This is why people leave

[anatess2]

20 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I often feel this way about being the breadwinner.  I honestly think it's part of our DNA.  We feel an innate need to be the provider.  This is, of course, sexist.  But so what?  I want to provide for my family and I feel very badly if I cannot perform that role.

This, of course, is not sexist.  The day men can carry the child in his belly and feed him out of his breasts is the day I won't expect men to go out and provide for us and put women and children first on the boats.  Modern Feminism is cancer.

Edited December 20, 2017 by anatess2

[mordorbund]

6 hours ago, Shath said:

Christ fed people not just for one day, not just for a year, but for forty years.

Except, you know, when he didn't.

[Shath]

3 hours ago, estradling75 said:

I see you avoided the question... so I will repeat it.

 

You give a person a fish he eats today but tomorrow he starves because you were busy helping someone else and did not get to him... 

You teach a person to fish today and he eats today, tomorrow and forever while you go else where to help others...

Of these two examples which one is truly helping?  Which one of those is what you think Christ would have us do?

 

As for Christ he had powers that we do not... he overcame what we could not.  There is a huge difference in what he can/did do and what we can do to help others

You give a person a fish today.  The second is used by evil people in a flawed way.  They think they don't have to give anything and that's normally their excuse.  Some of them try to use it to say they this is why they don't give help to disabled.  A disabled person may not have the ability to fish, but you insist that this is what you need to do.

You give a person a fish today, tomorrow and when they need to eat.  That is charity.  You try teaching someone who will never be able to fish to fish, even if they understand it, it is stupid.  It's giving an excuse of why you don't give them a fish in the first place. 

If Jesus did this, we would all go to hell.  I am glad he had charity and gave us what we could not get.  I have seen a LOT of evil from Mormons.  I love the Book of Mormon, but a lot of Mormons don't live it.  I am beginning to see why Mormons do a lot Of evil things.  I don't understand why though.  Why don't they live their religion?

I want to join the religion taught in the Book of Mormon.  I cannot see it in the members of the Mormon church.  It is confusing.

[estradling75]

1 minute ago, Shath said:

You give a person a fish today.  The second is used by evil people in a flawed way.  They think they don't have to give anything and that's normally their excuse.  Some of them try to use it to say they this is why they don't give help to disabled.  A disabled person may not have the ability to fish, but you insist that this is what you need to do.

You give a person a fish today, tomorrow and when they need to eat.  That is charity.  You try teaching someone who will never be able to fish to fish, even if they understand it, it is stupid.  It's giving an excuse of why you don't give them a fish in the first place. 

If Jesus did this, we would all go to hell.  I am glad he had charity and gave us what we could not get.  I have seen a LOT of evil from Mormons.  I love the Book of Mormon, but a lot of Mormons don't live it.  I am beginning to see why Mormons do a lot Of evil things.  I don't understand why though.  Why don't they live their religion?

I want to join the religion taught in the Book of Mormon.  I cannot see it in the members of the Mormon church.  It is confusing.

Again you failed to answer the question.  And you justify your end run around by adding things that were not stated...  so let me repeat and bold the part you are missing

You give a person a fish he eats today but tomorrow he starves because you were busy helping someone else and did not get to him... 

You teach a person to fish today and he eats today, tomorrow and forever while you go else where to help others...

Of these two examples which one is truly helping?  Which one of those is what you think Christ would have us do?

[Shath]

1 minute ago, estradling75 said:

Again you failed to answer the question.  And you justify your end run around by adding things that were not stated...  so let me repeat and bold the part you are missing

You give a person a fish he eats today but tomorrow he starves because you were busy helping someone else and did not get to him... 

You teach a person to fish today and he eats today, tomorrow and forever while you go else where to help others...

Of these two examples which one is truly helping?  Which one of those is what you think Christ would have us do?

Jesus didn't stop helping others because he helped me.  You are using a flawed analogy.  I am NOT a Mormon, I came to learn about Mormons.  It is becoming clear why Mormons are mean to me in school though.  They do not understand basic charity. They teach how to be evil to others instead.

