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On 9/21/2018 at 5:23 PM, MormonGator said:

Off topic- In American history (and probably world history) if you look at the birth statistics t's somewhat surprising how many births happened before nine months into a marriage. We'd like to think all our ancestors were super virtuous and holier than we are, but that isn't the case by a long shot. 

Also British history. For some reason at some point they made single mom’s explain how they got pregnant when they admitted single mom’s into the workhouse during Dicken’s time. Sad but sometimes defiant stories.

Edited by Sunday21

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No way will they get rid of Primary!!! Ever...until the Second Coming!!

I would like to see the seminary playing field leveled. Right now in Utah and other Western States the kids get professional  seminary teachers. Teaching IS their job. They are trained and have chosen that field because it's what they want to do. They have a passion for it.  My two kids that got to experience released time seminary in Idaho loved it.  My kids that have had or now have early morning seminary- not so much. I imagine there are some "called" EM teachers who are passionate and excellent teachers who love the calling. But for the most part, it has been a real drag. It's what a few people are doing because they can't say no to the stake pres when he asks.  Too early for teenagers who are so incredibly busy. It's not healthy. 

I would also love to see a BYU on the East coast. BYU Provo is getting too competitive and nearly impossible to get in.  I'd say at least 2/3 of the LDS kids out here on the east coast want to go to BYU but with EM seminary, very rigorous high schools and crazy zealous coaches who demand a lot, it's harder for them to keep their grades high enough to get in. Only a few from our ward have gotten in and they are really smart kids. Granted some have gone to BYU-I and BYU-H but only because they didn't get accepted to Provo. One of my daughters went to Southern Virginia for EFY this summer. I always thought that would be a great option for college till I went and visited. There is almost nothing to do in the town and it's a very old ( musty) and very small campus.  So I'm not going to push any more of my kids to go there unless it's bought by the church and the campus upgraded significantly. That would be exciting and a real blessing to many.

And I'll pitch in my two cents for 2 hour church. Shorten Sacrament meeting to 60 min instead of 75.  And combine all the youth for SS- perhaps alternating weeks with YM/YW lessons.  Right now our kids are getting the same lesson twice every Sunday because the SS and Youth lessons are all coming out of the Come Follow Me manual on the same schedule. It's redundant!  Kids roll their eyes at it. Adults same- meet together for SS one week and Priesthood and RS the next.  Primary would just be on a shortened split schedule of 30 min singing and 30 min lesson. 

There you have it!   

Edited by carlimac

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2 hours ago, carlimac said:

 

And I'll pitch in my two cents for 2 hour church. Shorten Sacrament meeting to 60 min instead of 75. 

???

First time I've heard Sacrament Meeting is 75 minutes.  It's 60 in my ward.  Gospel Doctrine is 50 and RS is 50.  They give 10 minutes between blocks for people to go from one room to another, go to the restroom, etc. etc.

Edited by anatess2

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6 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

???

First time I've heard Sacrament Meeting is 75 minutes.  It's 60 in my ward.  Gospel Doctrine is 50 and RS is 50.  They give 10 minutes between blocks for people to go from one room to another, go to the restroom, etc. etc.

Norm is 70 + 10 + 40 + 10 + 50

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/meetings-in-the-church?lang=eng

Anything else is a local change.

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5 minutes ago, zil said:

Norm is 70 + 10 + 40 + 10 + 50

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/meetings-in-the-church?lang=eng

Anything else is a local change.

We only do 70 during F&T Sunday.  Whoever is conducting the meeting announces before the first person comes up when we plan the meeting to end and he usually says "10 minutes past the hour".

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11 hours ago, anatess2 said:

???

First time I've heard Sacrament Meeting is 75 minutes.  It's 60 in my ward.  Gospel Doctrine is 50 and RS is 50.  They give 10 minutes between blocks for people to go from one room to another, go to the restroom, etc. etc.

Isn't it fun to learn things about how other wards function? Ours is 70-75. We sing all verses of every song. We are a small community and a very social ward so passing time is closer to 20 min than 10. And we have a small building/ growing ward so navigating the hallways between hours is a slow process. We have no librarian- it's  a serve yourself library so that means waiting behind me to copy things as I bumble around with the machine. We are trying to conform to two adults in every classroom so that has many people with many callings running around just trying to keep it together.  Anatess you should come run our ward. Things would function better I'm sure. 😉 But I'm quite sure you would butt heads with our Stake President (who is in our ward). I don't want to think about what would happen if you clashed with him.   🙈😁

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19 minutes ago, carlimac said:

