New Stake Requirement

[askandanswer]

12 hours ago, Vort said:

The term "vaping" is so amazingly stupid-sounding that I'm a little surprised anyone would admit to it. Kind of like "tweeting", but worse.

it sounds vaguely vapid to me

[Vort]

5 hours ago, kapikui said:

Vort, I like about 90% of what you say,  I seriously missed you when you took your hiatus a while ago and stopped coming around myself since you're one of the few people around here who talks sense, but you really, REALLY have no idea what you are talking about in this instance.  I was going to say more, but it's late, and I really don't want to get myself worked up.  Let's just say I've spent about 30 years doing personal scientific experiments on how I best do things depending on how much of what kind of medication I am on, and have found things that work for me.   You might want to read some actual research on the subject.  

You may be right, kapikui. If I was unkind or unpleasant, I apologize. I make no claims to special revelatory knowledge on this topic.

But I do know my own experience, and in my experience, I have found that trying to do X by not doing X doesn't work so well. I have actually made the journey from someone who did not listen well to someone who learned to listen effectively. On that journey, I passed through the point where I felt that I listened better by distracting myself. And perhaps I did, in some sense or other. But it was only by learning not to distract myself, but instead by paying close attention to what was being said, that I finally became able to really listen carefully and profit from lectures and spoken presentations. I don't claim to be great at it now, but I can do it, and on occasion do it well -- and this by devoting myself to the task rather than to entertaining myself in some other way while tolerating the task.

It is my opinion that "multitasking" is a myth. That is to say, sure, we can do two or three or ten things at once, but only one of those things at a time can be consciously thought about. Our higher cognitive functions can be focused on only one thing at a time. So if we learn to knit, for example, we must concentrate on knitting. But after a time, our brains learn the patterns for knitting and shuffle that off from conscious control to an unconscious, or at least subconscious (not sure of the right term), process. It's like this in almost all areas of physical endeavor. You can bet that star NBA players aren't thinking through all of the athletic moves they're making. It's all reflex and muscle memory.

So-called "multitasking" consists of task-switching. Some people tend to be very good at task-switching, usually women more than men. In some situations, such task-switching can be useful. For example, mothers tend to get good at task-switching because of the number of simultaneous activities they're trying to control and react to. But in tasks that require concentration -- such as driving under difficult circumstances, or listening to someone -- task-switching is a poor strategy. This is why a driver facing bad traffic or road conditions will sometimes ask his passengers to shut up.

Thank you for your gracious compliments. I, too, have experienced many lessons teaching me not to respond late at night, for the very reasons you mention. You would think I might have learned those lessons by now. Maybe I'm too busy multitasking to grasp the lesson...

[unixknight]

I leave my phone in the car during church... and yeah, I miss phone calls or texts sometimes.  Oh well.  Owning a cell phone doesn't entitle the rest of the world to grab my attention whenever it wants. 

I do bring in a tablet with Gospel Library loaded onto it.  That way I can get the benefit of having a device to run that software without the possibility of a disruption or distraction coming in from the outside world.  True, I can use it to distract myself (and I'd be lying if I said I didn't use it to check the results of the Formula One race in Russia last Sunday...) but the way I see it, if someone's bored and looking for a distraction, there are plenty of ways to do it. 

[Jedi_Nephite]

On 4/30/2017 at 10:37 PM, pam said:

I didn't know this....but I NEVER use my phone for anything at church so I never noticed.  In fact, I leave my phone in my car.

Several years ago, before I had a phone with access to digital scriptures, I would always make a point to leave my phone in the car.  However, on one particular Sunday, I forgot to do so.  As a result, during Sacrament meeting, in the middle of the closing prayer, my phone suddenly started to ring, playing the theme music to Indiana Jones.  To make things worse, my phone had somehow managed to wedge itself in my pocket in such a way that I couldn't reach it quickly to get it to stop ringing.

[anatess2]

Newflash: 

1.)  A vibrating phone in the middle of sacrament prayer can be heard all the way to the back of my chapel.
2.)  There's a ward in Texas where there are so many babies that you can barely hear the sacrament prayer, let alone a vibrating phone.
3.)  There's a ward in the Philippines where you oftentimes hear the neighbors arguing/laughing over their fences next-door over the sacrament prayer.

