Same-Sex Issues

[wsmrm196]

If two people of the same sex kiss, do they need to talk to their bishop?

[NeuroTypical]

The general answer to all "should someone talk to their bishop if" questions, is pretty much always yes.  If it's a question in someone's mind, they should go talk to their bishop.

 

[Guest MormonGator]

25 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

The general answer to all "should someone talk to their bishop if" questions, is pretty much always yes.  If it's a question in someone's mind, they should go talk to their bishop.

 

Amen. 

it's a cliche to say this, but confession really is good for the soul. Your bishop is there to help you, not harm you. 

[Fether]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

Amen. 

it's a cliche to say this, but confession really is good for the soul. Your bishop is there to help you, not harm you. 

I’m pretty sure section 20 of the Doctrine and Covenants says “and the Bishop’s duty is to punish, belittle, and ostrosize those that so much as steal a snickers from the local 7-11”

but in al honesty... there are a lot of buts,   Caveats, and justifications you could throw in, but if the question “should I tell the bishop” comes up, it’s pretty much a trump card for “yes, tell the bishop”

[pam]

On 3/14/2019 at 6:24 PM, NeuroTypical said:

The general answer to all "should someone talk to their bishop if" questions, is pretty much always yes.  If it's a question in someone's mind, they should go talk to their bishop.

 

Yep exactly.  I always say if it concerns you enough to come ask random people on the internet, just go talk to your Bishop who is the one that has stewardship over you.  He is the only one that can really answer that.

[Traveler]

So much for reading the scriptures on your own to find answers to questions:

2 Corinthians 13:12

 

The Traveler

[ephedra]

On 3/14/2019 at 3:05 PM, wsmrm196 said:

If two people of the same sex kiss, do they need to talk to their bishop?

I am not too sure there are any rules against this. It is said we are to obey the law of chastity. Is kissing violating that? Probably not. I have never heard of a straight up kiss requiring a confession to the bishop. As for the same sex/ gay thing. Probably the same rule applies. Have not heard any different. As soon as you leave first base as in hetero relationships then I guess confession is in order. Go ask. You may have a whole new problem on your hands esp if your parents don't know so there's that too. I imagine most bishops will tell your parents if you are a minor.

You may want to approach your parents first if you are a minor. Growing up in a home with bishop and on up level priesthood, I can tell you my father grew rather tired of people lined up to confess stuff that didn't need to. It is an education issue. Im thinking no need but others may think yes go see him bases on the same sex aspect. No one really went there.

Edited March 19, 2019 by ephedra

[anatess2]

8 hours ago, ephedra said:

I am not too sure there are any rules against this. It is said we are to obey the law of chastity. Is kissing violating that? Probably not. I have never heard of a straight up kiss requiring a confession to the bishop.

This is so Clintonesque... "depends on what the meaning of the word IS is..."

The Law of Chastity is as much what is in your heart as how it got manifested.  Repentance is about a change of heart, which would manifest to changing the action.  So, it is rarely about "just kissing".  It is ALWAYS the heart of the matter.  But yes, repentance doesn't always have to involve the Bishop especially for kids with parents presiding over the household.  The change of heart can be made to happen within one's diligent and sincere repentance within one's self or with the help of their parents.  But when one and one's parents need help with the change of heart - or one doesn't understand what needs to be changed or why it needs to be changed - that's when the bishop can be helpful with his power of discernment in his stewardship over the ward.

[ephedra]

44 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

This is so Clintonesque... "depends on what the meaning of the word IS is..."

The Law of Chastity is as much what is in your heart as how it got manifested.  Repentance is about a change of heart, which would manifest to changing the action.  So, it is rarely about "just kissing".  It is ALWAYS the heart of the matter.  But yes, repentance doesn't always have to involve the Bishop especially for kids with parents presiding over the household.  The change of heart can be made to happen within one's diligent and sincere repentance within one's self or with the help of their parents.  But when one and one's parents need help with the change of heart - or one doesn't understand what needs to be changed or why it needs to be changed - that's when the bishop can be helpful with his power of discernment in his stewardship over the ward.

Ok so a boy and girl kiss after a date. A kiss.  

So now we need the intervention of a bishop? Nice throwback to clinton. The op asked about a kiss, nothing else.  I suspect you are likely more concerned with the same sex part. Note I left that part open as I’m not sure the loc states two Mormon people of the same sex absolutely are not allowed to kiss. 

According to this link below, homosexual behavior is a sin and stipulates members so inclined are ok so long as they don’t violate the loc. The loc states in regards to kissing that “ passionate kissing” is a violation. Seems like just a plain old kiss even for gays is ok. 

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-39-the-law-of-chastity?lang=eng

Edited March 19, 2019 by ephedra

[anatess2]

15 minutes ago, ephedra said:

Ok so a boy and girl kiss after a date. A kiss.  

So now we need the intervention of a bishop? Nice throwback to clinton. The op asked about a kiss, nothing else.  I suspect you are likely more concerned with the same sex part. Note I left that part open as I’m not sure the loc states two Mormon people of the same sex absolutely are not allowed to kiss. 

One more time.  This is not about the kiss.

And here's another tip:  If you live your spiritual life by "what is allowed and what is not allowed" without understanding WHY it is not allowed or allowed, you're going to end up leaving an ox in the pit on the Sabbath.

