Why Feminism is Bad

[anatess2]

Feminism is not about Women doing THE SAME THING as Men.  That's NOT Feminism even as America seems to think it is.  Feminism is developing UNIQUELY FEMALE traits that is of prime benefit to society and putting importance to it while at the same time developing UNIQUELY MALE traits that is of prime benefit to society and putting importance to it.

The first wave of feminism was women suffrage.  This was true feminism - the right to vote, legal rights, property rights etc. was NECESSARY for society to put importance to uniquely female traits in the public arena of ideas.

The 2nd wave of feminism was primarily a battle for the women's right to work.  This was true feminism - the right to work was NECESSARY for society to put importance to the UNIQUE contributions of women in the capitalist workplace of societal productivity.  Domestic violence was also battled in this wave which was also truly Feminist.   In this wave, feminism started to swing the pendulum too far when a shift in the role of Provider was stripped from Men through the genuinely compassionate intentions of society to aid women in the workplace, removing barriers including the Uniquely Female trait of Motherhood - replacing such with government aid.

The 3rd wave of feminism was about reproductive rights and sexuality and the fighting against the Patriarchy.  This is where the pendulum did not just swing too far, it broke out of its string.  THIS IS NOT FEMINISM.  Therefore, @MarginOfError, @Suzie,@MormonGator, @Godless, etc., if you claim to be a Feminist today, this is who you are associating with - Women who are fighting a wage gap because more Women choose to be nurses  and K-12 teachers whereas more Men choose to be doctors and college professors... like this is a bad thing.   Women NATURALLY do not work nor put in advanced educational degrees as much than Men because they put more priority to home life - the woman works shorter hours, takes more leaves of absences, or takes off prime birth years out of the workplace, etc.  THIS IS A GOOD THING.  They are the ones who tend to babies, go and take kids to doctors, deals with the PTA, etc.  This is a role naturally suited to the female biology as well as the female psyche.  Today's Feminist would demand - No.  My job is important, my husband can be the stay at home dad, take the day off to attend the kids' PTA meetings and take them to the doctor.  THIS IS NOT FEMINISM.  This is THE WOMAN rejecting A WOMAN'S STRENGTH and deeming it unimportant.  The MALE strength is in aggressive competitiveness which is spent outside of the home fighting for resources to take home.  It is uniquely male.  Therefore, they go for the advanced degrees, work the long hours, compete in the marketplace as is natural to their physiology.

What other battles are women fighting in this 3rd wave?  Reproductive Rights.  THIS IS NOT FEMINISM.  This is the women rejecting responsibility.  Proof - The father of the child has no voice in the matter when the fetus is in the stomach.  Once the fetus is out of the stomach, the father of the child is LEGALLY OBLIGATED to pay for his care.  But, but, women get raped or their health is at risk!  Okay, let's give you that - let's declare all rape and health risks legal and make all other abortions illegal... of course feminists won't go for that.  So, yes, this is a rejection of the uniquely female responsibility of bearing children.

Sexuality - another 3rd wave battle.  Also NOT FEMINIST.  Caitlyn Jenner is the woman of the year.  That about sums that up.

And that is why women today instinctively reject modern feminism - it's just not what makes us uniquely women.  We're losing our identity.  Especially when the shrill feminists of today tell us about the evil Patriarchy - the same system that heroically demanded that women and children go first on the boats...

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by anatess2

[MBKnabe]

19 minutes ago, Vort said:

As a political and social movement in the United States of America, feminism as a whole is rotten down to its dark heart. It exists to destroy the family and to widen the gap in the Satanic "war between the sexes."

Feminists in the US don't agree on everything.  I am super against abortion. But you can't dismiss the whole movement because of one issue where we disagree. I see issues in the way we treat women as a society at large and we HAVE to fix that. Feminism, for now, is the best way to address that. And I can simultaneously fight for the rights of all women, while defending the rights of the unborn. We need feminist, equality driven, woman centered points of view on the side of the Pro-Life movement. It adds credibility to the argument against abortion.

When women kill their own off-spring, something is seriously wrong with society. Pro-choice activists use abortion as a band-aid to temporarily fix the problem of an unwanted pregnancy. What we need is to fix the system. Society has to empower women to raise their children. We need men to step up and be good fathers, so that mothers don't have to do it alone. We need paid maternity leave so that women can help financially provide for their children, and have time to bond with them. These things will end abortion. When women are supported, empowered and capable, they will not willingly kill their children. Feminism can help provide that.

