Plein Air

Push for Utah to mandate statewide mask wearing

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14 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Oh yeah... "majority" of doctors also claim gender differences is a social construct... and prepubescent hormone therapy is awesome... and hydrochloroquine will kill you.... and rambunctious boys should take ritalin...

And just so you know... new boxes of surgical masks itself has a caution - will not prevent corona virii.

And here's a logic question - if homemade masks prevent transmission by (as falsely claimed) 80%... why are cities with mask ordinances from May still have comparable infection rates?  And why did cities release people out of prison instead of making prisoners wear masks?  And why are cities with mandated mask ordinances still put "non-essential" businesses and public parks and libraries on lock down?

And just because you're conservative does not make the point of "government mandates not followed by government personnel who demanded the mandate" disappear.

Nobody is telling you to stop wearing your mask.  We are telling you to stop gaslighting people who choose not to wear one.

You seem to be in the mood for an argument against a straw man. I however am in the mood for a lovely day with my daughter free of contention. Therefore have a blessed day.

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30 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

You seem to be in the mood for an argument against a straw man.    

What strawman?

30 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

 I however am in the mood for a lovely day with my daughter free of contention. Therefore have a blessed day.

Ohhh... if somebody sits on the other side of your discussion table then we are in contention.  I thought conservatives have no use for safe spaces.  I guess mask-wearing is how the progressives has dragged conservatives into their virtue signaling methods.

 

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12 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

What strawman?

Ohhh... if somebody sits on the other side of your discussion table then we are in contention.  I thought conservatives have no use for safe spaces.  I guess mask-wearing is how the progressives has dragged conservatives into their virtue signaling methods.

 

Not really. I answered your question as to why I wear a mask. You want to argue about it. I could dive into google, throw out a whole bunch of research that supports my viewpoint. You'd do the same. 100 posts and 2 hours later neither of us will have succeeded in convincing the other one of anything. We will pat ourselves on the back and brag to our friends about how we totally owned this random person online. I'm not interested in having a pointless argument today. I'm sure you can find 100 million other people ready to throw down with you about this on any site you care to visit. I'm just not one of them.

Edited by Midwest LDS

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5 hours ago, anatess2 said:

@MormonGator, @JohnsonJones, @Midwest LDS

And here's proof that the authorities that are mandating the masks are full of excrement:

 

Politicians tend to be hypocritical...so nothing new there...

3 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Oh yeah... "majority" of doctors also claim gender differences is a social construct... and prepubescent hormone therapy is awesome... and hydrochloroquine will kill you.... and rambunctious boys should take ritalin...

That's an interesting take on the gender differences...and while it is actually true that it is a social construct in many ways, the way many see it is not.  I'm not sure how to explain it right off, plus it probably is lengthy enough to be another thread.

I'd say there could be different points of view, one of which you mention which I assume you disagree with, and one which I assume you would agree with regarding boys, girls, and gender.

3 hours ago, anatess2 said:

And just so you know... new boxes of surgical masks itself has a caution - will not prevent corona virii.

And here's a logic question - if homemade masks prevent transmission by (as falsely claimed) 80%... why are cities with mask ordinances from May still have comparable infection rates?  And why did cities release people out of prison instead of making prisoners wear masks?  And why are cities with mandated mask ordinances still put "non-essential" businesses and public parks and libraries on lock down?

And just because you're conservative does not make the point of "government mandates not followed by government personnel who demanded the mandate" disappear.

Nobody is telling you to stop wearing your mask.  We are telling you to stop gaslighting people who choose not to wear one.

Short answer, the one the media doesn't want to touch upon...Protests.

A mask, like a seatbelt may offer some protection, but it's not going to stop injury if you ignore all other safety measures and ram your car into a concrete barrier at 120 MPH (193KPH) right at the edge of a 1000 foot drop which when your car jumps the barrier due to the speed, you also fall into.  A mask is not a magical spell which makes one immune, it simply offers some protection when used with other measures (social distancing, etc).

That said, I'm not a doctor, so I don't know all the exact percentages a mask will or will not help.  However, using your number you presented above (and I think that's a BIG IF), if it only helps prevent 20% transmission, that's still a significant enough percent that I'll use a mask.  With Social distancing it will increase my odds.

