Prisonchaplain Prepares Presentation on Mormonism

[prisonchaplain]

5 hours ago, Fether said:

@prisonchaplain did you forget to include the part that it is the only true church?

I figured that such was implied in the mention of the Great Apostasy/Restoration.

[prisonchaplain]

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I hope you don't take this as probing too much.  I'm wondering whether you consider us Christians.  I know your standard position about "letting people self-identify" as Christians.  That is certainly consistent and politically correct -- which I can appreciate.  But do "you" identify us as Christians?

I answer the question in this way:  There is not one LDS Article of Faith that I can fully agree with (even the letting others worship as their conscious dictates has implied the doctrine of eternal rewards -- heavenly kingdoms -- for non-Christians). Likewise, none of the 16 Fundamental Truths of the Assemblies of God would pass LDS doctrinal orthodoxy, if looked at in detail. Yet, we all claim to be led by the Holy Spirit. So, at least one of our groups is not hearing the Holy Spirit very well.  If so, then how wrong can we be and still be okay? The LDS answer includes three heavenly realms and the possibility of conversion after death. Traditional Christian teaching does not make those offers. So, I cannot judge any individual soul. I'll not condemn, nor shall I offer false assurances.  I can safely say that every active LDS person I have met is a God-seeker, and I believe I am accepted as such here. God can glean out the rest.

[prisonchaplain]

4 hours ago, zil said:

And now I'm curious again...  Is this to give these chaplains a basic understanding in case they need to minister to a Mormon, or...?

:Yes. Keep in mind also that, while the majority of chaplains are Protestant, there are also Catholics, Muslims, Jewish, and even one Buddhist chaplain.  This particular training is focused on Christian faith groups, but we also attend training for other faith traditions.

[prisonchaplain]

4 hours ago, zil said:

So does the Church.  I think maybe at one point LDS was preferred, but any more, we seem to be embracing "Mormon" (the term, not the man, well, unless some of us actually know a man named Mormon and happen to be embracing him, but that's a whole other discussion).

I'm guessing that the name is just so well know--plus, it's my impression that anti-Mormon material is on the wane--as is all 'cult watch' type activities.

[prisonchaplain]

56 minutes ago, wenglund said:

As an alternative, you could play Elder Oak's talk from last April General Conference,  titled: "The Godhead and the Plan of Salvation."

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Elder Oaks probably does not address the practice of Mormonism in a correctional setting, nor the importance of chaplains facilitating members obtaining sacred garments.

[wenglund]

27 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Elder Oaks probably does not address the practice of Mormonism in a correctional setting, nor the importance of chaplains facilitating members obtaining sacred garments.

That would be correct. However, it does provide an excellent summary of LDS beliefs, which is the specific point of your original post to which I was responding. 

As for practices of Mormonism in correctional settings or facilitating obtaining sacred garments, this is something that is designed to be handled by local church authorities rather than prison chaplains (see HERE), which is probably why there are few if any LDS prison chaplains, though there are many LDS military chaplains (see HERE and HERE).

In any case, I was simply hoping to help. Best of luck on your presentation.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[prisonchaplain]

2 hours ago, wenglund said:

As for practices of Mormonism in correctional settings or facilitating obtaining sacred garments, this is something that is designed to be handled by local church authorities rather than prison chaplains (see HERE), which is probably why there are few if any LDS prison chaplains, though there are many LDS military chaplains (see HERE and HERE).

 

 

First, you bigger point is valid. When possible, having an actual representative of a faith is ideal. I remember listening to a Rastafarian spiritual leader present, and it was compelling. However, I believe this session will be quite short, and so my second-best was to use official primary sourcing (lds.org and mormon.org). As for the narrow issue of facilitation, I believe it was LDS Family Services that served as the vendor in the case I was involved in. They and the inmate did most of the communicating. However, i was needed to authorize the item to come in, and assure other departments that all was kosher. 

[pam]

13 hours ago, zil said:

Interesting.  You'd think there would be in Utah, but I guess it's handled differently here - I know there are prison wards/branches here, but nothing else about them.

If I'm not mistaken there isn't actually a Federal prison or penitentiary in Utah.  There's the state prison.  

[mirkwood]

14 hours ago, laronius said:

So now we are finally getting to the truth about @Grunt. He wants a church that worships both Christ and green jello with carrots. I think its a match made in heaven (no pun intended).

