LDS culture problem

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

mhmm. And does @prisonchaplain conduct meetings for your non-member neighbors?

@prisonchaplain,

Out of curiosity, do you carry while at church?  Do you encourage or discourage your congregation to carry or not carry?  Or do you just not say anything?

[Grunt]

Just now, Carborendum said:

We normally don't either simply because of cost.  My wife actively tries to get us to not have sugar in the house because of health reasons.  I just don't agree.  But she's the one who does the grocery shopping and much of the cooking, so, we eat what she wants.

But if you were to get something for a special occasion...  Just thinking out loud. 

I certainly understood your intent.  I just meant as far as your experiment with soda was concerned.

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

Pizza?   Ha!   When I said I live in the boonies, I meant BOONIES!  There is no pizza here.  I understand your point, though. We did prepare something for them last time but they cancelled.  They've only been once.  I'm sure it's because of where I live.  I'll probably have to keep going to church if I want information. No big deal. 

I know a thing or two about living in the boonies (around here "town" may or may not include a gas station).  Your missionaries are being slackers.  Maybe... would you be chill picking them up?  That way they can't complain about the distance and can't dodge you (else they get honked at! :P).   

(You are the same gender as your missionaries, right?  Just asking because there's special rules for cross-gender teaching).

[eddified]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

In Texas the legal requirements for the wording are not quite met by the Church's statement as an outright prohibition.  So, I see it about the same as Starbuck's policy of "We'd rather you leave them at home.  But there's really nothing we're going to do about it if you come in with a gun and a license to carry."

I'm pretty sure I heard it was a crime (misdemeanor) to accidentally show your gun in Texas while carrying concealed, and this may even cover just the gun "printing" on your clothes.

 

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

I'd actually like to have a report on how the missionaries react if you would offer them some Coke along with dinner and a lesson.  Have some Sprite behind your back just in case they shy away from it.  A polite missionary will simply ask for water instead.  But I wonder.

On my mission, I would've been the one to politely decline Coke and ask for water. I simply choose not to drink caffeine, and I've been this way since I was a pizza delivery driver at 18 years old. My mother raised me with the idea that soda with caffeine is evil. One day as a pizza delivery driver, I decided to rebel against her teachings and buy a caffeinated soda beverage from the pizza establishment, to drink while I was out delivering pizzas. I drank it, and got a bit sick. I think I got a headache (I don't remember exactly - maybe it was an upset stomach). To me, that was sign enough that I shouldn't drink it. I don't think caffeine is evil (at least, not as evil as my mother thinks it ), but I do choose to stay away from it. Personal decision. I've never taught anyone outside my family that we shouldn't drink caffeinated soda*. I agree it is unwise to open that can of worms, it's really not a big deal.

 

*Unless you count this comment as "teaching people to not drink caffeinated soda"?? 

Edited July 26, 2017 by eddified

[Guest]

Just now, eddified said:

 

On my mission, I would've been the one to politely decline Coke and ask for water. I simply choose not to drink caffeine, and I've been this way since I was a pizza delivery driver at 18 years old. My mother raised me with the idea that soda with caffeine is evil. One day as a pizza delivery driver, I decided to rebel against her teachings and buy a caffeinated soda beverage from the pizza establishment, to drink while I was out delivering pizzas. I drank it, and got a bit sick. I think I got a headache (I don't remember exactly - maybe it was an upset stomach). To me, that was sign enough that I shouldn't drink it. I don't think caffeine is evil (at least, not as evil as my mother thinks it ), but I do choose to stay away from it. Personal decision. I've never taught anyone outside my family that we shouldn't drink caffeinated soda. I agree it is unwise to open that can of worms, it's really not a big deal.

On my mission, my mission president would serve caffeinated cokes at zone conference.  

At that point, I had had very little caffeine, since my mom also raised me to believe caffeine was of the devil.  

So anyhow, my mission president was the one who got me addicted to the stuff!  