These 3 wards have completely different atmospheres and everybody has adopted to the level of noise common in their ward in their desire for reverence.  Each bishop/stake president I'm sure also takes into account these different atmospheres in giving out instructions.

 

As for me:  When I go to Church, the most valuable things of my life are with me - my husband and 2 children.  I, therefore, find no required use for a phone.  My phone stays in the house all day long.  It's my Sabbath offering to God.  I do have an iPad that doesn't have cell service that is my "Sabbath device".  This iPad is only used for spiritual study (not just on Sundays, of course).  I don't always bring this iPad with me everyday.  I only use it when I plan spiritual activities - i.e., visit teaching, FHE, etc.  I do have my phone and the other iPad that I use everyday for everything including Scouts (my calling).  When I find myself doing impromptu scripture study, I use my phone or my regular iPad or whatever device I have on me at the time.  If I take notes outside of the Gospel Library, I just "cloud it over" to be picked up by my Sabbath device.  Yeay technology.

So, you might ask... but, but, but... what if... emergency.  Or you want to tell the bishop in the front something from the back.  You'll be surprised at all the options available to you without needing a device that can house Facebook.  You just need to get a little creative.  So, it's not as convenient... well, that's the point.  If it's not as convenient to reach out, it's also not as convenient for temptation to reach in.  Very small sacrifice to make to enhance the holiness of the Sabbath experience.

But, that's just me.

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Newflash: 

1.)  A vibrating phone in the middle of sacrament prayer can be heard all the way to the back of my chapel.
2.)  There's a ward in Texas where there are so many babies that you can barely hear the sacrament prayer, let alone a vibrating phone.
3.)  There's a ward in the Philippines where you oftentimes hear the neighbors arguing/laughing over their fences next-door over the sacrament prayer.

These 3 wards have completely different atmospheres and everybody has adopted to the level of noise common in their ward in their desire for reverence.  Each bishop/stake president I'm sure also takes into account these different atmospheres in giving out instructions.

You make a very good point.

[pam]

2 hours ago, Jedi_Nephite said:

Several years ago, before I had a phone with access to digital scriptures, I would always make a point to leave my phone in the car.  However, on one particular Sunday, I forgot to do so.  As a result, during Sacrament meeting, in the middle of the closing prayer, my phone suddenly started to ring, playing the theme music to Indiana Jones.  To make things worse, my phone had somehow managed to wedge itself in my pocket in such a way that I couldn't reach it quickly to get it to stop ringing.

That's funny.  People would be in for quite a shock because my ringtone is "Who let the dogs out who who who who?

[zil]

8 minutes ago, pam said:

That's funny.  People would be in for quite a shock because my ringtone is "Who let the dogs out who who who who?

Complete with a picture of Tommy Lee Jones on your screen-saver?

[pam]

1 minute ago, zil said:

Complete with a picture of Tommy Lee Jones on your screen-saver?

Okay I don't get the Tommy Lee Jones comment.

 

[zil]

3 minutes ago, pam said:

Okay I don't get the Tommy Lee Jones comment.

OK, it was Will Smith in the scene, but I figured you were more of a Tommy Lee Jones type...

 

[NightSG]

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

2.)  There's a ward in Texas where there are so many babies that you can barely hear the sacrament prayer, let alone a vibrating phone.

Only one?  I'd say it's more likely that, aside from YSA wards, there might be one where you actually can hear most of the meeting over the kids.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Only one?  I'd say it's more likely that, aside from YSA wards, there might be one where you actually can hear most of the meeting over the kids.

We've got a ward where half the ward is primary age.  We hear the meeting just fine.

[NightSG]

7 hours ago, Vort said:

But in tasks that require concentration -- such as driving under difficult circumstances, or listening to someone -- task-switching is a poor strategy. This is why a driver facing bad traffic or road conditions will sometimes ask his passengers to shut up.

