Kids baptized in 2 churches

[Matthias7]

Hey Everyone,

 

I haven't been able to find anything on this. My wife is not LDS and I am. Of course we both want the kids baptized in our respective churches.  Since they will likely be baptized in both, I was told by a friend that if they get baptized into her church after they've been baptized in mine it will nullify the LDS baptism. I can see how this might work for an adult leaving the LDS church and being baptized in another, but kids wanting to be baptized in both their parents churches?  Will the LDS one be nullified?  Any thoughts?  I've looked on fairmormon and lds.org as well as reading D&C 76 several times. I'm still not sure. 

Thanks for any help

 

 

[NeuroTypical]

Well, what gets you removed from the rolls of the church, is action from a priesthood leader with stewardship over the matter.  You should probably check with your Bishop/Branch Pres to see what he says.  We tend to not be in a big hurry to excommunicate people and remove the blessings of baptism, it tends to happen after counseling with folks, in this case the parents.  A part-member family trying to do right in raising their kids doesn't exactly sound like unrepentant sin.  

Approaching this issue before scheduling the baptism is a good idea.  You'll need both churches to be on board with whatever you decide.

We had a lady who left our church, and actually became a pastor in another church.  The bishop, for reasons that seemed good to him, decided to not take any immediate action.  The lady later had her name removed.  

God bless you as you folks raise your kids!  Let us know what you find out.

Edited January 31, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[Anddenex]

5 hours ago, Matthias7 said:

Hey Everyone,

I haven't been able to find anything on this. My wife is not LDS and I am. Of course we both want the kids baptized in our respective churches.  Since they will likely be baptized in both, I was told by a friend that if they get baptized into her church after they've been baptized in mine it will nullify the LDS baptism. I can see how this might work for an adult leaving the LDS church and being baptized in another, but kids wanting to be baptized in both their parents churches?  Will the LDS one be nullified?  Any thoughts?  I've looked on fairmormon and lds.org as well as reading D&C 76 several times. I'm still not sure. 

Thanks for any help

First, being baptized in another church doesn't nullify a LDS baptism; although, it does create the notion of "serving two masters." So as in @NeuroTypical example, the individual will have to come to a decision at some point as to which they follow. Even with adults our baptism is not nullified once performed by proper priesthood authority. Let me clarify, if a person is baptized LDS, and then leaves the LDS Church and is baptized in another church, and then repents and comes back into full fellowship with the saints will they need to get baptized again? No.

There are so many possible varieties to this scenario that speaking with the bishop/stake president who currently presides in your area would be wise counsel.  Here are just a few:

1) Person leaves LDS faith, baptized in another religion, and then preaches against the LDS faith (anti-Mormon)
2) Person is newly baptized, for some unknown reason leaves the faith, and is baptized in another faith believing this religion suits them better
3) Child is baptized LDS, parents leave the church, and the whole family is baptized in another church (children have a vague memory of their baptism in the LDS faith)

None of these nullify the baptisms taken place. The first example is the only one with potential of nullifying as they could come under disciplinary council. Yet, if we are using the following definition of nullify, simply meaning it nullifies the affect of remission of sins, then yes if we choose to be baptized in a different faith and do not follow the teachings of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, then we indeed have chosen to nullify baptismal rewards. This is the same however for members who have chosen to not keep their covenants. So by our choosing we can nullify the rewards of baptism even if we aren't baptized in another religion.

[Jane_Doe]

6 hours ago, Matthias7 said:

Hey Everyone,

I haven't been able to find anything on this. My wife is not LDS and I am. Of course we both want the kids baptized in our respective churches.  Since they will likely be baptized in both, I was told by a friend that if they get baptized into her church after they've been baptized in mine it will nullify the LDS baptism. I can see how this might work for an adult leaving the LDS church and being baptized in another, but kids wanting to be baptized in both their parents churches?  Will the LDS one be nullified?  Any thoughts?  I've looked on fairmormon and lds.org as well as reading D&C 76 several times. I'm still not sure. 

Thanks for any help

A second baptism doesn't "nullifies" baptism in any faith, so that's not an issue at all.      Different faiths do have different views on what being baptized entails and what it means.  

