Reasons for Waiting to Have Children

[Fether]

Prophets are always telling us to have children and to do so in faith. Don't wait for college degrees, finances, a home etc. But then they throw in phrases like this

"When to have a child and how many children to have are private decisions to be made between a husband and wife and the Lord. These are sacred decisions--decisions that should be made with sincere prayer and acted on with great faith."

and then follow up with:

"Across the world, this is a time of economic instability and financial uncertainty. In April general conference, President Thomas S. Monson said: “If you are concerned about providing financially for a wife and family, may I assure you that there is no shame in a couple having to scrimp and save. It is generally during these challenging times that you will grow closer together as you learn to sacrifice and to make difficult decisions.”
Elder Kimball’s piercing question, “Where is your faith?” turns us to the holy scriptures."

I feel like I'm 9 again and telling my parents I don't want to go to church and they say "we will let you decide for yourself " and me knowing they will be dissappointed if I choose not to go... essentially leaving me guilted into church. 

With this in mind, I personally can't imagine going too long without having children. The idea of being married for more than a year with no child is completly resoculous to me.

but here is my question. What are the reason for not having a child? If there are none, Why are we asked to pray for when (I understand the "how many" part) when the prophets are pretty clear?

enlighten me

 

PS Just to avoid the discussion, I know it isn't only my decision, it's between me, my wife, and G-d.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Fether

[Guest MormonGator]

The reasons are up to you, your spouse, and God. Some of us wait till we are more mature and settled into our lives and careers. Some of us wait because we want to spend time with our spouse just enjoying the others time and company. 

In fairness to the prophets, they are all married men with children. Some religions have single men lecturing you about when to have children. Easy for them to say since they don't have to feed them, pay for them, or worry about them. Different with the leadership of the LDS church. 

 

[Guest]

Having children soon after marriage is one of many ideals we have come up periodically in the Church.  Some other ideals include marrying in your early 20s, having the mother stay at home, having the father earn a good wage so the family can live in a good neighborhood, divorce being totally out of the question, etc.  

The problem is, these are ideals.  Life is not fair.  Life is not neat.  Life throws you curve balls.  Many people on this forum have been hit with these curve balls.  Whether we want to admit it or not, some people have to adapt these ideals to their own situation.  Some people are struggling to do their best with what they have.  Some young couples are struggling to keep it together, even if it is not immediately apparent to you.

So, our prophets have given some things for these people just to think about.  Things like "maybe we should not rule out having children during poverty because it could be more of a blessing than we know".  People should listen, pray about it, and see if maybe they can apply to their situations.  Point being, however, is this stuff is not one-size fits all, nor should it be (as opposed to temple-recommend type issues, where EVERYONE needs to avoid, for example, committing adultery.)  The prophets have not passed down an absolute commandment that people should have children young.  It is only something to think about, and it may truly not work in some situations.  People need to prayerfully consider their own situations, options, and counsel with the Lord about what direction to take. 

For numerous reasons, including the highly personal nature of these decisions, the numerous factors which may not be apparent to outsiders, etc., it really is no one else's business what choice a couple makes in regard to having children.  It is between the couple, the Lord, and absolutely no one else.

Edited March 8, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[anatess2]

When to have children, I think, is more a State of Mind than material.

For example:  The reason of - I'm not financially capable of raising a child - is more of I'm not in that state of mind than it is about the lack of money.

So yes, the praying and consulting with God and spouse is, in effect, trying to get your state of mind in the right place for children.

I'll give you an example:  Congressman Jason Chaffetz stated yesterday that people say they can't afford health insurance but they can afford iPhones.  If that is true, then it is not that people can't afford health insurance, it is simply that they are not in that state of mind where health insurance is more important than iPhones.  Make sense?

So, can you successfully raise a child while in poverty?  Yes.  Can you successfully raise a child while you're still in school?  Yes.  Can you successfully raise a child when you're only 20 years old?  Yes.  Should you?  Depends on your state of mind.

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by anatess2

[prisonchaplain]

I seems wise to me (and there are 'experts' who agree) to wait up to two years after marriage, so man and woman can get to know each other. Also, this is the time to build a united front against the children, so when they come and one goes to mommy or daddy, based on who the perceived soft-touch is, they will always get the same answer from both. Even with a two year wait, a couple that gets married at age 25 would still have plenty of time for 3-5 children--way more than most are having. Then again, we waited five years, I didn't marry until I was 31, and we still managed to produce 3. 

