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1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

True; but one prerequisite to having a temple sealing that will be honored in the eternities, is receiving the spiritual blessings affiliated with the endowment.  One prerequisite for receiving the spiritual blessings affiliated with the endowment (not just undergoing the ceremony, but getting the actual spiritual blessings that can accompany it) is being cleansed from the blood and sins of your generation.

So I would encourage you to think long and hard about what you have done/are doing, in lieu of a mission, to spread the gospel of repentance to your fellowman so that you don't someday find yourself held accountable for their sins.  

Priesthood ordination isn't just something you go through en route to the greater goal of wedding and bedding some sweet Mormon girl.  It's a commitment to spiritually wear out one's own life in the service of others.  Wise LDS girls who consider you as a marriage prospect will expect to see that commitment embodied in your life--if not through missionary service, then by some comparable sacrifice.  A girl who doesn't encourage/expect that of you, might well not be a Mormon (at least, not a very active one) for very long once you're married, since sooner or later she will start to resent the inconveniences that service in the Church inevitably impose on your time and resources.  In which case--you may as well go ahead and start dating non-members now. ;) 

I have actually thought about serving in one of the mission programs for the alternative missions. Don't get me wrong, I wont be wasting my time partying or sitting at home playing video games. I plan to live the best I can and participate in church where possible. I just dont think I have a desire, nor am I really ready, to serve a mission now. And I definitely dont want to marry just for the heck of it or because I am bored. But, I realize if I am not going to go on a mission, I need to pursue worth while things that greatly add to my future, like an education and marriage. And I still understand a mission would be totally worth the time and bring blessings, but it is not want I want.

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12 minutes ago, hewasamormonboy said:

I have actually thought about serving in one of the mission programs for the alternative missions. Don't get me wrong, I wont be wasting my time partying or sitting at home playing video games. I plan to live the best I can and participate in church where possible. I just dont think I have a desire, nor am I really ready, to serve a mission now. And I definitely dont want to marry just for the heck of it or because I am bored. But, I realize if I am not going to go on a mission, I need to pursue worth while things that greatly add to my future, like an education and marriage. And I still understand a mission would be totally worth the time and bring blessings, but it is not want I want.

Whatever you choose to do, I hope it works out for you. You are surely in all of our prayers! 

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15 minutes ago, hewasamormonboy said:

Im not saying that I am in some way super special or that I should be rewarded or anything like that. I just understand that not all women in the church, Id even say a fair amount of them, dont necessarily require a mission in their spouse. I take it you are a dad/grandfather who is a member and live in an area where the church has a relatively high influence, but the fact is, outside of utah and idaho, missions are not as frequent. The only reason I asked the original question in the first place is because there aren't many peeople single and my age around; most are either older, married, or going to college at a byu school. Im sorry that I dont really care about the stoic, sarcastic comments about my views on a mission. I like to at least look for more than being a sunday mormon that marries a trophy wife and then comes on the internet to do nothing but look for satisfaction in trying to one-up someone younger with shallow arguments.

 

Speaking as a female on this thread--

The most you can do to be attractive a young lady is to be Christ-like.  Work on:

-- Your testimony.  Regardless of whether or not you serve a mission, this is huge

-- Your education and finical future

-- Your general self-upkeep.  Keep in shape spiritually, emotionally, physically.

-- General maturity / manners / charity 

Now how to find an attractive young lady (LDS or not):

-- You got to get out there.  No, that doesn't mean you have to constantly ask people out, but if *you* never get out, then ladies have no opportunity to meet you.

-- Be brave.  

-- Keep trying, even after 99 failures

-- Be honest and realistic with yourself and her.  Communication is key.

 

 

 

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@hewasamormonboy - fwiw - My husband is a much better husband thanks to his *honorable* mission than he would've been without it.  Don't get me wrong, he's a really great guy but he was exposed to things on his mission (hardships, attitudes, different personalities, etc) that prepared him for marriage. Also, you may want to consider who it is that you're being influenced by.  Do you really want him to outsmart you??

