Loose House Cats

[zil2]

On 5/5/2023 at 11:58 AM, Traveler said:

This is truly sad. 

Sad is your experience.  It's bizarre from my point of view.  I remember being the one who cleaned out the litter box - though there wasn't clumping litter when I was little and I'm sure mom changed the whole box when it needed it, until I was big enough.  Scooping out the box never bothered me, nor did picking up dog poop with either a bag or in a rake and scoop-on-a-pole.

As for training cats to use the litter box:

1. Wait for kitten to finish eating

2. Put kitten in box.

Done.  I never had to do anything else.  You do have to keep the box clean, but that's not hard.  The only time my family ever had a problem was when I came back from Moscow with 2 adult cats and mom & dad already had their own 2 cats, and there was some territory marking.  We dealt with it by separating the cats until I left my parents house.  No problem.

Apparently you rent to "sloppy" people.  (Polite variant.)  I'll bet they talk on their cell phones while seated on the toilet, too.

Edited May 8, 2023 by zil2

[LDSGator]

8 minutes ago, zil2 said:

Sad is your experience.  It's bizarre from my point of view.  I remember being the one who cleaned out the litter box - though there wasn't clumping litter when I was little and I'm sure mom changed the whole box when it needed it, until I was big enough.  Scooping out the box never bothered me, nor did picking up dog poop with either a bag or in a rack and scoop-on-a-pole.

As for training cats to use the litter box:

1. Wait for kitten to finish eating

2. Put kitten in box.

Done.  I never had to do anything else.  You do have to keep the box clean, but that's not hard.  The only time my family ever had a problem was when I came back from Moscow with 2 adult cats and mom & dad already had their own 2 cats, and there was some territory marking.  We dealt with it by separating the cats until I left my parents house.  No problem.

Apparently you rent to "sloppy" people.  (Polite variant.)  I'll bet they talk on their cell phones while seated on the toilet, too.

Agree. I think the vast majority of people with cats and dogs are able to keep clean houses. 

[askandanswer]

Over here its very common to see on advertisements for rental properties the phrase "no pets allowed." This requirement then usually becomes part of the lease contract, and then, during the six-monthly inspections by the agent/owner, possession of a pet by the renter can be grounds for eviction. How does it work over there?

[LDSGator]

45 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

Over here its very common to see on advertisements for rental properties the phrase "no pets allowed." This requirement then usually becomes part of the lease contract, and then, during the six-monthly inspections by the agent/owner, possession of a pet by the renter can be grounds for eviction. How does it work over there?

The sign is common but I haven’t lived in an apartment in decades so I don’t know about the inspections or punishments. 

[Vort]

7 hours ago, zil2 said:

Apparently you rent to "sloppy" people.  (Polite variant.)  I'll bet they talk on their cell phones while seated on the toilet, too.

Outrageous. I would never do such a thing. Never. But hypothetically, if I did, I would mute before flushing. And if I forgot or failed to mute on accident, I would deny and pretend it never happened. Hypothetically. But of course, I would never be in that position in the first place, because that's just disgusting. How gauche!

[zil2]

35 minutes ago, Vort said:

Outrageous. I would never do such a thing. Never. But hypothetically, if I did, I would mute before flushing. And if I forgot or failed to mute on accident, I would deny and pretend it never happened. Hypothetically. But of course, I would never be in that position in the first place, because that's just disgusting. How gauche!

We need a :shaking my head: reaction emoji.

[Traveler]

On 5/5/2023 at 1:48 PM, zil2 said:

Sad is your experience.  It's bizarre from my point of view.  I remember being the one who cleaned out the litter box - though there wasn't clumping litter when I was little and I'm sure mom changed the whole box when it needed it, until I was big enough.  Scooping out the box never bothered me, nor did picking up dog poop with either a bag or in a rack and scoop-on-a-pole.

As for training cats to use the litter box:

1. Wait for kitten to finish eating

2. Put kitten in box.

Done.  I never had to do anything else.  You do have to keep the box clean, but that's not hard.  The only time my family ever had a problem was when I came back from Moscow with 2 adult cats and mom & dad already had their own 2 cats, and there was some territory marking.  We dealt with it by separating the cats until I left my parents house.  No problem.

Apparently you rent to "sloppy" people.  (Polite variant.)  I'll bet they talk on their cell phones while seated on the toilet, too.

There is a story concerning my first dog that I got when I was eight.  The story was that she was only a day old and needed specialized and constant care for her to survive.  My first miracle spiritual experience involved her and my efforts to keep her alive.  We were bonded and as a teenager she returned the favor and saved my life.  When I returned from the military and my mission, I had to put her down – perhaps the most difficult chore of my life.

I am impressed your cat training was so easy for you.  My experiences with animals it that they are much more sensitive than most pet owners realize.  Their (the pets) frustrations are often expressed in the manner they relieve themselves.  There is an important difference between marking territory and relieving themselves.  Tensions in households is more likely to have pets relieving themselves contrary to training and in hidden places than marking their territories in more obvious places.   I have had so many problems with pet owners that are convinced that their pets are perfectly trained and that they are not sloppy people – that pets are not allowed.  The more adamant that they are that their pet is never a problem the more I am convinced that they really do not know that much about their pet and its sensitives.

