Sin Now, Repent Later

[Bini]

I know it has its place because I've done it — sinned now and repented later. My best example would be when I was a teenager. I knew that many of my choices were poor decisions and went against the word of God. But I wasn't going to be sixteen forever, so I decided to "live life" and repent for it later. And that's what happened. I've settled down, got married and repented of my past.

So here's some questions. Where does "sin now, repent later" fit into Mormon Doctrine? Like I said before, it definitely has its place because I've done it and I'm pretty sure others have too. If you can have a few beers at a party (just once!), then confess to your bishop, repent and never do it again — what was the lesson learned? You got away with what you wanted to do and in the end you were pardoned. Does the Lord take into account whether a sin was premeditated or does it simply depend on how sincere you are with repentance?

I hope you can see what I'm trying to get at here. I actually think I'm starting to confuse myself more as I type this. But any light shed on this topic is greatly greatly appreciated!

[Dr T]

Paul addressed that issue when he said, "Should we sin more so grace can abound more?" His answer was "Let it not be so!" We ought not take advantage of grace IMO. I have but wish I didn't.

[Dravin]

Does the Lord take into account whether a sin was premeditated or does it simply depend on how sincere you are with repentance?

I for one believe that premeditation can influence the repentance process. Though it isn't because the Lord is raising the bar for repentance but because our hearts are harder in such a situation and thus it is harder for us to soften them and offer a broken heart and a contrite spirit. For similar reasons a Bishop may require a longer process for you to go through to repent because "I knew I could just repent and now I'm repenting, let's do this" is not the sign of a broken heart and a contrite spirit.

[GADBabaganoosh]

It's probably better to not sin, if you're planning on sinning. You're probably more accountable for something if you are planning on sinning then repenting later. In fact I believe i heard a talk where this practice was highly condemned. It makes a mockery of the atonement. I wish i could remember what the talk was, cause it was very powerful.

[bytor2112]

This practice shows a lack of understanding of the Gospel and can be VERY dangerous. Entering into sin to "enjoy" life shows , I think , that one's heart is far from the Lord and and don't think for a moment that the Adversary doesn'y know the weakness and will exploit this decision to ensnare and destroy if possible. Many have gone down this road and NEVER reurned. It does NOT fit in Mormon Doctrine....which is the Lord's Doctrine..... at all.

From Alma:

32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.

33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful acrisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.

36 And this I know, because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell; yea, and he has also said that the righteous shall sit down in his kingdom, to go no more out; but their garments should be made white through the blood of the Lamb.

[Just_A_Guy]

Well, here's the thing (IMHO). Repentance means you change. In the example you give, "repentance" isn't just a series of steps you go through. It's a journey where you start out as the type of person who would violate the Word of Wisdom, and end up as the type of person who wouldn't. You are, as Paul said, killing the old person, burying him/her, and becoming a new person in Christ Jesus.

A "premeditated sinner" has more than one journey to undertake. Not only must he change from the type of person who would [fill in appropriate sin] to the kind of person who wouldn't; but he also must change from the type of person who tries to game the Plan of Salvation into the type of person who respects the suffering of our Lord and would never consciously and intentionally add to it.

[mightynancy]

Sin now, repent later misses the point. Salvation isn't like a credit account where you can withdraw now and deposit later. It's about the becoming, about changing our nature. There's no tally; our goal is to become like Christ.

[Kawazu]

Is it wrong that I read "Sin Now, Repent Later" as a suggestion? If the devil had an advertising campaign, I'm sure the slogan would appear--in bold, large, capitals--on the face of all the leaflets.

The brochures could have statistics on the average lifespan of a man or woman in a given country. Then, since people tend to be living longer these days, it would be explained how it is better to, "save piety for old-age" because, "the odds are on your side."