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I think the whole question got a bit out of had. I originally just wanted to see if anyone knew a lady also looking for someone. Sorry I asked I guess. Thank you Jane_Doe, I really liked your comment

 

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2 hours ago, hewasamormonboy said:

I think the whole question got a bit out of had. I originally just wanted to see if anyone knew a lady also looking for someone. Sorry I asked I guess. Thank you Jane_Doe, I really liked your comment.

Two reasons for this:

1) We are not very good at staying on topic. I actually sort of like this most of the time. That is the way most conversations go in the real world, after all. And it's easier to return to the original topic here than it is in the real world.

2) If we see signs that somebody is heading for trouble, we will try to head that off first. And most of us think that a) men seriously dating before missions and b) men deciding not to go on a mission because of personal preference are putting themselves in harm's way.

If you stick around, you will see these patterns pop up a lot.

And rereading your response here and the original post, I have to verify: you are basically asking for introductions to women to date online?

Edited to add: The opening of your first post asked for help, of which advice is the most frequent type of help given in the forums. I think advice of one kind or another actually made up the majority of this discussion.

Edited by SilentOne

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Getting back to the original question about finding a lady......

I live in a fairly isolated, very small stake. It's about 2 1/2 hours drive from our stake centre to the neighbouring stake centre. We have 4 small wards based in our city of about 350,000, and one tiny branch, 3 hours drive away. There are about 50 people attending the branch, and its been almost the same 50 people for most of the last 15 years. I was down there once on a stake visit, and there had been 3 marriages there in the past 18 months, all to RMs. I asked the Branch President how it had happened. He said that one bride had been found through online dating, another had been "prayed" into the area, ie, she had moved into the area, probably partly as a result of the prayers of one of the RMs, and a third was a local girl that had been found, taught and baptised by the searching RM. I thought it was a remarkable outcome, given the size and isolation of that branch, and it all seemed to be powered by the faith and works of the RMs.

I don't think its an either/or decision. You can both complete your education and serve a mission. If you don't currently have a desire to serve a mission, perhaps you will have by the time you finish your education. And if you don't currently have a desire, exercise faith and humility and ask the Lord to bless you with a desire. You can help foster this desire by setting and keeping a goal to go out and help the missionaries in your ward one or two nights a month. I don't think that's a big thing to ask. After doing that for a year or so, and seeing how great is the work they are involved in, and asking the Lord to bless you with a desire, you just might start to have a desire to serve.

If you'd like to see the latest word of the Lord on this topic, I recommend you take a look at lds.org today. The First Presidency message, by President Monson, is entitled Called to the Work and is all about missionary work. https://www.lds.org/liahona/2017/06/called-to-the-work?cid=HP_TU_30-5-2017_dPFD_fLHNA_xLIDyL1-A_&lang=eng. As part of that message, President Monson says 

"As you serve, you will build rich eternal memories and friendships. I know of no field which produces a more bounteous harvest of happiness than the mission field."

Why deprive yourself off from what a prophet pf God has called a "bounteous harvest of happiness"?

ps

I can't resist adding the following: After 8 weeks in the MTC and 20 hours on three planes, my son finally arrived in the mission field about 9 hours ago. :):) He was part of the first group of missionaries to use the new MTC facilities. http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/provo-missionary-training-center-expansion?cid=HP_FR_2-6-2017_dPAD_fMNWS_xLIDyL2_

Edited by askandanswer

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10 hours ago, hewasamormonboy said:

Im not saying that I am in some way super special or that I should be rewarded or anything like that. I just understand that not all women in the church, Id even say a fair amount of them, dont necessarily require a mission in their spouse. I take it you are a dad/grandfather who is a member and live in an area where the church has a relatively high influence, but the fact is, outside of utah and idaho, missions are not as frequent. The only reason I asked the original question in the first place is because there aren't many peeople single and my age around; most are either older, married, or going to college at a byu school. Im sorry that I dont really care about the stoic, sarcastic comments about my views on a mission.

I like to at least look for more than being a sunday mormon that marries a trophy wife and then comes on the internet to do nothing but look for satisfaction in trying to one-up someone younger with shallow arguments.

