a TEST is coming

[The Folk Prophet]

In 1990 in an Ensign article by Gordon B. Hinkley (First Presidency Message) he quotes Orson F. Whitney quoting Heber C. Kimball:

“I want to say to you, my brethren, the time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys to that extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint from the face of an enemy to the people of God. Then, brethren, look out for the great sieve, for there will be a great sifting time, and many will fall; for I say unto you there is a test, a Test, a TEST coming, and who will be able to stand?” (Orson F. Whitney, Life of Heber C. Kimball, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1945, p. 446.)

What is (or are) this (or these) test (tests), do you think?

[Guest]

pornography

[NeedleinA]

33 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

What is (or are) this (or these) test (tests), do you think?

I like Pres. Hinckley's answer:

Quote

I do not know precisely the nature of that test. But I am inclined to think the time is here and that the test lies in our capacity to live the gospel rather than adopt the ways of the world.

I agree with @DoctorLemon pornography. In addition, first world problems of wealth. Wealth in the sense of the pride cycle, the "prosperity" that comes right before the "pride & wickedness".

Quote

President Brigham Young (1801–77) said: “The worst fear that I have about [members of this Church] is that they will get rich in this country, forget God and his people, wax fat, and kick themselves out of the Church and go to hell. This people will stand mobbing, robbing, poverty, and all manner of persecution, and be true. But my greater fear for them is that they cannot stand wealth; and yet they have to be tried with riches” (quoted in Preston Nibley, Brigham Young: The Man and His Work [1936], 128).

 

[SilentOne]

Organic chemistry.

[mordorbund]

4 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

Organic chemistry.

Nope. @NeuroTypical tells me organic is quackery, so don't worry about that test.

[zil]

I suppose if there's one test, we'll know it when we see it (either because we'll be walking away, or significant numbers of others will).  On the other hand, it could be lots of tests.  Or maybe there are quizzes building up to the test.  E.g. I think the last policy change regarding children of same-sex couples was a test (not that it was given only to test us, but that it also served the purpose of showing where some people's limits were in following the Lord).

[SilentOne]

Well, if it's not O-Chem, then I don't think it's necessarily one issue. Rather, I'd guess the test is whether we give more credence to the words of the Lord and his prophets or to the society around us as they increasingly call evil good and good evil.

[The Folk Prophet]

I think the test is leftist values. Which is to say, the test is "love". The true love of Christ is the key to Sainthood. The false "love" of the progressive left is the obvious correlative state that deceives. How else could we look at fellow members and fail to see who is and isn't a true Saint? Pornography and the like doesn't cut it for me. No one aware of another, or even themselves, engulfed in that chasm considers such a characteristic of Sainthood.

Edited September 18, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[mirkwood]

@MormonGator's posts.

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

@MormonGator's posts.

...are beyond your limited comprehension abilities. 

Edited September 19, 2017 by MormonGator

[mirkwood]

If you want to read about some of the possible trials coming in the Last Days, I would highly recommend reading Gerald Lund's book, The Coming Of The Lord.

[The Folk Prophet]

2 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

If you want to read about some of the possible trials coming in the Last Days, I would highly recommend reading Gerald Lund's book, The Coming Of The Lord.

Or Isaiah.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I was thinking about love too, though in a different way.  My thought is whatever the test is we can survive it if we have love, love of God and charity for our neighbor.  I know people are confused about the church's statement about the Loveloud concert, but their response makes sense to me.  It's charity.  You can show genuine charity without condoning something and that is what I think the Church is doing.  

The good news is we can pass the test if we just stay with the Church and not lean to our own understanding.  

1 Corinthians 13:2  And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 

1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the apoor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 

 

[JoCa]

2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I think the test is leftist values. Which is to say, the test is "love". The true love of Christ is the key to Sainthood. The false "love" of the progressive left is the obvious correlative state that deceives. How else could we look at fellow members and fail to see who is and isn't a true Saint? Pornography and the like doesn't cut it for me. No one aware of another, or even themselves, engulfed in that chasm considers such a characteristic of Sainthood.

