The Third Hour

[prisonchaplain]

Granting that any real change to the scheduling and practices of the Church will come by the direction of the Holy Ghost, how has the shift from three to two hours of weekly ward time changed spiritual practice? Is more happening outside the ward? Has the streamlining meant most of the three hours of content get packed into the two hours? Is there less fluff and more meat? OR, should the Spirit lead, would you enjoy a return to three hours of weekly services on Sunday? 

[zil2]

48 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Granting that any real change to the scheduling and practices of the Church will come by the direction of the Holy Ghost,

1. how has the shift from three to two hours of weekly ward time changed spiritual practice?

2. Is more happening outside the ward?

3. Has the streamlining meant most of the three hours of content get packed into the two hours?

4. Is there less fluff and more meat?

5. OR, should the Spirit lead, would you enjoy a return to three hours of weekly services on Sunday? 

3. Instead of three meetings every Sunday, we now have two meetings every Sunday and the second hour alternates:

• Sunday School (on the first and third Sundays)
• Priesthood / Relief Society / Young Women (on the second and fourth Sundays)
• Fifth Sundays are used however the bishop decides (or how he is instructed by the Stake President or even Area Presidency, at times)

Sacrament meeting is 10 minutes shorter.  In my experience, they don't pack in more, they just fill the allotted time.

2. In theory, members should be studying more at home and teaching their children (where applicable), as well as finding their own ways to observe the Sabbath. Obviously, how that works out will vary by individual and family.  The timing of the changes was such that those who embraced the plan were prepared for worship at home when COVID-19 hit.

4. I think there's only more meat if the participants bring more meat.  In other words, it's up to the individual speakers and teachers how the time is filled, as well as class members (for the second hour).

5. Personally, I would love going back to the three hours and even more - especially for Sunday School and Relief Society - we have great discussions in my classes and always have to end before we've covered everything we had to say.  But I'm probably in an extreme minority.  For families, they have plenty to do at home together.  Those of us who are single would have to find other ways to continue the discussion...  (Like, say, ThirdHour.org... )

1. In theory, if one has embraced the Come, Follow Me program of study, then one has improved one's personal study of the gospel.  If one has embraced the Church's ministering program, then one has improved one's practice of living the gospel.  For those with families who participate in these together (as appropriate), their family bonds ought to be stronger.  Those who have heeded prophetic counsel from the same time as these changes should be learning to (better) hear the Spirit for themselves and should be stronger spiritually for it - deepening their conversion.  Obviously, all this will vary from person to person and family to family.

Edited September 20, 2023 by zil2

[Backroads]

I liked the three hours just fine and think the system had true benefits and perks.

But I think there is some real thought and purpose behind the move to two hours. I do think it puts so much back on the family, and that is a sacred responsibility. I think we will be possibly seeing even more movement to the responsibility of the individual in the gospel, a call to get the oil for our lamps, if you will.

As for the hours themselves, I feel they are more concise with less fluff. 

[NeuroTypical]

15 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

how has the shift from three to two hours of weekly ward time changed spiritual practice? 

Here's an odd take: I once went with our bishopric to visit our members who were not just inactive, but had shown some open hostility to the church.  I heard 3 angry stories, and 2 of them said something like "I've got better things to do than go to church for 3 hours every week."  (When you visit a 40 yr old guy who shows as "deacon", that's a clue he left the church as a young teenager.)

I see the move from 3 to 2 hours, to primarily be an effort to walk the talk of a "home based, church supported religion".  But I guess it's also an attempt to make the experience of a fully active person/family a bit more manageable.   Our culture now has less "cranky kids with no lunch until 2pm" in it.

[zil2]

48 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Our culture now has less "cranky kids with no lunch until 2pm" in it.

Yes, the scheduling to make full use of the building was always difficult:

9am-noon stinks for families trying to get a bunch of kids ready and for those who eat lunch early.

