Traveler

Jesus addressed this very question when he said, "Not everyone that says unto me L-rd - shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven".  In short not everybody that thinks they are a Christian - actually is.  Jesus also taught the many will think because they did things in the name of Christ - that such would qualify as being a Christian.    Our English translation says that Jesus will respond by saying he never knew them.  There are many experts in ancient languages that say it would be better if this was translated as "I never authorized you".
There has already been some discussion concerning "Authorization".  I suspect that this means something different that many think - especially those that think that doing things in the name of Christ because you learned the name from reading scripture - are going to be disappointed. 
But I would make one last point - that is that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only church I know of that authorizes redemption of the dead through temple work.  Which leaves other wondering if Baptism is necessary or if those unbaptized will be damned.
 
The Traveler

Jesus addressed this very question when he said, "Not everyone that says unto me L-rd - shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven".  In short not everybody that thinks they are a Christian - actually is.  Jesus also taught the many will think because they did things in the name of Christ - that such would qualify as being a Christian.    Our English translation says that Jesus will respond by saying he never knew them.  There are many experts in ancient languages that say it would be better if this was translated as "I never authorized you".
There has already been some discussion concerning "Authorization".  I suspect that this means something different that many think - especially those that think that doing things in the name of Christ because you learned the name from reading scripture - are going to be disappointed. 
But I would make one last point - that is that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only church I know of that authorizes redemption of the dead through temple work.  Which leaves other wondering if Baptism is necessary or if those unbaptized will be damned.
 
The Traveler

Some few years back I had a most annoying neighbor that would borrow my stuff and not return it so that I would usually have to go and beg to get it back.  I finely decided I was done loaning him my stuff.  Then he came and asked if he could borrow my lawnmower.  I simply said, no.  But no was not good enough - he then asked why?  I thought for a while and said that it was because the price of butter in China was almost 3 times what it is here.  But he still would not let it die there and asked, what does the price of butter in China have to do with me borrowing your lawnmower?  To which I said - nothing, but if I do not want to loan you my lawnmower any excuse should do.
Okay; this is not exactly a true neighborhood story - but the point I have learned - if someone does or does not want to do a thing - any excuse is as good as a reason but does not have to be connected to any reality or even be true.  And so it is with anyone that does not want to investigate  the Church - they do not need a reason connected to any reality or that has any relationship to truth.
Speculating it a lot like making an excuse - it does not have to have purpose, reason or any connection to any reality or have anything to do with truth.  But then - this is why speculating is so fun - it carries no responsibility what-so-ever and allows people to argue, get angry that think it is the other person's fault.
@clbent04 can post what-ever they want - If I am interested I might respond.
 
The Traveler

Sometimes when we hear literal titles that are different - yet mean the same thing - we may not recognized that such titles do mean the same thing.  Anciently the notion of first born meant most noble or highest born.  Thus the Church of the Firstborn is the Church of Jesus Christ.  It is not the Church with saving power as it is Jesus Christ and the priesthood by which his power is given to those to officiate in his name and his proxy.
 
The Traveler

Some few years back I had a most annoying neighbor that would borrow my stuff and not return it so that I would usually have to go and beg to get it back.  I finely decided I was done loaning him my stuff.  Then he came and asked if he could borrow my lawnmower.  I simply said, no.  But no was not good enough - he then asked why?  I thought for a while and said that it was because the price of butter in China was almost 3 times what it is here.  But he still would not let it die there and asked, what does the price of butter in China have to do with me borrowing your lawnmower?  To which I said - nothing, but if I do not want to loan you my lawnmower any excuse should do.
Okay; this is not exactly a true neighborhood story - but the point I have learned - if someone does or does not want to do a thing - any excuse is as good as a reason but does not have to be connected to any reality or even be true.  And so it is with anyone that does not want to investigate  the Church - they do not need a reason connected to any reality or that has any relationship to truth.
Speculating it a lot like making an excuse - it does not have to have purpose, reason or any connection to any reality or have anything to do with truth.  But then - this is why speculating is so fun - it carries no responsibility what-so-ever and allows people to argue, get angry that think it is the other person's fault.
@clbent04 can post what-ever they want - If I am interested I might respond.
 
