.

[Mikee2735]

..

Edited February 17, 2017 by Mikee2735

[Guest]

Get rid of all but one cat.  Get rid of all but one dog.  Reduce the number of farm animals you have.  Get rid of any horses you have.  All animals shall be outdoor animals only.  Then try to figure out how to do it all on your own.

After one month, take a long hard look at your life, your wife, and your home.  Pray as you ask,"Am I willing to do this for the rest of my life?"

Edited February 13, 2017 by Guest

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I understand that the house cleaning is an issue, but really what concerns me more is your attitude about your wife...calling someone you allegedly love "lazy and a slob" and all the other cruel things you just said . . . well, I wonder about the future of such a marriage.

She might be lazy, but there could be other factors (like depression) or simply ignorance...what kind of a housekeeper is her mom?  Maybe she was never taught to keep house.  It's more than just learning what to do, but establishing good habits as well.

At any rate, insults, criticism and shaming are the least effective ways to motivate someone to change.  Have you considered marriage counseling?  I think you should because you BOTH have some issues to work on and I doubt you can resolve them without a little bit of outside help.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Schedule marriage counseling right now.

From the sound of this post, you two have major issues beyond the issue of house cleaning, such as respecting each other and sharing similar goals.  Yes, I know that counseling is expensive, but are you really ok with continuing this status quo indefinitely?  

[Guest]

I agree with what the other have said above. After rereading your post I counted at least ten insults towards your wife  and only one loving statement. I would never imagine a man loving his wife with all his heart yet insults her over and over again. That shows that you also have a problem that needs to be worked on. I am not excusing your wife's cleaning skills or lack thereof. But I do think you both have problems that need to be worked on and counseling is a good place to start.

[Guest]

I also have a hard time believing you dated for two years and never saw her dirty dishes or caked on dust. That's a pretty hard thing to hide when your dating someone for two years. 

[Jane_Doe]

32 minutes ago, miav said:

I also have a hard time believing you dated for two years and never saw her dirty dishes or caked on dust. That's a pretty hard thing to hide when your dating someone for two years. 

Regardless, they are now married and need to figure things out.  

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Regardless, they are now married and need to figure things out.  

Yup. 

I'm with @LiterateParakeet. What gravely concerns me is how you speak about your wife. Frankly, if I were her I wouldn't do a lot of housework either.

Might be time to look inward.

[anatess2]

Okay, I get this post.

But, before I try to help you with some practical advice let me just get one thing out of the way first... if I understand you correctly, you were married before and got divorced?  So, the first thing you need to learn is - Love does not have conditions.  Marriage does not have conditions.  I can't Love her anymore because she can't clean... that's not Love.  This is the thing - we choose very carefully who we take into a marriage because it alleviates marital problems.  So, basically, when you're still dating, you're looking for things you can't live with.  Once you decide to make that marital covenant though, you decided you'll live with everything known or unknown about your spouse.

So, because you made that covenant already, we're going to have to figure out how you can live with your wife's lack of homemaking skills.  Another important thing to remember - you can't control what your wife does or doesn't do.  You can only control how you react to it.  This is important to remember because 2 people who grew up in 2 different homes have 2 different ideas of how to run a home.  It will take a lot of working things out to eventually build your own home.

The first thing for you to do is to sit down with your wife and talk about your frustrations IN A LOVING MANNER.  The way you expressed it to us here is understandable because you're venting a frustration long suffered.  When you sit down your wife, this is not the time to vent frustrations.  Rather, this is the time to present a problem and try to work out a solution.  You can't get to a solution if your wife feels you're ragging on her.  You can't get to a solution if you start calling her lazy and a slob.  She'll just shut down and feel terrible about herself which will make the solution much harder to get to.  So, tell her you love her very much and that you desperately need her help.

Next, once she understands you need for her to help you solve the problem, your next step is to TEACH HER how to solve the problem.  Cleanliness is not something you just wake up one day and know what to do.  Cleanliness is about HABITS.  Habits develop over time.  Habits develop over small tasks mastered and moving on to bigger tasks.  It's just like how you would teach a child to clean.  You don't just point to the dusters and tell the child to go clean.  You have to first assign her the small task, show her how it's done, then leave her to get the task done with gentle reminders or proddings along the way.  Then she can move on to bigger tasks.  Task lists are cool stuff for this.  You give her a list of stuff you want her to do and at the same time show her the list of stuff you're gonna do, teach her how to do them, then trust her to do it.  If she succeeds, praise praise praise.  If she fails, no big deal, try again the next day with a gentle reminder.   You'll need to have to loosen your standards to meet her in the middle.  Nobody dies when dishes get left in the sink.  Remind her it still needs to get done by asking her if she needs you to help and you can do them together.  Disposable paper plates are great invention.  Don't worry about your guests.  Your wife is more important than any one of them.  They can walk into a mess of a home and it would be LOADS better than walking into a broken marriage.

