An Odd Situation

[Guest]

SITUATION:

You're helping a family move.  They are an active LDS family that is well known and respected in the ward.

As you go about picking up stuff and putting them in boxes, you get to the master closet.  You find a case of spirits, a case of beer, and a small box of a certain magazine that shall remain nameless.

What would you do?  Has that ever happened to anyone else on this forum?

[zil]

I think I might pray on the spot for guidance.  I think if I was close enough to them, I might pull the spouse of my gender (or the couple) aside and privately point out that I know about this and ask what's up, because I care about them and their progress in life.  I might do that even if I didn't know them well.  I might carry one box at a time to the nearest drain or trash can and put them where they belong (esp. the porn, since no one on earth can be excused for using that; the alcohol, if they were keeping it for a friend, could be excused).  If I wanted to create a scene, I might pick one and carry it out to where everyone else is and say, "Hey, what should I do with the booze and porn?"

I might feel compelled to inform the bishop so that he can either speak to the couple or their future bishop - since, if these are theirs*, we have worthiness issues the bishop needs to know about.

*I think I could understand holding onto alcohol for a non-member friend / family-member.  I cannot understand anyone agreeing to do that with porn.

[Jamie123]

1 hour ago, zil said:

I think I might pray on the spot for guidance.  I think if I was close enough to them, I might pull the spouse of my gender (or the couple) aside and privately point out that I know about this and ask what's up, because I care about them and their progress in life.  I might do that even if I didn't know them well.  I might carry one box at a time to the nearest drain or trash can and put them where they belong (esp. the porn, since no one on earth can be excused for using that; the alcohol, if they were keeping it for a friend, could be excused).  If I wanted to create a scene, I might pick one and carry it out to where everyone else is and say, "Hey, what should I do with the booze and porn?"

I might feel compelled to inform the bishop so that he can either speak to the couple or their future bishop - since, if these are theirs*, we have worthiness issues the bishop needs to know about.

*I think I could understand holding onto alcohol for a non-member friend / family-member.  I cannot understand anyone agreeing to do that with porn.

You could of course ask them if they were aware of these items. It might seem unlikely that they didn't, but if they were aware that there was a stash of booze and porn in the house, wouldn't they have hidden them before you turned up? Also it's nice to think the best of people :)

[NeedleinA]

Never happened to me before. I agree with both @zil & @Jamie123
Zil: "Hey, what should I do with the booze and porn?"
Jamie: " wouldn't they have hidden them before you turned up?"

Who forgets they have a "stash" before the rest of the of the ward arrives to move you...duh??
Perhaps in the moving and shuffling, they discovered it in their teenage son's room and yanked it out but in the hustle haven't disposed of it yet??

Never going to know unless you ask... just speculation up to that point.

Good job providing service @Carborendum! We just moved a family last night too, but no secret stash to speak of.

Edited October 6, 2016 by NeedleinA

[zil]

Now, let's move on to the difficult questions:

1. You find that a floorboard is loose and spy something when you go to reset it.  When you remove the board, you discover a stash of gold coins which clearly predate the current occupants.  What do you do?
2. You pull the dresser out from the wall, and instead of dust bunnies, you discover a family of tiny little elf-like creatures cowering under their mini coffee table.  Is your faith shaken?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, zil said:

Now, let's move on to the difficult questions:

1. You find that a floorboard is loose and spy something when you go to reset it.  When you remove the board, you discover a stash of gold coins which clearly predate the current occupants.  What do you do?
2. You pull the dresser out from the wall, and instead of dust bunnies, you discover a family of tiny little elf-like creatures cowering under their mini coffee table.  Is your faith shaken?

1) Finders Keepers.

2) It depends on if they are going to grant me a wish or something.  If not, I'd squash them like the rodents they are.

[omegaseamaster75]

1 hour ago, zil said:

I think I might pray on the spot for guidance.  I think if I was close enough to them, I might pull the spouse of my gender (or the couple) aside and privately point out that I know about this and ask what's up, because I care about them and their progress in life.  I might do that even if I didn't know them well.  I might carry one box at a time to the nearest drain or trash can and put them where they belong (esp. the porn, since no one on earth can be excused for using that; the alcohol, if they were keeping it for a friend, could be excused).  If I wanted to create a scene, I might pick one and carry it out to where everyone else is and say, "Hey, what should I do with the booze and porn?"