On the otherhand, if we go to in class instruction this fall, I fully expect that I'll have the Corona virus within a month if I haven't had it already, even IF I wear a mask and we social distance (studies that I've seen show that if you are inside for over 15 minutes, that the recirculated air and other items increase your risk.  With hour to 1 1/2 hour long classes, I'd say it's almost a guarantee that I'm going to get it eventually, with or without a mask).

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2 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

That said, I'm not a doctor, so I don't know all the exact percentages a mask will or will not help.  However, using your number you presented above (and I think that's a BIG IF), if it only helps prevent 20% transmission, that's still a significant enough percent that I'll use a mask.  With Social distancing it will increase my odds.

I have presented OSHA regulations, several studies, etc. etc. dated PRIOR to the politicization of covid-19 that shows you that RESPIRATORS stop airborn virii, disposable surgical masks can stop fluid-born virii while cloth masks are ineffective.  Reusable cloth masks only prevent transmission in 3% of the cases in the study and provide a higher risk of OTHER health risks such as accumulation of moisture in the mask that increases the risk of bacterial infection as well as a reduction of O2 content of inhalation (lower than the OSHA requirement even).

 

2 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

On the otherhand, if we go to in class instruction this fall, I fully expect that I'll have the Corona virus within a month if I haven't had it already, even IF I wear a mask and we social distance (studies that I've seen show that if you are inside for over 15 minutes, that the recirculated air and other items increase your risk.  With hour to 1 1/2 hour long classes, I'd say it's almost a guarantee that I'm going to get it eventually, with or without a mask).

You keep on saying this.  Tests are available nationwide.  You should get tested if you think you have it.  In any case, this is a VIRUS.  We call prolific videos Viral Videos for a reason - you can't stop it from spreading.  I have found it such a product of our Clown World for the panic to focus every waking second on stopping a viral infection rather than SURVIVING a viral infection.

 

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3 hours ago, Midwest LDS said:

Not really. I answered your question as to why I wear a mask. You want to argue about it. I could dive into google, throw out a whole bunch of research that supports my viewpoint. You'd do the same. 100 posts and 2 hours later neither of us will have succeeded in convincing the other one of anything. We will pat ourselves on the back and brag to our friends about how we totally owned this random person online. I'm not interested in having a pointless argument today. I'm sure you can find 100 million other people ready to throw down with you about this on any site you care to visit. I'm just not one of them.

I never "argued with you about it".  I tagged you on the OSHA guidelines and several studies that shows that before the politicization of the covid-19 pandemic OSHA plus several other studies which I all linked shows Respirators is what you need to stop an airborn virus, disposable surgical masks is what you need to stop a fluid-born contaminant, and reusable cloth masks does you more harm than good.  As a matter of fact, WHO and the CDC issued an article back in March that mask use in the general public is inefective and while N95 masks are marginally effective, they should be reserved for fronliners.

In any case, you can present your doctors if you like.  The fact remains that the issue of home made face masks actually stopping an infection rather than just giving you a psychological feeling of safety is DEFINITELY not scientifically proven and therefore, MormonGator's Virtue Signaling Doctor meme that you liked is nothing but that - a Virtue Signaling Meme. 

Which brings me to the main point of this thread - government mandates, especially on something without the backing of solid science, should be avoided as much as possible.  And to reiterate:  You can wear your mask.  But it is not good to gaslight others to wear one by posting virtue signaling memes.

Edited by anatess2

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9 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

You keep on saying this.  Tests are available nationwide.  You should get tested if you think you have it.  In any case, this is a VIRUS.  We call prolific videos Viral Videos for a reason - you can't stop it from spreading.  I have found it such a product of our Clown World for the panic to focus every waking second on stopping a viral infection rather than SURVIVING a viral infection.

 

I think I may have had it, but it would be past tense.  I would need an antibody test for this.  The local Hospital and clinics which I go to have said that these test are not currently available in my situation (I'm still healthy for example).

It would be reassuring to know though.  If I haven't had it, and it is as bad as they say, I could be in a rough ride I the fall.

On the otherhand, if I've already had it, I was lucky as I didn't have it severe enough to get hospitalized currently, which is a good thing.

The problem is, there is no way for me to find out currently.

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1 minute ago, JohnsonJones said:

I think I may have had it, but it would be past tense.  I would need an antibody test for this.  The local Hospital and clinics which I go to have said that these test are not currently available in my situation (I'm still healthy for example).

It would be reassuring to know though.  If I haven't had it, and it is as bad as they say, I could be in a rough ride I the fall.