In any and all cases, LOVE conquers all things.  Love is patient.  Love is kind.  Love uplifts a person, not diminishes the person.  Go love your wife.

Edited February 13, 2017 by anatess2

[yjacket]

Welcome to the new age brother.

This is just the culmination of decades and decades of feminism. Once upon a time in a not too distant past there was such a thing as a housewife; as a general rule of thumb the husband was expected to work outside the home and bring in money so the family could survive and the wife was expected to manage the affairs of the household. That's why girls were taught Home Ec. in High School. Now this isn't to say that the roles never crossed boundaries or that husband and wife weren't to help each other out (in fact they were expected to help each other out)-however they had distinct roles and responsibilities. Being responsible for something is different than doing it yourself-being responsible means you take ownership of it and ensures that it gets done-either by yourself or by someone else (i.e. husband or children).

But you see, all that housework was just simply too "demeaning to women"-never mind the fact that someone must do it and someone must be the responsible party to ensure it gets done. And this is what happens when an individual doesn't take ownership or responsibility over something-it doesn't get done. And quite frankly, breaking the responsibility to ensure the household is well put together to two individuals doesn't work quite well-I'm sure there are exceptions but as a general rule it doesn't work. What do you break it into, I'll take the upstairs you take the downstairs?? No, it works well when one single individual has the entire responsibility and then delegates to others to get it done.

Quite frankly, this is where we have failed as a society to teach the next generation. We teach that in marriage "all you need is love" . . .well sort-of, it's about Christ-like love which the older I've gotten I've realized has many more facets than just what is thought of as in "I love you know matter what you do".  Marriage is about working together to accomplish something greater than the individual could accomplish on their own-a helpmeet for each other. We haven't taught the rising generation what are appropriate roles wives and husbands should play and as such kids grow up thinking I just need love or someone I'm attracted to or someone who is just spiritual-or pretty-or xyz.  

They then get married, find out each individual now has completely different expectations about what a functional marriage should look like in practice.  We teach the qualities one should look for in a mate, but we don't teach the roles that one should play as husband or as wife.

I would suggest the following, as head of household, sit down and have a conversation about what each of you believe the separate roles and responsibilities each of you should play as husband and wife.  This isn't dictatorial, but a conversation.  For example, she might say she believes she should do all the laundry and you all the dishes or whatever. Once you decide on appropriate responsibilities, then you have to let her completely manage it. One can never learn to be responsible if someone is micromanaging every decision. But if she doesn't know how to do it, then that is where training comes into play (and this might be the case as again we have failed to teach the rising generation....). And that is where the tough part comes into play-in marriage one must learn to allow your spouse the ability to do things the way they see fit-suggestions are fine and good-but ultimately let the other person flourish without criticizing.  

As a sidenote it is my belief that in general one individual should be wholly responsible for a specific task or groups of tasks (for children you rotate them).  The reason being is that specialization in a specific task breeds efficiency.  Could I go and get the groceries-sure I could-but b/c I'm not specialized in it, it is much faster, quicker, more efficient if my wife does it.  On occasion do I get something from the store if necessary or she needs it-sure I help out. My wife can specialize in getting groceries and I can specialize in fixing stuff around the house. In our respective roles and responsibilities we help each other out. I make her life easier by her not having to work, worry about mowing the grass, fixing cars, etc. And she makes my life easier by cooking, cleaning, taking care of the house. And as long as each one of us is pulling our own weight, with help from the other, life is blissful.

Life gets really rough when one party decides to slack off, or something happens where they cannot fulfill their role (job loss, health problems, etc.). But when it works well, life is awesome.

Edited February 13, 2017 by yjacket

[my two cents]

Agree with the above and will add:

As mentioned, there may be some level of depression going on.  It could also be that she doesn't like her job and/or it's very draining for her and doesn't have anything else to give.  It could be that she thinks you're a great cook or doesn't feel confident in the kitchen.  She could also be testing you to see how much you really love her and if you can ride it out, the test will end.  As right or wrong as the above may be, you need to try to see where she's coming from and realize that her 30% effort may be someone else's 80%. Stop the negative labels and remember why you married her.  