It's none of your business, I'd put the items back or just load them in the truck. Were the boxes open?

1 hour ago, zil said:

I might feel compelled to inform the bishop so that he can either speak to the couple or their future bishop - since, if these are theirs*, we have worthiness issues the bishop needs to know about.

No one likes a snitch.

1 hour ago, zil said:

*I think I could understand holding onto alcohol for a non-member friend / family-member.  I cannot understand anyone agreeing to do that with porn.

Again none of your business, it's their business. What if you found a sex toy would you have the same pious attitude?

[NeuroTypical]

Folks, moving day can be a time when we don't see people at their best.  It can be a final hurrah to goals and dreams, even the breaking point of a marriage.  Folks need our Christlike love at stressful times like this, maybe more than other times.  

What I try to do when finding evidence of sin in someone else: Feel gratitude that my crap isn't out there for everyone to see.  Feel compassion towards the sinner.  Maybe feel empathy if I can relate.  Let that stuff shine in my decisions and my face. 

 

Scene 1: Home teaching the inactive angry guy, who is still ticked off at the crap they tried to teach him in Elders Quorum three years ago.  He has an opportunity to buy a bar, which will give him and his wife financial stability for the rest of their days.

Scene 2: Guy didn't buy the bar, got active, cleaned up his life, did a stint with his wife as temple workers.  One of the spiritual giants of the ward, although he doesn't believe it.

I dunno - you folks tell me - what behaviors from me and his other ward peers helped in getting him from scene 1 to scene 2?  

[omegaseamaster75]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Scene 1: Home teaching the inactive angry guy, who is still ticked off at the crap they tried to teach him in Elders Quorum three years ago.  He has an opportunity to buy a bar, which will give him and his wife financial stability for the rest of their days.

What's wrong with owning a bar? WHat did they say in EQ? I have heard some pretty wild things and not everyone takes it well.

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Scene 2: Guy didn't buy the bar, got active, cleaned up his life, did a stint with his wife as temple workers.  One of the spiritual giants of the ward, although he doesn't believe it.

Again the bar thing? do you think that if you own a bar you can't be a faithful member of the church?

[NeuroTypical]

Omega sort of pegged it.  Dood asked us about buying the bar and how it would impact his status as a mormon.  We told him he'd be absolutely welcome to come to church, and we'd both be perfectly happy to remain his home teachers.  And we told him the only people who could tell him what owning a bar would do to his desire to be a disciple of Christ, were him, his wife, and the Lord. 

And we never really went into what he had been told all those years ago.  We just acknowledged that people are imperfect and flawed, sometimes plain wrong, and if he was looking at church as a place where you find perfect people, he'd be looking for a while.

Basically, we didn't try to talk him out of pursuing a sinful career as a purveyor of alcohol.  We didn't talk to him about the evils of drink.  We didn't defend the sanctity of a church meeting as the place you go to learn the truth.  We didn't tell him if he bought the bar, he'd be moving in the wrong direction.  Basically, we didn't call him on any of the stuff he was doing that we felt was keeping him from progressing in the gospel. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by NeuroTypical

[NightSG]

2 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

You could of course ask them if they were aware of these items. It might seem unlikely that they didn't, but if they were aware that there was a stash of booze and porn in the house, wouldn't they have hidden them before you turned up? Also it's nice to think the best of people

You would think they would also know better than to back up the porn on their computer to a network drive I have admin access on, but...

[omegaseamaster75]

8 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Omega sort of pegged it.  Dood asked us about buying the bar and how it would impact his status as a mormon.  We told him he'd be absolutely welcome to come to church, and we'd both be perfectly happy to remain his home teachers.  And we told him the only people who could tell him what owning a bar would do to his desire to be a disciple of Christ, were him, his wife, and the Lord. 

This is IMHO the correct answer, it is between him a God. What if he ran a motel, were unwed couples had sex, or a hotel with a bar in the lobby. what if he was in sales for a beer distributor? or was the controler for a cigarette company? No ones business but his own.