For LDS: baptism is a person making a covenant with God, to follow Him.  They are washed clean of their past sins and join His Church (the LDS Church).  A person being baptized must believe and desire this, and the baptism must be done via immersion by one who hold His priesthood.  All other non-LDS baptisms don't have this authority, and hence can't make (or break) this baptismal covenant.  Still, even if it doesn't have any authority, a non-LDS baptism is something to be admired in that person is committing themselves to Christ and celebrating it.  Like my husband (who's Evangelical) speaks very highly of his baptism and I consider it to be one of the moments that makes him such a great person.

For Evangelicals: (Evangelicals are a varied camp of beliefs, so I'm just going to cover the most common beliefs as I understand them) -- Evangelicals also believe a person being baptized must believe and desire desire, and the baptism must be done via immersion.  Baptism isn't a covenant, but about the baptized person showing their devotion to Christ and how He saved them.  If that church believes in the "priesthood of all believers", then they probably believe anyone can be the baptizer- or maybe anyone of Trinitarian belief (again, depends on the specific-belief system).   Evangelicals also frequently seeing joining a church as different than being baptized (joining a church= having membership and voting rights at your local congregation, baptism = being baptized unto Christ, not tied to a specific congregation).  

Again, no one believes anything about one baptism nullifying the other. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[Just_A_Guy]

I have a *slightly* different take on this:

Administratively, baptism in another church absolutely will not nullify/expunge the record of an LDS baptism.

However—LDS baptism is a covenant with Jesus that entails specific obligations to the rest of the Church membership, as Alma’s sermon at the Waters of Mormon demonstrates.  Baptism in another congregation, while maybe not “sinful” per se, generally represents a step away from the covenants implicit in the LDS baptism; and when we step away from the covenants, we can’t help but jeopardize the spiritual benefits pertaining thereto.

I doubt anyone’s going to deliberately, consciously “punish” your child for that, and certainly individual circumstances may always justify exceptions to general rules.  But if your goal is for your child to grow up exclusively (or even primarily) loyal to the LDS tradition—I would just bear in mind the possibility that concurrent baptism in some other denomination may not be particularly helpful towards that goal.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[NightSG]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

However—LDS baptism is a covenant with Jesus that entails specific obligations to the rest of the Church membership, as Alma’s sermon at the Waters of Mormon demonstrates.

Going to have to nitpick this one; Mosiah 18:8 could be read as only an obligation to others of their own faith, but 18:9 doesn't appear to restrict applicability.  "Those that mourn" and "those in need of comfort" would certainly appear to apply to everyone.  Further, in 18:9 also comes the obligation to "stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death" which certainly doesn't look like "witness only to each other and keep quiet around the infidels."

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Baptism in another congregation, while maybe not “sinful” per se, generally represents a step away from the covenants implicit in the LDS baptism; and when we step away from the covenants, we can’t help but jeopardize the spiritual benefits pertaining thereto.

How old are the kids?  Aside from Methodists, many others won't baptize before 12-13 anyway.  (And while Methodists will do infant baptism, confirmation classes generally start at 11 for confirmation at 12.)

[Jane_Doe]

9 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

 But if your goal is for your child to grow up exclusively (or even primarily) loyal to the LDS tradition—I would just bear in mind the possibility that concurrent baptism in some other denomination may not be particularly helpful towards that goal.

The OP stated in a earlier thread that his wife left the church, is now anti, and have the kids attend her fundamentalist Evangelical church part time.  

[anatess2]

19 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

The OP stated in a earlier thread that his wife left the church, is now anti, and have the kids attend her fundamentalist Evangelical church part time.  

Getting baptized in 2 different churches is like serving 2 masters - baptism is a covenant that one fulfills.  Being baptized in 2 churches makes it difficult to fulfill one or both of the covenants.

If the wife insists on raising the kids Evangelical and getting them baptized then the best option is to have the kids baptized at the Evangelical church, continue to take them to the LDS Church whenever possible and continue to teach them the restored gospel (unless the wife objects) and have them decide when they become adults if they want to be baptized in the LDS church.  If the wife objects to the children being taught LDS doctrine then I suggest the teaching be focused on loving God and diligently and humbly and honestly seeking the truth of God's kingdom.

Just my 2 cents.

