Colirio
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Posts posted by Colirio
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1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:
Do you believe putting one's foot in one's mouth is really the key to "darkness" and sin?
I don't believe it.
Nope.
Thats not not at all what I was saying.
I have at times attempted to teach/preach/call to repent and have not sought the Lord's inspiration first. And as a result, it was simply not effective.
At best, it was less effective than it could have been had I done so in the Lord's way.
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17 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:
Have we been commanded to be like and do as Christ did or have we not?
I submit that yes, we should do as Christ did and seek His Father's will concerning those things he would have us do.
Speaking as someone who often puts his foot in his mouth, unless teaching is done in the Lord's way, it's not going to be effective anyway.
D&C 42:14 And the Spirit shall be given unto you by the prayer of faith; and if ye receive not the Spirit ye shall not teach.
D&C 50:17 Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
18 And if it be by some other way it is not of God.
19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God.
21 Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?
22 Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together.
23 And that which doth not edify is not of God, and is darkness. -
13 hours ago, anatess2 said:
The age, in my understanding is a policy. This is the policy for the latter days where parents and prophets and scripture and missionaries and a mortal genetic history are all available to learn from.
I know some others on here do not seem to consider it to be inspired scripture, but I'm going to put it here anyway:
Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis 17:
11 And I will establish a covenant of circumcision with thee, and it shall be my covenant between me and thee, and thy seed after thee, in their generations; that thou mayest know forever that children are not accountable before me until they are eight years old.
Concerning your point about Adam and Eve specifically, however, is valid.
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I suppose I can see the benefits of helping so many people with distorted views of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to come and partake of the love and concern that their Savior, and the saints by extension, have for them.
Like @Grunt mentioned, I do wonder whether justification for sin is the take away for some in the congregation.
- Midwest LDS, NeuroTypical and anatess2
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Did it really reveal anything we didn't already know to be the truth?
For anyone who has been paying attention, it's just one more "witness" to a very long list...
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On 1/18/2018 at 2:18 PM, Carborendum said:
It had the opposite effect in Brazil. Divorce was so difficult that people decided it was easier never to get married.
I did not personally find this to be true.
I served my mission there in the late '90's. The vast majority of people in Brazil were "married," but not legally. The government does not recognize a marriage made through a religious ceremony. They only recognize marriages made through the courthouse. Which was expensive.
One of the biggest hurdles we had in baptizing folks wasn't their not wanting to be married because of fear of not being able to get a divorce. It was coming up with sufficient funds to do so.
On several occasions, it took months for them to save the money, even with other members donating money, for them to afford the legal ceremony to be able to be baptized.
Granted, this was just personal observation over the course of a few hundred investigators from 20 years ago.
- Vort and Just_A_Guy
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30 minutes ago, Carborendum said:
Trial and error -- trade secrets. Nothing more.
30 minutes ago, Carborendum said:And there are no secrets except for the specific alloy being used.
Secrets?
No secrets?
I tend to agree with your assessment in that MANY people romanticize the sword craft, buyers, sellers, and smiths alike.
But 1080 steel is simply the middle of the road. There are tougher steels made from 1060. There are harder steels made from 1095. The 1080 is simply a compromise somewhere in the middle.
Companies like Cold Steel use 1055 for their swords and they are very tough. However, their edge retention is nowhere near as good as Ka-Bar's 1095 Bowie knives, for example. Companies like Condor Tools and Knives use 1075 for most of their knives and swords because they compromise a little toughness and a little edge retention to achieve something in the middle.
Another element that that many companies seem to struggle with is giving a proper heat treatment. The type of steel can be made much stronger or weaker depending on their processes for heat treatment. Some of the larger modern manufacturers seem to have entire runs of breakage in their weapons, even though the type of steel is the same.
Anyway, the entirety of the point was summarized by something you stated that goes back to the original topic:
30 minutes ago, Carborendum said:In the end, steel is a material. It isn't magic.
That is exactly right.