I don't worship jello or vegetables!  Just one more false accusation!!!

[SilentOne]

14 hours ago, laronius said:

So now we are finally getting to the truth about @Grunt. He wants a church that worships both Christ and green jello with carrots. I think its a match made in heaven (no pun intended).

11 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

I don't worship jello or vegetables!  Just one more false accusation!!!

Of course we don't worship green jello. Just the carrots.

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by SilentOne

[zil]

@prisonchaplain, have you given your presentation yet?  If so, how did it go?  (Call me impatient, I won't mind. )

[Traveler]

 

 

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 2:04 PM, prisonchaplain said:

There are no federal prisons in Utah. Here's the map of federal prisons:  https://www.bop.gov/locations/map.jsp

When I looked at the map I saw a flag in Salt Lake City, Utah.  However, I am accused (very often) of seeing or interpreting things differently than everybody else.  No one else checked the link or sees the flag in Utah for a federal correctional facility?   Maybe I have a beautiful mind (reference to movie).

The one input I have for PC – we “Mormon’s” or LDS are a very different breed and I can understand why many traditional Christians realize we do not fit the mold of traditional Christianity.   One reason is – even though we have some very different doctrine – What defines us or sets us apart is our focus on covenant rather than so much on doctrine.  Our covenants are defined and established by ordinances.  Ordinances that can only be performed by someone ordained and authorized by Christ or an authorized priesthood holder.  The term “authorized” is well defined and structured within our organization that is built on a foundation of service without monetary compensation.  

This may be why there are no LDS prison chaplains – By covenant our priesthood holder are authorized to perform only ordinances prescribed through our priesthood covenants.  For example, we could not perform a non-LDS baptism.  We could administer to anyone according to their doctrine but we could not perform ordinances contrary to our priesthood covenants.

Hope this helps

 

The Traveler

Edited November 1, 2017 by Traveler

[zil]

33 minutes ago, Traveler said:

When I looked at the map I saw a flag in Salt Lake City, Utah.  However, I am accused (very often) of seeing or interpreting things differently than everybody else.  No one else checked the link or sees the flag in Utah for a federal correctional facility?   Maybe I have a beautiful mind (reference to movie).

Click the flag and it tells you what it is - it's not a prison, it's a "Residential Reentry Management (RRM) field office" - whatever that means.

[prisonchaplain]

3 hours ago, zil said:

Click the flag and it tells you what it is - it's not a prison, it's a "Residential Reentry Management (RRM) field office" - whatever that means.

I believe they deal with halfway houses.

[prisonchaplain]

@Traveler Thank you for the explanation of covenants. A couple of thoughts--first, there are LDS prison chaplains--just not in the federal system. I think you are aware that they serve with distinction in the military, as well. Second, chaplains are not obligated to administer sacraments outside of their faith tradition. For example, those chaplains who believe in "closed communion" (meaning that only MEMBERS of the specific denomination should be allowed to partake) would not be required to offer communion to non-members. Frankly, I believe that LDS would serve very well, given the theology about multiple levels of heavenly glory, the belief in opportunities for conversion after death, and the high view of human origin. 

[Traveler]

41 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

@Traveler Thank you for the explanation of covenants. A couple of thoughts--first, there are LDS prison chaplains--just not in the federal system. I think you are aware that they serve with distinction in the military, as well. Second, chaplains are not obligated to administer sacraments outside of their faith tradition. For example, those chaplains who believe in "closed communion" (meaning that only MEMBERS of the specific denomination should be allowed to partake) would not be required to offer communion to non-members. Frankly, I believe that LDS would serve very well, given the theology about multiple levels of heavenly glory, the belief in opportunities for conversion after death, and the high view of human origin. 

You are always good to talk with.  My personal experiences with LDS chaplains in the military was not that impressive.  But then there was not much in the military I found positive.  I also dealt with other chaplains in the military but that was some time ago and hopefully some things have improved.  It was very frustrating trying to explain why I did not like being referred to as either a Catholic or Protestant Christian.  I must guard against profiling those that profiled me.  You have been a great source of reference.  I could deal with a Chaplin of your cut.

I do appreciate and commend you and those like you that make an honest attempt to assist those that are religious.  I have found in my personal travels that interfacing with any devout believer that there is a G-d; is enlightening and a wonderful experience.  Dealing with clergy has been a whole different matter.  I would think that there is a barrier between LDS and any clergy like class in the military or prison system.  In LDS terms, we are all literal brothers and sisters.  Once we deal with one another at that demographic – I believe we open doors of understanding.  This is why I suggest that we quit thinking in terms of doctrines that divide us – but rather look out our covenants for common understanding. 