On the otherhand, if I've already had it, I was lucky as I didn't have it severe enough to get hospitalized currently, which is a good thing.

The problem is, there is no way for me to find out currently.

Did you watch the video?  I highly recommend watching it to the very end.

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46 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I never "argued with you about it".  I tagged you on the OSHA guidelines and several studies that shows that before the politicization of the covid-19 pandemic OSHA plus several other studies which I all linked shows Respirators is what you need to stop an airborn virus, disposable surgical masks is what you need to stop a fluid-born contaminant, and reusable cloth masks does you more harm than good.  As a matter of fact, WHO and the CDC issued an article back in March that mask use in the general public is inefective and while N95 masks are marginally effective, they should be reserved for fronliners.

In any case, you can present your doctors if you like.  The fact remains that the issue of home made face masks actually stopping an infection rather than just giving you a psychological feeling of safety is DEFINITELY not scientifically proven and therefore, MormonGator's Virtue Signaling Doctor meme that you liked is nothing but that - a Virtue Signaling Meme. 

Which brings me to the main point of this thread - government mandates, especially on something without the backing of solid science, should be avoided as much as possible.  And to reiterate:  You can wear your mask.  But it is not good to gaslight others to wear one by posting virtue signaling memes.

I obviously disagree with you about masks, but we do have one point we share a common belief about. I don't believe it should be mandated by the government either. Government mandates are impossible to properly enforce, usually grossly oversimplify the problem, and lead to further lawlessness when people realize the can get away in mass with breaking the mandate (see the failure of Prohibition).

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16 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

I obviously disagree with you about masks, but we do have one point we share a common belief about. I don't believe it should be mandated by the government either. Government mandates are impossible to properly enforce, usually grossly oversimplify the problem, and lead to further lawlessness when people realize the can get away in mass with breaking the mandate (see the failure of Prohibition).

Only one point?  You don't believe that virtue signaling masks is bad as well?

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8 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

It's not virtue signaling if I legitimately believe it's better to wear masks. I do and I don't mind telling people that.

Saying why you believe masks is a good thing and encouraging others to do so is one thing.  Saying that, "I can wear a mask, you can too" like that tweet you liked implying that those who don't wear masks are just whiners and that wearing a mask is the ONLY right thing to do, or "Wearing a mask shows you care about other people", implying that you don't care about other people if you're not wearing a mask, or... what my friend did to my husband - called him a disgusting human being because he posted a joke about Braveheart shouting Freedom from the mask mandate... is the stupidity we are now in with this social media mask culture.

Edited by anatess2

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1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

Saying why you believe masks is a good thing and encouraging others to do so is one thing.  Saying that, "I can wear a mask, you can too" like that tweet you liked, or "Wearing a mask shows you care about other people", implying that you don't care about other people if you're not wearing a mask, or... what my friend did to my husband - called him a disgusting human being because he posted a joke about Braveheart shouting Freedom from the mask mandate... is the stupidity we are now in with this social media mask culture.

I can see why you might be upset by that. I agreed with the sentiment of the post which is why I liked it. I can, and do, believe most people should wear masks. However, I don't like online cancel culture anymore than you do, so I think we were just looking at the post from different perspectives.

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1 minute ago, Midwest LDS said:

I can see why you might be upset by that. I agreed with the sentiment of the post which is why I liked it. I can, and do, believe most people should wear masks. However, I don't like online cancel culture anymore than you do, so I think we were just looking at the post from different perspectives.

It was not just that one tweet either.  Mormongator has been virtue signaling about his mask wearing for days now... which is uncharacteristic for him.  My post was a direct reply to that virtue signal.  

Edited by anatess2

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2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

It was not just that one tweet either.  Mormongator has been virtue signaling about his mask wearing for days now... which is uncharacteristic for him.  My post was a direct reply to that virtue signal.  

I see well I didn't mean to get involved in your discussion, I only responded because you tagged me. However, I was serious when I said have a blessed day. We are on the same side more often than we are not☺

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2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

or... what my friend did to my husband - called him a disgusting human being

You mean your former friend, I presume.

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7 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Saying why you believe masks is a good thing and encouraging others to do so is one thing.  Saying that, "I can wear a mask, you can too" like that tweet you liked implying that those who don't wear masks are just whiners and that wearing a mask is the ONLY right thing to do, or "Wearing a mask shows you care about other people", implying that you don't care about other people if you're not wearing a mask, or... what my friend did to my husband - called him a disgusting human being because he posted a joke about Braveheart shouting Freedom from the mask mandate... is the stupidity we are now in with this social media mask culture.