Nephi clearly recognized the steel used for Laban's sword. That means it was made from elements he recognized.
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43 minutes ago, Carborendum said:
So, the common belief was that strength and flexibility are at odds with each other. You can't increase one without decreasing the other. Swordsmiths today believe that you need one alloy for the edge while having another alloy for the body of the blade. This is born out of the concept that both the alloy and the forging will affect both characteristics. That is only true if you MAKE it true.
A PBS article with inaccuracies?!? Surely you jest!!
Seriously though, many modern mid range to higher end swords are made from one type of steel rather than using different alloy compositions for the edge and remainder of the sword. For the reasons Vort pointed out, modern steel is vastly superior to the steels used even a couple hundred years ago. A sword made from 5160 (or Chinese equivalent 9260) spring steel, for example, is extremely tough and will hold a decent edge even after repeated use.
Higher end katanas, due to the romanticized lore that surrounds them, still use the clay hardening techniques to achieve a prized hamon on the edge. This edge is harder and remains sharp longer than and edge made from tougher material.
A simple google search for "sword steel hard versus tough" will be full of articles concerning how modern sword smiths are using various heat treatments to achieve amazing results for steel. The point (no pun intended) is that even the top sword smiths have to strike SOME balance between hard and tough steel. If you believe that is not necessary, you stand to be able to make a LOT of money through your patented process.
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Just wanted to add some links that discuss the trade off between toughness and hardness of steel.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/metal-fundamentals.html
https://www.americancuttingedge.com/technical-info/hardness-toughness/
https://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/battle-ready-sword.html
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15 hours ago, Carborendum said:
Well, we know it wasn't Damascus steel because it doesn't do well against the elements. One reason we don't know the formula for Damascus steel is that some components had long since corroded. No remnants even remain.
But something similar? Like a folding pattern? Possibly. But I'm just not getting that from the description.
I agree that the description is vague.
That is my point, though. It simply says "most precious steel." All that says is it is something recognizable by viewing, not really by testing.
True Damascus would have been recognizable by view. As for its corrosion over time, the sword of Laban had been passed along and thereby maintained through the generations of Nephites. For all we know, it could have been packed in an extremely oily substance inside the stone box for the thousand plus years. Just offering more possibilities and a simple explanation.
But my guess, like yours, was that it was due to the shine of the steel.
15 hours ago, Carborendum said:That is kind of what I was getting at later in my post.
Agreed. Your post was excellent.
15 hours ago, Carborendum said:Actually, this is not correct metallurgy. There is no reason a hard steel cannot also have tremendous toughness. The properties are not directly related. Folding is not about hardening or not hardening. And it does not change the toughness of the alloy itself. It is about removing voids in the crystal structure. For instance, it the metallurgy has a cubic structure, then folding helps ensure that all four corners of every cube is in its proper place. It ensures that each cube is linked to all other cubes. Without the folding, the alloy is subject to weakness. While folding doesn't get rid of all such voids, it does tend to spread out the voids to a more random pattern, so the overall structural integrity is maintained.
With structural integrity maintained, the strain energy capacity of each crystal is increased (toughening).
With modern metallurgy and especially spring steels, a really tough, decent edge holding steel CAN be achieved.
The difficulty for generations of smiths however has been to solve this riddle of steel between edge retention (a result of hardness) and a sufficient toughness to stand up to the rigors of battle. The accounts can be googled of warriors angrily bending their metal swords back into shape on the battlefield or worse yet, their swords shattering when blocked or parried. Even The Book of Mormon contains an account of a sword being broken.
You are correct about the purposes for folding the steel in order to remove impurities. I can see where the misunderstanding comes from how I worded my paragraph.
The steel was already folded. During the quenching process the steel (which was already folded) used a clay that allowed certain parts of the katana to be harder (around the edge) while the rest made a tougher steel (to absorb more impact.)
Folded, clay hardened steel would have been instantly recognizable as having been forged by a competent smith or by one who cut corners.