I agree; I don't think it's pornography.  Pretty much anyone in the Church will tell you porn is not good and looking at porn is a sin . . . even those in it will admit it.  I think there are several other issues where what once was called sin is now not sin.

[The Folk Prophet]

41 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I was thinking about love too, though in a different way.  My thought is whatever the test is we can survive it if we have love, love of God and charity for our neighbor.  I know people are confused about the church's statement about the Loveloud concert, but their response makes sense to me.  It's charity.  You can show genuine charity without condoning something and that is what I think the Church is doing.  

The good news is we can pass the test if we just stay with the Church and not lean to our own understanding.  

1 Corinthians 13:2  And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 

1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the apoor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 

 

How are you relating this to the inability to tell the face of a Saint and an enemy? 

[Fether]

Anti-GMOs

Organic

Cage-Free

Gluten Free

[Fether]

2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I think the test is leftist values. Which is to say, the test is "love". The true love of Christ is the key to Sainthood. The false "love" of the progressive left is the obvious correlative state that deceives. How else could we look at fellow members and fail to see who is and isn't a true Saint? Pornography and the like doesn't cut it for me. No one aware of another, or even themselves, engulfed in that chasm considers such a characteristic of Sainthood.

I agree. I feel it stems from the left few on freedom of expression and  "equality" of outcome.

feminism in the vilest of forms, gender neutrality, entitlement, breaking of gender lines, recreational drugs. All are either good or gray areas. Very few see these as evil.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Fether

[The Folk Prophet]

12 minutes ago, Fether said:

Anti-GMOs

Organic

Cage-Free

Gluten Free

What on earth? 

[Fether]

3 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

What on earth? 

These are obviously evil, yet seen as good

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

22 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

How are you relating this to the inability to tell the face of a Saint and an enemy? 

In history there have been those who claim to follow God, but do so for their own reasons, like the Pharisee's, or the Priests of Noah.  

What I'm saying is that I think the way to avoid falling into that trap is to love God and love our neighbor.  We can follow the Church's example in this. 

[The Folk Prophet]

11 minutes ago, Fether said:

...obviously...

I  don't think that word means what you think it means. 

[Guest MormonGator]

14 minutes ago, Fether said:

These are obviously evil, yet seen as good

Bad science? Yes. Evil? No. 

[JoCa]

13 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

In history there have been those who claim to follow God, but do so for their own reasons, like the Pharisee's, or the Priests of Noah.  

What I'm saying is that I think the way to avoid falling into that trap is to love God and love our neighbor.  We can follow the Church's example in this. 

I totally agree.  I wonder how much we have elevated loving our neighbor above loving God and His commandments in today's world.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

1 minute ago, JoCa said:

I totally agree.  I wonder how much we have elevated loving our neighbor above loving God and His commandments in today's world.

That's not what I meant, but thanks anyway.   

[Rob Osborn]

I definitely see it as the left wing movement. Just walking down the street one may never know who is on the right or the left. Its rather scary that SLC itself is now run by left wing politics. The church, with heavy conservative right wing views, is surrounded by people and politics ramping up left wing views in their face. the church is definitely being tested and some are choosing to leave it because the voice and reason of secularism from the left more coincides with the lifestyle of their fallen natures. 

Abortion, same sex marriage, legalizatiin of drugs, gun control, feminism, socialism, big controlling government, equality, gender neutrality, government ran and controlled healthcare, separation of church and state, atheism, are all principles the left promotes. The real trigger behind this though is Satan himself- the father of lies.

Almost every LDS doctrine as contained in the Proclamation is under direct attack from the left.

If the left were to make their own family proclamation it would write exactly the opposite. And yet, there are supposedly faithful LDS who side with the left. Im baffled, honestly baffled that someone would fain believe themselves to be faithful LDS who support everything opposite our church believes in.