The Traveler

Has anyone else noticed that speculation is not any fun it you actually know what is going on.  Plus it seems to me that the less someone knows about something the more vehemently (including anger and disgust) it seems that they must defend their theories and denigrate anyone that does not think their theory is brilliant and divinely inspired.  I think I agree with @Vort - Speculating about things for which there is not sufficient evidence is a lot more fun than being right about things that can actually be demonstrated - regardless of it importance.
 
The Traveler

Has anyone else noticed that speculation is not any fun it you actually know what is going on.  Plus it seems to me that the less someone knows about something the more vehemently (including anger and disgust) it seems that they must defend their theories and denigrate anyone that does not think their theory is brilliant and divinely inspired.  I think I agree with @Vort - Speculating about things for which there is not sufficient evidence is a lot more fun than being right about things that can actually be demonstrated - regardless of it importance.
 
The Traveler

Are you from The Ohio?

Has anyone else noticed that speculation is not any fun it you actually know what is going on.  Plus it seems to me that the less someone knows about something the more vehemently (including anger and disgust) it seems that they must defend their theories and denigrate anyone that does not think their theory is brilliant and divinely inspired.  I think I agree with @Vort - Speculating about things for which there is not sufficient evidence is a lot more fun than being right about things that can actually be demonstrated - regardless of it importance.
 
The Traveler

I have a theory about people who theorize about who the Holy Ghost is. Guess what it is.

Please, stop this thread right now. Seriously. Please just stop. This is not the type of thing that ought to be speculated on. Please just let it die. Anything you write will just embarrass you, anyone who reads it, and Latter-day Saints in general.

@mirkwood, @Traveler needs a favor!  I'm sure he'd be willing to bring his bike into your jurisdiction in exchange.  Maybe you could tip him off to places where it's more likely you can exceed the speed limit on a bike?

You are both sweat and funny but quite different from my wife.  I am not allowed to give my wife anything that can be worn (unless she specifically says - "You can buy this").  And anything centered around me would not be allowed - the poster would be in the garbage faster than the wrapping paper.  I think the worse gift ever from me was - but I have to give a back story.  When we lived in Seattle life was very busy for both of us.  She had a flat tier late at night on the freeway with three very small kids - only to discover that the spare tire was missing.  It was a wet, cold and rainy night - not a happy event for her.  This was about a month and a half before Christmas - So for Christmas I got her a brand new spare tire for her car.  It was 5 years before I was allowed to even shop for her with a list she made.
Sometimes setting goals just does not work.  For at least 40 years I have tried to get a speeding ticket on my bicycle to frame and hang in my office. A few years back I was having a fantastic riding year.  I was getting PR's on almost every ride - it was also the last year I got a KOM - BTW KOM's are very difficult to get - my son that rides semi-pro has never gotten one and it ticks him off that his old aging dad has had a few. (but I have never been able to keep any for more than a day or two before some young buck takes it away - by more than a few seconds - with one exception that was taken by only a second.)  Back to the speeding ticket - that year I went through a radar trap 20 miles/hour over the speed limit (according to my bike computer).  The cop was by the side of the road with radar gun in hand pointed straight at me and as I passed by - he gave me a thumbs up and smiled.  What kind of cop does that?
Sometimes all our efforts are not good enough and despite our best - things just do not turn out as we hoped for or planned.  And my wife - that never in all our years - ever gets discouraged or gives up -- always says, "Stop focusing on things that really don't matter and just enjoy the ride and the moment."  Srug! - I am trying; really hard.  Maybe if I could just try a little tiny bit harder next time?  Then the wife says to me - "You are already doing better be thankful and realize that what you suck at is in thinking it is important to be even better." 
One last thing - I hope everybody is having a better year than me and that this year your hearts will be full of gratitude and thanks - even if you did not reach all the goals and fell short at accomplishing what you planned and strive for.  And most of all - I hope you all have someone in your life like my wife is to me - that will give you a hug and kiss and love you anyway.  Crap - and this reminds me that I need to try harder to return back a little more of the goodness and love she gives me.
 
