Can watching rated R movies keep you from a temple recommend?

[The Folk Prophet]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

Yes. 

Did you not promise me that you were putting me on your ignore list and I'd never hear from you again? What happened there?

[omegaseamaster75]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

Yes. 

I have to agree with Mormon gator, Schindlers list should be on everyone's watch list.  I can think of several others.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 minute ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

 

What kind of entertainment you consume is not part of the temple recommend interview.

I think that idea requires a vary narrow definition of the word "entertainment".

[The Folk Prophet]

Just now, omegaseamaster75 said:

I have to agree with Mormon gator

Shocking.

[Guest MormonGator]

 

3 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Did you not promise me that you were putting me on your ignore list and I'd never hear from you again? What happened there?

Once again showing your manners and class. 

[omegaseamaster75]

4 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Shocking.

What would be the objection to Schindler's list? If you can't bring yourself to watch it because it is rated R or you might see some nudity or hear foul language, then read the book.

Edited April 7, 2017 by omegaseamaster75

[The Folk Prophet]

12 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 

Once again showing your manners and class. 

Says the guy who's given me a snarky reply to every comment I've made to him in the last few weeks.

[Guest MormonGator]

23 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Says the guy who's given me a snarky reply to every comment I've made to him in the last few weeks.

When someone stands up to you, you think it's snarky or rude. It's obviously you've been pecking at me.

In my view, you act overly contentious online because if you acted that way in public to our faces-you'd get asked to leave every social engagemnt you were ever once invitied too, and you'd be the worlds loneliest person. I feel sorry for you, because you are obviously a very intellgent man who should find better ways of communicatiing.

Maybe it's just us (I mean you and I)-our communicaiton has always been terrible- two strong personalities will usually clash. Offline, I'm sure you are a very popular man with lots of friends and family who adore you and love your company. So it probably is for the best if we just agree to ignore one another, because obviously there is something that just isn't working between us. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by MormonGator

[The Folk Prophet]

17 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

What would be the objection to Schindler's list? If you can't bring yourself to watch it because it is rated R or you might see some nudity or hear foul language, then read the book.

Well there are several different implications in your question/comment here. The direct answer to the question is in the next statement. (For the record, I've seen Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan -- so as to "can't bring yourself to watch it" (which implies something sort of strange that's irrelevant), that is false.) My problem with Schindler's List is the nudity, language and violence.

I do suspect the book is probably a step in the right direction as to what sort of "entertainment" one takes into one's life. I have not read it though, so cannot really comment.

But, really, that wasn't the issue at all. I'm not even discussing whether it's okay to watch these shows, or even if the so-called good that would come from doing so offsets the potential bad. The comment made was that we must watch them to honor people. That's so much nonsense that it wasn't worth the reply I made that led to more hostility between me and Gator. I should really save my comments for moments when the point has at least enough what-seems-like-logic that it's worth the resulting vitriol.

[Fether]

4 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

I'm still confused on the whole not watching rated R issue. Is it a commandment? Is it just for the youth and adults can? Because I know soooooo many Mormons with R rated movies in their collection and I want to know what the origin of the rated R movie issue is and what the penalty for watching R rated movies is. Not taking the sacrament? Loss of a temple recommend? Someone with info on the matter please help me out because I am very confused.

We also need to understand a few things:

The spirit is a being, not a feeling. Some people will say, in response to someone saying something drives the spirit away, "I don't lose the spirit when to do x". This, in a broad sense, isn't true. The spirit will be offended by the same things wth everyone.

It is about wholesome media as already mentioned. There are countless pg-13 movies I won't go near and some R movies I could justify watching (though I choose not to). 

I get a little frustrated when I read you telling us you seeing R movies in members houses (Don't take personally, I have strong opinions and get frustrated easily  ). You can't get confused about a particular standard you have set and you see others breaking it. Even if that standard is church doctrine. Set a standard that YOU are going to live by.

I am rooming with 2 other RMs and they d things all the time that an have chosen to not do. Things dealing with Sabbath Day Observance, Law of Chastity, scripture study, etc. seeing them do these things doesn't strain my decision to live a certain way. I also believe there are things I do that they see and think I could repent for. 