Is this how Mormons think to convert people?  By trying to redefine ideas like what charity is?

I came to try to find any reason to be a Mormon.  Instead, I am finding reinforcement of my worst fears about Mormons.  I am actually sad about this.

[Vort]

19 hours ago, Shath said:

But charity is not to give and ask, it is only to give.

As the Book of Mormon teaches, "charity is the pure love of Christ". Are you suggesting that Christ asks nothing of us?

[Vort]

9 minutes ago, Shath said:

Mormons...do not understand basic charity. They teach how to be evil to others instead.

Busted. Dang. Now how will we further our nefarious schemes?

[estradling75]

7 minutes ago, Shath said:

Jesus didn't stop helping others because he helped me.  You are using a flawed analogy.  I am NOT a Mormon, I came to learn about Mormons.  It is becoming clear why Mormons are mean to me in school though.  They do not understand basic charity. They teach how to be evil to others instead.

Is this how Mormons think to convert people?  By trying to redefine ideas like what charity is?

I came to try to find any reason to be a Mormon.  Instead, I am finding reinforcement of my worst fears about Mormons.  I am actually sad about this.

I am not Christ you are not Christ...  But you seem to think you are...  so lead by example.... there are hundreds of thousands of people out there needing your help right now @Shath so you must help them all... why are you wasting your time here... and don't forget you must get to them all every single day.  When you single handed solve the problem of the poor then you can come back to complain to us.  

Now if you want to complain that I am making an unrealistic demand of you... then you know exactly what I am talking about

[anatess2]

18 minutes ago, Shath said:

Jesus didn't stop helping others because he helped me.  You are using a flawed analogy.  I am NOT a Mormon, I came to learn about Mormons.  It is becoming clear why Mormons are mean to me in school though.  They do not understand basic charity. They teach how to be evil to others instead.

Is this how Mormons think to convert people?  By trying to redefine ideas like what charity is?

I came to try to find any reason to be a Mormon.  Instead, I am finding reinforcement of my worst fears about Mormons.  I am actually sad about this.

Wait, what?

Are you saying that if I don't give you fish I'm evil?  WHAT??? 

Edited December 20, 2017 by anatess2

[omegaseamaster75]

31 minutes ago, Shath said:

You give a person a fish today, tomorrow and when they need to eat.  That is charity.  You try teaching someone who will never be able to fish to fish, even if they understand it, it is stupid.  It's giving an excuse of why you don't give them a fish in the first place. 

This is your logic train? Take the exception and broadly apply it to the "mormon" definition of charity.  

 

 

[anatess2]

8 hours ago, Shath said:

Christ fed people not just for one day, not just for a year, but for forty years. 

I thought he died when he was only 32 years old. 

 

8 hours ago, Shath said:

He went to the poor, the disabled, the helpless.

This is what he did - he saw a blind man.  He made him see.  He saw a leper, he healed him.  Etc.  So, basically, he didn't just give those guys a fish.  He made it so they can fish.

 

8 hours ago, Shath said:

It doesn't matter if you try to teach a man who can't fish to fish...he still can't fish.  Charity isn't normally there to help those who can help themselves, but those who cannot. 

Except that... it is not our place to judge people as incapable of fishing.  As Christ said to Peter who thought he couldn't walk on water... Have faith.  There is no limit to Charity - you don't say, "This person does not need charity".  Charity is NOT ONLY giving some THING.  You may think - that person has so much money he doesn't need Charity.  You would be wrong, 100% of the time. 

God commands us to Love one Another.  He did not say Love only those who need Loving.  Charity is the pure Love of Christ.  Charity is to bring people to JOY.  Joy is found in Christ.  Charity, therefore, is to bring others one step closer to Christ.  If giving him a fish brings him one step closer to Christ, then you give him a fish.  But if giving him a fish makes it harder for him to take that step closer to Christ, then you don't give him a fish. 

And now is the time for me to be blunt.  Now I understand why you are having a hard time with Mormons.  You are bigoted against them.  That is not on Mormons.  That's on you.