Edited June 26, 2017 by MBKnabe

[The Folk Prophet]

2 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

Feminism, for now, is the best way to address that.

No. The gospel is.

3 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

When women are supported, empowered and capable, they will not willingly kill their children.

No. When women are righteous and Christlike they will not willingly kill their children.

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, MBKnabe said:

Really? Not militant groups throughout the world that murder Christians in cold blood, in the name of religion? Not wars that devastate homes and livelihoods, leaving thousands of stranded refugees with nothing but the clothes on their backs? Not drug addiction, rapists, murderers and criminals? With all of these atrocities going on, the greatest threat is from people who want to be treated with fairness?

Modern day feminism is not about being treated with fairness. Feminism today is about breaking down the structure of the homes, gender, and the patriarchal order where the father is head of household and presides in the home. This removal of the father and his role in the home is a strongly argued point in why children are increasingly turning to violence, drugs, gender issues, etc. You want to speak of murder, how about the millions of aborted fetuses murdered every year that the new feminism not only supports but promotes?

[MBKnabe]

12 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

No. The gospel is.

No. When women are righteous and Christlike they will not willingly kill their children.

Yes, but  despite what Prophets have said on the sacred nature of women, the equality between the sexes, and the importance of men and women as a unit, sexism within the church is rampant. The Gospel is perfect, but people are flawed. Focusing on issues of gender inequality within our culture and trying to create a more equal society can function within the church to help people become more Christlike. Christ loved, valued and respected the women in his life. Many Mormons don't. Mormon culture as a whole could do a lot better at that. That's why we need to integrate feminism into our culture. Because people are not listening to what the gospel actually teaches about how we treat our fellow human beings and that needs to change. Hence, I am a Mormon Feminist and I try to help others understand feminism. 

[anatess2]

I'm gonna go ahead and share the talk I gave on Mother's Day.  THIS is what Feminism should look like.

 

Good morning brothers and sisters.  I would like to greet all the women, young and old, single, married and widowed, a Happy Mother’s Day.  And with that, I would also like to thank all the men for making this day special for us.  You know just how to make a woman happy – a mere display of appreciation for the everyday things we do that a lot of times go unnoticed.

Elder Quentin L. Cook of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles recounted an incident with a woman on a newspaper editorial board who asked for a description of the role of women in the Church.  She learned that women have a very significant role in the Church and that they hold varied positions from teachers of primary children to presidents of a worldwide organization.  She also learned that none of these positions provide monetary compensation to which she declared, “I don’t believe women need any more unpaid jobs.”

Unfortunately, this has become a very common measure of a person’s worth in our society today - how much money you get paid for what you do so that the unpaid or low-paid job of home-making and child-rearing has small value in society’s perspective.  If you ask the female children of today, what do you want to be when you grow up?  You would probably hear more in the lines of I want to study for a career in a STEM field, but you probably won’t hear somebody say, I am studying to be a home-maker.  It just doesn’t sound prestigious.

Yet, the divine nature of women is rooted in Motherhood.  Prophets have repeatedly called motherhood, “the highest, holiest service… assumed by mankind”.

<Brother X> reminded us in Gospel Principles class last Sunday of Moses 4:26 that states,  “And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living”.  Eve was a mother even before she exercised her free agency to partake of the fruit, leave the garden, and bear children.  And like Eve, our divine nature of motherhood began before we were born in the same manner that worthy men were foreordained to hold the priesthood in mortality.  These two spiritual roles of Priesthood and Motherhood, directly tied to our eternal gender, drive the Plan of Salvation forward from beginning to completion with the Atonement of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, providing the means by which we can go back to our Heavenly Father.

A lot of times, especially when we are focused on worldly pursuits, we forget the importance of fulfilling our divine call to Motherhood, especially as, unlike the Priesthood, it doesn’t require ordination in mortality.  Our role as Mothers is an authority inherent and inalienable to us at birth.  When we understand the magnitude of motherhood, it becomes clear why prophets have been so protective of women’s most sacred role in the Plan of Salvation.  While we tend to consider ourselves as mothers only after we give birth to our own child, God the Father and Adam shows us that it is a lot more than that.  It is the essence of who we are as women.  It defines our very identity, our divine stature and nature, and the unique traits our Father gave us.