Negative.  I was the first one in my family to serve a mission; I live in an area outside of Utah and Idaho where when growing up there were only a couple of stakes in a 200 mile radius. I served, an absolutely awesome experience-filled with much trial, tribulation and joy.  I married and have a family.  While a mission is not the end-all-be-all of life-it is a jump-start that will provide a reservoir of spiritual experiences that will last a lifetime.  It has been a great strength for me to draw upon those experience, life lessons as I've faced my own personal challenges in life.

To your last sentence . . .well a Sunday mormon is one who preaches the religion but doesn't live it.  You preach you have a good testimony, you don't want to lower your standards, yet you have arbitrarily decided that you don't want to serve a mission.  That is the epitome of a Sunday mormon (yeah missions are good but aren't for me . . .i.e. preach it but don't live it).

I really don't get your complaining.  You complain there is no one to date, the are either older, married or going to college at BYU, or only want to date RMs, yet you don't want to be a missionary or change your situation.  That is called wanting the world to be handed to you on a silver platter.

If the bolded portion is honestly what you believe then good luck. I agree there are some who don't require it-but you are currently having a hard time finding any that are like that . . . . 

Maybe what you believe doesn't quite match up to reality, just a thought.

One-uping isn't my objective-you came for advice, I gave you advice-you don't like it-that's fine your prerogative to not like it.  It ain't my life.

Edited by yjacket

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5 hours ago, hewasamormonboy said:

I think the whole question got a bit out of had. I originally just wanted to see if anyone knew a lady also looking for someone. Sorry I asked I guess. Thank you Jane_Doe, I really liked your comment.

Is LDS.net a dating service?  

If you want to know how to get dates, how to prepare for marriage, how to be strengthen yourself for marriage, etc. those are fair questions. Individuals have been giving you this advice (some in a nice way, others in a more stern way-like me:-) ).

I'm just really confused here.  Did you honestly expect to come onto a non-dating forum (to which you are a new member and no-one knows you), ask "hey does anyone know someone who would like to date me?" and someone pop up and say "oh yeah, my 3rd cousin is LDS and is looking for someone, I'll PM you her e-mail address and you guys can chat?"  

I hope not, b/c if you were I believe your hopes were misplaced.

There are plenty of dating sites in general and several LDS dating sites in specific.  If you can't find someone to date in your area, go to an LDS online dating site, but don't be surprised when the girls you'd like to date want to date RMs not someone who actively choosing not to serve a mission.

If you want to know why serving a mission is so important as a selector for marriage material-we can have that discussion.  But I don't believe you want to have that discussion-you have chosen not to serve and are now upset that you can't seem to find anyone to date, are complaining about it and then you get upset when you are called on it and they say "what else did you expect?"

I'm curious here.  

Have you ever sat down, had an honest conversation with your Heavenly Father about serving a mission?  Have you been willing to submit your will to His no matter what He instructs you to do?  Have you prayed to find out if God wants you to serve a mission?

Edited by yjacket

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Chiming back in - Pursuing an education is a great thing and I commend anyone for doing it.  It may be worth considering though that you'll be even more blessed in your studies and career if you give a mission an honest go.  My husband has had some amazing opportunities, etc and I'm sure in part, it's because he served a faithful mission.  

That said, since you're just asking about dating, have you checked facebook for singles groups?  That can lead to skype convos and then maybe 'meeting half-way' for a date. Also, my area has regional ysa activities from time to time.  Maybe find out what might be happening where you are (google can possibly help with that) and go to those.

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If you want to attract a Faithful young LDS lady you have to understand what they are looking for then either decide to adjust to their expectations or rule those ones out for a smaller subset that do not have such an expectation.

Most Faithful young LDS Ladies want faithful young LDS man who will be strong and faithful in times of trial.  When these young ladies look at you... what are they going to see?  Are they going to see a strong and Faithful man who is doing what the Lord asks because the Lord has asked it?  Or are they going to see a young man in open rebellion against the Lord because they are selfishly putting their own desires before the will of the Lord?

I think the answer is clear what a Faithful young LDS woman would want.  Now some will point out that many faithful LDS men didn't serve and that their current condition is more important then past action, and this is true.  So lets be very clear that your current condition is open rebellion, theirs is humble repentance not the same at all.  One could hope that humble repentance will soon come for you but that is up to you.