If you keep and maintain house pets in your home, it will cost you at least 4 to 6 percent of your house’s value.  If you are sloppy or keep multiple pets it will be somewhat more.   If someone is renting and is not willing to pay extra based on the net value of their rental for each pet; they are in essence cheating their landlord.   As a side note my real estate investments cater to more high-end rentals but our rents are, by design, below comparable market levels.  Only on very rare occasions have we had difficulties with our renters or renters I would label as sloppy.

I have a son that considers himself a pet lover and has invested in rentals specific for pet owners.  It took a few years but he no longer rents to pet owners.  You are welcome, if you have rentals, to rent to whom ever you will.  But my first guess is that you do not have any such investments. 

 

The Traveler

[zil2]

8 minutes ago, Traveler said:

You are welcome, if you have rentals, to rent to whom ever you will.  But my first guess is that you do not have any such investments. 

Why in the world would I want to deal with annoying humans when I can just enjoy a furry little buddy instead?

[Traveler]

18 minutes ago, zil2 said:

Why in the world would I want to deal with annoying humans when I can just enjoy a furry little buddy instead?

Do you have a scripture reference for this????  🙃

 

The Traveler

[zil2]

8 hours ago, Traveler said:

Do you have a scripture reference for this????  🙃

People bad, wild beasts good:

Quote

4 Nephi 1

29 And again, there was another church which denied the Christ; and they did persecute the true church of Christ, because of their humility and their belief in Christ; and they did despise them because of the many miracles which were wrought among them.

30 Therefore they did exercise power and authority over the disciples of Jesus who did tarry with them, ...

33 And they also cast them into dens of wild beasts, and they did play with the wild beasts even as a child with a lamb; and they did come forth from among them, receiving no harm.

Balaam bad, donkey good:

Quote

Numbers 22

22 ¶ And God’s anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the Lord stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.

23 And the ass saw the angel of the Lord standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way. ...

25 ... and he smote her again. ...

27 And when the ass saw the angel of the Lord, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam’s anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.

28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, zil2 said:

People bad, wild beasts good:

Balaam bad, donkey good:

Sorry - I had a gross misunderstanding - I thought you were implying a preference of kindness towards animals over that of humans.  Perhaps a scripture that implies that we love animals as we love ourselves.  But then with the views of many in this modern society, such thinking could produce some rather new and strange marriage rituals.  I wanted to make sure that was not on the table of your thinking.😕

 

The Traveler

[zil2]

Just now, Traveler said:

Sorry - I had a gross misunderstanding - I thought you were implying a preference of kindness towards animals over that of humans.  Perhaps a scripture that implies that we love animals as we love ourselves.  But then with the views of many in this modern society, such thinking could produce some rather new and strange marriage rituals.  I wanted to make sure that was not on the table of your thinking.😕

  No worries, Traveler.  I was pointing out that animals often make better friends than fellow humans who are often far less than loving - I never had a pet that wasn't a better person than I am.  (And yes, especially our dogs - my husband wanted dogs, so we had two for a while.  Best "humans" ever.)  Those of us who are sane don't need a scripture to tell us to love animals - they're lovable "out of the box".  It's the humans who try our patience and whom we need to be commanded to love - cuz a lot of them aren't terribly lovable (pure love of Christ required in their cases).

Let's just pretend that perverted animal abusers don't exist lest I find it even harder to follow the second great commandment.

[Still_Small_Voice]

On 5/3/2023 at 5:11 PM, Ironhold said:

It's actually a running gag among older tabletop role-playing gamers that in early editions of Dungeons & Dragons your average housecat could kill your average first-level player, a fitting testament to their destructive capability in real life. 

 

If a wild house cat were attacking me I believe I could take it if I had a baseball bat or a police baton.  The cat might get his licks in but I would get them.  I would obviously prefer to engage a ferocious attacking house cat with a long gun.

Edit:  In posting this I want others to know that I do not have any hatred for house cats.  But I do not like vicious, out of control animals that attack people whether it be dogs or cats.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Still_Small_Voice

[Traveler]

3 hours ago, zil2 said:

  No worries, Traveler.  I was pointing out that animals often make better friends than fellow humans who are often far less than loving - I never had a pet that wasn't a better person than I am.  (And yes, especially our dogs - my husband wanted dogs, so we had two for a while.  Best "humans" ever.)  Those of us who are sane don't need a scripture to tell us to love animals - they're lovable "out of the box".  It's the humans who try our patience and whom we need to be commanded to love - cuz a lot of them aren't terribly lovable (pure love of Christ required in their cases).

Let's just pretend that perverted animal abusers don't exist lest I find it even harder to follow the second great commandment.