[NightSG]

4 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I'll give you an example:  Congressman Jason Chaffetz stated yesterday that people say they can't afford health insurance but they can afford iPhones.  If that is true, then it is not that people can't afford health insurance, it is simply that they are not in that state of mind where health insurance is more important than iPhones.  Make sense?

Want to tell me where I can get worthwhile health insurance for $99 down and $40/mo?

Not "catastrophic" coverage that only kicks in when you have a proven fatal injury, but something that would get me a regular doctor visit for the flu at a <$50 copay.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I counsel my children to wait a year after marriage to have a child because as @prisonchaplain said, they need time to get to know one another.  The first year of marriage a couple is learning to build a new family unit, i.e. "my family did it this way" and "well, my family did it this way" must yield to "this will be OUR way."   They need to do that with finances, house keeping at least.  Being pregnant can make some women seriously hormonal, much worse than PMS, and lasts longer.  It's difficult to lay the foundation of a new family while dealing with hormones.  Ask my how I know this, LOL! It can be done, but it certainly complicates things. 

Reasons that come to my mind that a couple might pray and be counseled, by the Lord, to wait, are mental health, and physical health, and personal issues that may apply to only that couple.  The counsel to pray about it may also be another way of saying, "Don't take our word for it, seek your own testimony of the value and importance of this through prayer."  

[Latter-Day Marriage]

11 hours ago, Fether said:

but here is my question. What are the reason for not having a child? If there are none, Why are we asked to pray for when (I understand the "how many" part) when the prophets are pretty clear?

There are good reasons and there are selfish reasons for delaying children, or limiting the number of children you have.  God will look on your heart.

To start with, getting married is a big life change, and I think in most cases there is some wisdom in taking some time to adjust to that before adding the additional stresses of pregnancy and kids into the mix.  Once you start having kids you will never be just a couple again for a very long time.

Pregnancy is hard on a woman's body, sometimes very hard, and she plays an important role in the family so her health and strength should be considered.  Raising kids is also stressful and when you have several young children close together that can amplify the demands on mental and emotional resources so that too should be given consideration.

Parents have a number of financial, emotional, spiritual, educational and other obligations towards each child they have.  Some children have special needs that put parents in a situation that is more demanding then usual. There are weddings and missions and education to be paid for down the road.  God isn't going to send you money or heal some condition because you have another child, that is magical thinking.  You have a responsibility to evaluate your situation and determine what you feel capable of handling and seek confirmation on that.  If having another child would put you in a situation where  you can't adequately meet your obligations to the children you already have, and God isn't prompting you to have another child, I don't think a couple should feel obligated to have another child.

Now if somebody puts it off or limits it because of selfishness, desire for a more luxurious standard of living, or hostility towards the idea of having kids, then there is something wrong in their heart that hopefully will get worked out some day.

[Bad Karma]

Gosh, I don't know. I'm almost 50, Mrs Karma is almost 42, we're young and we're not, kind of that middle ground as it were. We've talked about it lots, we go back and forth. Mind you, we're at the upper end of the age spectrum and have also expressed to the other that we both want to go on a Senior Mission when the last of our nestlings flies away.  This is a great thread for couples on both sides of the age scale. 

[anatess2]

15 hours ago, NightSG said:

Want to tell me where I can get worthwhile health insurance for $99 down and $40/mo?

Not "catastrophic" coverage that only kicks in when you have a proven fatal injury, but something that would get me a regular doctor visit for the flu at a <$50 copay.

Why would you want insurance for $99 down and $40/mo that would pay your regular doctor visit when regular doctor visit is only once every 6 months for $45 a visit if you just pay the thing out of pocket?  You go to the doctor once a month for REGULAR doctor visit???

I tell ya.  People have forgotten what INSURANCE means.

Anyway, Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Florida used to offer Hospital and Surgical insurance for $120/ month for a family of 4 non-smoking, non-drinking folks, without maternity.  If you end up in the hospital or end up in surgery everything is paid for by insurance - no copay, no deductible, no max limit.  Obamacare made that insurance plan illegal.

Edited March 9, 2017 by anatess2

[Backroads]

Truth be told, I can't think of any good across-the-board reasons for delaying children. Mileage and situation varies per couple, but I just can't think of any hard-up "You can't have children yet because of XYZ". 