What is the penalty?: that depends on the content. The spirit of worthiness is not at all, in ANY WAY, connected to the letter on the back of the DVD. I feel like I would lose the spirit more while watching a pg-13 movie with a lot of "soft" sexual content than I would from watching an R movie with lots of blood and violence (I would still definitely lose the spirit watching that too).

 

CONCLUSION:

So it all depends on how righteous and close to God you want to be. Are you willing to sacrifice a little spirit to watch a violent R movie? Or are you willing to sacrifice a violent R movie for some more spirit?

[The Folk Prophet]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

When someone stands up to you, you think it's snarky or rude. 

When someone refutes a point with a point then it's valid. When someone says, in various ways, "That's about what I expect from a jerk like you" as all your comments seem to be as of late then, yes, I think it is very rude and very snarky. If you want to stand up to me then explain your point and why it's valid.

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

you act overly contentious online because if you acted that way in public to our faces-you'd get asked to leave every social engagemnt you were ever once invitied too, and you'd be the worlds loneliest man. 

^ Example. Essentially calling me a jerk. Nice.

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I feel sorry for you, because you are obviously an intellgent man who should find better ways of communicatiing.

^ Example: Yeah...this isn't rude at all. 

4 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Maybe it's just us (I mean you and I)

No. I refute your points. You name call. If you want to fix this, stop name calling. Stop implying there's a problem with me. Stop treating me this way. Discuss the topics. Explain why you feel you are right. If we disagree in the end then we disagree. But there is no call for you to constantly castigate and vilify me personally.

8 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

So it probably is for the best if we just agree to ignore one another, because obviously there is something that just isn't working between us. 

If you want to ignore me then do so. I'd prefer it if you continue to insult me personally. It is uncalled for and inappropriate. If you want to debate something then debate with reason, logic, sources, and even opinion. I'm fine with that. I won't ignore you though. If you say something that I want to comment on -- agreement or disagreement, then I will do so. If I get snarky or rude (and I have sometimes) then feel free to call me on it. But stop acting like my disagreement in and of itself is the problem. There's less of a problem with the way I communicate and more of a problem with the fact that you don't like what I'm saying.

[The Folk Prophet]

24 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

It's obviously you've been pecking at me.

Actually I've mostly waited until there's something I consider pretty egregious to interact with you at all because I know you'll react to anything as if I'm pecking at you. 

[JohnsonJones]

3 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I have to agree with Mormon gator, Schindlers list should be on everyone's watch list.  I can think of several others.

I don't know if Mormon gator was saying that specifically (yes, what he stated about those who suffered and died, but that would apply to a LOT of movies out there, some of which I'm pretty sure most on these boards have never heard of). 

I think Mormon gator finds things in the movie which they feel is good.  I think Mormon Gator feels there are messages and things in the movies that are noteworthy enough that these messages are things everyone should understand and appreciate.

In that light, and with the greatest respect towards Mormongators opinion, I would hope to expound on my reasons why I might not feel it specifically would apply to me.

A movie may affect different people different ways, so what may be good for you, may not be good for me. We are different and should hold no grudges against each other for our different views and opinions.

 Schindler's list would not be uplifting for me.  I recognize the things Schindler did for the Jewish people, and that for many he was a hero.  He saved up to 1200 Jews.  This is notable.  However, to hold him up simply because of that, while ignoring that his sacrifice was not all that great compared to others, for me, does not make the film something that I NEED to see, especially since I think the message could be portrayed in a way that would NOT make the movie Rated R.  It was an artistic choice, and as art, we have our choices of what we choose to see or not to see.