The Traveler

You are both sweat and funny but quite different from my wife.  I am not allowed to give my wife anything that can be worn (unless she specifically says - "You can buy this").  And anything centered around me would not be allowed - the poster would be in the garbage faster than the wrapping paper.  I think the worse gift ever from me was - but I have to give a back story.  When we lived in Seattle life was very busy for both of us.  She had a flat tier late at night on the freeway with three very small kids - only to discover that the spare tire was missing.  It was a wet, cold and rainy night - not a happy event for her.  This was about a month and a half before Christmas - So for Christmas I got her a brand new spare tire for her car.  It was 5 years before I was allowed to even shop for her with a list she made.
Sometimes setting goals just does not work.  For at least 40 years I have tried to get a speeding ticket on my bicycle to frame and hang in my office. A few years back I was having a fantastic riding year.  I was getting PR's on almost every ride - it was also the last year I got a KOM - BTW KOM's are very difficult to get - my son that rides semi-pro has never gotten one and it ticks him off that his old aging dad has had a few. (but I have never been able to keep any for more than a day or two before some young buck takes it away - by more than a few seconds - with one exception that was taken by only a second.)  Back to the speeding ticket - that year I went through a radar trap 20 miles/hour over the speed limit (according to my bike computer).  The cop was by the side of the road with radar gun in hand pointed straight at me and as I passed by - he gave me a thumbs up and smiled.  What kind of cop does that?
Sometimes all our efforts are not good enough and despite our best - things just do not turn out as we hoped for or planned.  And my wife - that never in all our years - ever gets discouraged or gives up -- always says, "Stop focusing on things that really don't matter and just enjoy the ride and the moment."  Srug! - I am trying; really hard.  Maybe if I could just try a little tiny bit harder next time?  Then the wife says to me - "You are already doing better be thankful and realize that what you suck at is in thinking it is important to be even better." 
One last thing - I hope everybody is having a better year than me and that this year your hearts will be full of gratitude and thanks - even if you did not reach all the goals and fell short at accomplishing what you planned and strive for.  And most of all - I hope you all have someone in your life like my wife is to me - that will give you a hug and kiss and love you anyway.  Crap - and this reminds me that I need to try harder to return back a little more of the goodness and love she gives me.
 
The Traveler

All the more reason to get that KOM, frame it, give it to your wife for a present!  Best. Gag. Gift. Ever.  You can hide the real present in the back of the frame... like, I don't know, tape diamond earrings to it or something.
My husband does this.  I have this strange weakness where I have zero patience for surprises.  So, I would take my presents from under the tree, carefully open it to see what's inside, then tape it back up and put under the tree to wait for Christmas.  It gets me super frustrated and distracted wanting to know what's inside... I mean, I don't want to have it already, I just want to know what's in it.  So, anyway, my husband found out I've been doing this, so he would put something stupid in the present, put it under the tree, and disguise the real present or hide it somewhere.  

I tell everyone I’m riding as fast as I did 10 years ago, it’s the bike that’s getting slower.
But seriously, kudos to you for continuing to set goals and go after them.  You have my respect and admiration.
For years I rode for the social aspect, lot of relays (e.g. Saints to Sinners) and enjoyed getting my son in laws involved.
This year I decided to do a century for the fist time since I did Solvang in the 90s.  It was hot, and I rode too much of it alone, but I’m glad I did it.
Keep setting goals and go after them.
Godspeed.

Does your bishop know you've taken on a side job for the mob?
Maybe if you stopped having seconds, you would do better.

@Traveler next time you go, just have your wife drive in front of you the whole way so you can get a nice draft