Last Sunday I attended my nephew's baby blessing. My brother and his wife have been married for 8 years. Their reason for delaying children? They couldn't do it. No, I don't mean fertility issues, I mean they Couldn't. Do. It. This baby is a sign of many years of tears, intensive therapy, and finally success (Why my SiL made me privy to this I don't know, but there it is.)

But it wasn't... let's not have kids because we're poor and starting our careers.

[prisonchaplain]

Wow, @Backroads. Your post reaffirms that ancient, good refrain, "There, but for the grace of God, go I." Put another way, we have no idea the crosses others are called to bear. Less judgment, more empathy! Thank you for the reminder.

[Fether]

So I have been looking for quotes from prophets dealing with the decision on when to have children. I remember hearing a lot that we should lot put education or careers ahead of starting a family... BUT U CANT FIND THEM X)

does anyone know any quotes or talks that mention this???

[Backroads]

22 minutes ago, Fether said:

So I have been looking for quotes from prophets dealing with the decision on when to have children. I remember hearing a lot that we should lot put education or careers ahead of starting a family... BUT U CANT FIND THEM X)

does anyone know any quotes or talks that mention this???

Nothing is ringing a bell. I more often hear words saying the opposite.

[Just_A_Guy]

12 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Why would you want insurance for $99 down and $40/mo that would pay your regular doctor visit when regular doctor visit is only once every 6 months for $45 a visit if you just pay the thing out of pocket?  You go to the doctor once a month for REGULAR doctor visit???

I tell ya.  People have forgotten what INSURANCE means.

Anyway, Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Florida used to offer Hospital and Surgical insurance for $120/ month for a family of 4 non-smoking, non-drinking folks, without maternity.  If you end up in the hospital or end up in surgery everything is paid for by insurance - no copay, no deductible, no max limit.  Obamacare made that insurance plan illegal.

In my neck of the woods, $100-150 cash is probably a more realistic price to pay for a a doctor's visit with no further tests, X-rays, etc.  But yeah, the $579/year NightSG proposes would easily cover a couple such visits per year for most young males.

The thing about insurance is that if, ultimately, you get more out of it than you paid into it--someone else is paying for your health care.  Let that sink in for a sec--someone ELSE is paying for YOUR health care.  And it's probably not some money-grubbing multi-millionaire with a harem and a yacht.  It's probably a working schmuck like me who wanted to take his kids to Disneyland this year but won't be able to, because last year my family shelled out $2K in insurance premiums that didn't pay for themselves and then coughed up a six-hundred buck "shared responsibility payment" on top of that because we finally let our insurance lapse for the last couple months of the year.

I get doing that for life-saving care (though even then I think a truly free market would tend to make that more accessible for most); but I don't consider it an acceptable sacrifice for my family to be compelled to make just so that some unemployed hypochondriac can run to the ER every time they get a hangnail.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Just_A_Guy

[Fether]

3 hours ago, Backroads said:

Nothing is ringing a bell. I more often hear words saying the opposite.

I just got done reading a similar topic back from 2012 where it was getting pretty heated between you and another

"Too many young people set their minds, determining they will not marry or have children until they are more secure, until the military service period is over; until the college degree is secured; until the occupation is more well-defined; until the debts are paid; or until it is more convenient. They have forgotten that the first commandment is to ‘be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it.'"- Spencer W. Kimball

But I also know that demanding a child every 10 months starting the night if a wedding would be a fanatical and pharasiacle way to approach it. It is abdecision to seek revelation for.

"When to have a child and how many children to have are private decisions to be made between a husband and wife and the Lord. These are sacred decisions--decisions that should be made with sincere prayer and acted on with great faith." -Elder Anderson

I also have no intention to make judgements on those who plan parenthood different my future spouse and I do.

I also expect the same from others.

 

[anatess2]

12 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

In my neck of the woods, $100-150 cash is probably a more realistic price to pay for a a doctor's visit with no further tests, X-rays, etc.  But yeah, the $579/year NightSG proposes would easily cover a couple such visits per year for most young males.

The thing about insurance is that if, ultimately, you get more out of it than you paid into it--someone else is paying for your health care.  Let that sink in for a sec--someone ELSE is paying for YOUR health care.  And it's probably not some money-grubbing multi-millionaire with a harem and a yacht.  It's probably a working schmuck like me who wanted to take his kids to Disneyland this year but won't be able to, because last year my family shelled out $2K in insurance premiums that didn't pay for themselves and then coughed up a six-hundred buck "shared responsibility payment" on top of that because we finally let our insurance lapse for the last couple months of the year.