So you can either repent to become the Faithful young man they are looking for... Or limit yourself to the young women who are ok with their future husband currently being in open rebellion before God.  And in that last case you aren't really looking for a Faithful young LDS lady any more..  You are looking for a rebellious young LDS lady, and you know we have those too but they are found in different places.

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12 hours ago, hewasamormonboy said:

but the fact is, outside of utah and idaho, missions are not as frequent.

Not true.  I live in Texas.  I don't know if you can find a more anti-Mormon state.  We have less than a 2% presence here.  Most of the young men in both stakes I've lived in do go on missions.  This is not because of pressure.  It is a personal decision these YM have made.

12 hours ago, hewasamormonboy said:

Im not saying that I am in some way super special

...

Im sorry that I dont really care about the stoic, sarcastic comments about my views on a mission.

I like to at least look for more than being a sunday mormon that marries a trophy wife and then comes on the internet to do nothing but look for satisfaction in trying to one-up someone younger with shallow arguments.

I'm having difficulty reconciling the first line with the last two.

It is too easy to interpret the last line to mean that you believe those who do go on a mission are only:

1) Sunday Mormons.
2) Marry trophy wives.
3) Have shallow arguments designed to one-up someone else.

I'm not writing this to try to one-up you.  I'm simply holding a mirror up to your own statements.  IF you continue with this attitude AND IF you follow through with your decision to deny yourself the blessings of a mission, then I can guarantee you that you will fall away from the Church.

In the same vein, I would agree with you that if you ONLY go on a mission from a sense of "obligation", then you may receive few of or none of the blessings of a mission anyway.

The ideal would be for you to work on obtaining a testimony sufficient to be inspired to go on a mission of your own volition and devotion to the Lord.  With that motivation and testimony, you will be very blessed by making YOUR OWN DECISION to go on a mission.

Edited by Guest

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55 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

In the same vein, I would agree with you that if you ONLY go on a mission from a sense of "obligation", then you may receive few of or none of the blessings of a mission anyway.

Amen to this.  Going from a sense of duty/obligation is certainly a righteous desire as it is one; but the blessings you get will be varied depending on the degree.  

Going b/c everyone else is going and it's just what you do: Good

Going b/c you understand that Prophets have said you should and you are going b/c you want to be obedient to them: Better

Going b/c you understand God has said you should go and you want to be faithful to Him and help bring others to Christ: Best

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To the men replying to this thread, are young men currently taught about the need to rid themselves of the blood and sins of their generation - are they taught what that means and that missionary work and honoring their priesthood are how they do this, and that they must do it to keep temple covenants?  (I don't recall any teachings along these lines when I was growing up, but what they teach the YM is surely different from what the YW hear...)  Maybe the problem is that our OP was never taught, and therefore never had the chance to gain a testimony and then be converted to this principle.  I fear his ideas about what it means to be endowed and sealed in the temple are far from the truth.

Anywho, I tend to agree with everyone here - our poor OP is walking a dangerous road that will lead him away from the truth until / unless he chooses to change.

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44 minutes ago, zil said:

To the men replying to this thread, are young men currently taught about the need to rid themselves of the blood and sins of their generation - are they taught what that means and that missionary work and honoring their priesthood are how they do this, and that they must do it to keep temple covenants?  (I don't recall any teachings along these lines when I was growing up, but what they teach the YM is surely different from what the YW hear...)  Maybe the problem is that our OP was never taught, and therefore never had the chance to gain a testimony and then be converted to this principle.  I fear his ideas about what it means to be endowed and sealed in the temple are far from the truth.

I don't know how clearly past or present YM/YW curricula have gone beyond the typical "priesthood duty" mantra we usually hear.  But when you dig into LDS scripture and temple liturgy, the connections are certainly there.  I have formerly written them up thus:

On 6/7/2015 at 3:10 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

Well, serving a mission may not be a doctrinal requirement; but proclaiming the Gospel certainly is--at least, if you're a priesthood holder.