[Jamie123]

This reminds me of something I once read in one of Phllip Yancey's books (I forget the title). It was a true story of a convicted criminal who killed a fellow prisoner and was subsequently sentenced to death for murder. When asked why he did it, he said "I can't stand living any longer and I want to die. Being a Catholic, I believe that if I committed suicide I would go to hell. But this way I can live long enough to repent of murdering that man, so when I'm executed I will go to heaven."

Yancey used this as an example of "abuse of Grace", but if I remember rightly he admitted it still presented a problem: If God's grace is totaly unlimited (and Christians of Yancey's tradition would insist that it is) what would prevent this man from obtaining forgiveness in the last days before his execution, and thus succeeding in his cynical plan?

[Blackmarch]

I know it has its place because I've done it — sinned now and repented later. My best example would be when I was a teenager. I knew that many of my choices were poor decisions and went against the word of God. But I wasn't going to be sixteen forever, so I decided to "live life" and repent for it later. And that's what happened. I've settled down, got married and repented of my past.

So here's some questions. Where does "sin now, repent later" fit into Mormon Doctrine? Like I said before, it definitely has its place because I've done it and I'm pretty sure others have too. If you can have a few beers at a party (just once!), then confess to your bishop, repent and never do it again — what was the lesson learned? You got away with what you wanted to do and in the end you were pardoned. Does the Lord take into account whether a sin was premeditated or does it simply depend on how sincere you are with repentance?

I hope you can see what I'm trying to get at here. I actually think I'm starting to confuse myself more as I type this. But any light shed on this topic is greatly greatly appreciated!

Procrastination is as sinister and deadly as pride and jealousy.

[Maya]

I think there has to be a difference later with those, who have sinned less and those who have sinned more. Even though our sinns will be cleaned and God will not remember them any more, we still did them. I think it would not be rigious if those that did very little wrong would "enherit" the same as those that sinned more. This "enheriting" I believe is more spiritual kind. Sinn always slows us down. We are not able to understand or obtein information, we are not ready to, and sinn makes holes we need to have time to fix. This gives those who do not sin a good leep foran!

So even if we can repend and will be forgiven it WILL cause us to be slower and it will take more time for us to get "there". Graver the sinns more time it needs. IMHO.

[pam]

Another problem with sinning now and repenting later is you never know if there will be a later. Life can end in a flash and you've lost your chance.

[ryanh]

If you want to understand better where it doesn't fit in, I suggest you read The Miracle of Forgiveness. President Kimball addresses the topic in that book.

I seem to recall (but cannot recall which talks, and cannot search them yet on lds.org) that this last conference contained several warnings in relation to this subject. One of the great dangers of the idea of ‘giving the sinful life a try’ is that there are many who think they will return. But later find themselves bound in addictions, worldly lusts, etc, and never do find their way home to repent. It is a very dangerous game to 'feed' one's natural man while 'starving' one's spirit, and thinking we can determine where the point of no return is, and that we will have the spiritual strength (despite the spiritual malnourishment) to make that turn. Very dangerous indeed. I dare say that those who are on the Lord's side don't engage in such eternal roulette games.

I second’s JAG’s comment that there is a second issue to be repented of – that of the willingness to try to game the Plan. It’s just one more example of where we all fall short of perfection. We also have to keep in mind, that “to whom much is given, much is required”. Having the greater knowledge brings greater accountability.

It's a good thing the Savior is so forgiving and understanding of our weaknesses that He was willing to Atone for even these types of sins. Thank goodness the Savior’s Atonement can encompass all these sins too, should we employ it.

Edit:

I did find a site dedicated just to General Conferences where the Oct 2010 talks are already searchable. General Conference

Two talks that I recall touching upon the subject were both in the Priesthood session.

The Three Rs of Choice By President Monson

Come unto Me with Full Purpose of Heart, and I Shall Heal You By Patrick Kearon

Edited October 28, 2010 by ryanh
Additional Info

[NeuroTypical]

Something to keep in mind that may or may not be applicable, depending on the sin:

All sins can be forgiven, but the mortal consequences of sin will often remain. From birth to early 20's, the brain is still forming pathways that, once formed, will be permanent throughout life. Various traumas and experiences can alter these pathways in ways that will burden the person until the day they die.