I get doing that for life-saving care (though even then I think a truly free market would tend to make that more accessible for most); but I don't consider it an acceptable sacrifice for my family to be compelled to make just so that some unemployed hypochondriac can run to the ER every time they get a hangnail.

In my neck of the woods you pay $100-$150 cash if you don't tell the doctor you're self-pay.  If you tell him you're self-insured, you can negotiate them down to insurance rate (which is what I did with my doctors including the OB/GYN).  Now, when the doctor knows you're self-insured, he also helps you find meds that do the same thing but are cheaper - like generic labels.  He also gets to perform stuff on you that doesn't follow insurance protocols which is better for you and your pocket - like instead of having to go through all these lab stuff that insurance protocols tell you you need when the doctor knows the chiropractor is what will make you feel better.  That's, of course, if you have a good doctor and not one of these diagnosis-idiot doctors who relies on insurance protocols to render a diagnosis.  But, that's done away now as there's no such thing as self-insured under Obamacare.

True story:  So, for the 1st 5 months of my pregnancy, I was self-insured.  My OB mapped out my pre-natal plan telling me he can just do the listening thing instead of going through the more expensive sonogram unless something doesn't sound good to him on the listening thing.  He kept going on and on and on about we're not going to do this, we're going to do this instead, trying to save me some money.  I finally had to interrupt him in the middle of his planning to tell him... Dude, I've been wanting to have this baby for 4 years.  I don't want to save money.  You can charge me for a weekly sonogram and the warm gel!

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by anatess2

[my two cents]

Financially speaking - People waiting to have kids till they're rolling in the dough is probably not the best idea but having them when they're dependent on the church to put food on their table has issues as well.

Edited March 11, 2017 by my two cents

[The Folk Prophet]

On 3/9/2017 at 7:04 PM, Fether said:

So I have been looking for quotes from prophets dealing with the decision on when to have children. I remember hearing a lot that we should lot put education or careers ahead of starting a family... BUT U CANT FIND THEM X)

does anyone know any quotes or talks that mention this???

Here's a few sources:

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/spencer-w-kimball_marriage-honorable/

https://www.lds.org/liahona/2011/11/children.p1?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/03/young-adults/delaying-marriage-the-trends-and-the-consequences?lang=eng

[The Folk Prophet]

3 hours ago, my two cents said:

...but having them when they're dependent on the church to put food on their table has issues as well.

Expound. "Issues" is such a generic term.

[Suzie]

On 3/9/2017 at 7:26 AM, Backroads said:

Truth be told, I can't think of any good across-the-board reasons for delaying children. Mileage and situation varies per couple, but I just can't think of any hard-up "You can't have children yet because of XYZ". 

 

Health related-issues.

[Fether]

@LiterateParakeet

I don't want this to come off as trying to sway others in believing my way, cause I strongly believe in personal revelation for individuals. I ask this cause I want to make sure I don't have a biased toward my own belief.

is there any prophetic quote that suggests you should wait to have children besides health issues?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

9 hours ago, Fether said:

@LiterateParakeet

I don't want this to come off as trying to sway others in believing my way, cause I strongly believe in personal revelation for individuals. I ask this cause I want to make sure I don't have a biased toward my own belief.

is there any prophetic quote that suggests you should wait to have children besides health issues?

I understand.  How about this?     

Quote

 

 Issues to consider include the physical and mental health of the mother and father and their capacity to provide the basic necessities of life for their children.

Decisions about birth control and the consequences of those decisions rest solely with each married couple. Elective abortion as a method of birth control, however, is contrary to the commandments of God.  
 https://www.lds.org/topics/birth-control?lang=eng&old=true

 

 

[Fether]

@LiterateParakeet

It's an interesting balance! On one side we need not be "comfortable" to start raising kids, but we also need to be financially able to. 

Not sure if you have done it yet, in the midst of bit, or it's long gone, but I'm about to dive in!

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

6 hours ago, Fether said:

@LiterateParakeet

It's an interesting balance! On one side we need not be "comfortable" to start raising kids, but we also need to be financially able to. 

Not sure if you have done it yet, in the midst of bit, or it's long gone, but I'm about to dive in!

Done it yet?  You mean have children?  Yes, I have five.  The youngest is 11.  I highly recommend it.