Yup, people losing control of themselves is in pandemic mode just like a whole bunch of other stuff! A friend of mine was sitting on a sidewalk bench out in front of his business in a city that is not under a mask order, not wearing a mask, and a friend of his drove by yelling unpleasant stuff at him out of the car window for not having a mask on.  At first he thought he was joking, but sadly, he was not. 

I don't know exactly where the "Utah Area" covers, sounds like the whole state, but I just got an email from the Utah Area Presidency asking for all Latter-Day Saints to wear face coverings when in public. It will be interesting to see how that is received. 

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6 hours ago, Plein Air said:

Yup, people losing control of themselves is in pandemic mode just like a whole bunch of other stuff! A friend of mine was sitting on a sidewalk bench out in front of his business in a city that is not under a mask order, not wearing a mask, and a friend of his drove by yelling unpleasant stuff at him out of the car window for not having a mask on.  At first he thought he was joking, but sadly, he was not. 

I don't know exactly where the "Utah Area" covers, sounds like the whole state, but I just got an email from the Utah Area Presidency asking for all Latter-Day Saints to wear face coverings when in public. It will be interesting to see how that is received. 

I'd imagine like many of the things the Church puts out. 

Some will, many won't.

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5 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I'd imagine like many of the things the Church puts out. 

Some will, many won't.

My guess is most if not all will follow the request around here. From what I have seen RE: Salt Lake, isn't pretty much everyone already wearing masks? 

Off topic - I am guessing by your avatar photo that you like John Wayne. You may already know this, but the progressive left wants everything about him removed from various public places and schools in California. This trend would logically have to include a huge segment of the population who lived from 1776 to about 1960, maybe 1970, including many of the ancestors of the SJWs, as well as the descendants from black Africans, those of Spanish heritage and other non "whites", who worked as slave traders. Why stop there? Lets attack all their descendants as well, ostracise them from the new politeliberal society, vandalize their homes and businesses, boycott anything they do, blot out their names from the public record!

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=john+wayne+removal&t=opera&ia=news

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=K-wJX4HnI_Ct0PEPtOGqgAM&q=remove+john+wayne&oq=remove+john+wayne&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzICCAAyAggAMgIIADoICAAQ6gIQjwE6CAgAELEDEIMBOgUIABCxAzoGCAAQFhAeOgcIABANEIsDUOMYWOMyYIU0aAJwAHgAgAGNAYgBtBCSAQQxLjE3mAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdperABCrgBAg&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjBqLC_0sXqAhXwFjQIHbSwCjAQ4dUDCAg&uact=5

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I realize I'm in Texas, but it addresses the same stuff as you're talking about in Utah, so...

I just got an email announcing that our stake is going to rev up the Sacrament schedule.

  • We're invited to come every Sunday.  No more rotations.
  • We are a small enough ward that we can still cut out half the pews to allow for social distancing.
  • Only those who consider themselves "low risk" (self-diagnosis) should attend.
  • Others who feel they are "high risk" are encouraged to stay home and continue home-based sacrament.
  • We are still only a 45 minute session.  Sunday school, PH/RS, etc. will still meet online.

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Our ward has yet to do any online stuff. Also still rotating alphabetically to keep the numbers under 100. Quite a few ward members are still trying to shake hands and hug people. I have to back away from them quickly while explaining that they need to keep their distance because of my illness. I think I would get better results if I just told everyone I had COVID.

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Where I live, there have only been 3 reported cases of covid19 in the last 5 weeks and they all came from another State. In ward council today we discussed plans to start meeting at the chapel on July 26. It looks like only half the ward will meet each week, and there won't be any hymn singing. 

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9 hours ago, Plein Air said:

Our ward has yet to do any online stuff. Also still rotating alphabetically to keep the numbers under 100. Quite a few ward members are still trying to shake hands and hug people. I have to back away from them quickly while explaining that they need to keep their distance because of my illness. I think I would get better results if I just told everyone I had COVID.

I know you were kind of joking, but it might work if you really can't get people to stop trying to hug you or shake your hand. My sister and her family had a bad case of COVID. They recovered and have been fine for months but whenever anyone hears it they treat them like a family of lepers (hence why they only tell close family members and friends now lol). It might be worth a shot.

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