So then, if it is more than just maternity and raising our own children, what exactly is Motherhood?  Interestingly, we have several handbooks that the Church released to guide men in their Priesthood duties but there is no corresponding handbook for Motherhood duties.  So women are guided by their own maternal instincts as to the role of Mothers in the Plan of Salvation.  Our physiology, so different from men, is a rough indicator of what mothers are supposed to.  We have recently had the experience of having Carolina wrens using the ceiling fan in our patio to build their nest.  It was so fascinating to watch these birds as they go about their gender roles in perfect harmony as they raised baby birds!  The female bird laid the eggs, incubated them, hatched them, fed them, and eventually kicked them out of the nest so they can learn to fly.  The male bird flew in and out of the screened-in patio, perfectly timing the flapping of the doggie door to bring food to his family.  He stayed close, hopping from fan blade to fan blade protecting his family from the monstrous dogs below.  In our little backyard, we also have some chickens – all females.  These chickens are fun to watch.  Since we don’t have roosters, our hens can’t raise their own baby chicks.  But I happened to get 3 fertilized eggs from the farm that I took home and put in the chicken coop.  My hens immediately gathered the eggs and sat on them just like it was their own babies.

Just like these little critters, we, humans, also have this natural gender role instinct in the raising of children for the survival of our species.  But, the Plan of Salvation requires more than just surviving mortality.  The Plan of Salvation requires spiritual growth and coming closer to Jesus Christ who is our exemplar and our redeemer.  In this, our gender role as Mothers is a great responsibility.  Mothers give us life, nurture us, feed us, comfort us, teach us, and encourage us to hope and to dream and to achieve.  Mothers heal our soul.

Just like everything else in our lives, there are some of us women to which Motherhood comes easier than others.  They just have that natural capacity for compassion, kindness, patience, and forbearance.  To other women like me, it doesn’t come as naturally.  We have to work on it, develop it, be frustrated with it, and a lot of times we want to just dump it off to other women who seem better at it before our children grow up learning the wrong things.  Sometimes we are even more comfortable doing the male duties of physical protection and providence more so than seeing to the emotional needs of children.  Knowing that Motherhood is a divine calling that God has given to women, it gives me hope that if I just give Motherhood my very best, the atonement of Christ will make up the difference.  I am reminded of Eve and how she must have felt after Cain slayed Abel.  Eve must have been extremely strong in faith and resolutely steadfast to keeping her covenants to bring to pass the eternal life of man.  Eve’s fulfillment of her role as Mother made it possible for Adam to fulfill his Priesthood role.

In my own life, I have had the privilege of being raised by a mother who quit her career as a midwife to do the unpaid job of Motherhood fulltime.  I love my mother so much and I am who I am now mainly because of her.  Growing up with my mother always at home and ready to attend to all 4 of her children’s needs made me wonder how it is possible to raise children, maintain a household, and have a career too.  But, she was not the only mother that has had an influence on me.  My grandmother has also left her legacy on me.  She was widowed when my grandfather died in World War II only 2 years after my mother was born.  My grandmother was the mother who taught me what love truly means and the eternal nature of families as she demonstrated her undying love to her husband.  She was the mother who taught me that women will have to be prepared to do the fatherly duties of providing for and protecting of children because there will come a time when those skills will be called upon.  She had her own business as a seamstress during a period of time after World War II when jobs were so scarce that women were barred from the workplace.  My grandmother was a working woman and so she sent her children to boarding school so that the Catholic Church nuns can help her with her Motherhood duties. 

I also had my godmother who left her spiritual influence on me.  She was the mother who taught me to trust in the Lord and to seek always the will of God.  She reminded me to say my prayers before bed.  She read me scripture passages to comfort me when I am not feeling well.  And when I turned into a rebellious teen-ager her knees would get bruises from walking on her knees with her head bent in prayer from the back of the Catholic Church all the way to the altar.  She offered that physical sacrifice to seek God’s mercy on my behalf.

I also had 2 aunts who were both single that had their influence on me.  They supported each other as they lived singly and I felt very special that they decided to dote on me as their own daughter.  These 2 aunts never found worthy men to marry and have their own children but they have been mothers to a lot of us.  I thought for a while I was just very special when I would have awards ceremonies or sports tournaments and I have my 2 aunts cheering me on until I found out they were also going to my cousin’s awards ceremonies and sports tournaments.  But I was the only one they took to the movies as it costs quite a bit of money to go to the movies in the Philippines.  These mothers taught me to love movies, which, as it turns out, was very important in getting my husband to marry me.  My husband loves movies too and there was a time when we watched 3 movies every weekend. 