[Jane_Doe]

22 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Getting baptized in 2 different churches is like serving 2 masters - baptism is a covenant that one fulfills.  Being baptized in 2 churches makes it difficult to fulfill one or both of the covenants.

If the wife insists on raising the kids Evangelical and getting them baptized then the best option is to have the kids baptized at the Evangelical church, continue to take them to the LDS Church whenever possible and continue to teach them the restored gospel (unless the wife objects) and have them decide when they become adults if they want to be baptized in the LDS church.  If the wife objects to the children being taught LDS doctrine then I suggest the teaching be focused on loving God and diligently and humbly and honestly seeking the truth of God's kingdom.

Just my 2 cents.

There are MANY complications with raising kids when the parents are of two different faiths.  Things are even more complicated when one is anti other other's faith, or mental illness is involved.  It's something that really needs a case-by-case approach.  

[CV75]

21 hours ago, Matthias7 said:

Hey Everyone,

I haven't been able to find anything on this. My wife is not LDS and I am. Of course we both want the kids baptized in our respective churches.  Since they will likely be baptized in both, I was told by a friend that if they get baptized into her church after they've been baptized in mine it will nullify the LDS baptism. I can see how this might work for an adult leaving the LDS church and being baptized in another, but kids wanting to be baptized in both their parents churches?  Will the LDS one be nullified?  Any thoughts?  I've looked on fairmormon and lds.org as well as reading D&C 76 several times. I'm still not sure. 

Thanks for any help

Your bishop should be able to answer this.

[Matthias7]

Thanks for all the input so far. As Jane_Doe mentioned it is far more complicated than I could have imagined- hence my turning to this forum for help. And it has helped a lot so far. 

 The kids are 3 and 7. We have two older kids that were baptized in the LDS Church already, but the oldest has since been baptized in my wife's church as well. It's a super tough situation.  I have a meeting with my Bishop this Sunday  

As a side note I went to my wife's church last Sunday  her pastor was very nice  I got to see how they baptize there    

 

[NightSG]

17 minutes ago, Matthias7 said:

As a side note I went to my wife's church last Sunday  her pastor was very nice  I got to see how they baptize there    

How long do they have to pre-soak Mormons?

[Maureen]

22 minutes ago, Matthias7 said:

Thanks for all the input so far. As Jane_Doe mentioned it is far more complicated than I could have imagined- hence my turning to this forum for help. And it has helped a lot so far. 

 The kids are 3 and 7. We have two older kids that were baptized in the LDS Church already, but the oldest has since been baptized in my wife's church as well. It's a super tough situation.  I have a meeting with my Bishop this Sunday  

As a side note I went to my wife's church last Sunday  her pastor was very nice  I got to see how they baptize there    

 

@Matthias7, I'm not sure but I think most Evangelical (particularly Pentecostal) churches will baptize an individual when that individual themselves requests it. Baptism is a demonstration of faith for many denominations. A parent usually can't get a child baptized unless the child wishes to be baptized. I'm assuming your oldest child requested baptism themselves. I would ask your wife's pastor how his church practices baptism, what are the requirements for baptism.

M.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Maureen

[Jane_Doe]

42 minutes ago, Matthias7 said:

Thanks for all the input so far. As Jane_Doe mentioned it is far more complicated than I could have imagined- hence my turning to this forum for help. And it has helped a lot so far. 

 The kids are 3 and 7. We have two older kids that were baptized in the LDS Church already, but the oldest has since been baptized in my wife's church as well. It's a super tough situation.  I have a meeting with my Bishop this Sunday  

As a side note I went to my wife's church last Sunday  her pastor was very nice  I got to see how they baptize there    

 

Seeking the bishop's counsel is a very wise move.  

21 minutes ago, Maureen said:

@Matthias7, I'm not sure but I think most Evangelical (particularly Pentecostal) churches will baptize an individual when that individual themselves requests it. Baptism is a demonstration of faith for many denominations. A parent usually can't get a child baptized unless the child wishes to be baptized. I'm assuming your oldest child requested baptism themselves. I would ask your wife's pastor how his church practices baptism, what are the requirements for baptism.

M.

A person must request, but a parent can prompt ("do you want to be baptized, Johny?").  This is true of all faiths where the baptizee has a say in things.  