11:00 to 2:00 stinks for anyone who eats something called "lunch"

1:00 to 4:00 stinks for anyone who suffers from the post-lunch coma (personally, I like this the best as I can have a leisurely morning and so some study for the lessons before Church so it's all fresh in my mind - without waking up at 4am).  In my building, the two family wards rotate the two early slots and the Young Single Adults permanently get the afternoon slots because apparently YSAs just won't come to church if it starts before noon...

Edited September 20, 2023 by zil2

[askandanswer]

I would be happy for a return to 3 hours. I miss my Sunday School as that is where we had the most interesting discussions. I don't believe the content of Come Follow Me can be adequately covered when class meets once a fortnight. 

I have used the time to become slightly acquainted with family history. Before the change to 2 hours I had done practically no family history in all my life. Since the change to two hours I have done almost no family history in my life, but I have done slightly more than what I had done before. 

Things are a bit different in my Branch. We have two branches in my city, one of which is quite small, and one chapel. This year the schedule was changed so that the first branch has Sacrament on their own, then both units will come together for Sunday School/Priesthood/Primary/YWYM, and after that the second branch will have sacrament on their own. The total amount of meeting time is the same.

I haven't noticed an increase in the meatiness of Sacrament, I think that is more related to the skills and interests of who gives the talks rather than the amount of time available. I have noticed a willingness to cut down on time spent in making announcements at the start of the meeting, which take time to make, and just referring people to the branch facebook page. 

It's my observation that only a very few people here are following Come Follow Me from home. Most weeks the Sunday School teachers asks who has done the reading and very few people put their hand up. Sometimes nobody does. 

I suspect we could make available more time in the meetings by using an additional Deacon to pass the sacrament and get that part of the meeting over with sooner, but given that partaking of the sacrament is considered to be the primary purpose of that meeting, and hearing the speakers is only secondary, there may be a reluctance to rush the more important part of the meeting in order to give more time for the less important. 

[Ironhold]

To be brutally honest? 

Music is a big part of how I deal with everything in life, and so I've gotten into the habit of sitting in the back with an ear bud in so I can live-stream a favorite radio station during church... especially if I've had a rough week going in and I need a little bit of extra boost to deal with people.  

Church starts at noon and ends at 2, but I've often started listening as early as 7 AM since there's back to back syndicated shows on different channels and so the battery on my phone is already starting to get lower than I'm comfortable with. Throw in the fact that I have fixed errands to do after church which usually take another hour to do, and my phone's about 40% by the time I get home. And since it's an iPhone, I don't have separate ports for charger and headphones. 

(For the record, KBGO-FM Waco Texas airs back-to-back classic episodes of American Top 40 with Casey Kasem on Sundays; I listen to this 10 - 11 months of the year, depending upon when KBGO stunts all-Christmas. Once they do that, it's KUQQ-FM Milford Iowa, which is a local Lutheran church service followed by rebroadcasts of Sammy Hagar's Top Rock Countdown, The Classics With Steve Downes, and House of Hair with Dee Snider from Saturday night.)

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, Ironhold said:

Music is a big part of how I deal with everything in life, and so I've gotten into the habit of sitting in the back with an ear bud in so I can live-stream a favorite radio station during church

That’s actually an excellent idea. I’ve seen people play on their iPads/phones during church. 

[Backroads]

15 hours ago, Ironhold said:

To be brutally honest? 

Music is a big part of how I deal with everything in life, and so I've gotten into the habit of sitting in the back with an ear bud in so I can live-stream a favorite radio station during church... especially if I've had a rough week going in and I need a little bit of extra boost to deal with people.  

I respect this.

I'm actually something of the opposite. I've come to realize I'm a hermit, and working from home these past few years hasn't helped that. And heck if I don't like it that way.

So, for some reason, I tend to be more social with church. I hate the idea of calling church a social club, but it's a nice way for me to be social and connect with people. I'm actually the one chatting it up. 