When you receive the priesthood (possibly the Aaronic, certainly the Melchizedek), you take upon yourself the blood and sins of your generation. The Book of Mormon authors (notably Jacob (see also here and here), Benjamin, and Moroni (see also here) were preoccupied with this idea. This obligation has not been discharged by the "raised bar". If you pay very close attention to the beginning of the endowment, it mentions that the initiatory ordinances functions differently for those who have the priesthood (i.e. men) versus those who do not (i.e. women). 

D&C 84 is clear that males have an obligation to receive the priesthood; so you can't dodge its obligations merely by declining to receive your ordination.

So, with reasonable allowances as defined by the Church based primarily on ability (health/mental conditions, etc), all males are expected to do everything in their power to help others free themselves from the bond of sin. You're most likely never going to get a better chance to do that, than you will by serving an LDS mission.

Re current LDS teaching, in another thread I once (perhaps a tinge histrionically) suggested that

On 8/1/2012 at 11:38 AM, Just_A_Guy said:

With regard to the OP, I submit that the problem isn't that the Church is teaching young women to be too picky. The problem is that the Church is turning out hundreds of young men who have no idea what the priesthood actually is, or what duties it entails, or how their performance of those duties (or lack thereof) ties into the covenants that are prerequisites for temple marriage. And these young men expect to be permitted to preside over their wives by virtue of their "priesthood", without having to be accountable to their wives for the way they've managed their priesthood stewardship.

I wouldn't use quite such strident rhetoric today; and nor would I pick apart the Church's curriculum.  But I do think that, for whatever reason, the YM program does seem to continue to turn out an uncomfortably high number of young men who do focus on the priesthood's blessings and prerogatives whilst being largely unaware of the scope and depth of their priesthood obligations.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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31 minutes ago, zil said:

To the men replying to this thread, are young men currently taught about the need to rid themselves of the blood and sins of their generation - are they taught what that means and that missionary work and honoring their priesthood are how they do this, and that they must do it to keep temple covenants?  (I don't recall any teachings along these lines when I was growing up, but what they teach the YM is surely different from what the YW hear...)  Maybe the problem is that our OP was never taught, and therefore never had the chance to gain a testimony and then be converted to this principle.  I fear his ideas about what it means to be endowed and sealed in the temple are far from the truth.

Anywho, I tend to agree with everyone here - our poor OP is walking a dangerous road that will lead him away from the truth until / unless he chooses to change.

When I was young, they didn't use the same language as you used here (blood and sins of this generation).  But they did teach principles of testimony and preaching repentance.  Do young women get taught about preaching repentance to others?  I doubt it is as much as our young men were in my time (which was around Brigham Young's tenure).:)

But today, I have spent a lot of time in the YM program.  I'm shocked at how little they know about basic gospel principles.  Most of the time they are taught good principles of living, but not necessarily the need to call repentance.  Some of them are really good boys and YM.  They were ready by the time they were deacons. 

For others, it takes the entire 6 years to get them ready.  And, of course, some are never ready.  But what is ready?  If they understand the gospel principles and are living righteously, they are ready.  Having the desire to go is a different story.  Do all of them go because they understand the importance of a mission?  I doubt it.  While that would be the ideal, I believe it is like refusing to get married until you are ready for all the trials of marriage.  Or how about waiting to have kids until you're perfectly prepared to be a great parent?  Not happening.

Instead, we need to have YM who have learned to rely on the Lord, to feel and recognize the Spirit, and obey the promptings thereof.  Does it need to be 100%?  No.  That would mean we're perfect.  The Lord doesn't require perfection.  But if they at the bare minimum have the ability to do these things, then the lessons of the mission will get them to do it more often.

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I should add--I don't know if it's still used; but I vaguely remember hearing a quote in my YM days--maybe from Pres. Woodruff or Pres. Taylor--to the effect that priesthood holders would stand answerable for the sins that were committed by persons who the priesthood holder could have called to repentance, but didn't.

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25 minutes ago, zil said:

are young men currently taught about the need to rid themselves of the blood and sins of their generation - are they taught what that means and that missionary work and honoring their priesthood are how they do this, and that they must do it to keep temple covenants?