Now, why is it so many of the passengers can't grasp this, even when they can clearly see the situation arise?  Or they feel the need to give me a blow-by-blow commentary on exactly what I'm looking right at?

If I'm the passenger in this situation, I immediately start looking other directions, and relaying only useful information that I don't believe the driver already has; clear lanes to avoid the issue, 18 wheeler tailgating, etc.

[NightSG]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

We've got a ward where half the ward is primary age.  We hear the meeting just fine.

Check the sign; sounds like you got the wrong church.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, NightSG said:

Check the sign; sounds like you got the wrong church.

Hah!

Actually, I believe (yes, I'm kinda biased) it's because most of the ward homeschools.  And we're all pretty active about that.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Guest

[Iggy]

On 5/3/2017 at 9:15 AM, MormonGator said:

Okay, new rule. No more calling ourselves fat. That goes for @Iggy, @Eowyn and all other sisters/brothers. Don't talk down about yourself that way! 

Fact is fact - I am what I am. Am not and have never talked down about myself. 6 months ago I was morbidly obese, starting this week I am fat-have lost THAT much weight. I am old. I have white hair. I am cranky.

[jerome1232]

On 5/2/2017 at 2:52 PM, zil said:

You do know that they've asked speakers NOT to ask the congregation to follow along in their scriptures, right?  For some reason, the Church has decided that Sacrament meeting should be a time of speaking and listening, not reading (unlike the other 2 hours).  I don't think it such an awful thing to just follow their counsel.  And, frankly, I have to think that Apostles know what they're about, so if they council to not use these tools during the ordinance of the Sacrament, I'm more inclined to think it wise to follow their counsel and learn a better way to focus on what I should, than to make a list of all the good reasons for using the tools (like @Carborendum, I think there are plenty of good reasons, and I don't doubt that others know them without my help).  Similarly, I have learned through experience that following priesthood counsel is wiser than not following it, regardless.

I see my attempt at making an absurd comparison wasn't as absurd as I thought.

I'm actually pretty surprised people have been asked that, I do get it, but it's also not outright banning them. I also did mention I'd follow counsel did I not?

On 5/2/2017 at 3:18 PM, Vort said:

There is a world of difference. In our society, books are not a distraction. And if someone does bring a steamy novel to read during sacrament meeting, it's not a distraction to those sitting nearby, to children restless in the pews, etc.

I beg to differ, books are no different than a screen. It doesn't even have to be a steamy novel. If I'm reading Rough Stone Rolling in sacrament I may be reading a great book and learning about Joseph Smith, but I'm not really "there" with my fellow brothers and sisters. Personally when I am reading a book my awareness of what's around me drops do nil. I get really focused in to what I am reading.

Then there's the fights that breakout between my kids over who gets which book. That's certainly a distraction.  (I do have three toddlers, I haven't actually *heard* a sacrament talk in a long time)


I thought I mentioned in my OP that I do get it, but I was trying to explain why I think a phone could be just fine in sacrament (at the hands of a mature adult, a YSA ward as per the original poster *is* another story)

[NightSG]

On 5/2/2017 at 4:52 PM, zil said:

You do know that they've asked speakers NOT to ask the congregation to follow along in their scriptures, right?

For some of us, it's far more distracting to half-remember the rest of that bit of Scripture that was just quoted.  It's like having that one little bit of trivia that bugs you all day long, (one line of an otherwise remembered song can be even worse about this) constantly drawing your mind away from whatever you want to focus on, until you look it up and then it loses its power.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, NightSG said:

For some of us, it's far more distracting to half-remember the rest of that bit of Scripture that was just quoted.  It's like having that one little bit of trivia that bugs you all day long, (one line of an otherwise remembered song can be even worse about this) constantly drawing your mind away from whatever you want to focus on, until you look it up and then it loses its power.

So, are you saying you actually open your scriptures to follow along with all the verses quoted from the pulpit?

[NightSG]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

So, are you saying you actually open your scriptures to follow along with all the verses quoted from the pulpit?

Not all; I'll take the speaker's word for who begat who in I Chronicles, but sometimes a quote triggers a memory of some nearby part that's also (or sometimes more) relevant.