Edited March 19, 2019 by anatess2

[Guest Mores]

14 minutes ago, ephedra said:

Ok so a boy and girl kiss after a date. A kiss.  

So now we need the intervention of a bishop? Nice throwback to clinton. The op asked about a kiss, nothing else.  I suspect you are likely more concerned with the same sex part. Note I left that part open as I’m not sure the loc states two Mormon people of the same sex absolutely are not allowed to kiss. 

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

One more time.  This is not about the kiss.

And here's another tip:  If you live your spiritual life by "what is allowed and what is not allowed" without understanding WHY it is not allowed or allowed, you're going to end up leaving a cow in the quagmire on the Sabbath.

Actually, I was told by a stake president in my youth that it was indeed about the kiss.  Not that it is necessarily a law of chastity violation, but that we kiss as a token of affection.  If a kiss is extended to be sexually arousing, then it is something you need to hold off on until marriage.  This goes for both hetero and homosexual relationships.

[ephedra]

2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

One more time.  This is not about the kiss.

And here's another tip:  If you live your spiritual life by "what is allowed and what is not allowed" without understanding WHY it is not allowed or allowed, you're going to end up leaving a cow in the quagmire on the Sabbath.

So what is it about? The op asked about a sane sex kiss. Are you saying go see the bishop because it was with another person of the same sex? 

Did you not kiss your spouse before you were married ( if u are)?

[ephedra]

Just now, Mores said:

Actually, I was told by a stake president in my youth that it was indeed about the kiss.  Not that it is necessarily a law of chastity violation, but that we kiss as a token of affection.  If a kiss is extended to be sexually arousing, then it is something you need to hold off on until marriage.  This goes for both hetero and homosexual relationships.

So Mormons are now not allowed to kiss prior to marriage? Nonsense

[Guest Mores]

10 minutes ago, ephedra said:

So Mormons are now not allowed to kiss prior to marriage? Nonsense

Of course that is nonsense.  Good thing I didn't say that.  And neither did my stake president.

[ephedra]

If y’all are saying this is about the same sex issue than just say it. There is nowhere in our loc guidance that states a kiss is a violation. “Passionate kissing” yes. I think we ought not be making up fake rules. I’ve been Mormon for half a century in the corridor and never heard such nonsense.

 

[anatess2]

5 minutes ago, ephedra said:

So what is it about? The op asked about a sane sex kiss. Are you saying go see the bishop because it was with another person of the same sex? 

Did you not kiss your spouse before you were married ( if u are)?

It is about what's in the heart.  The WHY of the kiss.

I'll give you a silly example to illustrate what I'm trying to say.  So, there's this guy and figured out that if he is with some girl, he's going to feel that "butterfly sensation" in his neither parts so he thinks to himself, "ephedra says kissing doesn't break the Law of Chastity" so he goes and passionately kisses 12 girls everyday because each girl only wants to kiss him for no longer than 5 minutes and he wants to feel that thing for at least an hour.

As you can see... it is not about "thou shalt not kiss".

[Guest Mores]

Just now, ephedra said:

I’ve been Mormon for half a century in the corridor and never heard such nonsense.

Good thing you're not one anymore.

[Vort]

10 minutes ago, ephedra said:

So Mormons are now not allowed to kiss prior to marriage? Nonsense

I kissed my father; I kiss my sons. It was and is a token of affection, with no sexual overtones. Same-sex kissing per se is not an issue. I kiss my wife; I kissed my girlfriend (before I married her). It was an is a token of affection, with distinct sexual overtones. Same-sex kissing like that is certainly an issue.

Seriously, does this really have to be explicitly pointed out? Is this not so obvious as not to need to be stated openly?

[ephedra]

Just now, Mores said:

Of course that is nonsense.  Good thing I didn't say that.  And neither did my stake president.

“ I was told by a stake president in my youth that it was indeed about the kiss.”.

That quote is from your post, you did say that

[anatess2]

14 minutes ago, Mores said:

Actually, I was told by a stake president in my youth that it was indeed about the kiss.  Not that it is necessarily a law of chastity violation, but that we kiss as a token of affection.  If a kiss is extended to be sexually arousing, then it is something you need to hold off on until marriage.  This goes for both hetero and homosexual relationships.

You just contradicted yourself here.  You just said it right here... this is not about the kiss but about the why of the kiss.

[ephedra]

Just now, Mores said:

Good thing you're not one anymore.

What is that supposed to mean?

[Guest Mores]

Just now, ephedra said:

“ I was told by a stake president in my youth that it was indeed about the kiss.”.

That quote is from your post, you did say that

I also said:

15 minutes ago, Mores said:

Not that it is necessarily a law of chastity violation...

 

[Guest Mores]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

You just contradicted yourself here.  You just said it right here... this is not about the kiss but about the why of the kiss.

You can certainly look at it that way.  To me it was the "how" and the results of the kiss.  Any way you look at it, it is "the kiss" in the same way as the old song goes "It's in his kiss."

[Guest Mores]

5 minutes ago, ephedra said:

What is that supposed to mean?

Which word did you not understand?

[anatess2]

9 minutes ago, Mores said:

You can certainly look at it that way.  To me it was the "how" and the results of the kiss.  Any way you look at it, it is "the kiss" in the same way as the old song goes "It's in his kiss."

I think my point is going whooosh over your head.