Not directly, no. The phrase "clean from the blood and sins of this generation" is considered "temple language" and in my experience is rarely used, even though it's a perfectly good scriptural teaching.

A quick search of lds.org suggests that the D&C Student Manual is the prime location where the phrase "blood and sins" is used in the Church's teaching material, popping up three or four times, Several General Conference talks use it, and there are two references that show up in The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles and one in a Church News article from December 2014. Surprisingly, along with a mention in a BYU speech and one or two New Era mentions, that appears to be all that lds.org returns when you search for "blood and sins".

Maybe we would do well to start incorporating that particular phrase into our Church lexicon more. We already have enough "Mormonspeak" to alienate ourselves from the world, but this phrase might be well worth becoming a bit more Mormonspeak.

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3 minutes ago, Vort said:

Not directly, no. The phrase "clean from the blood and sins of this generation" is considered "temple language" and in my experience is rarely used, even though it's a perfectly good scriptural teaching.

A quick search of lds.org suggests that the D&C Student Manual is the prime location where the phrase "blood and sins" is used in the Church's teaching material, popping up three or four times, Several General Conference talks use it, and there are two references that show up in The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles and one in a Church News article from December 2014. Surprisingly, along with a mention in a BYU speech and one or two New Era mentions, that appears to be all that lds.org returns when you search for "blood and sins".

Maybe we would do well to start incorporating that particular phrase into our Church lexicon more. We already have enough "Mormonspeak" to alienate ourselves from the world, but this phrase might be well worth becoming a bit more Mormonspeak.

I suspect that the LDS works/grace rhetorical pendulum will have to swing back the other way a bit before such language gains currency.

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1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I wouldn't use quite such strident rhetoric today; and nor would I pick apart the Church's curriculum.  But I do think that, for whatever reason, the YM program does seem to continue to turn out an uncomfortably high number of young men who do focus on the priesthood's blessings and prerogatives whilst being largely unaware of the scope and depth of their priesthood obligations.

The problem, as should be obvious, is not God's church, but rather, Satan's influence on mankind. YM will always have their agency. There will always be some of them who choose to disregard, explain away, ignore, or otherwise disengage from church teachings. The teachings are perfectly sufficient.

And...more importantly, the real job of teaching these things rests with the parents, who hold the penultimate responsibility for the failure (the ultimate responsibility being on the individual, of course).

Edited by The Folk Prophet

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16 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

The problem, as should be obvious, is not God's church, but rather, Satan's influence on mankind. YM will always have their agency. There will always be some of them who choose to disregard, explain away, ignore, or otherwise disengage from church teachings. The teachings are perfectly sufficient.

And...more importantly, the real job of teaching these things rests with the parents, who hold the penultimate responsibility for the failure (the ultimate responsibility being on the individual, of course).

Yep.  As a Church we can always finesse and improve the way we teach kids (and adults) to engage with the scriptures, I think; but fundamentally and with relatively few exceptions--either people are studying their scriptures, or they aren't; and generally speaking the former group are a lot less likely to be surprised/outraged at the Church's adoption of scriptural teachings and/or practices.

As we all know, when the Mormon leadership really wants to keep something a secret--they write it into the scriptures. ;)

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I wouldn't use quite such strident rhetoric today; and nor would I pick apart the Church's curriculum.  But I do think that, for whatever reason, the YM program does seem to continue to turn out more self-entitled, doctrinal ignoramuses than is generally desirable.

Not only do I want to add my voice to what FP said about this, but I do believe that this particular weakness in how our YM are being trained is a reflection of the blood and sins of our generation.  Too many parents, as well as Church instructors, are not doing their job and emphasizing those principles that are really important.  We tend to always fall back on,"Oh, but of course it doesn't mean..."  While that is sometimes true, it is not true a lot more often than we tend to think.  It really does mean that.

I believe even that is because we've been duped by the subtle activities of Satan.  Children are being raised by Hollywood more than the Church.  Those children are now adults.  Many of them don't know how to parent because all they know is what Hollywood tells them.  And that ends up raising snowflakes.

We in the Church are not immune.

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