I could not help but respond to this with a little story of a friend.  He was a lawyer and considered himself a great patriot and defender of human rights.  But he was a little on the extreme side – at least in my mind.  When I was a scout master, I took our scouts on a winter tour of Yellowstone on snowmobiles.  We lost my friend that was there with his son.  One of the other adults suggested that if we attempted to raise an American flag – he would quickly find us.

Anyway, this friend would often jog in our area but there was a german shepherd that would chase him, and he had a horrible fear of dogs.  One day he had had enough of the dog and took his fully loaded 45 with him on the jog.  Of course, the dog came after him and he unloaded his 45 at blank range but was so filled with adrenaline he was never able to hit it – but he did succeed at scaring the dog.

He got in a lot of trouble for his foolishness.  I attempted to talk to him and help by reminding him he could have accomplished all that he thought we was doing with his 45 but without all the trouble, if he just took a squirt gun with a 10% solution of ammonia.

I do not think of animals as humans, but I do respect many species for their capabilities or sensing humans and our emotions.  Your pets are loyal often because they can sense your connection to them.  If someone dislikes them, they will act differently.  Few humans have such abilities and often require direct confrontation before they realize such things.

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

3 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

 

If a wild house cat were attacking me I believe I could take it if I had a baseball bat or a police baton.  The cat might get his licks in but I would get them.  I would obviously prefer to engage a ferocious attacking house cat with a long gun.

No house cat will attack unless it is sick or seriously threatened or, of course you are involved in fantasy and wild imagination.  No special weapons required or needed.   I have no idea what a level one player is in real life.

 

The Traveler

[Still_Small_Voice]

3 minutes ago, Traveler said:

No house cat will attack unless it is sick or seriously threatened or, of course you are involved in fantasy and wild imagination.  No special weapons required or needed.   I have no idea what a level one player is in real life.

The Traveler

If a house cat were attacking people without kittens or being physically cornered I would consider it rabid animal.

[LDSGator]

10 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

If a house cat were attacking people without kittens or being physically cornered I would consider it rabid animal.

Yup. 

[Traveler]

10 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

If a house cat were attacking people without kittens or being physically cornered I would consider it rabid animal.

As a side note – it is my experience that if a cat or dog has been neutered it is less likely to have house training mistakes. If a female animal (dog or cat) is in heat you can throw out any possibilities of a un-neutered male, behaving well.

 

The Traveler

[zil2]

39 minutes ago, Traveler said:

If a female animal (dog or cat) is in heat you can throw out any possibilities of a un-neutered male, behaving well.

Not so different from humans...

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

No house cat will attack unless it is sick or seriously threatened

Do they take that attitude outside? Will house cats generally run from conflict if placed outside?

[mirkwood]

2 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

 

If a wild house cat were attacking me I believe I could take it if I had a baseball bat or a police baton.  The cat might get his licks in but I would get them. 

Yes, well in the D&D world, as stated, a wizard at first level only has 1-4 hit points.  The domestic cat has two attacks that cause 1-2 each.  That cat might go first, might hit both attacks and might max out damage.  Wizard = dead in that scenario.

[mirkwood]

2 hours ago, Traveler said:

 if he just took a squirt gun with a 10% solution of ammonia.

An aggressive attacking large dog will not be deterred by a squirt gun.  Pepper spray sure, but no squirt gun is going to do the job, even with ammonia.

[Ironhold]

2 hours ago, Traveler said:

No house cat will attack unless it is sick or seriously threatened or, of course you are involved in fantasy and wild imagination.  No special weapons required or needed.   I have no idea what a level one player is in real life.

 

The Traveler

In the older version of the game? 

Depending upon what character class (wizard, fighter, thief, ranger, et cetra) your character is, you can potentially have a mere 4 - 12 hit points when you first start out. 

Housecats? 1 bite for d6 damage and 4 claw attacks for d4 damage each, meaning a housecat could hypothetically deliver 22 hit points' worth of damage in a single attack, 44 if it manages a "critical hit" with each of them. 

So your average housecat could bring down your average rookie barbarian warrior. 

Yeah, in the early editions of the game it was very, very easy for your characters to die.

[NeuroTypical]

Googling up some YouTube cat attacks.  Nothing I can post, because of the language as folks are getting attacked.  But if you want to google some up for yourself, you'll see a few things.

- The notion of fighting off a cat with a bat or nightstick = you will be beating yourself with a bat or nightstick as the cat claws it's way around you.

- No, cats don't do that much damage. I don't think there is a single recorded instance of a domesticated cat killing a human with violence.  Smothering a baby?  Sure.  Spreading disease? Yes.   I guess maybe if a cat gets lucky and opens an artery of a frail old person with paper-thin skin, that might be possible.  Or maybe clawing someone who flails around and falls off a cliff or runs into traffic.   Maybe a lucky shot in the person's eye?  Plenty of instances of cats attacking and people howling as if they're being killed.  But that's it.  I welcome evidence to the contrary.  I can't seem to find any.

Edited May 8, 2023 by NeuroTypical

[LDSGator]

23 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Or maybe clawing someone who flails around and falls off a cliff or runs into traffic

Sorry to laugh, but this is awesome.