Again, just offering simple explanations as to how Nephi might have instantly recognized the "most precious steel."
15 hours ago, Carborendum said:On this point, I agree with you.
I have a feeling we are in agreement on most things.
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Nephi recognizing the steel as being precious means that it was something out of the ordinary.
Could be made from Damascus steel which would be instantly recognizable.
Could be that shiny iron steel was different than other iron based steels used typically in that region. Nickel, manganese, or other additives would cause the steel to be shinier.
For combative purposes, you don't want steel that is just "hard." The edge should be hard to retain a sharp edge, but the remainder of the sword should be "tough" in order to not break if accidentally struck against other hardened objects. This balance between hardness and toughness is the key factor that has caused debate for centuries. It's quite possible that, like a Japanese katana, Nephi simply recognized the layering of folded steel that gave a toughness to the sword while maintaining a hardened edge.
This, to me, makes more sense than speculating about whether a magical sword was granted to Nephi from some heavenly material from another place in the galaxy.
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Inspired by the gun thread, I was thinking there are probably several more people who carry and use knives than guns.
I have been carrying and using the Benchmade Griptilian for about a year and a half now and really like it. The axis lock secures the blade nice and tight with zero play when opened.
What do you carry or use daily?
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23 hours ago, Carborendum said:
So I ended up looking at the Sig Sauer P226. Visually, it looked like the Ruger P95's kid brother. It was slightly smaller. But the barrel and overall look was very similar to the P95. It has a slightly different handle.
My new favorite handgun is the very inexpensive Sig Sauer SP2022 chambered in 9mm. (The P226's polymer cousin.) It comes with night sights and interchangeable hand grips for those different size hands that might be shooting it. Not only was it the most accurate handgun right out of the box, but I had zero issues with it no matter the type of ammunition I fed it.
At $400, it is one of the best deals to be found.
The less expensive price is a huge benefit as it means it can be replaced if necessary. Many of my friends like to carry the $1,000 - $3,000 handguns as their weapon, and there's nothing wrong with that. Other than the fact that they tend to treat it like a delicate flower. (Which defeats the whole purpose of a tool, IMO.) At the lower price point, I don't fret over scratches and dings.
As for not shooting the P226 as well, it might be an issue with the handgun, or it might simply not be suited to you.
For example, people love Glock. It's also what I was issued by the Feds years ago. But the truth is that I am simply not accurate with it. Likewise, out of the box, I had 1 failure to feed and 3 stove pipes within the first 200 rounds. It was just not well suited to me.
I'd recommend going to a range where you can pay for a day of trying several different handguns and finding the one that is best suited to you.
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9 hours ago, Vort said:
You can thank me when we're all seated at the table in the celestial kingdom. Before we, you know, fold up the chairs.
Slide-closing and carrying 2 chairs in each hand is really the only way to be Celestially-efficient!
In keeping with the theme of this thread, I plan to FORGIVE those who eat and leave from the church activities without staying to take down the chairs and tables. My NON-JUDGMENT (and service) of others is the only shot I have of making it past the T Kingdoms......
3 Nephi 14:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged; and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
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The true judge will be the stopwatch.
We will each be placed in a cultural hall full of tables and chairs that need to be put away after a church activity.
Then we shall really see who has been practicing throughout their probationary time on earth and who hasn't.
"I'm sorry, but you were only able to put away a Telestial amount of chairs and tables..."
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4 hours ago, Vort said:
Agreed. Like, for example, the three degrees of glory.
Yes, and like when the Lord Himself refers to being married for TIME and all Eternity? D&C 132:18
Or how when it says that TIME will be no longer? D&C 84:100
Or how when it says that TIME only is measured unto men? Alma 40:8
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10 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:
I can only speculate. There are males who would do very well in primary presidencies and females who might be amazingly effective in Sunday School leadership. So the policy (if divinely approved, of course) might open up those positions to qualified individuals who currently cannot hold them—but, as I suggest above, with some trade-offs; probably significant ones.
