... not a few days or weeks.

 

 

 

[NeedleinA]

On 9/4/2016 at 9:08 PM, Mcmkk said:

1. I'm relatively young.  
2. She was devastated. She says she still loves me but just can't be with me. What do I do?
3. Are her feelings normal?
4. Is divorce something reasonable for the things I have done? 

I have not read the responses of others yet as I wanted to give you my thoughts without being influenced by other's comments right now. 

1. Yes, it sounds like you both are young. Young, new to marriage still and perhaps naive in many, many ways. 
2. I'm sorry she is devastated. This is a great lesson for you both.
3. Her feelings might be "normal", but I'm going to suggest they are not necessarily "right". 
4. No it is not, if it is the only factor. 

A couple of thoughts. Neither "self abuse" (masturbation) or the use of pornography are grounds for a Church disciplinary council. In fact without quoting it, Handbook 1 for Church leaders specifically says not to hold councils for this. Hum?? Not serious enough to hold disciplinary councils for, however bad enough to divorce your spouse over? Something doesn't add up?

Pornography is here. It is everywhere you turn. It is the Elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. I would wager that 99% of every member of the church has seen a pornographic image or two already. The Church realizes this fact too. There was a past time when the emphasis was on "how to avoid pornography", that is no longer the focus. The focus now is, "Now that you have seen it, what do you do about it". See the shift?

By not talking about the fact that it is everywhere and that it really isn't a question of "if", it is only a question of "when was the last time you saw it", we are doing a genuine disservice to those involved with it. Porn use manifests itself at varying levels: Stumbled on it, casual infrequent use, frequent and lastly addicted. Most men and women who view porn do not fall into the level of addiction. They could at some point, but most don't. 

If your wife is wanting a divorce over 2 months of porn viewing and masturbation, it is because she has a very "young/naive" understanding of the subject. If this is the sole/only reason for a divorce then she is over reacting in my opinion. 

A wise Bishop would most likely sit you both down, discuss that these issues are in fact a problem but not on the magnitude that your wife is experiencing. Both issues are not ideal, both issues drive away the spirit, both issues should be worked on and stopped, however, I can't picture any seasoned Bishop ever offering divorce as a solution to what you have described. 

You were wrong.  Wanting a divorce is wrong in my opinion as well. She is hurt and over reacting.  

 

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by NeedleinA

[Latter-Day Marriage]

2 hours ago, estradling75 said:

She was talking about how the wife (or how most wives would) sees it... Not how the church courts would see it.

In a lot of people's minds cheating means adultery and I just wanted to make a distinction between the two. 

[Mcmkk]

 I'm honestly doing my very best to be here for her. Sometimes we have good times still. I'm helping around the house and taking care of our child so she can sleep and take naps. I'm bring home flowers and leaving notes around the house. I'm trying to win her back but my efforts aren't getting anywhere. I have been argumentative from time to time but if we get in a small squabble it turns into a knock down blow out fight. It's like every ounce of love or care for me is gone. She has wanted to leave me since the second I told her. I just don't know what to do. It seems like an impossible uphill battle. It makes me question whether I'm doing the right thing and whether we will work out. 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Mcmkk

[Latter-Day Marriage]

6 hours ago, Mcmkk said:

 I'm honestly doing my very best to be here for her. Sometimes we have good times still. I'm helping around the house and taking care of our child so she can sleep and take naps. I'm bring home flowers and leaving notes around the house. I'm trying to win her back but my efforts aren't getting anywhere. I have been argumentative from time to time but if we get in a small squabble it turns into a knock down blow out fight. It's like every ounce of love or care for me is gone. It's hard because I've heard of other men coming forward and even being caught and their spouses forgive them and support them and love them despite their mistakes (and I know this is a huge mistake). She has wanted to leave me since the second I told her. The only reason she has stayed is our child.  She says that she won't "be like all the other stupid women" who support their husbands through this and she's not the type of girl to be ok with this and She deserves someone better. She doesn't want to be with the type of man that I am. She says that on the topic of infidelity it is her choice whether she gets to stay with me or not. I just don't know what to do. It seems like an impossible uphill battle. It makes me question whether I'm doing the right thing and whether we will work out. 

That is just wrong.  God requires us to forgive, and this does not justify her breaking her marriage covenants with God and you, not by a long shot.  She needs to hear that from your Bishop however, not from you.  You have lost your moral authority to say such things to her for the time being.  Keep repenting and loving her and pray that God will soften her heart.