Edited December 20, 2017 by anatess2

[Bad Karma]

 

On 12/17/2017 at 9:27 AM, dahlia said:

So, my name (misspelled) showed up in the bulletin for the 3rd time to help clean the church. I did it the first time, but not the 2nd. As it turns out, the brother in charge of cleaning schedules was standing in the foyer. To be polite, I told him I wasn't going to come. He asked me, "Can you explain?"  What? OK, fine. I did it once. That's my commitment. I have to take an arthritis med before and after I do that assignment and I just don't feel like bringing on pain in order to clean the church. 

I walk toward the door, and I'm so hot I turn around and go back. "I've already done it once, "I repeated. Then he says he's done it four times. I am supposed to be shamed into compliance? Did he expect me just to roll over and say I'll show up? I'm 64. I don't need to explain myself to some white man about why I do or don't do something. 

No one told me I'd have to be a maid to the Church when I joined. And people wonder why folks become less active.

 

Was a really good point, but then you went on about a white man, then you lost me. I'm at a loss as to why the man being WHITE had anything to do with it. Merry Christmas, never the less. 

[Bad Karma]

1 hour ago, Shath said:

Jesus didn't stop helping others because he helped me.  You are using a flawed analogy.  I am NOT a Mormon, I came to learn about Mormons.  It is becoming clear why Mormons are mean to me in school though.  They do not understand basic charity. They teach how to be evil to others instead.

Is this how Mormons think to convert people?  By trying to redefine ideas like what charity is?

I came to try to find any reason to be a Mormon.  Instead, I am finding reinforcement of my worst fears about Mormons.  I am actually sad about this.

Actually, I think mormons are mean to you because you act like a jerk.  You have an US -versus- YOU attitude, so, that is what you've got, US - v- YOU.  You attack our concept of charity while you grab your entitlement mentality behind you.  Yeah, you say you're not a Mormon, we get that, very clearly. 

 

1 hour ago, Shath said:

Is this how Mormons think to convert people?  By trying to redefine ideas like what charity is?

NO, we EXPECT YOU TO SERVE THE LORD in some capacity. Here's some food. Also, here's a list of names of people we'd like you to pray for, or we'd like you to clean the church, or we'd like you to give food to the poor in the Bishop's store house. EVERYONE can do SOMETHING. Let your gladness for the blessings you have received motivate you to serve the lord. It's SIMPLE. 

1 hour ago, Shath said:

I came to try to find any reason to be a Mormon.  Instead, I am finding reinforcement of my worst fears about Mormons.  I am actually sad about this.

What's a load horsepucky, you came here to fight, and fighting with us is what you've been doing. You call yourself a CHRISTIAN? Oh, MY FOOT!  We're reinforcing your worst fears? Oh boy,  seriously? You don't even TRY to hide that you're anti-LDS.  As of RIGHT NOW, what is it that you want?

1 hour ago, Shath said:

If Jesus did this, we would all go to hell.  I am glad he had charity and gave us what we could not get.  I have seen a LOT of evil from Mormons.  I love the Book of Mormon, but a lot of Mormons don't live it.  I am beginning to see why Mormons do a lot Of evil things.  I don't understand why though.  Why don't they live their religion?

 

I love the Bible, however, I THINK :"The problem with Christianity is that it's full of Christians". I don't see too many Christ like Christians, I see a lot of people claim, Christian, then do what you're doing.  You say you see evil? I say you see reaction to your negative attitude. We're Mormons, not sissies, when you belt us across the face, expect one right back. I see lots of Christians act like thugs, why do Christians do evil things?  

. 

You want to fight? Cool, go stand in a mirror and yell at yourself.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Bad Karma

[prisonchaplain]

Two thoughts: People leave churches for reasons like this all the time. Perceived racism and on-going disrespect would drive most Evangelicals to the next  is church down the road. Of course LDS don't have that option, so they may go inactive. Second, it is infuriating when Blacks are  assumed to be poor and uneducated, when Asians are assumed to speak broken English and be math geniuses. Still,  we must make preliminary assessments as we go through life, and most of our errors are not born out of evil, hate, or full on racism. 