Sexual sins can leave permanent impacts on behavior and emotion. You can't "repent away" AIDS, or a baby. How many marriages have ended because no matter how complete their repentence, they just couldn't get over feeling like used goods or that they weren't worth having a good life?

Dabbling in drugs or alcohol may turn up ok, or you might find that you have the 'lucky alcoholism' genetic makeup, and just brought a lifelong burden on yourself. And I'm sure your loved ones had nothing better to do than watch you destroy your life and maybe theirs.

Not everyone who steals a car and takes a joyride gets to finish school and get married in the temple. Some decide they've got a taste for that lifestyle. Some suffer fatal blows to loving relationships built on trust. Some die (or kill an innocent) in the crash.

Yes, repentence is always available for the repentant. The Atonement of Christ is there to take up the slack for your immature stupid mistakes that leave marks which can't be fixed in this life. Your parents and loved ones came to earth to bear burdens - and since you decided to be one of them, they'll try their best I'm sure. They all think it would be nice if you would grow the heck up a little and stop acting like sin is such a frivolous thing.

It would sure suck if you get to go to the celestial kingdom, and a loved one doesn't make it, because they weren't able to forgive you for how much it hurt when you did that idiot thing back when you were 16 or whatever.

LM

(Someone might read this and think I'm being pretty hard on them. It's not the case. I'm being hard on me.)

Edited October 28, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[rameumptom]

I think D&C 130 gives us good counsel on this: the person who is more diligent in progressing in this life than another will have more of an advantage in the next.

If we delay our repentance or are slothful in our study and progression of the gospel, then we are basically limiting our eternal progression. We will only progress there in the same manner we do here. And if we took a "time out" from the gospel for a couple or several years, then those are years of progression we cannot get back. Whether such choices end up causing us to not be able to repent enough to obtain exaltation depends on many things.

Death bed repentance is enough to save us from Outer Darkness. But we may have to settle for salvation in a lower kingdom. And while Christ may forgive our transgression and cleansed us so we can be saved, we still have to become worthy of exaltation. In sinning, we also change our potential future. A divorced man cannot become bishop until he's been remarried at least 5 years. A divorced person cannot be a full-time Institute/Seminary teacher on the Church's dime. At least in the past (and probably still true today) a person who has committed adultery in the past cannot be a Patriarch.

If we choose to drop out of high school and be an addict for a few years, that limits many prospects for us in this life. The same of the young people who have a child out of wedlock, which almost guarantees them to live the rest of their lives in poverty.

Bini, you may have been one of the lucky ones to end up generally unharmed by your choice. But that is the thing: you were lucky. Still, there are probably several opportunities that you lost out on because of poor choices, and those are things that can affect you for a long time, even though you may not be aware of it.

[Wingnut]

I know it has its place because I've done it — sinned now and repented later.

I find that illogical. Just because you've engaged in the behavior and attitude you're discussing, doesn't mean it's okay, or that it's acceptable within Christ's doctrine.

[applepansy]

Our blessings are based on our obedience and knowledge. The reverse is true too. Our culpability and ability to truly repent is based on our obedience and knowlegde. I have no doubt that someone who didn't know it was wrong to drink beer (or whatever sin) has different repentance requirements (with theh Lord) than the person who knows its wrong, does it anyway with the thought "I'll repent tomorrow."

I have a child (age 30) who is inactive and has talked about formally removing his name from the church records. It started with "I can sin now and repent later."

The whole "sin now and repent later" notion forgets that repentance is painful.

[applepansy]

I find that illogical. Just because you've engaged in the behavior and attitude you're discussing, doesn't mean it's okay, or that it's acceptable within Christ's doctrine.

I agree Wing. There's no thank you button.

[Wingnut]

I agree Wing. There's no thank you button.