However, there are other heroes out there, some with movies that could be just as notable, but which most Americans will never see.  Some of these individuals were at the same time as Schindler, but paid a heavy price, sometimes heavier.  One such individual would be Chiune Sugihara who saved between 6000 and 10000 Jews.  For a reward he spent much of the war in a Russian Prisoner Camp, then after being released came home to be dishonorably released from his job for dishonoring the Japanese government for what they called "that dirty Lithuania incident" (where he had disobeyed a direct order and instead issued thousands of visas to try to save as many Jews as possible).  This led to a life of menial labor and poverty.  He lived as a dishonored individual with no acclaim in Japan, and finally moved to the Soviet Union, where he still continued a life of small and menial labor.   It was only in 1968 was finally found by the Jews and then continued his life onwards.  Unlike Schindler who one never could get a straight answer as to why he did what he did, Sugihara actually DID have an answer. 

Quote

You want to know about my motivation, don't you? Well. It is the kind of sentiments anyone would have when he actually sees refugees face to face, begging with tears in their eyes. He just cannot help but sympathize with them. Among the refugees were the elderly and women. They were so desperate that they went so far as to kiss my shoes, Yes, I actually witnessed such scenes with my own eyes. Also, I felt at that time, that the Japanese government did not have any uniform opinion in Tokyo. Some Japanese military leaders were just scared because of the pressure from the Nazis; while other officials in the Home Ministry were simply ambivalent.

People in Tokyo were not united. I felt it silly to deal with them. So, I made up my mind not to wait for their reply. I knew that somebody would surely complain about me in the future. But, I myself thought this would be the right thing to do. There is nothing wrong in saving many people's lives....The spirit of humanity, philanthropy...neighborly friendship...with this spirit, I ventured to do what I did, confronting this most difficult situation—and because of this reason, I went ahead with redoubled courage.^[13]

I would like to note, for the Japanese of that period, HONOR was held to be even more important than status and money.  Sugihara knew that when he says there would be some that would complain (he had been told 3 times NOT to issue the visas, by direct order from Tokyo) his actions would be considered dishonorable.  He was LUCKY Japan lost the war as it could have been an worse than an execution for what he did.  You did not disobey orders from your higher ups in Japan, HONOR is a much bigger deal there than what we see in the West).

There are many notable people in the world and many have done notable things.  Some at great sacrifice.  I do not feel I need to watch a specific movie to know about their accomplishments.  For me, I do not feel Schindler's list is appropriate watching.  That does not mean it is inappropriate for you, it may be the best movie for you.  For me, however, it is not something I choose to watch, anymore than people try to hunt down movies on Sugihara that were made by communist or Israeli governments and feel they should be on everyone's watch list. 

In all, movies are art.  They are artistic.  We all have different forms of art that we may or may not appreciate.  An artform or piece of art which you may feel is the greatest thing for you, may do nothing for me.  In this light, while I may find movies or stories on Sugihara and think that it truly enlightens the sacrifice an individual makes for their fellowman, it may do nothing for another, while they may feel Schindler's list is the greatest movie in that regard, but it will not be a movie that is necessarily for me.

Edited April 7, 2017 by JohnsonJones

[Blackmarch]

7 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

I'm still confused on the whole not watching rated R issue. Is it a commandment? Is it just for the youth and adults can? Because I know soooooo many Mormons with R rated movies in their collection and I want to know what the origin of the rated R movie issue is and what the penalty for watching R rated movies is. Not taking the sacrament? Loss of a temple recommend? Someone with info on the matter please help me out because I am very confused.

Things have become so varied that it is now "choose righteously" as the rating system gets less and less reliable all the time. Can an r rated movie keep you from the temple? Probably depends what is in it.... In regards to an interview question.

 

However for stuff that seems more innocent and "ok" remember that  to be able to get the most out of sacred things we have to have virtous thought before God..... And that is hard to do if we  have memories of vulgarity, sex, and murder or extreme violence for entertainment going through our heads because of some sort of entertainment we partook of.

[Fether]

8 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

Ya because I enjoy world war 2 movies like Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan and don't feel totally sinful for watching that. Same thing with dealing with my mental illness and then watching the powerful movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I've never seen an R rated movie just for nudity or sex or even for the violence. I wasn't watching Saving Private Ryan for the violence. I love war movies that try to accurately portray what the real heores went through and I ultimately think everyone needs to see Schindler's List at least once in their life for historical value.