13 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

And we never really went into what he had been told all those years ago.  We just acknowledged that people are imperfect and flawed, sometimes plain wrong, and if he was looking at church as a place where you find perfect people, he'd be looking for a while.

I might have asked but I wasn't there. He may have had some weird notion about our beliefs.  The fact that he let you in his home was a sign of non hostility.

14 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Basically, we didn't try to talk him out of pursuing a sinful career as a purveyor of alcohol.  We didn't talk to him about the evils of drink.  We didn't defend the sanctity of a church meeting as the place you go to learn the truth.  We didn't tell him if he bought the bar, he'd be moving in the wrong direction.  Basically, we didn't call him on any of the stuff he was doing that we felt was keeping him from progressing in the gospel. 

Do you think that you were derelict in your duty? do you think that you should have spoken up about the evils of alcohol and your thought's about the sinful career choice?

I would agree that not defending the church as a place to learns truths might have been a mistake but I wasn't there.

[NightSG]

1 hour ago, zil said:

1. You pull the dresser out from the wall, and instead of dust bunnies, you discover a family of tiny little elf-like creatures cowering under their mini coffee table.  Is your faith shaken?

Why?  What if the elves are Mormon?

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Folks, moving day can be a time when we don't see people at their best.  It can be a final hurrah to goals and dreams, even the breaking point of a marriage.  Folks need our Christlike love at stressful times like this, maybe more than other times.   

Amen. As someone who just moved this is the best advice anyone can give. If you had chosen to start lecturing in the middle of me moving because you found my Iron Maiden poster "demonic" , I'd never speak to you again (which I'm sure some would view as a blessing in itself). 

For all you know it could have been something an aunt/uncle gave them thirty years ago and they've basically forgotten about. You drop it, and you move on. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by MormonGator

[Maureen]

3 hours ago, zil said:

...(esp. the porn, since no one on earth can be excused for using that;...)

What about an Infertility Clinic? I would think it might come in handy for certain specimens.

M.

[Iggy]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

SITUATION:

You're helping a family move.  They are an active LDS family that is well known and respected in the ward.

As you go about picking up stuff and putting them in boxes, you get to the master closet.  You find a case of spirits, a case of beer, and a small box of a certain magazine that shall remain nameless.

What would you do?  Has that ever happened to anyone else on this forum?

Because Carborendum didn't say that as their Home Teacher he was helping this ACTIVE in the LDS Church family move then he does NOT have stewardship over this family. Haul the case of beer and magazines out to the truck and say AND do nothing more.

He could be storing the case of beer to use as trade goods in a SHTF situation, or to be used in the yard to kill slugs. As for the magazines, could have confiscated them from a young family member or friend and totally spaced it out that they were there. 

Why must *we* always assume the worst?

During the summer I generally have a six pack of the cheapest canned beer the store offers. Why? To kill slugs with. It is way less harmful to the environment, and if other animals drink the beer - it makes them drunk,and seldom kills them. As for the magazines -  I once bought a cheap storage chest full of books & magazines at a local used book sale that the High School was having. Included in with the magazines were about three years worth of Hustler. Bleh! I put them in a cardboard bankers box to put in the recyclables and totally forgot to do it. 8 years later when I moved to a different state there are those magazines. Finally tossed them into the burning barrel as we were loading the moving truck and burning paper that we couldn't shred. The LDS family that was helping me saw the top magazine then asked, Do you want the box to burn too ~ or just the trashy magazines?

To this day I wonder what went to the dump 8 year earlier in place of the magazines??

[NeuroTypical]

I'm reminded of my time as a boy scout.  I was all excited to help with the aluminum can drive - my dad saved cans and we had a ton to donate.  The troop loaded up into the scoutmaster's car and everyone came over to my house.  There they were - piles upon piles of empty beer cans.  Beer cans.

The enthusiasm immediately died. Everyone stopped talking.  Nobody would make eye contact with me.  For 15 excruciatingly awkward minutes, the other boys half-heartedly crushed a few cans, picking them up like a rotting dead fish, and filling a garbage bag.  Then the scout master said "I think we have enough", and we left the piles upon piles of remaining cans and left.  Nobody spoke in the car on the way back, except maybe a comment or two about how the cans smelled gross.  I learned inappropriate shame and undeserved guilt on that day.  I started internalizing lies about how neither I nor my family was good enough to be accepted by the good people of the world.  I stopped going to scouts shortly after, and I went inactive as soon as I could get away with it.  I didn't belong, they had made that clear.   My dad swore a lot that night - and kept swearing at mormons for the rest of his life. 