[omegaseamaster75]

1 hour ago, miav said:

I agree with what the other have said above. After rereading your post I counted at least ten insults towards your wife  and only one loving statement. I would never imagine a man loving his wife with all his heart yet insults her over and over again. That shows that you also have a problem that needs to be worked on. I am not excusing your wife's cleaning skills or lack thereof. But I do think you both have problems that need to be worked on and counseling is a good place to start.

I think there has been some build up to this.  I am sure he loves his wife and is just venting

[omegaseamaster75]

OP I didn't read all the posts and since your wife isn't on here to dish on what a great upstanding guy you are I'm going to give you a 50% discount on everything you posted.  

If I were you and I am not I would crack my wallet and go see  MFT ASAP.  There are some underlying issues there that need to be addressed, you will have to compromise and reach a middle ground.  It sounds like you both work so there should be a split in duties. It should not be one sided.

Immediate fix.....stop enabling her.  

 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I am sure he loves his wife and is just venting

You can vent without insulting.

Let's say we give him a 50 % discount. 5 to 1 is still not a good ratio.

 

 

[NeuroTypical]

Here's some cheap but relevant facebook wisdom for you:
- Go into marriage with eyes wide open, be married with eyes half closed.
- Your wife will act like the person one level lower than you tell her she is/treat her like she is.  Go read everything you told us about her, and think about that.  

The way you're talking, you didn't marry a wife, you just married your next ex-wife.  Unless you can change yourself, learn something about stewardship, learn something about influence vs concern - I'm thinking she's gonna dump you pretty darn quick, or make your life such that you'll initiate the dumping.  

[Guest]

Sounds like a tough situation, and frustrating to boot. 

You both work, so you should both share the housekeeping. Have you had a family counsel about this, and discussed who should be responsible for what? Don't do it when feelings are high. Have a scheduled meeting at a calm time. State your case with love. Let her know it's not fair and you're not happy, and that you want to come to an agreement that will provide a more peaceful home and relationship.

I also echo that you should look hard at how you speak of and think of your wife. I learned early on that trash-talking a spouse is the worst for you, because it amplifies bad feelings and creates new ones. 

Last of all, I recommend my new favorite book, Leadership and Self-Deception. It sounds like a business book, and it is, but it has some really wonderful insights about what power we actually have to change our relationships at home and work.  

 

[Guest]

Just now, Eowyn said:

You both work, so you should both share the housekeeping.

 

My thoughts exactly.  If the house is a pigsty, the husband is partially to blame, especially if the wife is working.  Welcome to marriage and being an adult.

Edited February 13, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

My thoughts exactly.  If the house is a pigsty, the husband is partially to blame, especially if the wife is working.  Welcome to marriage and being an adult.

Yup. I do 99% of the housework in our house. 

It's 2017. A man really should help with the housework-and a woman should help with the non housework (working on cars, etc). 

Edited February 13, 2017 by MormonGator

[Guest]

A woman's divine role is to nurture. Because that generally happens in the home, and because the one who's home the most logically should see to the housekeeping, the woman is historically the housekeeper. The ones who is most available to keep house should do most of the housekeeping, and where there are children, they should absolutely share that responsibility (male and female). That doesn't mean it's the woman's role to be the housekeeper (unless she's the one that's home most often). Tradition says so... culture says so... but nothing else says so.

When there are no children, then what? If a couple chooses to have the traditional 1-income household with the woman home to tend the house, absolutely she should do it. If she works part time, he should pitch in. If they both work full-time, they share. That's just fair. 

[Backroads]

I pretty much agree with everything that has been posted.  

On cleaning: I am so much better than I used to be on keeping things neat and tidy, but I have a long way to go. Our house is never Better Homes and Gardens worthy. I would love to get to that point, but I'm not there yet. Husband and I both work, which sounds to be the situation you are in. Even so, I'm still considered "in charge" of the housekeeping as I am in the woman of the home. What does this look like? I do chores, I delegate tasks as I will to Husband (and thank heavens my daughers' babysitter is a neat freak, which helps her to like being tidy.) It's not the traditional woman-does-all-the-cleaning route, but I still consider myself the homemaker. So why doesn't our house always look picture perfect? We're just not neat-freak people nor were we raised by neat-freak parents. It's really hard totally spotless wasn't part of your upbringing!

So, try to get on the same team as your wife. The state of the house is clearly a problem for you, so figure out a way to do this. This might mean going through an intense training to learn how to be neat. Heck, this might mean budgeting for a cleaning service. 