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, eddified said:

I'm pretty sure I heard it was a crime (misdemeanor) to accidentally show your gun in Texas while carrying concealed, and this may even cover just the gun "printing" on your clothes.

There was some legal to do over that a while ago.  But the latest legislation that was passed either earlier this year or some time last year now allows anyone who has a concealed carry permit to carry openly.  So, that is no longer a problem.

[Grunt]

18 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

I know a thing or two about living in the boonies (around here "town" may or may not include a gas station).  Your missionaries are being slackers.  Maybe... would you be chill picking them up?  That way they can't complain about the distance and can't dodge you (else they get honked at! :P).   

(You are the same gender as your missionaries, right?  Just asking because there's special rules for cross-gender teaching).

I'd be fine with it.  However, do I even need them at this point?  If I'm going to be chasing knowledge on my own, I'd rather just go to church.   

I am the same gender as the missionaries.  However, my wife was present when they came to the house that one time.  Does that make a difference?

[eddified]

9 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

There was some legal to do over that a while ago.  But the latest legislation that was passed either earlier this year or some time last year now allows anyone who has a concealed carry permit to carry openly.  So, that is no longer a problem.

I personally take that as great news! I don't live in Texas but I grew up there and lots of my family members live there.

[eddified]

3 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I'd be fine with it.  However, do I even need them at this point?  If I'm going to be chasing knowledge on my own, I'd rather just go to church.   

I am the same gender as the missionaries.  However, my wife was present when they came to the house that one time.  Does that make a difference?

No. If you're both present, it's fine. It only becomes an issue if male missionaries show up and your wife is the only one there. In that case, if they follow the rules, they should politely explain that their rules don't allow them to enter the building. In which case they may give a very short message on the door step, and then re-schedule. At least, this is how it's "supposed to" work.

I think that you are "supposed to" still be taught by the missionaries. If you are going to be attending church, you can let the Elders [the missionaries] know that you'll be there, and that you would like to meet with them in one of the classrooms after meetings are over. This may resolve their concerns about going out to the boonies. Meeting you at the church may help them keep their appointments.

[Jane_Doe]

5 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I'd be fine with it.  However, do I even need them at this point?  If I'm going to be chasing knowledge on my own, I'd rather just go to church.   

Fair enough.

5 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I am the same gender as the missionaries.  However, my wife was present when they came to the house that one time.  Does that make a difference?

Missionaries aren't supposed to be alone with someone of the opposite sex.  So you (a man) being taught by male missionaries is totally fine.  If you had female missionaries they would try to arrange something to obey that rule (like having someone else in the room or teaching you in a public space).

[Grunt]

4 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Fair enough.

Missionaries aren't supposed to be alone with someone of the opposite sex.  So you (a man) being taught by male missionaries is totally fine.  If you had female missionaries they would try to arrange something to obey that rule (like having someone else in the room or teaching you in a public space).

That makes sense.  The first missionaries that called me were female.  I thought they handed me off because this church was closer (it is) but it may have been because of gender.

[Jane_Doe]

1 minute ago, Grunt said:

That makes sense.  The first missionaries that called me were female.  I thought they handed me off because this church was closer (it is) but it may have been because of gender.

Maybe, if both sets serve in your ward.  The other likely reason would be that they realize you lived in the Elder's ward & not theirs, and hence are having the Elder's teach you.  

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Grunt said:

That makes sense.  The first missionaries that called me were female.  I thought they handed me off because this church was closer (it is) but it may have been because of gender.

So, is your wife also interested in learning about the gospel?

[Grunt]

Just now, Carborendum said:

So, is your wife also interested in learning about the gospel?

Great question.  We discuss it often.  We both agreed we need to have "faith" in our life.  We both agreed it is important for our children.  We both agreed nothing we've encountered thus far in our search is in line with our way of thinking.  We both agreed we liked the values of your church as we understand them through our research.  We were both intrigued and comfortable with the message the missionaries delivered when they came a few weeks ago.   We were both concerned with the "cult" reputation mormons typically have.