@MormonGator

I think another thing to keep in mind is our weaknesses and predispositions. I personally try avoid all things sexual. Nudity or no, it is a slippery slope for me and it is difficult to keep those thoughts out of my head once they enter. 

What im suggesting is that it isn't always the content that is bad (though there is for sure evil content), but what your mind goes to. I know someone who has struggled with the temple videos because of the portrayal of Adam and Eve. Though you never see anything below the colar bone, he knows they are naked and fights the temptation to mentally visualize seeing the rest.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Fether

[Guest]

"Can" it?  Yes.

"Will" it?  That's between you, your bishop/stake presidency, and the Lord.

[Backroads]

I'm at the point where I look at the why of the rating or just reserve the right to stop watching. 

The thing is, if it is R, it's for a reason.

And I am not exactly a purist here. Art exists and it can be rough. I personally think everyone should see "The Shawshank Redemption" if recommendations were up to me. I don't think sticking to mindless G stuff necessarily makes anyone a better person.

But if you're seeking out the bad stuff for its own sake... why? How does that make you a better person?

[Traveler]

 

I must admit that if an honest movie of my life was to be made in detail that it would have to be rated “R”.  Just the language that offended me greatly while serving (honorably???) in the military would without question require an R rating.

Over a decade ago I decided to quit watching any TV program that used the L-rd’s name in vein – it did not take long before there was nothing on TV that I could watch – including sports and news.  There may have been some children shows (like the neighborhood guy show) but I am not interested in such shows.

But then I remember from my youth that many criticized the skimpy outfits several young ladies wore in the 24th of July Parade.  President McKay responded by saying that he did not see anything offensive. 

I honestly wonder what it is in our society that most of us good LDS types are more offended by nudity than violence.  But what bothers me the most – as a young single adult I took a date to see a movie.  We were both so offended by the movie that we got up and left.  Not so long ago I watched the movie and could not for the life of me remember what offended me????

I am very worried by both what offends me currently in our entertainment as well as what does not offend me.

 

The Traveler

Edited April 7, 2017 by Traveler

[Vort]

9 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I honestly wonder what it is in our society that most of us good LDS types are more offended by nudity than violence.

I returned from my mission to Italy in 1984. I was expecting to be spiritually offended by nudity and implicit (and explicit) sex in ads and such -- and I was. But what I was not expecting was to be strongly offended by the violence that saturates our "entertainment". Within a year, I had become mostly inured to it again, but I have never forgotten how off-putting it was to see violence portrayed and even celebrated. It truly offends the Spirit.

[person0]

36 minutes ago, Vort said:

I returned from my mission to Italy in 1984. I was expecting to be spiritually offended by nudity and implicit (and explicit) sex in ads and such -- and I was. But what I was not expecting was to be strongly offended by the violence that saturates our "entertainment". Within a year, I had become mostly inured to it again, but I have never forgotten how off-putting it was to see violence portrayed and even celebrated. It truly offends the Spirit.

I had a similar experience, and likewise had mostly become desensitized within a year or so.  When I returned from my mission, during some down-time I watched a popular PG-13 movie that had been recently released.  The movie was not even entertaining to me because of the violence and dark themes, even though there was no nudity.  To this day, I do not like that particular movie, even though I have seen similar films with much less of a negative impression.

[NeuroTypical]

In the last decade, I've developed something of an 'artist's eye' towards things.  It came from paying attention as my wife taught our daughters stuff about how things work.  How to deal with fears: My wife talked about being terrified of scary movies and the various haunted houses in SLC, so she volunteered at one and learned how they operated.  Learning how movies and shows are made, how 'reality tv' comes from a production studio complete with camera sets, makeup crews, scriptwriters, directors, cast and crew, foley artists, etc.  Across the years, I'm now enjoying watching the closing credits more than the actual movie.  

It's not getting "desensitized", it's getting to see things the way they really are, not the way they're depicted to be.  Heaven forfend I should ever become desensitized!