I am forever grateful to all these important mothers in my life – my own mother who I love with all my heart - and the other mothers who have contributed to who I am today - my widowed grandmother, my godmother, my 2 single aunts without children of their own – they all nurtured me, fed me, taught me, comforted me, encouraged me, took me out of despair to hope.  They brought me closer to Christ with their compassion and kindness and selflessness.  They healed my soul.

I love the restored gospel and the modern prophets who restored the truths of our eternal nature in the building and organization of our families.  I love this Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that is God’s true church on earth.  I love our Heavenly Father and His only begotten Son, our brother, our Savior and our Redeemer, Jesus Christ.  May all of us women fulfill our calling as Mothers to the best of our abilities in our own unique circumstances and may all of the men fulfill their calling to the Priesthood to the best of your abilities in your own unique circumstances.  And may we work together in bringing all mankind to Christ.  I say these things humbly in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

[MBKnabe]

18 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Modern day feminism is not about being treated with fairness. Feminism today is about breaking down the structure of the homes, gender, and the patriarchal order where the father is head of household and presides in the home. This removal of the father and his role in the home is a strongly argued point in why children are increasingly turning to violence, drugs, gender issues, etc. You want to speak of murder, how about the millions of aborted fetuses murdered every year that the new feminism not only supports but promotes?

No feminist wants to take fathers out of the home. What feminists refer to as "The Patriarchy" is a completely different concept from righteous "Patriarchal Order". I think mixing up those two terms is where our fundamental disagreement comes from. The Patriarchy is systematic dominion of women. Patriarchal order is the way Heavenly Father organizes homes, congregations and families. Those two ideas are not at odds, because in the patriarchal order you refer to "No ^apower or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the ^bpriesthood, only by ^cpersuasion, by ^dlong-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;" 

[Rob Osborn]

3 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

Yes, but  despite what Prophets have said on the sacred nature of women, the equality between the sexes, and the importance of men and women as a unit, sexism within the church is rampant. The Gospel is perfect, but people are flawed. Focusing on issues of gender inequality within our culture and trying to create a more equal society can function within the church to help people become more Christlike. Christ loved, valued and respected the women in his life. Many Mormons don't. Mormon culture as a whole could do a lot better at that. That's why we need to integrate feminism into our culture. Because people are not listening to what the gospel actually teaches about how we treat our fellow human beings and that needs to change. Hence, I am a Mormon Feminist and I try to help others understand feminism. 

I would say that women in the church are treated way better than just about all others in the world outside the church. The myth that patriarchy is sexism is just another falsehood promoted by modern feminists. When I see a woman in my neck of the woods who is highly valued and empowered they are almost always LDS. 

[Rob Osborn]

2 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

No feminist wants to take fathers out of the home. What feminists refer to as "The Patriarchy" is a completely different concept from righteous "Patriarchal Order". I think mixing up those two terms is where our fundamental disagreement comes from. The Patriarchy is systematic dominion of women. Patriarchal order is the way Heavenly Father organizes homes, congregations and families. Those two ideas are not at odds, because in the patriarchal order you refer to "No ^apower or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the ^bpriesthood, only by ^cpersuasion, by ^dlong-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;" 

Mormon feminists see the patriarchal order as bad and sexist. This is one reason why they want the priesthood.

[The Folk Prophet]

10 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

Yes, but  despite what Prophets have said on the sacred nature of women, the equality between the sexes, and the importance of men and women as a unit, sexism within the church is rampant.

Prove it.

10 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

The Gospel is perfect, but people are flawed.

So the answer is to go outside the gospel?

10 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

Focusing on issues of gender inequality within our culture and trying to create a more equal society can function within the church to help people become more Christlike. 

Haven't seen it, read it, or ever heard anything of the sort preached by the scriptures, the brethren, or otherwise.

10 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

Christ loved, valued and respected the women in his life. Many Mormons don't. 

That's because Mormon's are people who need to repent too.

Ah, and incidentally, Christ loved, valued and respected the men in his life. Many Mormons don't.

10 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

Mormon culture as a whole could do a lot better at that.  

Explain. How does current "Mormon" culture have any bearing on the matter whatsoever?

10 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

That's why we need to integrate feminism into our culture. 

No. All we need to do is follow Christ and His gospel.

10 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

Because people are not listening to what the gospel actually teaches about how we treat our fellow human beings and that needs to change. 

Wouldn't the obvious answer be then to persuade people to listen to what the gospel teaches about how we treat our fellow human beings?