Isn't it fun to learn things about how other wards function? Ours is 70-75. We sing all verses of every song. We are a small community and a very social ward so passing time is closer to 20 min than 10. And we have a small building/ growing ward so navigating the hallways between hours is a slow process. We have no librarian- it's  a serve yourself library so that means waiting behind me to copy things as I bumble around with the machine. We are trying to conform to two adults in every classroom so that has many people with many callings running around just trying to keep it together.  Anatess you should come run our ward. Things would function better I'm sure. 😉 But I'm quite sure you would butt heads with our Stake President (who is in our ward). I don't want to think about what would happen if you clashed with him.   🙈😁

It is indeed interesting how different wards function.  My ward is good sized (~120-150 adults there weekly) but being in a college town things fluctuate a lot with different move-in's, move-out's etc (a third of our ward leaves every May and a new third moves back in August).  The numerical majority of the ward is younger people (easily half the adults 30 or below) who aren't afraid to draw outside of the box in how to do things, are energetic and innovative.  

But then there is a numerically small percentage of the ward that's the "old guard" (referring both to age and their length of time in the ward), and they hold a disproportionally high amount of predominate callings simply because... well frankly it's hard to have a Bishop who's only going to be around for 9 months.    In contrast to the younger folks, the old guard a very tradition bound.  They feel that the old ways are best, that the old ways are tried and true, and "why fix something that's not broken?".   The current bishop especially is a "by the book" old gaurd.

Because of this split dynamic, my ward is... interesting when it comes to all these changes over the last year.  Numerical majority are the younger folks and they're all excited about it, wanting to put the pedal to the medal.  Old guard in leadership positions... ask "why are we fixing what's not broken?" and really struggle with it.  In so much that we've even had special lessons on "How not to be afraid of change" (literally the topic of the lesson).  Like for the new ministering program, they did a great job sending surveys out asking "how do you want to do things?" and got really great feedback on how to best serve the needs of our quirky ward (at least it looked like great feedback from my side-lines perspective).   But then... other folks got scared and backed down from the innovation and put in a program which is pretty much identical to HT/VT- down to handing out slips of paper.  

It was... honestly I was kind of disappointed.  But... I do think things will eventually come around.  This next General Conference and our new stake leadership will help things along.  I've learned a big lesson myself on...*Jane searches for words*.... being patient with people, and forgiving of their weaknesses, and taking a piece of humble pie myself.  

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2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

a program which is pretty much identical to HT/VT- down to handing out slips of paper.  

Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with handing out slips of paper...and how would you expect ministering assignments to be given?

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1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with handing out slips of paper...and how would you expect ministering assignments to be given?

In of itself nothing, but it did vividly bring to mind Sis. Bingham's talk--

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2018/04/ministering-as-the-savior-does?lang=eng

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1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

In of itself nothing, but it did vividly bring to mind Sis. Bingham's talk--

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2018/04/ministering-as-the-savior-does?lang=eng

I'd say the word "just" is pretty key in that statement. Though I expect your view is that's what happened in your ward. "Just".

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My guess is that some time in the future, probably still some way off yet, when there has been a great deal more deterioration of social and government structures than what we have presently seen, organised church meetings in a chapel will become a rarity. Reaching that point will probably be a gradual process, and I suspect that process would start with a lessening, or shortening of church meetings, coupled with a reduction in the number of administrative/organisational meetings. I think this trend started in the late 1970's when the consolidated meeting block program was introduced. It continued with the gradual decline in the number or organisational and administrative meetings held during the week and the increase in holding administrative meetings on Sunday. Perhaps the next step would be a reduction from 3 to 2 hours in the current meeting schedule. Technology could facilitate this process, making face-to-face meetings less important, and making it easier for people all around the world to hear directly from apostles and prophets through global broadcasts. The family is the most important structure, and I think there may come a time when the church comes into, and becomes part of the family, rather than the family going to church. This approach would be consistent with the principle of spiritual self reliance. It would also be consistent with the idea of the "family filter" that seemed to be emphasised a few years ago. Perhaps in an ideal world our spiritual well-being and commitment to the gospel would not be dependent on the extent or nature of our involvement in church activities and attendance. As  I mentioned, reaching this point would be a gradual process, and perhaps a reduction in meeting times would be a step in that process. 

Edited by askandanswer

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On 9/22/2018 at 6:21 AM, Grunt said:

I'm just practicing for when my wife gets home.