I guess I'm the more motivated or interested of the family, but she certainly is as well.  She will probably ask to go to church next time I go.  When I scheduled the last missionary visits she asked that I do it when she is home, which is why I wish they'd come.  So we do discuss it and she does want to learn, she is just nervous to go.  I think she'll ask to go to church next time I attend.  I let her be as active in the process as she wants to be.  

[zil]

2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

A member of my bishopric is a state patrol man.  Often he has to work Sundays and can only attend during his hour "lunch" break.   He parks his police car outside, walks in with full police uniform on, conducts the meeting, and then drives off immediately afterwards.  I don't know if he carries during this time (and it's none of my business) but it is different and kind of cool. 

How can you not know if he's carrying?  Uniformed officers have a gun belt - the gun couldn't be more obvious...

[Jane_Doe]

3 minutes ago, zil said:

How can you not know if he's carrying?  Uniformed officers have a gun belt - the gun couldn't be more obvious...

Because I'm busy watching my 3 yo :).  

[zil]

2 hours ago, person0 said:

 I'm gonna have some pizza, and some coke!

That's just wrong.  Root beer with pizza, not Coke.  <sigh>

[mirkwood]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I thought @mirkwood said he was the Valiant 10 teacher.

I was released a month ago.  Now I'm Sunday School President.

[zil]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

@prisonchaplain,

Do you encourage or discourage your congregation to carry or not carry?  Or do you just not say anything?

  You do know he's a prison chaplain, right?

[Grunt]

8 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

I was released a month ago.  Now I'm Sunday School President.

When I heard them announce someone was "released" last Sunday, I thought they meant he was fired.  The missionaries had to explain it to me.

[Jane_Doe]

Just now, Grunt said:

When I heard them announce someone was "released" last Sunday, I thought they meant he was fired.  The missionaries had to explain it to me.

LOL.  Yeah, Mormon lingo takes a little getting used to.

[person0]

Just now, zil said:

That's just wrong.  Root beer with pizza, not Coke.  <sigh>

I'm sorry, for me, root beer is only good with vanilla ice cream.  Here is an info-graphic that shows the appropriate uses of root beer :

I will gladly acknowledge that a root beer float is in fact preferable to coke with nearly any meal, including pizza.  

[zil]

Just now, person0 said:

I'm sorry, for me, root beer is only good with vanilla ice cream.  Here is an info-graphic that shows the appropriate uses of root beer :

I will gladly acknowledge that a root beer float is in fact preferable to coke with nearly any meal, including pizza.  

You must never have had Henry Weinhard's Root Beer.  You poor thing.

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Out of curiosity, do you carry while at church?  Do you encourage or discourage your congregation to carry or not carry?  Or do you just not say anything?

Here in Colorado Springs, I went to a little get-together held by a little tiny church in a strip mall on stuff like this.  City cops gave a presentation on the various kinds of violence present in our community/state/country/culture, and what sorts of things people (and churches in strip malls) can do about it.  Lots of good information.  Having a skilled armed person present can be useful, but it's absolutely a last line of defense.  Lots of things should come before that.  Proper lighting, single point of entry, time of day meetings are held, good locks, not displaying valuables/cash, location, staff that practices situational awareness, thinking in terms of cover/concealment/barriers/exits, all of that is a rich tapestry of things you consider, and armed good guys are merely a thread of that tapestry.  

That said, probably 15-25% of adults in my current ward has their permits.  One poor sister was trying to find another sister interested in getting trained and permitted, and couldn't find one, because all the interested sisters already had their permits.  

And THAT said, LDS church policy on firearms is pretty clear: It's inappropriate to carry lethal weapons within the walls of churches dedicated to the worship of God, except as required by law enforcement.

AND THAT SAID, my current bishop is aware of a small handful of his flock who carry in church on Sundays, and he's basically ok with that.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, zil said:

  You do know he's a prison chaplain, right?

Actually, I thought that was only a part time gig.  I thought he had a ehr um civilian? congregation as well.

@prisonchaplain, did I not understand correctly?

Edited July 26, 2017 by Guest