[askandanswer]

It sounds like you have two incomes and only one dependent child. Where I come from, that would leave enough money left over to afford to hire a housekeeper/cook for a few hours a week. This approach would hide but not solve the problem. It might even be cheaper than counselling. And then you would both be faced with a clear choice - live in a tidy house and pay someone to keep it clean or keep the money and live in a tidier house. Sometimes it can help to have the issues clarified.

[omegaseamaster75]

7 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

It sounds like you have two incomes and only one dependent child. Where I come from, that would leave enough money left over to afford to hire a housekeeper/cook for a few hours a week. This approach would hide but not solve the problem. It might even be cheaper than counselling. And then you would both be faced with a clear choice - live in a tidy house and pay someone to keep it clean or keep the money and live in a tidier house. Sometimes it can help to have the issues clarified.

Good advice, hire a housekeeper, but for sure see a MFT or things will only get worse

[Mikee2735]

6 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Okay, I get this post.

But, before I try to help you with some practical advice let me just get one thing out of the way first... if I understand you correctly, you were married before and got divorced?  So, the first thing you need to learn is - Love does not have conditions.  Marriage does not have conditions.  I can't Love her anymore because she can't clean... that's not Love.  This is the thing - we choose very carefully who we take into a marriage because it alleviates marital problems.  So, basically, when you're still dating, you're looking for things you can't live with.  Once you decide to make that marital covenant though, you decided you'll live with everything known or unknown about your spouse.

So, because you made that covenant already, we're going to have to figure out how you can live with your wife's lack of homemaking skills.  Another important thing to remember - you can't control what your wife does or doesn't do.  You can only control how you react to it.  This is important to remember because 2 people who grew up in 2 different homes have 2 different ideas of how to run a home.  It will take a lot of working things out to eventually build your own home.

The first thing for you to do is to sit down with your wife and talk about your frustrations IN A LOVING MANNER.  The way you expressed it to us here is understandable because you're venting a frustration long suffered.  When you sit down your wife, this is not the time to vent frustrations.  Rather, this is the time to present a problem and try to work out a solution.  You can't get to a solution if your wife feels you're ragging on her.  You can't get to a solution if you start calling her lazy and a slob.  She'll just shut down and feel terrible about herself which will make the solution much harder to get to.  So, tell her you love her very much and that you desperately need her help.

Next, once she understands you need for her to help you solve the problem, your next step is to TEACH HER how to solve the problem.  Cleanliness is not something you just wake up one day and know what to do.  Cleanliness is about HABITS.  Habits develop over time.  Habits develop over small tasks mastered and moving on to bigger tasks.  It's just like how you would teach a child to clean.  You don't just point to the dusters and tell the child to go clean.  You have to first assign her the small task, show her how it's done, then leave her to get the task done with gentle reminders or proddings along the way.  Then she can move on to bigger tasks.  Task lists are cool stuff for this.  You give her a list of stuff you want her to do and at the same time show her the list of stuff you're gonna do, teach her how to do them, then trust her to do it.  If she succeeds, praise praise praise.  If she fails, no big deal, try again the next day with a gentle reminder.   You'll need to have to loosen your standards to meet her in the middle.  Nobody dies when dishes get left in the sink.  Remind her it still needs to get done by asking her if she needs you to help and you can do them together.  Disposable paper plates are great invention.  Don't worry about your guests.  Your wife is more important than any one of them.  They can walk into a mess of a home and it would be LOADS better than walking into a broken marriage.

In any and all cases, LOVE conquers all things.  Love is patient.  Love is kind.  Love uplifts a person, not diminishes the person.  Go love your wife.

 

[Mikee2735]

Man the harshness on this site is rediculious. I don't speak to her in the way my post reads. As someone commented I was only venting. I'm just frustrated with the situation. I've asked her if we should hire a weekly maid service to come in and help and she says no because it's her job to up keep the house. I'm not an angry person nor do I take any personal or professional issues out on her. I've tried to talk with her in a loving and respectful way but nothing changes. So for everyone that commented that I'm insulting and treating her badly, this is so far beyond the truth. That is why I was asking for advice from others members of he church. Not to be judged but to be guided by those who have either experienced the same thing or have waaay more Marriage Time under there belts.

[Guest]

So filter that out and consider the wealth of other advice. But also remember that as we think and speak, so we are... Even when we're just venting. Our thoughts and words have so much power.

Many of us have been married the better part of 20 years, or more, and learned these things the hard way. Be smart and learn from others' mistakes.