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

51 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I believe they deal with halfway houses.

I would think there is as much need there for a prison chaplain as anywhere else in the federal correctional system.

 

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

@Traveler  I cannot speak for all Evangelical clergy, but the label "minister" can be understood as helper. These days I draw the analogy from sports. Clergy are spiritual coaches--the members (laity) are the team players. Most of the big plays are done by the players. Most of the interviews and attention go to the players. We coaches smile and praise God when our players go out and make it happen.  As for your military experience, I'm wondering if it was the time you were in. I had a brief experience in the early 80s, and found that there were several soldiers who shouted out "LDS" when asked what religion they wanted on their dog tags. So, it's surprising that they would try to pigeon hole you.

On the matter of halfway houses, chaplains would not be necessary. The residents work outside during the day, attend nearby houses of worship, and check in at night. What is needed are mentors and faith communities willing to help bridge the gap between prison and community.  Aftercare is something we chaplains have known was needed for decades. Now, even the government realizes it. Re-entry has become something of a mantra in prison programming.

[prisonchaplain]

On 10/31/2017 at 3:44 PM, zil said:

@prisonchaplain, have you given your presentation yet?  If so, how did it go?  (Call me impatient, I won't mind. )

My role was to prepare the lesson plan and Power Point. The other chaplain in my institution is slated to attend the training, so I'll ask him how it went when he does (sometime in March). I did not receive a request for clarification or any questions/concerns, so I take silence as golden. :-)

Edited November 2, 2017 by prisonchaplain

[anatess2]

10 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

My role was to prepare the lesson plan and Power Point. The other chaplain in my institution is slated to attend the training, so I'll ask him how it went when he does (sometime in March). I did not receive a request for clarification or any questions/concerns, so I take silence as golden. :-)

Or he's still in denial that he's actually going to have to talk about them dang Mormons...

 

[wenglund]

On 10/27/2017 at 5:50 PM, prisonchaplain said:

First, you bigger point is valid. When possible, having an actual representative of a faith is ideal. I remember listening to a Rastafarian spiritual leader present, and it was compelling. However, I believe this session will be quite short, and so my second-best was to use official primary sourcing (lds.org and mormon.org). As for the narrow issue of facilitation, I believe it was LDS Family Services that served as the vendor in the case I was involved in. They and the inmate did most of the communicating. However, i was needed to authorize the item to come in, and assure other departments that all was kosher. 

It is my limited understanding that LDS Family Services provides professional services/resources (family counseling, addiction recovery, etc.), whereas the local Stake leaders are responsible for the ministerial services (conducting of church services, etc.) (see HERE). However, as perhaps in the case you were involved with, the local leadership of the church may have been unaware or not fully developed, so I appreciate you filling in. My point was to inform as to how things are designed to work in principle, though not always in practice.

If it is of help, there are several LDS videos related to Corrections and Incarceration. 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[prisonchaplain]

it was a few years ago, but the vendor was basically selling the sacred garments to the inmate. I thought LDS Family Services was that vendor, but I could be mistaken. It was certainly Salt Lake City-based, not local. The organization did the actual shipping of the garments to the jail. Once I verified that the items were authorized and correct, I delivered them to the inmate.

Edited November 9, 2017 by prisonchaplain

[wenglund]

On 11/8/2017 at 6:58 PM, prisonchaplain said:

it was a few years ago, but the vendor was basically selling the sacred garments to the inmate. I thought LDS Family Services was that vendor, but I could be mistaken. It was certainly Salt Lake City-based, not local. The organization did the actual shipping of the garments to the jail. Once I verified that the items were authorized and correct, I delivered them to the inmate.

The only vendors for garments I know of are  store.lds.org or Deseret Book or Distribution Services store, or Deseret Clothing. 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[prisonchaplain]

@wenglund It may have been because the inmate was incarcerated that he went through LDS Family Services, because I do not recognize any of the ones you listed.  I did find this in an LDS publication:  In collaboration with Welfare Services at church headquarters, LDS Family Services is responsible for materials and professional resources to assist those in correctional institutions and their families. For assistance, contact LDS Correctional Services