Edited June 26, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[MBKnabe]

50 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Mormon feminists see the patriarchal order as bad and sexist. This is one reason why they want the priesthood.

Very few women want the priesthood. I am a Mormon feminist. I understand that the priesthood is a sacred calling for men. We have other things. Ordain Women was a small but vocal group of people who were misguided in believing that they needed the priesthood in order to be truly equal. The VAST majority of Mormon women are happy with our place in the church. The vocal minority, doesn't define feminism for most Mormon women.

Edited June 26, 2017 by MBKnabe

[The Folk Prophet]

Just now, MBKnabe said:

believing that they needed the priesthood in order to be truly equal. 

By definition, women DO need the priesthood to be "truly" equal.

[Rob Osborn]

2 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

Very few women want the priesthood. I am a Mormon feminist. I understand that the priesthood is a sacred calling for men. We have other things. Ordain Women was a small but vocal group of people who were misguided in believing that they needed the priesthood in order to be truly equal. The VAST majority of Mormon women are happy with our place in the church. The vocal minority, doesn't definite feminism for most Mormon women.

The truth is that the vast majority of mormon women who are happy in the church do not consider themselves feminists. The vast majority of mormon feminists I have dialogued with on the other hand are unhappy and do want the priesthood.

[MBKnabe]

Just now, The Folk Prophet said:

By definition, women DO need the priesthood to be "truly" equal.

So you're suggesting that equality is synonymous with sameness? Men are dollar bills and women are silver dollars. They're both equal in worth. They just have different constructions and different roles. Therefore, we don't need to be the same to be equal.

[MBKnabe]

8 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

The truth is that the vast majority of mormon women who are happy in the church do not consider themselves feminists. The vast majority of mormon feminists I have dialogued with on the other hand are unhappy and do want the priesthood.

Some women don't consider themselves feminist because they misunderstand what feminism means, but they still espouse many feminist ideas - specifically striving for equality. Those who want the priesthood are just shouting louder than the majority of Mormon feminists. And besides, feminism is not one thing. People are individuals! They have different thoughts about what feminism means. But one thing it definitely doesn't do is try to diminish the important roles of men. Don't feel threatened by women reasserting our rights. We don't want to take anything away from you.

[The Folk Prophet]

3 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

So you're suggesting that equality is synonymous with sameness? Men are dollar bills and women are silver dollars. They're both equal in worth. They just have different constructions and different roles. Therefore, we don't need to be the same to be equal.

Equality is socially and politically typically understood in two ways, equality of opportunity and equality of outcome (depending on which side of the left/right scale one falls upon). However, the church teaches equality of value. Men being given the priesthood and therefrom the rights to keys, which is the right to preside, distinctly and literally creates a difference in the opportunity and outcome potential for women as related to men.

In other words, the fact that a woman can never be president of the church IS inequality. Obviously.

The real debate should be whether inequality is always bad. It's not particularly helpful for we LDS to redefine the meaning of the word equality and then claim equality in the church.

[Just_A_Guy]

The tension, as I see it, is that fundamentally the Church is teaching a variant of "separate but equal" to a society that has rejected such a concept for over sixty years.

[pam]

31 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

By definition, women DO need the priesthood to be "truly" equal.

Hold the Priesthood might be better wording.

[The Folk Prophet]

3 minutes ago, pam said:

Hold the Priesthood might be better wording.

Yes.

[Vort]

10 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The tension, as I see it, is that fundamentally the Church is teaching a variant of "separate but equal" to a society that has rejected such a concept for over sixty years.

I agree with the rejection on semantic grounds. Mathematically, "equal" does indeed mean "identical". I realize our common language is not defined by math, but I think it's the same with other things.

When we say that men and women are "equal", we don't mean "identical". Or maybe we mean exactly that. When we say that men and women are "equal", are we talking about average height or bench press results? If so, women are nowhere near "equal" with men. None but the most radical, stupidest of "feminists" would disagree with this. Are we talking about ability to produce living babies? Guess what -- men ain't even in the same ballpark with women. How unequal can you get?

When we say that men and women are "equal", we normally mean one or more of several things:

• They are equal in societal value -- that is, women are not intrinsically more (or less) valuable than men, but have exactly the same value.
• They are equal before the law -- that is, women are (or should be) judged exactly the same as men for crimes they commit.
• They are equally worthy of respect and dignified treatment -- that is, women should be treated with the same courtesy as men.

Clearly, these are ideals and not always actual reality. But the point is, they do indeed imply sameness. To be equal is to be the same.