This made me think of President Eyering's comment during the priesthood session last conference:
"The second lesson is that the Lord’s work is not just to solve problems; it is to build people. So as you walk with Him in priesthood service, you may find that sometimes what seems like the most efficient solution is not the Lord’s preferred solution because it does not allow people to grow. If you listen, He will teach you His ways. Remember that God’s work and glory is not simply to run an effective organization; it is “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). This is, after all, why He gives His priesthood authority to flawed mortals like you and me and invites us to participate in His work. Our progress is His work!"
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And yet there seems to be a competition in this very discussion...
Which is ironic considering that this thread originally started about a discussion of a potentially divisive test coming in the near future.
My own thoughts would be there are varying types of competition. It could be said that repentance is a type of competition that takes place within our own soul between the natural man and the spiritual man. Likewise, there has been a war for souls since before mortality. If opposition is considered to be competition, then Lehi said that it is in all things. Even my muscles cannot grow stronger without opposing forces.
When Alma fought against Amlici, I believe that God strengthened Alma to slay his opponent. There was nothing unGodly in Alma's actions, but there was certainly evil in Amlici's heart.
Maybe I am reading too much into it...
In answer to the original thoughts about an upcoming test:
I would say that in order to pass any such test, following the prophets and apostles would lead us down the right path. Perhaps, we might even recognize the test for what it is through the Holy Ghost.
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In the verse in Ether, is "man" being used as terminology for the word "mankind?"
ie. The Lord has not revealed himself to mankind in general.
He doesn't say "any man" or even "a man," but rather uses the term "man."
- zil, askandanswer, Midwest LDS and 1 other
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Elder Richard J Maynes from the Presidency of the Seventy gave an interesting talk last year that spoke about how the differing accounts help to paint a better picture of what actually happened.
https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/worldwide-devotionals/2016/01/the-truth-restored?lang=eng
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Great answers!
Our limited perspective of the intentions of a person's heart disqualifies us from being able to judge others.
For instance, to say "Thou shalt not kill" raises situational rationale, does it not? Is a soldier who kills for country unable to be forgiven? What about someone who kills in defense of loved ones?
That raises the question of those who lose themselves to anger in the heat of the moment. Would it be just for their split second decision to condemn them for eternity? What about those who lose certain decision making abilities because they chose to use drugs or alcohol who's actions result in the death of another person?
In my own mind, there are simply too many variables to account for without having a perfect knowledge and understanding of the person's heart and mind.
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Why we don't live in Zion (and why we should be happy about that)
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
Some thoughts...
Charity is a gift. Without the Atonement and attendant spiritual blessings, none of us would ever merit the gift of charity or living in Zion. But with those God given blessings, we can.
So, without God's grace, none of us can live there. Therefore, it is a completely empty city. With His grace, those who seek can, and will, find that they fit right in with everyone else who has done the same.
In General Conference last year, Elder Neil L. Andersen quoted President David O. McKay's vision. It seems appropriate to quote him here:
"Many years ago, President David O. McKay told of a beautiful experience he had while sailing on a boat toward Samoa. After falling asleep, he “beheld in vision something infinitely sublime. In the distance,” he said, “I beheld a beautiful white city. … Trees with luscious fruit … and flowers in perfect bloom abounded everywhere. … A great concourse of people [was] approaching the city. Each one wore a white flowing robe. … Instantly my attention … centered upon their leader, and though I could see only the profile of his features … , I recognized him at once as my Savior! The … radiance of his countenance [was] glorious. … [The] peace about him … was divine!”
President McKay continues, “The city … was his … the City Eternal; and the people following him were to abide there in peace and eternal happiness.”
President McKay wondered, “Who [are] they? [Who are these people?]”
He explains what happened next:
“As if the Savior read my thoughts, he answered by pointing to [words in] a semicircle that … appeared above [the people], … written in gold … :
“‘These Are They Who Have Overcome the World—
“Who Have Truly Been Born Again!’”"