Divorcing you would be morally wrong and she will regret it some day if she does.  You can't be that unforgiving and hard-hearted and have a good marriage with anybody.  The person you love most will always the person that hurts you the deepest.

[NeedleinA]

1 hour ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

She needs to hear that from your Bishop however, not from you. 

Agreed. This is key.

[zil]

7 hours ago, Mcmkk said:

She has wanted to leave me since the second I told her. The only reason she has stayed is our child.  She says that she won't "be like all the other stupid women" who support their husbands through this and she's not the type of girl to be ok with this and She deserves someone better. She doesn't want to be with the type of man that I am. She says that on the topic of infidelity it is her choice whether she gets to stay with me or not. I just don't know what to do. It seems like an impossible uphill battle. It makes me question whether I'm doing the right thing and whether we will work out. 

Not do be tridundant or anything, but she really needs to talk with the bishop.  The two of you together also need to talk with the bishop.  Go yourself and get things started if she won't go with you.

[estradling75]

9 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

In a lot of people's minds cheating means adultery and I just wanted to make a distinction between the two. 

And that is a good distinction to make...  But since the OP's wife is not making it... it doesn't really help him understand how and why his wife is reacting the why she is...  His wife is acting as if he when out and committed adultery and that he how he needs to understand her reactions.

 

And as has been pointed out she does need to hear and understand the distinction but she is not here to hear it...  The only one of the two here is the OP and as been noted he lost any kind of moral authority he had...  It does him no real good to know that because his wife will more than like disregard anything he might say now on the subject.

Which is why the last several posters have encouraged the OP and is wife to go to the Bishop.   Because the Bishop is (or should be) an trusted third party with the keys/authority to speak on behalf of the church/Lord in this matter.  Hopefully he can bring the wife around, but that is really up to her.  Either way he can help the OP.

[Mcmkk]

We have both gone to the bishop and she has expressed her concerns and he told her that it was up to her what to do and he couldn't advise her to leave me or to stay with me. I was kind of shocked he said that.  He said the fight would be worth it if she was willing to fight and agreed with her that staying with me is a risk. He really didn't tell her what to do. That made her feel like it is ok to leave me. He also said that she gets to decide when I get my temple recommend back which I thought was strange. I don't know how long it should be before I get to go back but she says I'm nowhere near ready for that and I feel that temple attendance is the most important thing we could be doing to save our marriage and it's been 6 weeks that I have been clean. Shouldn't the bishop decide this and not my wife? 

[zil]

11 minutes ago, Mcmkk said:

he told her that it was up to her what to do and he couldn't advise her to leave me or to stay with me

This is consistent with what I know.

6 weeks of going without the Sacrament and temple attendance does not seem unusual to me, given what you've described - it may or may not be enough.

The rest seems odd to me, but the older I get, the more I realize I'm clueless about what the priesthood do.  You would think he would be helping you through the repentance process, and helping her to forgive.  Perhaps you should ask him about that.  Even in a situation like this, where no material goods were involved, restoration still needs to take place.  Coming to understand what was lost / taken / damaged and how to restore it is a significant part of repentance (and in this case, both you and your wife lost things, and it's not just her trust - there's your virtue, and other things you will have to identify with the help of the spirit).

There's also the fact that not all bishops are the same...  Prayer and obedience are the only other things I can suggest.

[NeedleinA]

16 minutes ago, Mcmkk said:

He said the fight would be worth it if she was willing to fight

Great.
How bad do you want to save your marriage? Would you go broke to do it?

[Mcmkk]

5 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Great.
How bad do you want to save your marriage? Would you go broke to do it?

I would do anything. I love her so much. 

[omegaseamaster75]

I haven't read the other responses so here is my 2 cents.

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 7:08 PM, Mcmkk said:

. But it's so hard hearing from her every day that she doesn't want to be with me. I don't know if this is normal for her to feel. I don't want a divorce. I want to change myself and be what I need to be to be a great husband and father. What do I do? Are her feelings normal?

Yes her feelings are normal, women tend to take this very hard.

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 7:08 PM, Mcmkk said:

 Is divorce something reasonable for the things I have done?

Divorce should not be an option.  Yeah technically you cheated on her with yourself, it sounds so silly that it is hard to type but that is what happened. Admit it now so you can move past it.