So it actually makes perfect sense that so many feminists want literal sameness to define "equality". Women earn less money than men? That must be changed! Oh, but women earn less money because they make different choices? Irrelevant! We demand sameness -- in other words, equality!

Of course women are equal with men regarding intrinsic worth and importance before God. But beyond that, it requires wisdom and judgment to understand the various functions of men vs. women in a healthy society. And our society lacks wisdom and judgment, perhaps more than any other traits.

[MBKnabe]

43 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Equality is socially and politically typically understood in two ways, equality of opportunity and equality of outcome (depending on which side of the left/right scale one falls upon). However, the church teaches equality of value. Men being given the priesthood and therefrom the rights to keys, which is the right to preside, distinctly and literally creates a difference in the opportunity and outcome potential for women as related to men.

In other words, the fact that a woman can never be president of the church IS inequality. Obviously.

The real debate should be whether inequality is always bad. It's not particularly helpful for we LDS to redefine the meaning of the word equality and then claim equality in the church.

Ultimately, we have the same equality of opportunity within the church,  because the goal of this life is to become like our Heavenly Parents and we are all capable of that. Being the prophet isn't the point. Being the prophet doesn't make you more important than being a nursery leader in a small branch. We all have opportunities to serve. 

Besides, you are leaving out equal treatment, which is what I'm focused on within the church. Often women are looked at as second class citizens. That's why I am feminist.

[Vort]

4 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

Often women are looked at as second class citizens. That's why I am feminist.

Often men are looked on as second-class citizens, unworthy of their wives. This is actually quite common in the Church. Are you therefore a masculist?

[The Folk Prophet]

7 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

Ultimately, we have the same equality of opportunity within the church,  because the goal of this life is to become like our Heavenly Parents and we are all capable of that.

Sure. Person one gets to ride the train to the Californee gold rush but person two has to walk. But they both end up in Californee so...what's person two complaining about? Equal.

7 minutes ago, MBKnabe said:

Often women are looked at as second class citizens.

How so? Examples?

Edited June 26, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[Guest]

2 hours ago, MBKnabe said:

Feminists in the US don't agree on everything.  I am super against abortion. But you can't dismiss the whole movement because of one issue where we disagree. I see issues in the way we treat women as a society at large and we HAVE to fix that. Feminism, for now, is the best way to address that. And I can simultaneously fight for the rights of all women, while defending the rights of the unborn. We need feminist, equality driven, woman centered points of view on the side of the Pro-Life movement. It adds credibility to the argument against abortion.

When women kill their own off-spring, something is seriously wrong with society. Pro-choice activists use abortion as a band-aid to temporarily fix the problem of an unwanted pregnancy. What we need is to fix the system. Society has to empower women to raise their children. We need men to step up and be good fathers, so that mothers don't have to do it alone. We need paid maternity leave so that women can help financially provide for their children, and have time to bond with them. These things will end abortion. When women are supported, empowered and capable, they will not willingly kill their children. Feminism can help provide that.

This is like saying that since Mormons don't agree on everything, you can't dismiss the Church's beliefs because of what is said in General Conference.

If what you're describing as feminism is what most who carry the label of feminist believe, then where is that voice in the public square?  What organizations are out there that push for conservative values while promoting actual equality between men and women and encouraging REAL choice, not just toting the party line?

[MBKnabe]

6 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Sure. Person one gets to ride the train to the Californee gold rush but person two has to walk. But they both end up in Californee so...what's person two complaining about? Equal.

That is a false comparison. The prophet doesn't get to the celestial kingdom faster than anyone else. He's just a man who has worked hard, been worthy, and been chosen to bring us God's word. 

6 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

How so? Examples?

Here's an example:

Studies show that women get interrupted and ignored more than men (see for example this article from the journal of anthropological and Anthropological linguistics It's behind a pay wall, so if you need further evidence, feel free to peruse this summary of the article, and news articles such as this one from Forbes Magazine and this one from the New York Times as well as this article about &nbsp;female supreme court justices being interrupted.)

 I have seen this in my life at church. My husband and I teach a gospel principles. No matter how studied I am on a subject, when I teach, I am interrupted and talked over. It's not deliberate or malicious, but it is sexist and systematic. When my husband teaches, he is recognized as the authority on that lesson, and is able to direct the conversation, finish his thoughts, and answer questions. That's just one example. I have a ton more examples of how I'm treated differently than male counterparts. Sexism exists. That's not the question.