So yeah, my gut response to the OP question, is 'for the love of pete don't treat anyone like I got treated'.  It took a long time to get over the sting of judgment and rejection from my LDS peers, and pull the plug on the lies I had been believing about myself.  

Edited October 6, 2016 by NeuroTypical

[NeedleinA]

8 minutes ago, Maureen said:

What about an Infertility Clinic? I would think it might come in handy for certain specimens.

M.

Take your wife with you to the clinic instead.
Not married? Close your eyes and think really hard.
Just a guy making money at the ol' clinic... find a different way to make money, like donate plasma

[Guest MormonGator]

11 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm reminded of my time as a boy scout.  I was all excited to help with the aluminum can drive - my dad saved cans and we had a ton to donate.  The troop loaded up into the scoutmaster's car and everyone came over to my house.  There they were - piles upon piles of empty beer cans. 

The enthusiasm immediately died. Everyone stopped talking.  Nobody would make eye contact with me.  For 15 excruciatingly awkward minutes, the other boys half-heartedly crushed a few cans, picking them up like a rotting dead fish, and filling a garbage bag.  Then the scout master said "I think we have enough", and we left the piles upon piles of remaining cans and left.  Nobody spoke in the car on the way back, except maybe a comment or two about how the cans smelled gross.  I learned inappropriate shame and undeserved guilt on that day.  I started internalizing lies about how neither I nor my family was good enough to be accepted by the good people of the world.  I stopped going to scouts shortly after, and I went inactive as soon as I could get away with it.  I didn't belong, they had made that clear. 

So yeah, my gut response to the OP question, is 'for the love of pete don't treat anyone like I got treated'.  It took a long time to get over the sting of judgment and rejection from my LDS peers, and pull the plug on the lies I had been believing about myself.  

 
Sorry that happened to you NT. I was never a scout so I can't relate. Very sad 

[zil]

39 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Why?  What if the elves are Mormon?

Suddenly the teeny chair in the corner by the last pew makes so much more sense!

[NightSG]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

I learned inappropriate shame and undeserved guilt on that day.  I started internalizing lies about how neither I nor my family was good enough to be accepted by the good people of the world.  I stopped going to scouts shortly after, and I went inactive as soon as I could get away with it.  I didn't belong, they had made that clear.

You should see the looks I get for being the only member in an otherwise mostly Methodist family.  People tell me that rather than complaining about the building never being unlocked in time for GC sessions, I should just go watch with my family, then when I point out my family doesn't watch GC, the looks turn to "why are you even here, then?"

[unixknight]

I'm in the "mind your own business" crowd. 

And don't gossip about it either. 

[anatess2]

Well... I have a bottle of Fireball Whiskey and maybe some other alcoholic thing in my pantry with the instant coffee.  The whiskey was a Christmas gift from my cousin, the coffee is my mother's.

If I'm in that situation I'd just move it with the rest.  But I can definitely see my husband seeing the "contraband", laugh his bum off and tell the guy, I'm taking pictures in case I need to blackmail you for money.... 

[Maureen]

There could be numerous explanations. Maybe they cook with alcohol, maybe that bedroom is a guest's room. You could ask:

1. Why weren't things boxed up before we got here? or

2. Why do you have alcohol and racey magazines in your closet? or

3. Don't say a thing and let it roll off your back.

M.

[Palerider]

10 hours ago, Carborendum said:

SITUATION:

You're helping a family move.  They are an active LDS family that is well known and respected in the ward.

As you go about picking up stuff and putting them in boxes, you get to the master closet.  You find a case of spirits, a case of beer, and a small box of a certain magazine that shall remain nameless.

What would you do?  Has that ever happened to anyone else on this forum?

I never had that experience.....what I have had happen is while at Scout Camp all week with young men .....they tell stories about their families and sometimes I would wonder how their Parents would feel if they knew what I was hearing.