I debated posting this thread and for a while, deciding not to at first - but it is such a microcosm of life I though to post it anyway.  As some of you know I am a cyclists.  But this has really been a crappy downer year for me.  Besides getting older - I have been traveling with the wife and have not been as serious with my cycling as times past.  Some of you may know about Strava - it is a phone app that will keep track of you workouts - cycling for me.  It has been 30 years since I competed and I am getting older each year.  When you break a personal record on a cycling segment Strava will mark the segment with a PR for personal record.  This means that you had your best time ever over that segment.  If you are faster than anyone else - you will get a KOM - which stands for King of the Mountain.
This year I had a major drop off of PR's and it has been a while since I got a KOM.  A couple of weeks ago I thought I would make myself happy and go for a KOM because this has been such a poor year for me.  I reviewed all my routs and segments and found the perfect possibility.  A close friend held the KOM and in checking the time - I was sure I could take it.  It is also a reward to bump off someone I know.  I was all excited and set out to get my KOM.  I started the segment almost 10 miles/hour over the speed limit.  I thought to myself - this may be why riders of this segment had not gone faster - you could get a speeding ticket.  I was making really good time and was a head of schedule - then up came a stop sigh.  CRAP!  Okay it was a 4 way stop so I just blew through determined to get the KOM.  About a mile farther there was another stop sign - but this was a three way stop and I had to take a hard right.  So I blew through that as well - still a head of schedule.  Then a half mile and I came to another stop sign where I had to make a left turn and there is a thick hedge blocking the view - since I value my life I had to slow down but I did not stop.  Then almost to the end I came upon the final stop sign at a busy street where I had to turn left again.  I really slowed down - dodged some traffic, sprinted up a hill and finished - But I did not get the KOM by 3 seconds.  CRAP.  
I decided that my buddy and everybody that beat my time (less than 1% that ride the segment) cheated and must of had someone stopping traffic at all the stop signs so they would not have to slow down.  Since I almost always ride alone I just could not take the chances.  
And so I end this season - the worst ever.  I related this all to the wife and of course she gave no encouragement nor sympathy but said - this is the attitude and why you ride alone.  I haven't ridden to win for 30 years now, I just ride for fun (sort of) but it still sucks to be getting older and not better.
 
The Traveler

In all my experience with church leadership - I have never encountered anyone that has done a poor enough job for me to what to replace them.
 
The Traveler

I think there are two things that you have left out in your reference to attributes of G-d.
The first I would list is covenant.  G-d lives by covenant and he will do what he covenants to do.
The Second is that I do not believe it is necessary for G-d to do anything (especially in wrath) to cause our destruction - all he has to do is remove his protection or allow us to remove ourselves from his protection and we will be destroyed.
 
I believe there are 5 principles that define how G-d deals with us:
1. G-d will not do for us what we can do for ourselves.
2. G-d will do for us what we cannot do for ourselves.
3. G-d will not do  for us that which will be for our eternal detriment.
4. G-d will do  for us that which will be for our eternal benefit.
5. G-d will not do anything for us without our concurrency - meaning that because and by our agency G-d will not force anything upon us and we have the final say.
 
The Traveler

As mortals - I do not believe we are near enough to perfect to understand what perfection actually is.  And those that think they know perfection are much farther from it than they are thinking (especially when they pretend they know more about it than what they show by what they do).  I am not the example of perfect - but I have evolved in thinking that perfection has very little to do with being an expert in doctrine and a lot more about loving others.  I am inclined to think that as I get peeved with others over doctrine that as smart as I am about so many things - the smartness is not helping me at all concerning perfection.
 
The Traveler

As with a particle of faith, or even less (a desire to believe), a particle of understanding is sufficient to get us started and to keep us going. That is often the substrate for faith (hearing the word). I also think is part of why God deals with us in the 5 ways you listed!

No. It does not. Here is something very like the definition I have heard Intelligent Design advocates use:
in·tel·li·gent de·sign
noun
the theory that life, or the universe, cannot have arisen by chance and was designed and created by some intelligent entity.
Surely you see the difference, Rob.
"Intelligent Design" is not scientific. Period. It puts forward an untestable assertion and then invites others to disprove it. Note the "untestable" part, which might be better worded as "unfalsifiable". In order for a physical hypothesis to be scientific, it must be falsifiable. Otherwise, it is at best metaphysics. This may be many things—perhaps even true—but it ain't science.
If you still insist that "Intelligent Design" is science, please answer this: What test might conceivably be done under carefully observed, reproducible conditions which would disprove Intelligent Design? In principle, I mean. Give me some conceptually real test, however expensive or improbable, which, if successful, would prove that Intelligent Design is false.
What? You can't? Then Intelligent Design is not a scientific hypothesis of any sort.
In the most literal understanding of the phrase "intelligent design", all faithful Latter-day Saints believe it. Obviously. Duh. We believe God is intelligent and that he designed and created the entire universe, ourselves included. We also believe in revelation, prophets, and the existence of God, but none of those beliefs is scientific. If we claim they are, we are either lying or abysmally ignorant of the rudiments of science. The same is true with "Intelligent Design".

My parents taught that a kind or charitable person is not defined by being kind and charitable when it is expected, desired and appreciated.  Rather a kind and charitable person is kind and charitable even (and especially) when it is not expected, desired or appreciated.
 
The Traveler