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, Backroads said:

hate the idea of calling church a social club,

I totally agree that it’s much more than a social club, but don’t ever discount how important the social aspect of church is. For some people that’s their primary outlet. Their only outlet, really. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by LDSGator

[Grunt]

Strictly as it relates to worship and ignoring the social/convenience impact:

I think the shift has been great for some families.  Studying in and Come Follow Me is great for the families that take advantage of it.

I think the shift has been horrible for children who don't have parents that do home study and family scripture reading.

I think the shift has zero affect on adults without children who do or don't study at home or listen to music during sacrament meetings.

[Ironhold]

16 hours ago, LDSGator said:

That’s actually an excellent idea. I’ve seen people play on their iPads/phones during church. 

On a normal Sunday, I take my spot in the back, have the one earbud in (only going to two if it's a song I like or one of Casey's Long-Distance Dedications), and then read the scriptures for a bit (1 - 2 chapters from OT, NT, BOM, POGP). If there's still time left in sacrament meeting, I'll fiddle with my phone a bit, usually one of the comics from Weekly Shonen Jump (the app usually updates Sundays around noon local time) and a few minutes on a wrestling management simulator. 

Yeah, the music does keep me chill most of the time, but sometimes it keeps me *so* chill I'll nod off if I'm not a part of what's going on... which is actually quite a bit as it's a larger family congregation, I'm single, and because I was with the YSA branch for so long as a de facto advisor few people even know who I am despite my trying to introduce myself. Basically, the ward's big enough I'm lost in the shuffle so unless I start snoring few people notice me outside of my coming in late every now and then.

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

then read the scriptures for a bit (

Amen to that my friend. I can’t tell you how many time I’d read the Scriptures during services. Very spiritual feeling. 

[Carborendum]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:45 PM, prisonchaplain said:

how has the shift from three to two hours of weekly ward time changed spiritual practice?

I think it only magnified whatever was already going on for each individual/family.  If you spent some time at home studying, pondering, praying, fasting... you'll do a bit more of it now.  If you spent time surfing the web or reading junk... you'll do a bit more.

On 9/19/2023 at 9:45 PM, prisonchaplain said:

Is more happening outside the ward?

I'm not sure what you mean here, but I'll say that I've noticed group leadership seems to be taking that extra hour to hold group meetings a lot more often.

On 9/19/2023 at 9:45 PM, prisonchaplain said:

Has the streamlining meant most of the three hours of content get packed into the two hours?

From my perspective as Sunday School teacher, I get to look through two weeks' study material so I can pick and choose what I want to emphasize during class time.  I still have to keep it to an hour of class time.  So, I have to prioritize the topics and chapters we go over.

On 9/19/2023 at 9:45 PM, prisonchaplain said:

Is there less fluff and more meat? OR, should the Spirit lead, would you enjoy a return to three hours of weekly services on Sunday? 

I certainly hope that by having to prioritize, I focus on more meat.  But each teacher has different styles.

My preferred M.O. is to ask,"What is a perspective on these chapters that the average saint is probably not going to know about it?"  I guess that may sound like I'm trying to sensationalize it.  But my motivation is more of "Wow!  I discovered something that really inspired me.  I've got to share this with others."

Just this past week, I really didn't find much that I found personally inspiring.  (I know I'm going to offend any Paulites lurking, but he tends to repeat himself a lot).  But I chose specified verses from the manual and asked various individuals to read them.  When they did, I asked them to interpret that and give their thoughts on what it meant to them.  Easiest lesson I've ever (not) planned.

[pam]

I'll stick to the 2 hours thank you very much.

[Vort]

On 9/20/2023 at 3:18 PM, askandanswer said:

I would be happy for a return to 3 hours.

I agree.

That said, I am not utilizing the extra Sunday hour at home as I should be. So I admit that up front. I still miss the extra time in Church, now taken away from the precious few hours I used to have every week to fraternize with the best people outside of my own family that I know, the people I admire most and seek most to emulate.