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, NightSG said:

How long do they have to pre-soak Mormons?

They told me my sins were of a magnitude great enough, that they had to hold me under for a while.  Longest 3 minutes of my life.

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

They told me my sins were of a magnitude great enough, that they had to hold me under for a while.  Longest 3 minutes of my life.

Three minutes under water without oxygen surely has an impact on your cognitive abilities. Wow, that explains a lot of your posts. 

[prisonchaplain]

The OP presents a difficult situation. So many questions and variables could determine the ultimate decision. The short answer is that at some point in the child's life only one of those baptisms will prevail. If the other church is one that practices "believer's baptism" (meaning that the baptism is restricted to those who have already committed their lives to Jesus), then I'd suggest holding off on that baptism. Such churches do not believe that salvation water baptism is required for salvation, and so long as the child has not clearly decided which faith group to dedicate to, it does seem that undergoing believer's baptism would be something of a half-hearted work.  On the other hand, if the other church holds to sacramental baptism, that is seen as part and parcel of the salvation experience, then, imho, a difficult conversation needs to take place. Promising to dedicate a child to one church, while having him/her attending another "equally," would seem to make that promise half-hearted. Yet, the church expects it of their members. My own inclination would be to wait until the child is old enough to say, "I want this." A child saying I want both is expressing love and respect for parents, more than to a particular faith. I love and respect the good friends I've made here, but we all know it would be impossible to be a dedicated Assemblies of God Mormon.

Edited February 2, 2018 by prisonchaplain

[Jane_Doe]

1 minute ago, prisonchaplain said:

The OP presents a difficult situation. So many questions and variables could determine the ultimate decision. The short answer is that at some point in the child's life only one of those baptisms will prevail. If the other church is one that practices "believer's baptism" (meaning that the baptism is restricted to those who have already committed their lives to Jesus), then I'd suggest holding off on that baptism. Such churches do not believe that salvation is required for salvation, and so long as the child has not clearly decided which faith group to dedicate to, it does seem that undergoing believer's baptism would be something of a half-hearted work.  On the other hand, if the other church holds to sacramental baptism, that is seen as part and parcel of the salvation experience, then, imho, a difficult conversation needs to take place. Promising to dedicate a child to one church, while having him/her attending another "equally," would seem to make that promise half-hearted. Yet, the church expects it of their members. My own inclination would be to wait until the child is old enough to say, "I want this." A child saying I want both is expressing love and respect for parents, more than to a particular faith. I love and respect the good friends I've made here, but we all know it would be impossible to be a dedicated Assemblies of God Mormon.

The 7 y.o. in question was baptized at the Evangelical church last week.  We LDS don't baptize till 8 at earliest, and there can be...   *Jane struggles to think of words here*...  "Daddy, my friend got baptized last week and it was awesome, I want to be baptized too!".  

[prisonchaplain]

I will share my own experience--which is different, but perhaps similar. I started attending church at 10, though my parents did not go. They'd had me baptized as an infant, in grandma's church. I did not want to disrespect my parents' decision, but I came to believe that I should be baptized as a believer. Nevertheless, I waited. At age 16 my father broached the subject with me, and said he would be proud to go to church and see me get baptized. So, in an ideal world, the child will reach an age at which both parents can assure him/her that whatever decision gets made will be honored and respected, without hard feelings. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by prisonchaplain

[NightSG]

On 2/1/2018 at 4:36 PM, prisonchaplain said:

The short answer is that at some point in the child's life only one of those baptisms will prevail.

I think the phrasing you're looking for is "not more than one of those baptisms will prevail."  

Quote

If the other church is one that practices "believer's baptism"

I want to find a church that practices disbeliever's baptism.  Instead of a last minute choir rehearsal on Sunday morning, it could have SWAT training refreshers to go raid the houses of folks who don't go to church, drag them in and dunk them.

Edited February 3, 2018 by NightSG

[Maureen]

6 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

...Such churches do not believe that salvation is required for salvation, and so long as the child has not clearly decided which faith group to dedicate to, it does seem that undergoing believer's baptism would be something of a half-hearted work...

Do you mean "do not believe that baptism is required for salvation"? ?

M.

[prisonchaplain]

Thanks @Maureen. I fixed it. One of my many faults is that I think faster than I type.