 

If you still need to practice, perhaps you haven't been doing it enough, or perhaps you haven't been married too long. Eventually things can get to the point where it becomes automatic rather than practiced. :)

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56 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

My guess is that some time in the future, probably still some way off yet, when there has been a great deal more deterioration of social and government structures than what we have presently seen, organised church meetings in a chapel will become a rarity. Reaching that point will probably be a gradual process, and I suspect that process would start with a lessening, or shortening of church meetings, coupled with a reduction in the number of administrative/organisational meetings. I think this trend started in the late 1970's when the consolidated meeting block program was introduced. It continued with the gradual decline in the number or organisational and administrative meetings held during the week and the increase in holding administrative meetings on Sunday. Perhaps the next step would be a reduction from 3 to 2 hours in the current meeting schedule. Technology could facilitate this process, making face-to-face meetings less important, and making it easier for people all around the world to hear directly from apostles and prophets through global broadcasts. The family is the most important structure, and I think there may come a time when the church comes into, and becomes part of the family, rather than the family going to church. This approach would be consistent with the principle of spiritual self reliance. It would also be consistent with the idea of the "family filter" that seemed to be emphasised a few years ago. Perhaps in an ideal world our spiritual well-being and commitment to the gospel would not be dependent on the extent or nature of our involvement in church activities and attendance. As  I mentioned, reaching this point would be a gradual process, and perhaps a reduction in meeting times would be a step in that process. 

I disagree. Fellowship with the Saints has been a vital part of the Lord's kingdom since Jesus himself established his Church. I don't see that changing, ever.

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Fellowship with the Saints can continue quite independently of a 3 hour meeting block or chapels. Its nice, but not necessary for salvation, and I think a time might come when the niceties will have to be put aside and when it will take all of our efforts just to keep up with the necessities. Mosiah 18:17 gives the impression - and that's all it does, it only gives an impression - that the Nephites didn't have an organised church structure until about 145 BC. 

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A while ago everyone discussed how the Lord would appear in the year 2000.  Many expected this would happen. Some religions had people prophesy that they Lord would come in that year.  People planned for it.  People expected it to happen.  Not everyone thought this, but some.  They expected great disasters and fiascos.  The Year 2000 came and went.  What they expected did not happen.

Conference is just around the corner.  Most of the time speculation of changes are just that, speculation. 

IF this speculation of a shorter block occurs (and it probably has been discussed by the Brethren I expect, perhaps even in depth and multiple times) it will probably be for multiple reasons.  One reason would be dealing with the increased number of wards in certain church buildings.  In some locations we have 3 or 4 wards meeting.  This causes meetings that start at 3, 4, or at times even later in the afternoon and evening.  This means that some are not getting out until a really late hour comparatively, and also starts limiting firesides and other events at those buildings. 

The solution could be to build more buildings (but the church IS on a saving roll right now, despite seeming on a spending splurge building temples, thus more wards are meeting in fewer buildings in some locations) and in some areas they are doing just that.

The other solution could be to have more meet in buildings.  This creates the situation above.

Another solution could be to have shorter meeting times, but that is NOT necessarily what will happen.

Everything about a shorter block is SPECULATION, including the idea that this would mean LESS church.  It does not remove the necessity of Primary or other church meetings.  It could simply mean they go back to an older policy where meetings were at separate times, or a hybrid of that older policy with the newer policy of the three hour block.

However, as we are not informed and really have not idea about what decisions will be made, I'm not sure what all the excitement is about as of right now.  Conference is right around the corner and once it occurs we will KNOW what policy changes (if any) will be made.  If a policy change is made, we will also know WHAT form it will take (for example, a shorter block does NOT necessarily mean LESS meetings, it may, in fact, mean MORE meetings...who knows?  Beyond the Prophet of course).

Give it a few weeks and there will be no need to speculate or even wonder if any policy changes have been made or what was done.

Edited by JohnsonJones

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50 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

Fellowship with the Saints can continue quite independently of a 3 hour meeting block or chapels. Its nice, but not necessary for salvation, and I think a time might come when the niceties will have to be put aside and when it will take all of our efforts just to keep up with the necessities. Mosiah 18:17 gives the impression - and that's all it does, it only gives an impression - that the Nephites didn't have an organised church structure until about 145 BC. 

There are many families that don't have the priesthood to administer the sacrament in their homes.

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10 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Aren't the keys to preside over sacrament held by the Bishop, or am I way off base?

I think so. I don't know how it works now but I have vague memories of a few times when I was growing up when we had the sacrament in a smallish group out in nature. It may have been a on vacation or something where a bishop was present. 

Edited by carlimac

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1 minute ago, carlimac said:

 

I think so. I don't know how it works now but I have vague memories of a few times when I was growing up when we had the sacrament in a smallish group out in nature. It may have been a on vacation or something where a bishop was present. 

I'm not sure if he has to be present, but I thought it had to be authorized. 

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What I would like to see change?  An emphasis on fellowshipping neighbors. I feel like we don't emphasize visitors to our services or activities enough.  I would love to see 20% of the congregation be visitors/non-members.  We get so cliquish.  Also, it always bothered me that we have a "visitors Welcome" sign but no sign telling you what time the services are.  How are visitors supposed to know when to come, other than when a bunch of cars are in the parking lot?

 

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