[anatess2]

17 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

when Asians are assumed to speak broken English and be math geniuses.

I apologize.  It's my fault.  I'm Asian, speak broken English (thank heavens for the backspace key), and is a math genius (or rather, I've been trying to be as good as my Dad who is the REAL math genius).

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by anatess2

[Guest MormonGator]

17 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Two thoughts: People leave churches for reasons like this all the time. Perceived racism and on-going disrespect would drive most Evangelicals to the next  is church down the road. Of course LDS don't have that option, so they may go inactive. Second, it is infuriating when Blacks are  assumed to be poor and uneducated, when Asians are assumed to speak broken English and be math geniuses. Still,  we must make preliminary assessments as we go through life, and most of our errors are not born out of evil, hate, or full on racism. 

@prisonchaplain, this is a perfect post. 
 

 

[Guest]

17 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Two thoughts: People leave churches for reasons like this all the time. Perceived racism and on-going disrespect would drive most Evangelicals to the next  is church down the road. Of course LDS don't have that option, so they may go inactive. Second, it is infuriating when Blacks are  assumed to be poor and uneducated, when Asians are assumed to speak broken English and be math geniuses. Still,  we must make preliminary assessments as we go through life, and most of our errors are not born out of evil, hate, or full on racism. 

Ya know, it's not my fault that I'm a math genius.  And it isn't my fault that my voice and name don't match my face.  I think I'll try to learn a broken English Asian accent.  That might help people who only know me over the phone.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Guest

[anatess2]

4 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Ya know, it's not my fault that I'm a math genius.  And it isn't my fault that my voice and name don't match my face.  I think I'll try to learn a broken English Asian accent.  That might help people who only know me over the phone.

The L's and the R's is where it all is.  

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by anatess2

[Guest]

Start listening at 2:10.  Note the switch at around 2:40.

Warning!  Some rough language.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Guest

[prisonchaplain]

I still remember a 1992 conversation I had with an  evangelical professor. She found out I was going to theological graduate school and asked me where. I said I felt God leading me to the Assemblies of God school. She looked dumbfounded and asked, "But, what about Swaggart?" I responded that he left the fellowship 5  years earlier and what did that have to do with my decision anyway? She gave me a look that said: It is your career!  I thought: No, it is my calling. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by prisonchaplain

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I still remember a 1992 conversation I had with an  evangelical professor. She found out I was going to theological graduate school and asked me where. I said I felt God leading me to the Assemblies of God school. She looked dumbfounded and asked, "But, what about Swaggart?" I responded that he left the fellowship 5  years earlier and what did that have to do with my decision anyway? She gave me a look that said: It is your career!  I thought: No, it is my calling. 

That might make more sense in this other thread.

 

[NeuroTypical]

My cousin worked at a hotel call center years ago.  He says his team would have accent challenges to break up the boredom -they'd talk to the next ten callers in a Texas accent, or refined New England, or hillbilly stereotype.  

I watched him do "Texas cattle rancher" when he called as a customer to get some issue resolved.  It was weird - there he was standing in front of me, but when I heard him talk I saw him holding his 10 gallon hat, having just come in from his morning mosey.

[zil]

20 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

My cousin worked at a hotel call center years ago.  He says his team would have accent challenges to break up the boredom -they'd talk to the next ten callers in a Texas accent, or refined New England, or hillbilly stereotype.  

I watched him do "Texas cattle rancher" when he called as a customer to get some issue resolved.  It was weird - there he was standing in front of me, but when I heard him talk I saw him holding his 10 gallon hat, having just come in from his morning mosey.

One of my co-workers in Moscow had been a DJ.  His "classical music" voice was downright disturbing to watch.  (It would have fit perfectly on the classical music radio station, but in person, it was disturbing.)

Edited December 22, 2017 by zil

[NeuroTypical]

Speaking of DJs, This one is a tragic reminder of how much meth destroys you:

 

[Vort]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Ya know, it's not my fault that I'm a math genius.  And it isn't my fault that my voice and name don't match my face.  I think I'll try to learn a broken English Asian accent.  That might help people who only know me over the phone.