Weirdest thing in the world: As I'd stumble across an immodest commercial or something, my thoughts became more along the lines of "she looks cold" or "that lighting really sucks" instead of "bounce the eyes!  no lingering glances!" thoughts.  I don't really notice bad language, it's there to attract a different audience than me.  (And profaning the Lord's name is still a turn-off).  I see movie/show violence through the eyes of the folks producing the scene.  I appreciate realistic depictions that align with overall movie direction.  I know where blooper reels come from, where actors and actresses (and politicians, and news anchors) just have uncontrollable giggles in the middle of serious weighty scenes. 

Yeah, I've had to learn to keep my mouth shut watching shows with my family.  Nobody wants to hear my random outbursts about "Look!  Now they're sharing their emotions!"  Or "Better make it good - that other show killed off your character in the second season!"  Or "You know things are bad when you die in the middle of your own duet."  

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Traveler said:

Not so long ago I watched the movie and could not for the life of me remember what offended me????

I am very worried by both what offends me currently in our entertainment as well as what does not offend me.

Don't worry, you'll forget about it again.

[Ironhold]

I work as a professional movie reviewer; my reviews are published in two different local newspapers. 

As a part of my job, I occasionally have to see R-rated movies. This is on top of the usual mix of G (increasingly rare), PG, and PG-13 movies.

In far too many instances, the films I've seen with the "R" rating are films that used gore, language, sexual content, and others to ramp the film up in order to make it "dark", "edgy", "mature" (as if), or otherwise make it seem like something it isn't. For every "Logan" or "The Equalizer", where the content is justified in context and the story is strong enough to last without it, I get a dozen "Don't Breathe" or "Shut In". I do, BTW, own copies of "Deadpool", "Jersey Boys", and a few other films of R-rating. 

That being said, I'm also seeing PG and PG-13 films that don't exactly do much to inspire or uplift, either. Most of these films were low quality nonsense, such as the live-action "Jem" movie (which completely paved over everything that made the original series so progressive and cutting edge) or last year's "Ghostbusters" debacle (in which an inexperienced director got so caught up in playing politics he forgot he was helming a science fiction movie).

In fact, save for "Logan", this year's been one long string of disappointments and drivel. It's all I can do right now to hang on until "Guardians 2" rolls around. 

[Ironhold]

Speaking of "Jersey Boys"...

Yes, it's a docu-pic about Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons. 

Yes, it's rated "R". 

...For cursing and smoking. 

The MPAA actually has hard-and-fast rules concerning how often a certain curse word can be used in a film based on rating. "Jersey Boys" exceeded things by such a significant margin, making it the primary source of the "R". And smoking? About 20 - 25 years ago, there was a push to have all films that depicted smoking being given an "R" rating just because. This push failed when people realized that "101 Dalmatians" would have to be retroactively assigned an "R" rating because some of the characters smoked, but the MPAA still takes into consideration how often people smoke in a work. Yes, I'm surprised by that as well. 

So yeah - it's "R" because of cursing and smoking. If the cursing and smoking were sanitized from the film, it'd have gotten a PG-13; a little more sanitizing would have gotten it a "PG". Believe it or not. 

So while the MPAA ratings generally *are* a good benchmark as to what you can expect from a film, it's not as entirely hard-and-fast as one might think. 

[eddified]

On 4/6/2017 at 6:11 PM, omegaseamaster75 said:

I have to agree with Mormon gator, Schindlers list should be on everyone's watch list.  I can think of several others.

I thought about seeing this movie. But after reading the description at commonsensemedia, I asked myself a question: "Do I really want/need to view this material?" The answer was, "no". 

I just felt that it wasn't in my best interest to see it.

I would like to make a generalized statement. This statement does not apply to just movies; it applies to art, video games, etc. The statement is:

Just because others (parents, trusted friends, etc) say some material is wholesome, does not make it so. Classical nude statues (just an example) are considered art by our culture, but this does not mean they are wholesome. I don't think God would approve of classical nude statues. Maybe He would, but I personally don't think He would. You should use your Gift of the Holy Ghost (if you have it) and the Light of Christ within you, to decide what is wholesome/uplifting and what is not. Do not let the world or your friends or your parents or some strangers on an LDS-themed internet discussion forum decide this for you.

Edited April 10, 2017 by eddified