 

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 7:08 PM, Mcmkk said:

 What advice do you have for me and are her feelings normal?

Go to a MFT and have a conversation about this. She is over reacting (don't say that to her) but you both need to learn to communicate better and discuss difficult issues.

[NeedleinA]

3 minutes ago, Mcmkk said:

I would do anything. I love her so much. 

Great. If I were you I would use all the resources that were available to me. Your Bishop is a great resource. Another resource is visiting a LDS Family/Marriage Counselor, assuming you live in an area that has access to one. Pay for some sessions with one. Pay for some sessions for her and the Counselor alone. Pay for some by yourself with the Counselor and then pay for some together. Bishops primary role is the deal with the spiritual. Enlist the help of another specialist, a professional LDS Marriage Counselor.

This service costs money. If you are willing to go broke to save your marriage, then paying a couple thousand dollars should be nothing. In our area it costs $90 session (hour long). 5 sessions each and 5 sessions together = 15 total = $1,500.00. You could go more or you could go less. Bishop's rely on these services. This is not a substitute to the Bishop, it is a "supplement" to it.

$1,500 to get some professional help to save your marriage is peanuts.

[omegaseamaster75]

35 minutes ago, Mcmkk said:

We have both gone to the bishop and she has expressed her concerns and he told her that it was up to her what to do and he couldn't advise her to leave me or to stay with me. I was kind of shocked he said that.  He said the fight would be worth it if she was willing to fight and agreed with her that staying with me is a risk.

Sounds about right, and her staying with any guy is a risk she needs to open up her eyes to the realities that surround us.

36 minutes ago, Mcmkk said:

. He also said that she gets to decide when I get my temple recommend back.  Shouldn't the bishop decide this and not my wife? 

This is not right IMHO, the Bishop is the Judge in Israel not your wife. Did he take your recommend? did he say you cannot partake of the sacrament?

No one else has said it so I will say it again go see a MFT.

[Just_A_Guy]

37 minutes ago, Mcmkk said:

 Shouldn't the bishop decide this and not my wife? 

He may be trying to help your wife feel more empowered in the marriage; and if she keeps trying to punish you indefinitely then at some point I suspect the bishop will take a different tack.

In the interim--I agree with others that while your wife's reaction seems particularly punitive, you unfortunately don't have any right to tell her that.  But you also need to bear in mind that no matter how many bishops and therapists you see:  at the end of the day either she wants to forgive you (even if she can't bring herself to do it yet)--or she doesn't.  If she doesn't, your marriage's ability to recover from this will be severely stunted.

[omegaseamaster75]

12 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Pornography is here. It is everywhere you turn. It is the Elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. I would wager that 99% of every member of the church has seen a pornographic image or two already. The Church realizes this fact too. There was a past time when the emphasis was on "how to avoid pornography", that is no longer the focus. The focus now is, "Now that you have seen it, what do you do about it". See the shift?

This, FYI guys your bishop has seen pornography, so has your stake president...etc etc. at some point in their lives.

For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever......

Look at the guy sitting next to you at church this Sunday, your looking at a guy who has self abused at some point in his life.

unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord

How well have you kept the natural man at bay? It is all varying degrees, and part of our process here is to learn to control the natural man and make him subject to the promptings of the spirit so that he/we may fully participate in the Atonement of Christ.

I have seen the word addiction thrown around already. This is upsetting to me. We are so quick to use that word.  The OP does not have an addiction, it's like saying one cigarette will make you an addict or one drink makes you an alcoholic. It does not. Yes it is better to avoid these item all together but you (OP) are not an addict.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

34 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

This, FYI guys your bishop has seen pornography, so has your stake president...etc etc. at some point in their lives.

For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever......

Look at the guy sitting next to you at church this Sunday, your looking at a guy who has self abused at some point in his life.

unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord

How well have you kept the natural man at bay? It is all varying degrees, and part of our process here is to learn to control the natural man and make him subject to the promptings of the spirit so that he/we may fully participate in the Atonement of Christ.

I have seen the word addiction thrown around already. This is upsetting to me. We are so quick to use that word.  The OP does not have an addiction, it's like saying one cigarette will make you an addict or one drink makes you an alcoholic. It does not. Yes it is better to avoid these item all together but you (OP) are not an addict.

Yes, but there is a difference between stumbling across something and going to seek it out as a matter of habit.