Refresh your page. :)

I want thanks's!!!

[martybess]

Extremely dangerous game to play. There are many who spend the rest of their lives and never find the way back who are continually tormented with the consequences because they gambled and lost and are now bound to their addictions. And there are many, many addictions. It could be said that one can become addicted to sin itself, ever needing more and more.

This is exactly why the Lord almost seems to downplay the suffering of righteous people by comparison. While it seems that He might concentrate harder on preserving the innocent from all the trials and inconveniences of life, the Lord incongruously spends almost all His time worrying about the guilty. Instead of concentrating all His approval on those who resist temptation, the Good Shepherd takes time to "leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it." (Luke 15:4.) (And we at times we might feel like the older son did in the prodigal son parable but the Lord explains to us in this parable why he spends so much time after the sinner.)

During His ministry on earth, Jesus spent a good deal of His time with the wicked, forgiving their sins and incurring the wrath of the law-abiding Pharisees. After all the pains we take to be upright, He tells us that "joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, who need no repentance." (Luke 15:7.)

The life of a sinner can be in and of itself hell, tormented and contorted to those who travel down this road. He is our parent and how would we feel or how do we feel if we have a child caught in this awful snare. Surely as a parent it must be hard. IF we are to be a good child then it must be our greatest desire to please God. To make him happy as a child to his parents do. It is how we honor him and show our thanks to him and it is the way he progresses, from Joy we bring him.

Edited October 28, 2010 by martybess

[ryanh]

I know it has its place because I've done it — sinned now and repented later.

I find that illogical. Just because you've engaged in the behavior and attitude you're discussing, doesn't mean it's okay, or that it's acceptable within Christ's doctrine.

I suppose with a little bit of liberty in filling out the thought process, it could be more logical, such as, 'I know one can be forgiven of premeditated sin because I have spoken with my Bishop (an authorized Judge in Israel), and have been found worthy . . . ' I'm guessing that's what Bini was intending.

It does "fit" in that Christ's Atonement does cover willful rebellion just as much as it covers mistakes, slipups, sins of omission, etc.

It's just such a dangerous thought process, and one that the adversary uses to lull us away into carnal security. Chapter 28 of 2Nephi points out many ways that the adversary uses to pull people away from the truth, and bind us in chains. Verse 8 sounds very similar to "sin now and repent later" idea.

8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

Edited October 28, 2010 by ryanh

[MarginOfError]

I suppose with a little bit of liberty in filling out the thought process, it could be more logical, such as, 'I know one can be forgiven of premeditated sin because I have spoken with my Bishop (an authorized Judge in Israel), and have been found worthy . . . ' I'm guessing that's what Bini was intending.

It does "fit" in that Christ's Atonement does cover willful rebellion just as much as it covers mistakes, slipups, sins of omission, etc.

It's just such a dangerous thought process, and one that the adversary uses to lull us away into carnal security. Chapter 28 of 2Nephi points out many ways that the adversary uses to pull people away from the truth, and bind us in chains. Verse 8 sounds very similar to "sin now and repent later" idea.

8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

The flaw I see in the attitude you are discouraging is that it's actually very unlikely that you're going to die tomorrow. More than likely, you'll be alive. So why not make choices that are going to maximize your happiness tomorrow. That's why I live by the philosophy of

Eat, drink, and be merry. For, tomorrow, we'll probably be alive.

[Bini]

Thanks everyone for the insight.

And no, I'm not asking people to condone this. I think most people hit rough patches as teenagers but I can't point fingers at others so I used my own personal experiences. I really like what RAM posted though. It makes sense.

I think D&C 130 gives us good counsel on this: the person who is more diligent in progressing in this life than another will have more of an advantage in the next.

[mrmarklin]

Reminds me of J Golden Kimball who famously said: "They want me to quit swearing, but I repent too d#*n fast!"

[Mute]

A wise man once said "It's never too late to procrastinate"